abdus-salaam Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 I've gotten mixed answers on this one....Can someone explain? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 There is a sehajdhari Maryada(guideline) called Wajib ul Arz where Guru Gobind Singh has said that sehajdharis are allowed to trim their beards to an "acceptable lenght" whatever that may be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinegar Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 What exactly is a sehajdari 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehtab Singh Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 There is a sehajdhari Maryada(guideline) called Wajib ul Arz where Guru Gobind Singh has said that sehajdharis are allowed to trim their beards to an "acceptable lenght" whatever that may be. I am sorry veeray but that just sounds ridiculous! Gurujee allowing trimming the beard? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Amardeep, Wajib ul Arz was a common village deed mainly used for property law etc. Please provide a tangibel reference for your claim. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 IMHO either you are Sikh or not........If you have accepted Maharaj Ji as your Guru, you do what they ask you to, or they aren't your Guru. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Bhai Chaupa Singh Rehitnama mentions Sehaj-dhari (SD) specifically and the rules that they must also observe i.e. performing amritvela ishnaan (bathing) and reciting japji sahib. Interestingly bahi Chaupa Singh also says that a SD may cut body hair, but not touch his beard (not sure if this may refer to kes also). Also menioned is that a kesh-dhari should not marry his daughter to a sehaj-dhari, unless he takes amrit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Re the "Vajib-u'l-Araz", found the source. It conflicts with Bhai Chaupa Singhs rehitnama for obvious reasons, but apparently makes mention of Guru Gobind Singh saying that keeping kes is impractical for a Sikh! Hmmm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 tirlochan singh in his " turban and swoerd of the skhs" attributes the sehajdhari maryada to Guru Dasam, and Bhai Mani Singh as its writer. But ther are refercnes to keeping kes on head intact, and beard may only be trimmed under certain circumstances. However this state of saehaj is not to be the ambition of a Sikh. even sejhajdgahris are required to be preparing to take amrit as much as possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Amardeep could you tell us more about the rehatmaryada you are talking about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 The wajib ul arz is to be found in a manuscript of Bhai Mani Singh wherein he mentions that he recorded the words of Guru Gobind Singh, and afterwards Guru Gobind Singh signed the document as being authentic. the rehitnama is 10 questions asked by hindu sehajdharis to Guru Gobind Singh regarding rehit, and the 8. question is regarding Kesh. If i remember correctly they ask him whether if they are allowed to cut their beards in the mughal style fashion as this is more practical for them when they are doing business with the mughals, whereas Maharaj says that if it is more convenient then they are allowed to cut it to an accebtable lenght, however they should all prepare themselves for taking amrit later on. it can be read in panjabi on the following link: http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...ght=sehaj+dhari and if you wish so abdus salam ji, i can find the book for you and type the english translation in. however on a site note, i