BhagatSingh

It is important to follow the 3 pillars of Sikhism to keep your heart in the right place.
The three pillars are -
1. Naam Japna - meditation
2. Vand Chhakna - being generous and kind - sharing things, knowledge, love, wisdom etc that you have/feel
3. Sachi Kirt Karni - Truthful actions - speaking Truth, acting according to the Truth
If any of these pillars are missing you will screw up your nervous system, which will make you lost.
Your body-car will become rusted, the engine will screw up and the gps will go out of whack. Your body-computer will constantly fill up with ads and viruses, when you go to load one program another one will open.

You will meditate and wonder why isn't it bringing any results.
It's not bringing results because the house has been built completely wrong. The roof is collapsing and the walls the breaking down.
It body-building must be supported by all 3 pillars.
 
 
Do you feel "disoriented and imbalanced" when that happens? Is that what you mean by "inside of my head starts spinning"?
 

It is important to follow the 3 pillars of Sikhism to keep your heart in the right place.
The three pillars are -
1. Naam Japna - meditation
2. Vand Chhakna - being generous and kind - sharing things, knowledge, love, wisdom etc that you have/feel
3. Sachi Kirt Karni - Truthful actions - speaking Truth, acting according to the Truth
If any of these pillars are missing you will screw up your nervous system, which will make you lost.
Your body-car will become rusted, the engine will screw up and the gps will go out of whack. Your body-computer will constantly fill up with ads and viruses, when you go to load one program another one will open.

You will meditate and wonder why isn't it bringing any results.
It's not bringing results because the house has been built completely wrong. The roof is collapsing and the walls the breaking down.
It body-building must be supported by all 3 pillars.
 
 
Do you feel "disoriented and imbalanced" when that happens? Is that what you mean by "inside of my head starts spinning"?
 

In Vaishnavism, it is Consciousness that came first.

You can see this view mirrored in Guru Granth Sahib.


In Shaktism, it is Energy or physicality that came first.

You can see this view mirrored in the opening lines of Chandi di Vaar.
 
This is the fundamental duality.

Both worldviews recognize that fundamentally consciousness and energy are the same but there is a duality there that is perceived.

That duality is referred to as Shiv-Shakti.
 
Guru sahib says - Jaha dekhan taha Ravi rahe, Shiv Shakti ka mel - wherever I look I see Ravi (Sun, light and radiance) of the union of Shiv and Shakti (Consciousness and Energy)

 
In Chandi Di Vaar, Khanda is referring to Consciousness and it dividing (Khandan) the Oneness of Energy in to distinct Khands/sections, into objects, locations, people, etc, and that's creates our world.

Bhagawati Devi (Adi Shakti, Energy) first creates the Khanda that is Consciousness and then the process of Creation, Preservation and Destruction (here Brahma-Vishnu and Mahadev are referring to processes rather than to Supreme Consciousness).


The flip version of this is expressed in Guru Granth Sahib.

Where Hari ji creates Maya (Energy), which then creates duality within the Oneness of Consciousness. Maya divides one singular consciousness in to multiple bodies, in multiple forms.
Maya entices Consciousness - Brahma Bishan Mahadev moheya - to its variety of forms and this is why the servants of Hari must learn to remain detached from Maya so that they see the Oneness. Baishno so jis upar suprasan, Bishan ki Maya te hoye bhin.

Hope that clears things up.

I respect your opinion and preference however you are using gurbani to prove something that it is not saying.
Excessive discussion whether about Gurmati or otherwise is not good for you. Guru Granth Sahib ji makes this clear.

Alcohol doesn't calm your nerves. It inhibits your consciousness.
So it would have the opposite effect for a sikh who is trying to raise his consciousness.
That said, alcohol in small doses can  be medicinal for someone who has raised their awareness beyond control.
I am looking at it from a much broader perspective than what you are giving credit for.
Because I am essentially saying that there are many ways of getting closer to God and dancing is one of them.
It would be a narrower perspective to say that spiritual practices other than my own (naam simaran) cannot bring you closer to Waheguru ji.
That is what you are saying.
So its not me who needs to broaden my scope. It is you who needs to see that there are many approaches to realization of God.

I respect your opinion and preference however you are using gurbani to prove something that it is not saying.
Excessive discussion whether about Gurmati or otherwise is not good for you. Guru Granth Sahib ji makes this clear.

ਨਚਿ ਨਚਿ ਹਸਹਿ ਚਲਹਿ ਸੇ ਰੋਇ ॥
First they dance and laugh (celebrate) and then when it comes time to leave, they cry.

They are not crying because they are dancing but because they have not attached their consciousness to Hari.
 
