BhagatSingh

@akalpurkh A lot of these shabads have been mistranslated, like that Shabad where Kabir ji's Muslim Mother is getting angry at him for chanting Shri Ram Naam on his mala, all day.

ਹਮਾਰੇ ਕੁਲ ਕਉਨੇ ਰਾਮੁ ਕਹਿਓ ॥
Kabir's mother says - "Who has ever chanted "Ram" in our family?"
ਜਬ ਕੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਲਈ ਨਿਪੂਤੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਭਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
She continues-  "Ever since my idiot son took a mala in his hand, he has made my life miserable."
I will respond to all of them in due time.

Mala is an ancient device for keeping track of time (amongst other things).
In Guru Granth sahib, you will never hear Guru Sahibs say "meditate for 20 minutes" or "24 hours" or "meditate around the clock".
There were no clocks.
Their unit of measuring time was breath "meditate Shwas Giraas" meditate with every breath and every swallow, which translates to "meditate all the time".
Their unit of measuring time was the positioning of the sun "meditate Atth peher", which translated to "meditate 24 hours" or "meditate around the clock"
This is how tehy said to meditate all the time.
So what about specific amounts of time like "meditate for 20 minutes". Well that is done with a Mala. And it's a rough unit of measurement. It's your own personal unit of measurement.
Suppose - When you count on a mala, you can see that if you do 101 Malas that it goes from afternoon to evening, (roughly 3 hours in modern age).
So when you sit down with your eyes closed and going into a state of being, which is a state where you cannot keep track of time. Then you can rely on your Mala. You can do 101 Malas and you will know only 3 hours will pass by. 
You can focus on maintaining state, instead of worrying about time.
Can you imagine if you sit down to attempt samadhi and the whole day goes by because there are no clocks or alarms to tell you, you've been in smadhi for far too long? You will miss the day's work and all the chores you need to do.

Do you know those saints who went into Samadhi for days? Some even went into samadhi until their death and became fossilized!
Can a Grihasti banda afford to go through that?
That's the functional and practical aspect of having a mala. It acts like a timer, like an alarm clock.

Well for Vit D defeciency you can easily get a hold of supplements, and you put a few drops in your food. Done.
Also not all brown people are equally brown. The wheatish ones can probably go without.

The "all that" is much more difficult to deal with than Vit D. I'm more concerned about "all that" as it ties directly to spirituality and healthy lifestyle as well.

Regarding the earlier discussion on magic. I don't think it's wise to rule out magical explanations all the time. Don't make that the #1 explanation, sure, but certainly have open space for that possibility, in case it arises.

Our education is a certain type of education, one where there is no space for magic. So we are taught from childhood not to believe that stuff and we are given rigid explanations of the universe from authority figures (teachers) citing other authority figures (scientists in textbooks). However magical things do happen, and when they do the "educated" folks usually cannot accept it as the case. They will actively deny what is in front of them because they are so opposed to it.

I mean there are magical stories and anecdotes even in Guru Granth Sahib. We are sikh and we are supposed to read them, understand them, believe them and use them to advance to a higher spiritual level. How does education help understand these stories in Guru Granth Sahib?

It doesn't. In fact, it makes you opposed to them. You get so involved in questioning them that you miss the point of why they are even there to begin with.

This is not the fault of "educating" as a process for learning, which is a good thing. Rather it is the fault of the type of education we are given, a strictly materialistic, rigid, anti-magical, and maybe even anti-spiritual type of education.

List of ways you can meditate-
Sitting in one posture Sitting in different postures Sitting in a bus Sitting in a car Sitting while driving a car Sitting while eating Sitting straight up Leaning back in a chair Leaning forward in a chair Standing still in one posture Standing still in different postures Walking around town Pacing back and forth Running around Lying down in bed Lying down in a couch SO MANY OPTIONS!

Most people today are the nalikna avatar.
or as I say naparhna nalikna basbolna avatar.