do not see what is wrong with Guru Maharaj allowing Sehaj Dharis to cut their beard. THe kesh is the insignia of the Guru, it is the symbol of devotion and loyality to the Leader, and if sehaj dharis have not developed this loyality yet, why should they wear the insignia and symbol? That is like wearing a doctors uniform when you are still a student of medicine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehtab Singh Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 however on a site note, i do not see what is wrong with Guru Maharaj allowing Sehaj Dharis to cut their beard. THe kesh is the insignia of the Guru, it is the symbol of devotion and loyality to the Leader, and if sehaj dharis have not developed this loyality yet, why should they wear the insignia and symbol? That is like wearing a doctors uniform when you are still a student of medicine.In fact, in certain reputed medical schools, students do follow the uniform code where they are supposed to dress up as doctors during laboratory classes. I don't see Maharaj allowing anyone tocut a single kesh. There is a sakhi of a Sikh whom Dasmesh Pita was one day appreciating a lot. That night this Sikh cut off one white hair of his. The next day Dasmesh Pita sat with His back turned towards this Sikh. He asked Gurujee howcome yesterday you were not stopping appreciating me, and today You've turned Your back on me. Gurujee said "Today you are not what you were yesterday". It is not only hard, but impossible to imagine Gurujee allowing anyone to cut even a single kesh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 That Maryada seems to be for Hindu followers who have not yet become Sikhs - hence the need for the presence of a Brahmin at certain events. When there was a price on the head of a Sikh - was it not 'more convenient' to trim Kesh then? Not all Shaheeds have been Amritdhari. THe kesh is the insignia of the Guru, it is the symbol of devotion and loyality to the Leader, and if sehaj dharis have not developed this loyality yet, why should they wear the insignia and symbol? That's the whole point! Either you have faith in Maharaj Ji's teachings or you don't. However, I also don't see Guru Ji forcing anyone - even today you get people who will e.g. go see a Sant about some problem. Sant says do 25 Paaths a day and you'll be fine. Person replies: "i can't do that, i'll miss out on sleep, can i do 1 instead?" Sant says:"do what you want". The bottom line is, if you have made Maharaj Ji your Guru (i.e. become their Sikh) and given your mind, body and soul, then there's no compromise. You can't be half a Sikh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikh Answers Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Bhai Kanh Singh Nabha says cleary in Mahan Kosh under the entry for this 'rehitnama' that this was not written by Bhai Mani Singh and that Guru Gobind Singh would not have given such hukams. Please see Mahan Kosh for the entire entry. Macleod also agrees that this does not seem authentic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 "The bottom line is, if you have made Maharaj Ji your Guru (i.e. become their Sikh) and given your mind, body and soul, then there's no compromise. You can't be half a Sikh." Yes, i absolutely agree, but remember we are talking about sehaj dharis here, not amrit dharis.. sehaj dharis have not given their mind body and soul to the Guru yet, as they are still "in process". do you belive that the Rehit in the various rehatnames are meant for all sikhs, or only the amritdharis ? why should they follow the same rules as those who have given their heart