 
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਾਵੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਚੈ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਤੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Gurmukh sings, gumukh dances, he attaches his consciousness to Hari.
 
A Gurmukh dances and has Hari on his mind, and so the dancing attaches his consciousness to Hari ji.


The most natural thing to do in the presence of Hari ji is to dance because the meeting with Hari is such a blissful experience.
Those who feel it deeply will find themselves dancing.


ਤੇਰਾ ਜਨੁ ਨਿਰਤਿ ਕਰੇ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਵੈ ॥
Your servant dances and sings your praises.


 
Bhangra/Gidha may have minimal to none spiritual benefit especially how it is popularly done but it is much better than arguing on forums, which has negative effects on spirituality.
You can connect to Hari much faster through physical movement than through using the intellect.
Using the intellect, you are strengthening only that which impedes your capability to see the undivided, non-Dual Awareness.
To see the non-dual awareness, you must calm your intellect and enter your body and flow with the vibration.
 
By speaking and speaking nothing will come of it.
By flowing with the vibration the Lord of the Universe is discovered.

In my humble, but confident opinion,   . this pangtee is explained  out of context from the original verse.  :
The verse can be discussed and deciphered further if anyone wishes to do so. I'd be happy to add further., (although i won't be back on forum for a while)
 
Just reminding myself with the older responses from 2015 (page 1)
 
 
 
Below is the verse, .. and it's worth looking at it carefully (very carefully) and pondering over a few questions that I raised and asked myself. (at the end-below)
ਮਃ ੧ ॥ 
Mėhlā 1. 
First Mehl: 
ਵਾਇਨਿ ਚੇਲੇ ਨਚਨਿ ਗੁਰ ॥ 
vā▫in cẖele nacẖan gur. 
The disciples play the music, and the gurus dance. 
ਪੈਰ ਹਲਾਇਨਿ ਫੇਰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਸਿਰ ॥ 
Pair halā▫in ferniĥ sir. 
They move their feet and roll their heads. 
ਉਡਿ ਉਡਿ ਰਾਵਾ ਝਾਟੈ ਪਾਇ ॥ 
Ud ud rāvā jẖātai pā▫e. 
The dust flies and falls upon their hair. 
ਵੇਖੈ ਲੋਕੁ ਹਸੈ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਇ ॥ 
vekẖai lok hasai gẖar jā▫e. 
Beholding them, the people laugh, and then go home. 
ਰੋਟੀਆ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਪੂਰਹਿ ਤਾਲ ॥ 
Rotī▫ā kāraṇ pūrėh ṯāl. 
They beat the drums for the sake of bread. 
ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾੜਹਿ ਧਰਤੀ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ 
Āp pacẖẖāṛėh ḏẖarṯī nāl. 
They throw themselves upon the ground. 
ਗਾਵਨਿ ਗੋਪੀਆ ਗਾਵਨਿ ਕਾਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ॥ 
Gāvan gopī▫ā gāvan kānĥ. 
They sing of the milk-maids, they sing of the Krishnas. 
ਗਾਵਨਿ ਸੀਤਾ ਰਾਜੇ ਰਾਮ ॥ 
Gāvan sīṯā rāje rām. 
They sing of Sitas, and Ramas and kings. 
ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ॥ 
Nirbẖa▫o nirankār sacẖ nām. 
The Lord is fearless and formless; His Name is True. 
ਜਾ ਕਾ ਕੀਆ ਸਗਲ ਜਹਾਨੁ ॥ 
Jā kā kī▫ā sagal jahān. 
The entire universe is His Creation. 
ਸੇਵਕ ਸੇਵਹਿ ਕਰਮਿ ਚੜਾਉ ॥ 
Sevak sevėh karam cẖaṛā▫o. 
Those servants, whose destiny is awakened, serve the Lord. 
ਭਿੰਨੀ ਰੈਣਿ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਮਨਿ ਚਾਉ ॥ 
Bẖinnī raiṇ jinĥā man cẖā▫o. 
The night of their lives is cool with dew; their minds are filled with love for the Lord. 
ਸਿਖੀ ਸਿਖਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥ 
Sikẖī sikẖi▫ā gur vīcẖār. 
Contemplating the Guru, I have been taught these teachings; 
ਨਦਰੀ ਕਰਮਿ ਲਘਾਏ ਪਾਰਿ ॥ 
Naḏrī karam lagẖā▫e pār. 
granting His Grace, He carries His servants across. 
ਕੋਲੂ ਚਰਖਾ ਚਕੀ ਚਕੁ ॥ 
Kolū cẖarkẖā cẖakī cẖak. 
The oil-press, the spinning wheel, the grinding stones, the potter's wheel, 
ਥਲ ਵਾਰੋਲੇ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਅਨੰਤੁ ॥ 
Thal vārole bahuṯ ananṯ. 
the numerous, countless whirlwinds in the desert, 
ਲਾਟੂ ਮਾਧਾਣੀਆ ਅਨਗਾਹ ॥ 
Lātū māḏẖāṇī▫ā angāh. 
the spinning tops, the churning sticks, the threshers, 
ਪੰਖੀ ਭਉਦੀਆ ਲੈਨਿ ਨ ਸਾਹ ॥ 
Pankẖī bẖa▫uḏī▫ā lain na sāh. 
the breathless tumblings of the birds, 
ਸੂਐ ਚਾੜਿ ਭਵਾਈਅਹਿ ਜੰਤ ॥ 
Sū▫ai cẖāṛ bẖavā▫ī▫ah janṯ. 
and the men moving round and round on spindles - 
ਨਾਨਕ ਭਉਦਿਆ ਗਣਤ ਨ ਅੰਤ ॥ 
Nānak bẖa▫uḏi▫ā gaṇaṯ na anṯ. 
O Nanak, the tumblers are countless and endless. 
ਬੰਧਨ ਬੰਧਿ ਭਵਾਏ ਸੋਇ ॥ 
Banḏẖan banḏẖ bẖavā▫e so▫e. 
The Lord binds us in bondage - so do we spin around. 
ਪਇਐ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਨਚੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥ 
Pa▫i▫ai kiraṯ nacẖai sabẖ ko▫e. 
According to their actions, so do all people dance. 
ਨਚਿ ਨਚਿ ਹਸਹਿ ਚਲਹਿ ਸੇ ਰੋਇ ॥ 
Nacẖ nacẖ hasėh cẖalėh se ro▫e. 
Those who dance and dance and laugh, shall weep on their ultimate departure. 
ਉਡਿ ਨ ਜਾਹੀ ਸਿਧ ਨ ਹੋਹਿ ॥ 
Ud na jāhī siḏẖ na hohi. 
They do not fly to the heavens, nor do they become Siddhas. 
ਨਚਣੁ ਕੁਦਣੁ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਚਾਉ ॥ 
Nacẖaṇ kuḏaṇ man kā cẖā▫o. 
They dance and jump around on the urgings of their minds. 
ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਮਨਿ ਭਉ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਉ ॥੨॥ 
Nānak jinĥ man bẖa▫o ṯinĥā man bẖā▫o. ||2|| 
O Nanak, those whose minds are filled with the Fear of God, have the love of God in their minds as well. ||2|| 
 