Excellent bro!
After revisiting the botched translations thread with the particular "aaj Naamey bithaal dekhiya" shabad mentioned above, and with further pondering and meditation, I can say "accomplished".  I was probably about 95% with you back then, but It's a firm 100 now!
 
I was so grateful that my mind's been playing the below version all day
 

Thanks man.

I think I've pretty much got how to tie it, I just need to practice so that I can consistently get that shape, and find out how our ancestors got it to look so neat (that is if they ever tied it neatly).
 
It should appear in that post now that I've uploaded it to the forum.
 
In terms of Sikh gurus - Guru Hari Gobind ji to Guru Gobind Singh ji.

As far as I know, previous gurus, Guru Nanak Dev ji to Guru Arjun Dev ji did not wear a turban.
 
That's a different guy.

Yea he is often depicted with one as well. A lot of the Gurus did wear it. Bhagat Kabir ji and many other Bhagats were Gurus with their own followings.

When a successor Guru was appointed, they would put the topi on his head, put seli around the neck and on topi, and put tilak on forehead and do the arti plate ceremony.

There's even a shabad in Guru Granth Sahib describing this process, but I can't seem to remember it very well or find it.

Now here Guru Arjun Dev ji is wearing a turban. This is a late 1800s painting and the artists of this time never painted Gurus 2-5 with a cap, only Guru Nanak Dev ji.

In the post below, I am explaining the different faces of God. It is difficult to see them without meditation and developing what is traditionally known as Divya Drishti, divine sight, which comes from meditation and grace.

Avoid reading theories upon theories without meditating. It will not get you anywhere.
So this post is not a replacement for meditation. and this post cannot be understood fully without meditation.

When in doubt always meditate (instead of thinking). Thinking cannot clear doubt.
 
You (and me) are defining God as consciousness. Yet consciousness is also something within creation.
This is because God Consciousness is not the same as Man Consciousness. Absolute Consciousness vs Relative Consciousness.

God Time is not the same as Man Time. Absolute Time vs Relative Time (that changes with perception and gravity).
 
So when Guru Granth Sahib is talking about God Consciousness and says time is an illusion. They are speaking from the point of view and from the belief system of Consciousness, where time is changing or a measurement of change.

Guru Granth Sahib says Consciousness is ultimately outside of Time. That it is God Consciousness who is entering Time-Space to protect devotees for instance. Guru Amardas ji tells the story of Prahlaad ji, for whom the God Consciousness, Narsingh, appeared before everyone to save him. Absolute Consciousness (Narsingh) entering Time-Space to protect devotees for instance.

Guru Amardas ji says
ਭਗਤਾ ਕਾ ਅੰਗੀਕਾਰੁ ਕਰਦਾ ਆਇਆ ॥ ਕਰਤੈ ਅਪਣਾ ਰੂਪੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ॥
He always protects his devotees. Once again, the Creator, Narsingh, has showed himself!

Dasam Granth considers God Time as the reality and speaks from that and says that Consciousness entering and leaving Time, that is not God. Consciousness is not absolute, consciousness is consumed by God Time.

According to Dasam Granth (in Vachitra Natak Granth),
ਨਰਸਿੰਘਾਵਤਾਰੰ ॥ ਵਹੈ ਕਾਲ ਮਾਰੰ ॥
Narsingh is simply something appearing in Time, that was destroyed by Time (Kaal) afterwards.

From the perspective of Time, Consciousness appears and disappears, Time does not.


In Guru Granth Sahib Narsingh is Absolute Consciousness. Hence why they worship Narsingh.
ਕਹਿ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਹਮ ਨਰਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵਹ ਰਾਮੁ ਅਭੈ ਪਦ ਦਾਤਾ ॥
Says Nam Dev, I meditate on Narsingh, the giver of fearlessness, the liberator.
 
So Guru Granth Sahib is saying Kaal is an illusion inside Narsingh. And Dasam Granth is saying that Narsingh is an illusion inside Kaal.

