chatanga1

So glad to see that. I have felt this for many moons, this is one of the main reasons we lost Nankana Sahib. Lol. I hope that is not your warmth speaking.

there is a difference between reading and understanding. Do you understand all the Gurbani or Sikh literature you read Manbir Singh Ji? Did you ask him why if Akal Takht has requested no-one to talk against DG, why he felt he was above this?

I would like to make an appeal to all those who engage in the movement against Prof Darshan Singh and his like, to have a camcorder or several if possible to record any disturbances, fights etc, as this will really show what actually happens to people who think of them as the aggressors. Also the anti-sikh lobby wont be able to make political mileage out of it either, when they can be confronted with such evidence.

i would be surprised if any sikh were to never admit this. even the most ardent jatts i know (my relatives) admit that their past behaviour has turned the dalits against us.

some very valid points made. This would have been too great an injustice (the killing of Bir Singh and his followers in Darbar Sahib) that it would have been so easily forgotten by Sikhs and non-Sikhs whereas other examples of "Mazbhi" bravery are well chronicled and remembered in Sikh history. This particular episode would have had far reaching consequences in these days never mind those days. If you were a Mazbhi would you fight under those who had killed so many your people? Its unlikely that any person would, Mazbhi or not. Mazbhi Sikhan di Itihaas makes no recollection of any event. I was quite unsure what to make of this, but feel now that it is just too fanciful to be true. Other issue on the same lines is that put forward by Ramgarhias, that Sardar Jassa Singh was thrown out of Panth becuase the other Misls were jealous/afraid of his power, whereas the issue was over the murder of a female child. But even this was a Jat misl in origin ( Misl Sangnian).

http://punjabpanorama.blogspot.com/2009/06/dalits-and-emancipatory-sikh-religion.html

The ‘dalit reinterpretation’ of the eighteenth century argues in detail how the rising power of Bir Singh Ranghreta who had become an influential commander was put a stop to by the treachery of the Jatt commanders. According to Naranjan Arfi the Sikhs had succeeded in establishing their independence by early 1760s and some of the commanders aspired for their individual rules in different parts, which Bir Singh was opposed to. Bir Singh insisted following Guru’s injunction that the power shall lie in the Panth (the Khalsa collectivity). Charat Singh, father of Ranjit Singh and Baba Aala Singh, founder of Patiala State, hatched a conspiracy to invite Bir Singh from Peshawar to Amritsar, treacherously disarmed Bir Singh’s soldiers that they should not pay obeisance at the Darbar Sahib (Golden Temple) with arms and then slaughtering them inside the sacred place in batches of five in which they were advised to move. They also wounded Bir Singh in such a way that taken as dead, his body was put in a wooden box and thrown into river Beas. Thereafter Mazbhis were not allowed any commanding position but their military prowess was used under different Misals as subordinates.

jattmafia. that word makes me laugh. did kabbadi originate in panjab?

i thought Bhoop in this caswe meant King, not the ministers name. brilliant article tho.

where is it?

heard of the saying "his bark is worser than bite"?

Tony, I think there are youtube vids where the anti DG lot had their misconceptions cleard(whether they chose to accpet it or not i dont know) but the challenge for debate has gone on long enough as singh2 on this forum has pointed out repeatedly, where the anti dg lot just fail to appear. Thes best thing to doi s to do parchaar of DG without beginning with a "ragi doesnt know what he's on about..." vibe. I have a few leaflets of DG that i make sure are always available on our gurdwara literature stand. And give out cds of DG parchaar. We all need to do this cos if the anti DG get in first then they gonna confuse a lot of people. and that aint a good thing.

very good points made shaheediyan ji.

Traditional accounts mention that one of the deities among the 360 destroyed when the place was stormed, was that of Saturn; another was of the Moon and yet another was one called Allah. That shows that in the Kaaba the Arabs worshipped the nine planets in pre-Islamic days. In India the practice of ‘Navagraha’ puja, that is worship of the nine planets, is still in vogue. The indians knew of the existence of 9 planets for centuries but the western world through science didnt discover all the 9th planet till i think the 1960s. I wonder why the indians didnt already announce that there are 9 planets and help those poor astronmers out who worked tirelessly to make this discovery. Or said something like " we knew that ages ago when the excited astronmers made thier announcement to the world..."

the committees prob dont like them sleeoing and eating there for free. ive seen it at our own gurdwara. committee members complaining if freshies come in to eat langar. Its not right.

yeah, these two always stay in my mind, cos i'm hopeless at both of them.(and not much better at the others incase you're wondering.)

Tark(debate) Vidya and Njaj(reasoning) are another 2.

Do the Hindus know this? Can you expand on what qualities monkeys have? What tail did Hanuman use to burn Lanka, if he was actually human? Ganesha has half a tusk, as he according to the scriptures broke one to write with. Which tusks would these have been if Ganesha was human? The hindu scriptures say that the head that was given to Ganesha was of Airapat, as he was cursed to lose his head in a jooni. Was airapat human as well?

Did the people who acquired these powers be able to extend their tails? That would be the true test if it really worked!

they could be being used rightnow in a war somewhere in the galaxy, far far away. Why would they only have to be used on earth?

i have heard that Guru Ji blessed Babur with 10 or maybe 9 successors mirroreing that of Gurgaddi. where are these pangtian from ? sounds like Panth Parkash. I would think that it says whoever came to Guru's door, would be saved whereas those who didnt would be seized by Babur. Could this Babur and his descendants be a metaphor for Yamdoot?

i have his number, but would feel it is not worth bothering him over the phone with.

hanji the same one.

on the history and location of this gurdwara?