 
QUESTIONS
1)   For what reasons and what "Intentions" is the dancing referring to?  It describes a group of people that have a name.    However, are these group of people imitating another bunch of people? ...maybe a a group that does something similar with different intention and as an act of serving / praising the lord?
2) Are they serving the lord with their dancing or are they serving their own maya hunger? " (clue is "Rotī▫ā kāraṇ pūrėh ṯāl.")
3)  The shabad continues to describe how other people dance with the daily sounds of grinding stones, the potter's wheel,  oil-press..etc..  This is referring to people that are doing the work of karams as per hukam, but it's not their physical body that is dancing. They ARE dancing in harmony whilst doing Kirat. REMEMBER- DANCING is expression combined with repetition, to the tempo of repeating beat or rhythm.  I
4) Can we see that there 2 groups of people described as dancing. One's dancing in display for intentions and fulfillment of maya hunger and the other's dancing internally whilst doing bhog of daily karams....  These karams are as per hukam and help contribute to the kirat.
ਬੰਧਨ ਬੰਧਿ ਭਵਾਏ ਸੋਇ ॥ 
Banḏẖan banḏẖ bẖavā▫e so▫e. 
The Lord binds us in bondage - so do we spin around. 
ਪਇਐ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਨਚੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥ 
Pa▫i▫ai kiraṯ nacẖai sabẖ ko▫e. 
According to their actions, so do all people dance.
The above  describes how we all dance, but it's the "how" and as per "kirat"  that's important here.   Kirat karna, Vand shakna and naam japna  CAN ALL be done simultaneously in the form of dance(Yes, they can!)   The real significance of bhangra moves have a lot of meanings to them; They are about activities whilst doing  kirat (working in farms/fields) , there are  moves that mimic animals of the pastures,  the gadda(tractor),  preparing soil, sowing seeds... reaping the grain..cutting the corn....and many more  You need to think of these bhangra moves and music, minus the polluting lyrics that have infiltrated this traditional folk dance. 
The bani above says" ਪਇਐ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਨਚੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ  "According to their actions, so do all people dance.  and the lines preceding gave details of the different intentions.   Those who ਨਚਿ ਨਚਿ ਹਸਹਿ, (Nacẖ nacẖ hasėh) and will be ਚਲਹਿ ਸੇ ਰੋਇ  are the one's that danced for the physical dehi's intentions. The shabad addresses a few main points directly  that characterize different dancing, ...The "What or Who is dancing? and also the Who is one dancing to?  Is it to EGO of maya, or is it to the Truth of the Niranankar. This all depends on where you consciousness is attached and what your intentions are.
 It indirectly addresses EGO, since the shabad never mentions haumai or ahankar, but EGO is the reason of why One's body dances for intentions of maya, whereas, the other's inner soul dances in harmony whilst doing bhog of it's karams whilst doing sift salah of Satguru (HUKAM) ememeber what Naamdev told Trilochan about printing designs on the sheets whilst he was internally attached to the Lord. ...........