Two very different paradigms.
 
Yes and Time is the ultimate oneness and is unchanging and contains all changes.

Every change is happening in Time. It is the Eternal Present Moment. Time is also perceived as a moment but the perception also takes place in Time.


Dasam Granth (in Vachitra Natak Granth) -
ਜਿਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਬੀਤੇ ॥ ਤਿਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਜੀਤੇ ॥
All things that came into being, were conquered by Time.
ਜਿਤੇ ਸਰਨਿ ਜੈਹੈਂ ॥ਤਿਤਿਓ ਰਾਖ ਲੈਹੈਂ ॥੭੫॥
Whoever goes into the sanctuary of Time (called Present Moment), they are saved.

 
Scientific theories are always limited to a certain paradigm. Current science lives in the materialistic paradigm that the Physical Universe is the ultimate reality and everything exists within the Physical only, and the Physical Universe has generated Consciousness through evolution.

That's one face of God.


We believe that Consciousness generates the physical universe. Physical universe lives inside Consciousness. Hence why Vishnu is called Shri Niwaas, the house of the world itself.

Rupert Spira is very good at explaining this.
That's another face of God.

Keep watching and Rupert also gives a Time-Centric explanation at - 12:38. Maybe you'll understand him better than me.


Paradigms with Time at the center is another face of God.

Eckharte Tolle is very good at explaining this Time-centric view as well. Read "The Power of Now".

In terms of scientific theories - If you listen to Stuart Hammeroff's theory of consciousness. He says it is Space-Time Geometry that collapses into Happenings, which is defined as a moment of Perception. He is essentially saying Time generates Consciousness.

Stuart is the guy on the left with the white beard and bald head.

 

Lol. Indeed he is. wink wink ;)

They are all badass.

They are different representations of that which is at the center of everything.

One person might call it consciousness, another might call it energy and another might call it time. The consciousness guy says energy and time are illusions. The energy guy says consciousness and time are illusions. The time guy says consciousness and energy are illusions.
It is important to be in touch with that pure essence.

I personally prescribe to the Consciousness-centric worldview similar to WakeUp, which is what is expressed in Guru Granth Sahib also, using not the name 'Shiv' or the english word 'consciousness' but instead the names, pictures and stories of - Hari, Vishnu, Ram and Krishna.

But I understand other paradigms like that of Adi Shakti (which Opal presented) and that of Mahakal (which I presented), both of which are also discussed in Dasam Granth.
 
One should go into the very deepest essence that one can access. Never lose sight of that essence in all the worldviews and belief systems that exist. That essence alone is ultimately real and not the beliefs you prescribe to.

But it is also important to have beliefs. Beliefs are the backbone of your spiritual growth. They are tools that you will use to hammer your intellect and transform it into something beautiful.

It is important to have beliefs and to stick by them like Baba Namdev ji did in the court of the Muslim Emperor who wanted him killed for not chanting Allah instead of chanting Hari and Ram. He stood by his belief system even though he understood the belief system of the emperor. While under attack, he rattled his chains and sung of Ram.

Namdev ji himself taught do not chant other names, only stick to chanting Ram. It means to stick to a belief system so that you can progress spiritually and learn to taste the essence. Ram was the center of Namdev ji's belief system so that's what he taught.

But some people take the wrong meaning out of it and start rejecting other belief systems as ignorance. They say mine is superior and yours is all nonsense. They devote their attention to this pursuit and not the pursuit their belief system is encouraging, thus they do not progress spiritually.

Other people take the easy route and accept everything as true without understanding the essence. They say every belief system is good, they become lazy and don't follow any system. They remain ignorant. Thus they do not progress spiritually either.

Namdev ji says one who follows a belief system and makes progress in that system is the enlightened one.