mind and soul? whats the purpose of being a "slow adaptor" if all the rules have to be the same for the kindergarden students as well as the university students ? considering that Kesh is the morh, the insignia and symbol, of the Guru, i dont see why Guru Ji would tell "slow adopters" to keep this symbol if they dont belive in it 100% yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdus-salaam Posted February 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 "and if you wish so abdus salam ji, i can find the book for you and type the english translation in" I would appreciate that, thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Bhai Kanh Singh Nabha says cleary in Mahan Kosh under the entry for this 'rehitnama' that this was not written by Bhai Mani Singh and that Guru Gobind Singh would not have given such hukams. Please see Mahan Kosh for the entire entry. Macleod also agrees that this does not seem authentic. Freed already shed some light on bhai kahn singh nabha take on this hakumnama: Anyway here is the orginal post from Freed: // Gurfateh ! The 'rehatnama' you are looking for is the 'Vajib Ul Arz' - or 'reasonable request' - This document is found in Bhai Mani Singh's 'Bhagat ratna wali' and is in the form of ten questions - said to have been asked of Guru Gobind Singh by Sehaj dhari Sikhs - and Guru Sahib's response. It is quite controversial - the version I am posting - an entry from Kahn Singh Nabha's Mahan Kosh - is prefaced by Kahn Singh saying that this cannot be the writing of Bhai Mani Singh and Guru Sahib would never have made such 'Hukums'. The main controversial points are to do with the keeping of kesh (the document allows the trimming of kesh to an 'acceptable' length) and various ceremonies requiring the presence of a 'Brahmin' It must be remembered that 'Mahan Kosh' was written at the height of the Singh Sabha Movement and it could be argued Kahn Singh was its chief apologist. Like always it's for you to make your own decision. hope this helps in someway ! Ranjit Singh 'Freed' Here is the entry (in my copy of Mahan Kosh - 2000 edition, its on page 901) this version is from srigranth.org Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia Entry - ਵਾਜਿਬੁਲ ਅਰਜ ਅ਼. __ ਵਾਜਿਬੁਲ- ਅ਼ਰਜ. ਯੋਗ੍ਯ ਪ੍ਰਾਰਥਨਾ. ਵਿਨਯਪਤ੍ਰ। ੨. ਭਾਈ ਮਨੀਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਸਾਖੀ “ਭਗਤਾਵਲੀ†ਵਿੱਚ ਲਿਖੀ ਸਹਜਧਾਰੀ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਦੀ ਬੇਨਤੀ, ਜਿਸ ਵਿੱਚ ਦਸ ਪ੍ਰਸ਼ਨ ਦਸ਼ਮੇਸ਼ ਦੇ ਪੇਸ਼ ਕੀਤੇ ਗਏ ਹਨ. ਵਾਜਬੁਲਅਰਜ ਦੇ ਪਾਠ ਤੋਂ ਮਲੂਮ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਨਾ ਇਹ ਭਾਈ ਮਨੀਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਕਲਮ ਤੋਂ ਲਿਖੀ ਗਈ ਹੈ ਅਰ ਨਾ ਕਲਗੀਧਰ ਦੇ ਅਜੇਹੇ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਏ ਹਨ, ਪਰ ਪਾਠਕਾਂ ਦੇ ਗ੍ਯਾਨ ਲਈ ਇਸ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਵਿੱਚ ਅਸਲ ਪਾਠ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ. (ੳ) ਸਮੇ ਵਿਆਹ ਦੇ ਅਸੀਂ ਵੇਦਪਾਠੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਬੁਲਾਇਕੈ ਵਿਵਾਹ ਦੀਆਂ ਕਾਂਡੀਆਂ ਪੜ੍ਹਾਇਕੈ ਵਿਵਾਹ ਕਰਦੇ ਸਾਂ. ਤੇ ਹੁਣ ਸਿੱਖ¹ ਕਹਿਂਦੇ ਹਨ- ਤੁਸੀਂ ਆਨੰਦ ਪੜ੍ਹਕੇ ਵਿਵਾਹ ਕਰੋ, ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਨਾ ਬੁਲਾਵੋ. ਸੱਚੇ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ! ਅਬ ਜਿਵੈ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਵੈ. ਦਸਤਖਤ ਖਾਸ ਹੋਏ- ਪਹਿਲੇ ਆਨੰਦ ਪੜ੍ਹਨਾ, ਅਰਦਾਸ ਕਰਨੀ, ਪਿੱਛੇ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਾਂ ਥੀਂ ਹਮੇਸ਼ਾਂ ਜਿਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਪੜਾਵਦੇ ਆਏ ਹੋਂ, ਤਿਵੈ ਪੜਾਵਣਾ, ਸੰਸਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਨਾ. (ਅ) ਸਾਹਿਬਾ ਦਾ ਜੋ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਪੰਜਾਂ ਮੇਲਾਂ- ਧੀਰਮਲੀਏ, ਰਾਮਰਈਏ, ਮੀਣੇ, ਮਸੰਦ, ਸਿਰਗੁੰਮ- ਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਮਿਲਣਾ. ਸਿਰਗੁੰਮ ਕੌਣ ਹੈ? ਬਚਨ ਹੋਇਆ ਸਿਰਗੁੰਮ ਸਰੇਵੜੇ ਅਨੀਸੁਰਵਾਦੀ ਹੈਨ. ਨੰਦਚੰਦ ਸੰਘੇ ਦੇ ਭੀ ਸਿਰਗੁੰਮ ਹੈਨ. ਪੱਕਾ ਸਿਰਗੁੰਮ. ਤੁਰਕ ਹੈ. ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਅਰਦਾਸ ਕੀਤੀ- ਕੋਈ ਬਪਾਰ ਦੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਵਾਲਾ ਹੈ, ਕੋਈ ਮੁਸੱਦੀ ਪੇਸ਼ਾ ਹੈ, ਵਿਹਾਰ ਦਾ ਸਦਕਾ ਸਭ ਕਿਸੇ ਦਾ ਆਨ ਮੇਲ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ. ਤਾਂ ਖਾਸ ਦਸਤਖਤ ਹੋਏ- ਪਹਿਲੇ ਪੁੱਛਕੇ ਵਰਤਣ ਕਰਣੀ, ਜੋ ਭੁੱਲ ਭੁਲਾਂਵੇ ਵਰਤੋਂ, ਤਾਂ ਅਰਦਾਸ ਕਰਵਾਇ ਲੈਣੀ. (ੲ) ਸੱਚੇ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ! ਅਸੀਂ ਸਹਜਧਾਰੀ ਤੇਰੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਜੋ ਹੈਸਾਂ, ਸੋ ਮਾਤਾ ਪਿਤਾ ਦੇ ਮਰਣੇ ਉੱਪਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਕਰਮ ਭਦ੍ਰ ਜੋੜੀ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਦੀ ਰੀਤਿ ਸੀ, ਜੋ ਕਰਦੇ ਹੈਸਾਂ. ਤੇ ਹੁਣ ਸਿੱਖ ਆਖਦੇ ਹਨ- ਜੋ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਵਰਤਾਇਆ ਹੈ, ਹੁਣ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਏਹੁ ਰੀਤਾਂ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਦੀਆਂ ਨਾ ਕਰਿਆ ਕਰੋ. ਸੱਚੇ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਵੈ. ਤਾਂ ਬਚਨ ਹੋਇਆ, ਖਾਸ ਦਸਤਖਤ ਹੋਏ- ਭੱਦਨ (ਭਦ੍ਰ) ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਨਾ, ਹੋਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਤੂਤ ਜੈਸੀ ਦੇਸਚਾਲ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਿਵੈ ਕਰਕੈ ਬਖਸਾਇ ਲੈਣਾ. (ਸ) ਸੱਚੇ ਪਾਤਸਾਹੁ! ਸਮੇ ਵਿਵਾਹ ਅਤੇ ਖਿਆਹ ਸਰਾਧ ਦੇ ਦਿਨ ਅਸੀਂ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਭੋਜਨ ਕਰਾਂਵਦੇ ਹੈਸਾਂ, ਹੁਣ ਸਿੱਖ ਆਖਦੇ ਹਨ, ਜੋ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਛਕਾਵਣਾ. ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਇਆ- ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਭੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਭੀ ਅਤਿਥਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਭਲੀ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਕਰਕੈ ਸਭਸ ਨੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦ ਛਕਾਇਆ ਕਰੋ. (ਹ) ਸੱਚੇ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ! ਵਖਤ ਜੰਞੂ ਪਾਵਣੇ ਦੇ ਅਸੀਂ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਨੂੰ ਉਸਤਰੇ ਨਾਲ ਭਦ੍ਰ ਕਰਾਂਵਦੇ ਸਾਂ, ਹੁਣ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਿਵੈ ਕੀਚੈ. ਹੁਕਮ ਤੇ ਖਾਸ ਦਸਤਖਤ ਹੋਏ- ਜੋ ਸਹਜਧਾਰੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਬੇਟਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਦੇਣੀ. (ਕ) ਸੱਚੇ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ! ਅੱਗੇ ਅਸੀਂ ਅਸਥੀਆਂ ਗੰਗਾ ਭੇਜਦੇ ਸਾਂ ਹੁਣ ਸਿੱਖ ਮਨੇ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਜਿਵੇ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਵੈ. ਬਚਨ ਤੇ ਖਾਸ ਦਸਤਖਤ ਹੋਏ- ਜੇ ਪਹੁਚਾਇ ਸਕੋਂ ਤਾਂ ਅਸਤੀਆਂ ਪਹੁਚਾਇ ਦੇਣੀਆਂ ਅਰ ਜੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਜੁੱਧ ਵਿੱਚ ਜਿੱਥੇ ਹੁਕਮਸਤਿ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਸੋਈ ਕੁਰੁਛੇਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ. ਇਕੇ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਕੀ ਚਰਣਧੂਰਿ ਵਿੱਚ ਪਾਇ ਦੇਣੀਆਂ, ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਚੌਫੇਰੇ, ਏਸੇ ਥਾਂ ਓਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਵੈਗੀ. (ਖ) ਅਸੀਂ ਜੋ ਆਮਿਲ ਪੇਸ਼ਾ ਕਚਹਿਰੀਆਂ ਜਾਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਦਾੜੀਆਂ ਕੇਸ ਇੱਕੋ ਜੇਹੇ ਕੈਂਚੀਆਂ ਨਾਲ ਕਟਵਾਇ ਲੈਂਦੇ ਸਾਂ, ਹੁਣ ਜਿਵੈ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਿਵੈਂ ਕਰੀਏ. ਹੁਕਮ ਤੇ ਖਾਸ ਦਸਤਖਤ ਹੋਏ- ਜੇਹੜੇ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਸਹਜਧਾਰੀ ਸਿੱਖ ਹੋਂ, ਜੇ ਕੇਸਧਾਰੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਤਰਾਂ ਸਾਬਤ ਰੱਖੋਂ ਤਾਂ ਭਲਾ ਹੈ, ਨਹੀਂ ਤਾਂ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਜਰੂਰ- ਮਾਤ੍ਰ ਵਧੀਕ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੋ ਬਰਾਬਰ ਕਰਵਾਇ ਛੱਡਣੇ, ਫੇਰ ਬਖਸਾਇ ਲੈਣਾ. ਜੋ ਕੇਸਧਾਰੀ ਇਹ ਕਰਮ ਕਰੈਗਾ, ਓਹ ਸਿੱਖ ਨਹੀਂ. (ਗ) ਸੱਚੇ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ! ਜੋ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਸਿਰਗੁੰਮਾ ਪੰਜਾਂ ਮੇਲਾਂ ਦੇ ਮੁਹ ਕੋਈ ਲੱਗੈ ਨਹੀਂ. ਜੇ ਕੋਈ ਆਂਵਦਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਮੁਹ ਲਗ ਜਾਵੈ, ਤਾਂ ਕਿਉਂ ਕਰ ਵਚਨ ਹੈ? ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਇਆ- ਰਿਦਾ ਸੁੱਧ ਗੁਰਾਂ ਵੱਲ ਚਾਹੀਦਾ ਹੈ, ਆਂਵਦਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਮੁਹ ਲਗ ਜਾਵੈ, ਤਾਂ ਕੀ ਹੈ? ਵਰਤਣ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਨੀ. (ਘ) ਜੇਹੜੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਗੰਗਾ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਇਸਨਾਨ ਨੂੰ ਗਏ ਹਨ, ਜੋ ਇਸਨਾਨ ਕਰਕੈ ਆਵਨ ਤਾਂ ਕਿਵਕਰ ਵਰਤੀਏ? ਵਚਨ ਹੋਆ- ਹਿਤ ਪਿਆਰ ਨਾਲ ਓਨਾ ਨਾਲ ਵਰਤਣਾ ਬਹੁਤੀ ਦਿੱਕਤ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਰਨੀ ਭਾਈ ਸਿੱਖੋ! ਤੁਸਾਡੇ ਉੱਪਰ ਸਾਡਾ ਏਹ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੈ- ਪੰਜਾਂ ਮੇਲਾਂ ਵਿੱਚੋਂ ਕਿਸੇ ਨਾਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਮਿਲਣਾ, ਕਿਉਂ ਜੋ ਓਨਾ ਦਾ ਮੇਲ ਕਰਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਸਿਦਕ ਘਟਦਾ ਹੈ. ਕੋਈ ਓਨਾਂ ਵਿੱਚੋਂ ਭੀ ਮੇਲ ਕੀਤਾ ਚਾਹੇ, ਸੋ ਮੇਲ ਲੈਣਾ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਦਾ ਉਪਦੇਸ਼ ਦੇਣਾ, ਭਜਨ ਕਰਣਾ, ਧਰਮ ਦੀ ਕਿਰਤ ਕਰਣੀ ਤੇ ਵੰਡ ਖਾਣਾ, ਸਿੱਖ ਦੀ ਰਹਿਰਾਸਿ ਏਹੋ ਹੈ. (ਙ) ਸੱਚੇ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ! ਅੱਗੇ ਜੇ ਕੋਈ ਹੁਕਮਸਤਿ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਸੀ, ਤਾਂ ਅਸੀਂ ਪੰਡਿਤਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਬੁਲਾਇਕੈ ਗਰੁੜਪੁਰਾਣ ਵਚਾਂਵਦੇ ਸਾਂ, ਤੇ ਦਸਗਾਤ੍ਰ ਕਰਾਂਵਦੇ ਸਾਂ, ਤੇ ਹੁਣ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਂਵਦੇ ਕਹਿਁਦੇ ਹੈਨ- ਜੋ ਧਾਗਾ ਤੇ ਲੰਗੋਟ ਰੱਖੋ ਤੇ ਦਸਗਾਤ੍ਰ ਕਰੋ ਤਾਂ ਅਸੀਂ ਆਵਨੇ ਹਾਂ, ਜਿਵੇਂ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਿਵੈ ਕੀਚੈ. ਵਚਨ ਤੇ ਦਸਤਖਤ ਹੋਏ- ਤੁਸਾਂ ਸਿਦਕ ਤੇ ਤਕੜੇ ਰਹਿਣਾ, ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ ਦਾ ਭੋਗ ਪਵਾਣਾ ਤੇ ਪੰਜਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਸਹਸਕ੍ਰਿਤੀ ਸਲੋਕਾਂ ਦੀ ਕਥਾ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਥੀਂ ਸੁਣਨੀ. ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਦਾ ਭੀ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਜੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਵਾਸਾ ਹੋਵੈਗਾ, ਤੇ ਤੁਸਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਭੀ ਗਿਆਨ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੋਵੈਗਾ. ਸਿਦਕ ਜੇਹਾ ਤੇ ਨਾਮ ਜੇਹਾ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਕੋਈ ਨਹੀਂ. ¹ਖੰਡੇ ਦਾ ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਛਕਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਕੇਸਧਾਰੀ ਸਿੰਘ. // 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 I have book on rehtinamas, there is a bit on sehajdharis, i ll try to scan this specific bit and post it up..then we can discuss further on this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Please remember to either translate it or comment upon it in english so that abdus salam and others can know what we are talking about. Abdus Salam: Yes i will do so in a few hours. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Translation by Trilochan Singh ji in the book Turban and Sword of the Sikhs,- Essence of Sikhism. I believe there is a translation by mcleod as well in the "Sikhs of the Khalsa". Seventh Question: We sehajdharis, o True Lord, trim our beards according to mughal style when some of us have to attend the mughal court, or clerical duties in mughal court. What shall we do now? Guru Gobind Singh answered: Yes, you who are sehajdharis should now grow a full beard, just as the Khalsa sikhs keep, but if there is official compulsion, you may comply with the orders of your rulers. But when you go to saadh sangat(holy congresion in Gurdwara etc) an wish to participate in their activities, offer Ardasa(personal prayer) and seek forgiveness for this transgresion. i will try to post the translation by mcleod when my friend has returned the book 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 the answer to the next question i just love i want to share it with you. O true Lord, there are some sehajdharis sikhs who go on pilgrimages to Ganges, how should we deal with them when they come back? Guru Gobind Singh answered: Deal with them with understanding, compassion and love. Do not cause any embarrament to them.