ਹਾਥ ਪਾਉ ਕਰਿ ਕਾਮੁ ਸਭੁ ਚੀਤੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੨੧੩॥ 
Hāth pā▫o kar kām sabẖ cẖīṯ niranjan nāl. ||213|| 
With your hands and feet, do all your work, but let your consciousness remain with the Immaculate Lord. ||213|| 
Then, why would dancing be a problem if consciousness is NOT on 5 chor, but on Niranjan.   We've been foolishly misled to associate all dancing with nowadays connections to kaam, lust and sexual innuendos. This is because of the lyrics and motives they use to market the dances and songs.
 
Sacred dancing has existed in almost every ancient civilization. The different variants and forms of worship have to be appreciated from all these cultures to understand the meanings of unison and harmony. The arti itself is a representation of the divine cosmic dance that has existed since the beginning and that will continue to do so. 

Why are you splitting this into 3 schools of thought when it is actually one school of thought.
In Gurbani, it states that there is non-dual oneness of Consciousness or Being Hari ji that appears as Hari-Maya (or Shiv-Shakti) and that everything that is perceived is coming One Universal Vibration (Aum), that is "uttered" by Hari ji.

The Oneness Advait Consciousness appears as Dual Consciousness and Energy, and it is through the vibration of the Onkar.

That is all one perspective in Guru Granth Sahib.
 
2. The second perspective comes from Chandi di Vaar because it puts Bhagawati/Adi Shakti ji, which is Energy/Power, at the top, instead of Hari ji, Consciousness. That is Shaktism's perspective.

3. The third perspective comes from Bichitra Natak, which puts Mahakal ji, which Time/Death, at the top instead of Energy or Consciousness. So you might ask how can Time be the creator of Consciousness and Energy. Well contemplate this phrase - Eternal Now.
 
Ultimately, when there is an experience of Oneness, then all these perspectives merge into one. Monotheism into Polytheism into Pantheism, and Advait into Dvait and Vaishavism into Shaktism into Shaivism.

So ultimately it simply IS.
However for the sake of understanding different approaches are there.
Different paths up the same mountain, like they say.

 

See this thread where we discussed different perspectives.
Start from Wakeup's comment and keep reading the remainder of page 2 and page 3.
 
 

In order to see other perspectives, you must contemplate how one Beingness, Consciousnes, can be perceived as Energy or Time by Saints from different traditions.

Then you will enjoy the taste of Chandi di Vaar (the eulogy of Energy) and Bichitra Natak (the eulogy of Time).

Why are you splitting this into 3 schools of thought when it is actually one school of thought.
In Gurbani, it states that there is non-dual oneness of Consciousness or Being Hari ji that appears as Hari-Maya (or Shiv-Shakti) and that everything that is perceived is coming One Universal Vibration (Aum), that is "uttered" by Hari ji.

The Oneness Advait Consciousness appears as Dual Consciousness and Energy, and it is through the vibration of the Onkar.

That is all one perspective in Guru Granth Sahib.
 
2. The second perspective comes from Chandi di Vaar because it puts Bhagawati/Adi Shakti ji, which is Energy/Power, at the top, instead of Hari ji, Consciousness. That is Shaktism's perspective.

3. The third perspective comes from Bichitra Natak, which puts Mahakal ji, which Time/Death, at the top instead of Energy or Consciousness. So you might ask how can Time be the creator of Consciousness and Energy. Well contemplate this phrase - Eternal Now.
 
Ultimately, when there is an experience of Oneness, then all these perspectives merge into one. Monotheism into Polytheism into Pantheism, and Advait into Dvait and Vaishavism into Shaktism into Shaivism.