Now perhaps this shabad will make more sense, when read again in a new light -

Very difficult to say because it's not a linear stream of uniform events because we are all different and here to learn our own lessons with our own learning curves.
There are many sounds that come and go before anhad gets pargat. These sounds all vary for each one of us and I'm sure they are related to the frequencies of nadi channels, chakras etc.. The idea is that you have to keep passing them and continuing with your jaap. The anhad shabad is itself indescribable and it won't manifest if you search for it or have your "matt' questioning for it.  The key is to lay, sacrifice, baliharey your mann and matt to Guru and then guru's matt takes over(Gurmat).
Even if someone replies yes or no, to your question of high pitched sounds, it will still not be of much benefit or any concrete reassurance.

ਅੰਬਰ
Not as much. They became "a thing" during Maharaja Ranjit Singh's time. What I mean is that the dastaar boonga, blue clothes, droopy farla, certain parts of their maryada, etc... basically what they do nowadays.... all of that started during Maharaja Ranjit Singh's time.
 
Not sure if Afghanis were into blue. But the Nihangs definitely fought the British a lot as well. They hated the British and thus Red coats. Which partly (keyword - partly) explains the rise of blue.

Lol. Indeed he is. wink wink ;)

They are all badass.

They are different representations of that which is at the center of everything.

One person might call it consciousness, another might call it energy and another might call it time. The consciousness guy says energy and time are illusions. The energy guy says consciousness and time are illusions. The time guy says consciousness and energy are illusions.
It is important to be in touch with that pure essence.

I personally prescribe to the Consciousness-centric worldview similar to WakeUp, which is what is expressed in Guru Granth Sahib also, using not the name 'Shiv' or the english word 'consciousness' but instead the names, pictures and stories of - Hari, Vishnu, Ram and Krishna.

But I understand other paradigms like that of Adi Shakti (which Opal presented) and that of Mahakal (which I presented), both of which are also discussed in Dasam Granth.
 
One should go into the very deepest essence that one can access. Never lose sight of that essence in all the worldviews and belief systems that exist. That essence alone is ultimately real and not the beliefs you prescribe to.

But it is also important to have beliefs. Beliefs are the backbone of your spiritual growth. They are tools that you will use to hammer your intellect and transform it into something beautiful.

It is important to have beliefs and to stick by them like Baba Namdev ji did in the court of the Muslim Emperor who wanted him killed for not chanting Allah instead of chanting Hari and Ram. He stood by his belief system even though he understood the belief system of the emperor. While under attack, he rattled his chains and sung of Ram.

Namdev ji himself taught do not chant other names, only stick to chanting Ram. It means to stick to a belief system so that you can progress spiritually and learn to taste the essence. Ram was the center of Namdev ji's belief system so that's what he taught.

But some people take the wrong meaning out of it and start rejecting other belief systems as ignorance. They say mine is superior and yours is all nonsense. They devote their attention to this pursuit and not the pursuit their belief system is encouraging, thus they do not progress spiritually.

Other people take the easy route and accept everything as true without understanding the essence. They say every belief system is good, they become lazy and don't follow any system. They remain ignorant. Thus they do not progress spiritually either.

Namdev ji says one who follows a belief system and makes progress in that system is the enlightened one.

Now perhaps this shabad will make more sense, when read again in a new light -

Lol. Indeed he is. wink wink ;)

They are all badass.

They are different representations of that which is at the center of everything.

One person might call it consciousness, another might call it energy and another might call it time. The consciousness guy says energy and time are illusions. The energy guy says consciousness and time are illusions. The time guy says consciousness and energy are illusions.
It is important to be in touch with that pure essence.

I personally prescribe to the Consciousness-centric worldview similar to WakeUp, which is what is expressed in Guru Granth Sahib also, using not the name 'Shiv' or the english word 'consciousness' but instead the names, pictures and stories of - Hari, Vishnu, Ram and Krishna.

But I understand other paradigms like that of Adi Shakti (which Opal presented) and that of Mahakal (which I presented), both of which are also discussed in Dasam Granth.
 