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Thanks Amardeep. A few points: 1 - Please explain why the 10th Master would go against the Khalsa who told SD not to use Brahmans for weddngs, and instead say "ask them to perform the Sikh marriage, then follow it up by calling and asking the Brahmans to also conduct a marriage ceremony"? 2 - How do you explain 10th Master classing Muslims as Siragums (atheists)? 3 - The point you have highlighted re giving the Sd's permission to trim beards, appears to contraditct an earlier answer by Maharaj (Q3) where Maharaj sides with the Khalsa and tells the SDs not to follow others mistaken customs or copy others around them and 'not shave their head'. Cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 as i have not done any khoj on this maryada i do not wish to answer your questions as i am nothing but an ignorant fool, but please remember that it is possible to give contradicting views to to different people without contradicting oneself.. for instance, i can allow my oldest son to go out at night, and forbid my youngest to go out. i have not contradicted myself, as my order was given to two different persons..... had i told the same son to go out, and also forbid him to go out, then yes i would have contradicted myself. same goes for kesh and the issue of brahmans... Maharaj might have said one thing to sehajdharis who were still partially hindues, and another to Khalsa's who were 100% sikhs who had abonded their earlier beliefs and religion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Amardeep ji, your example is irrelevant here, we are talking about Maharaj giving 2 supposedly contradicting orders to the same son (SD). Plus I want to know your (and your Ustaads) take on the Siragum question. Plus another question: Although Q3 and 5 talks about 2 different ceremonies - death and Janeu, both involve shaving of the head. Maharaj makes his position on shaving heads absolutely clear in Q3, then why do the SDs ask the same question again (Q5)? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 The word Sehajdhari - adoption by stages gives a clue to the meaning and position of Sehajdharis in the Panth. Sehajdharis were those who came from a non-Sikh background who were moving towards taking Amrit at some later stage. The reason for this interpretation is that if you believe as all Sikhs should that all the ten Gurus were one light then it makes it impossible for someone to following 9 Gurus and not the 10th as well. I know a few people who have come to Sikhi from non-Sikh backgrounds and they took Amrit after they had first started to live their lives according to the rehat. They read Bani, listened to Kirtan, started to follow Nitnem routine and as a consequence started to stop cutting their hair. And then finally they took Amrit. This is what a Sehajdari should be, there is no time limit on how long them should take on each stage but it is important that it is understood that taking Amrit is then what transform them into Sikhs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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