So ultimately it simply IS.
However for the sake of understanding different approaches are there.
Different paths up the same mountain, like they say.

 

In Vaishnavism, it is Consciousness that came first.

You can see this view mirrored in Guru Granth Sahib.


In Shaktism, it is Energy or physicality that came first.

You can see this view mirrored in the opening lines of Chandi di Vaar.
 
This is the fundamental duality.

Both worldviews recognize that fundamentally consciousness and energy are the same but there is a duality there that is perceived.

That duality is referred to as Shiv-Shakti.
 
Guru sahib says - Jaha dekhan taha Ravi rahe, Shiv Shakti ka mel - wherever I look I see Ravi (Sun, light and radiance) of the union of Shiv and Shakti (Consciousness and Energy)

 
In Chandi Di Vaar, Khanda is referring to Consciousness and it dividing (Khandan) the Oneness of Energy in to distinct Khands/sections, into objects, locations, people, etc, and that's creates our world.

Bhagawati Devi (Adi Shakti, Energy) first creates the Khanda that is Consciousness and then the process of Creation, Preservation and Destruction (here Brahma-Vishnu and Mahadev are referring to processes rather than to Supreme Consciousness).


The flip version of this is expressed in Guru Granth Sahib.

Where Hari ji creates Maya (Energy), which then creates duality within the Oneness of Consciousness. Maya divides one singular consciousness in to multiple bodies, in multiple forms.
Maya entices Consciousness - Brahma Bishan Mahadev moheya - to its variety of forms and this is why the servants of Hari must learn to remain detached from Maya so that they see the Oneness. Baishno so jis upar suprasan, Bishan ki Maya te hoye bhin.

Hope that clears things up.

I don't know what it is.
But I'll tell you the general principle for all meditation. Just keep focused on the meditation and let whatever sensations  / experiences you have be. They will come, whatever is gonna happen will happen, and then they will go. I have found that the the body has energy channels which have blockages, these blockages become opened up *automatically* during meditation. During the process of them opening up, we experience sensations. But these sensations are not the goal of the path, but rather side effects of unblocking. Hence the instruction to stay focused on your meditation. 
Generally, my feeling is if something happens that might be a health issue we should get it checked out. In kaljug most people don't have a great avastha so stuff that comes up is usually health related rather than spiritual advancement. BUT, keep in mind that sometimes disease is buried deep, and as our body gets cleaned out, we experience colds etc which is garbage coming out of the body. So it's actually a good thing. 
Finally, if you still are unsure, go meet a sant. The internet cannot give you an accurate diagnosis but a sant who has a high avastha can probably help guide you further as needed. If you let us know which city you live near, we might be able to guide you to a sant. 

Evolution doesn't say that Humans evolved from Apes. Evolution states that Apes and Humans are two different species, both of which have a common ancestor.

Awesome thread!
I agree the hidden bindis not only affect meaning but also pronunciation. We ought to pronounce the words with the hidden bindis as we would if the bindi was there.

But I am wondering where are you getting your definitions from?

ਸਾਈ does not mean that. ਸੋਈ means that.
ਸਰਾ does not mean all. ਸਾਰਾ means all.

Please provide your source. I don't think these meanings are correct.

Allah, Mahakal, Shiva, yes.
Smelly socks... no but if that's what you meditate on then more power to you.
Hindu refers to any native living south of the Sindh river. That is what I mean by geographical identity.
Just like Turk can mean geographical identity or religious identity.
E.g. A Sikh who is a native of Turkey, is a Turk but not a Muslim.
Does that make sense?

which reacts when you touch it - this is important to the definition of the word.
ਛੂਈ - touch
ਮੂਈ - death

It might help to look at the context of the verse as well.

ਗੋਸਟਿ  - Gathering
ਚਰਚਾ - Discussion

Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia ਸੰ. ਗੋਸ੍ਠ. {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਗਊਆਂ ਦੇ ਠਹਿਰਣ ਦਾ ਥਾਂ. ਗੋਸ਼ਾਲਾ। (2) ਸੰ. ਗੋਸ੍ਠੀ. ਸ਼ਭਾ. ਮਜਲਿਸ। (3) ਭਾਵ- ਸਭਾ ਵਿੱਚ ਵਾਰਤਾਲਾਪ. ਚਰਚਾ. "ਗੋਸਟਿ ਗਿਆਨ ਨਾਮ ਸੁਣਿ ਉਧਰੇ". (ਸੋਰ ਮਃ ੫).

Yea Darwin was only talking about physical forms. But it takes a Saint like Aurobindo ji to understand that evolution is a phenomenon of the Spirit.