One should go into the very deepest essence that one can access. Never lose sight of that essence in all the worldviews and belief systems that exist. That essence alone is ultimately real and not the beliefs you prescribe to.

But it is also important to have beliefs. Beliefs are the backbone of your spiritual growth. They are tools that you will use to hammer your intellect and transform it into something beautiful.

It is important to have beliefs and to stick by them like Baba Namdev ji did in the court of the Muslim Emperor who wanted him killed for not chanting Allah instead of chanting Hari and Ram. He stood by his belief system even though he understood the belief system of the emperor. While under attack, he rattled his chains and sung of Ram.

Namdev ji himself taught do not chant other names, only stick to chanting Ram. It means to stick to a belief system so that you can progress spiritually and learn to taste the essence. Ram was the center of Namdev ji's belief system so that's what he taught.

But some people take the wrong meaning out of it and start rejecting other belief systems as ignorance. They say mine is superior and yours is all nonsense. They devote their attention to this pursuit and not the pursuit their belief system is encouraging, thus they do not progress spiritually.

Other people take the easy route and accept everything as true without understanding the essence. They say every belief system is good, they become lazy and don't follow any system. They remain ignorant. Thus they do not progress spiritually either.

Namdev ji says one who follows a belief system and makes progress in that system is the enlightened one.

Now perhaps this shabad will make more sense, when read again in a new light -

Lol. Indeed he is. wink wink ;)

They are all badass.

They are different representations of that which is at the center of everything.

One person might call it consciousness, another might call it energy and another might call it time. The consciousness guy says energy and time are illusions. The energy guy says consciousness and time are illusions. The time guy says consciousness and energy are illusions.
It is important to be in touch with that pure essence.

I personally prescribe to the Consciousness-centric worldview similar to WakeUp, which is what is expressed in Guru Granth Sahib also, using not the name 'Shiv' or the english word 'consciousness' but instead the names, pictures and stories of - Hari, Vishnu, Ram and Krishna.

But I understand other paradigms like that of Adi Shakti (which Opal presented) and that of Mahakal (which I presented), both of which are also discussed in Dasam Granth.
 
One should go into the very deepest essence that one can access. Never lose sight of that essence in all the worldviews and belief systems that exist. That essence alone is ultimately real and not the beliefs you prescribe to.

But it is also important to have beliefs. Beliefs are the backbone of your spiritual growth. They are tools that you will use to hammer your intellect and transform it into something beautiful.

It is important to have beliefs and to stick by them like Baba Namdev ji did in the court of the Muslim Emperor who wanted him killed for not chanting Allah instead of chanting Hari and Ram. He stood by his belief system even though he understood the belief system of the emperor. While under attack, he rattled his chains and sung of Ram.

Namdev ji himself taught do not chant other names, only stick to chanting Ram. It means to stick to a belief system so that you can progress spiritually and learn to taste the essence. Ram was the center of Namdev ji's belief system so that's what he taught.

But some people take the wrong meaning out of it and start rejecting other belief systems as ignorance. They say mine is superior and yours is all nonsense. They devote their attention to this pursuit and not the pursuit their belief system is encouraging, thus they do not progress spiritually.

Other people take the easy route and accept everything as true without understanding the essence. They say every belief system is good, they become lazy and don't follow any system. They remain ignorant. Thus they do not progress spiritually either.

Namdev ji says one who follows a belief system and makes progress in that system is the enlightened one.

Now perhaps this shabad will make more sense, when read again in a new light -

All existence is constantly changing, moment to moment.
Energy is also in constant continuous motion.......
TIME is consuming (eating away) into this existence at a constant rate also.
 
Good stuff, I'm out of popcorn
 
 
 

Sick picture!
mahakaal is a bad ass

You are both wrong!

Feast your eyes upon the eternity that is the present moment!
Shiv and Shakti both arise out of Mahakal, the supreme Time.  Both consciousness and Energy, Shiv and Shakti, are merely arising and falling in Kaal, boundless Father Time! They both arise in the present moment. Mahakal hai Pita Apara. In his body, exists countless consciousnesses, countless forms of energy.

Kaal consumes conscious, energy-filled entities for breakfast. Thus Time is ultimately real. All else is false. Time alone is Timeless.
None can escape the jaws of Mahakal!



Get wrecked

You are both wrong!

Feast your eyes upon the eternity that is the present moment!
Shiv and Shakti both arise out of Mahakal, the supreme Time.  Both consciousness and Energy, Shiv and Shakti, are merely arising and falling in Kaal, boundless Father Time! They both arise in the present moment. Mahakal hai Pita Apara. In his body, exists countless consciousnesses, countless forms of energy.

Kaal consumes conscious, energy-filled entities for breakfast. Thus Time is ultimately real. All else is false. Time alone is Timeless.
None can escape the jaws of Mahakal!



Get wrecked

This is the most boring fight ever. BOOOOO!!

*throws all popcorn into garbage*
 
Edit - Oh wait, missed the post by Wakeup above.

*Pulls out Popcorn from garbage*

If time is an illusion did I ever throw away the popcorn?

You are both wrong!

Feast your eyes upon the eternity that is the present moment!
Shiv and Shakti both arise out of Mahakal, the supreme Time.  Both consciousness and Energy, Shiv and Shakti, are merely arising and falling in Kaal, boundless Father Time! They both arise in the present moment. Mahakal hai Pita Apara. In his body, exists countless consciousnesses, countless forms of energy.

Kaal consumes conscious, energy-filled entities for breakfast. Thus Time is ultimately real. All else is false. Time alone is Timeless.
None can escape the jaws of Mahakal!



Get wrecked

Mai Bhago ji did so much bhagti she lost attachment and worry of clothes, and walked around naked.
When this was brought to Guru Gobind Singh ji's attention Guru Sahib then intervened and told her to cover her body and her head and that walking naked would bring dishonour to her family.
That's the original and oldest reference we have to this sakhi.

Not even a minute into the video, and it's already becoming so clear how important it is to have a purpose in life.

The above you referenced is not literal. Most every religion speaks of creation of the Universe being initiated by a word. This is true, base of creation is vibration. Sound is only one part of the spectrum of vibration as is heat, radiation, electromagnetic, light, microwave, and... at the far end from sound, thought. Even matter is just energy at a slow rate of vibration so it manifests into something tangible. Where the metaphor comes is, nothing including your own body are real. Scientists say that it's a miracle that every solid thing in existence is 99.9999% empty space so why don't we fall through a chair? The reference to Vishnu etc are not speaking of literal material entities but they represent various aspects of creation. 
Also remember time is part of the creation and there only exists now. Past and future are illusions. Try to define now. You can't pinpoint an exact 'now' because if you try, you automatically give it a start and finish, but now is not a set point in time. Rather its just the wave front moving through something else. Like a video game saved on a hard drive. You might say the illusion of time is the game start to finish but looking at the hard drive you see it's just a hard drive with everything the entire game sitting there all at once. It's only your perspective of playing it when you live the illusion of time. The 'now' would basically be where the hard drive heads are reading and they are constantly moving so you can't say now is this point to this point. There is no 'now' in reality. There is just 'all'. 
So evolution is really not the evolution of matter as from Waheguru perspective everything exists all at once. Where evolution comes in is the experience of jumping into the game. The experience of unfolding consciousness and awakening to self. The game itself is becoming self aware. That's why life becomes more complex. As mineral and plant there is a dreamlike state. As animal only instincticual awareness but more aware of surroundings. As human Creator can finally ask the important question of who am I. 
We are just the costumes. But the awareness behind us all is God. When a human awakens to reality is not a human waking up, it's God waking up in human form. 
The 'word' is conscious thought, or intent. The evolution is the awakening to self awareness.