The Bhatts (or Bhatrai Sikhs)

[shaheediyan]

Fascinating website. I didn't know much of this.

http://www.bhatra.co.uk/

[username]

they syaing they are Bhats as in the Guru Granth Sahib. me went to one of their weddings. eyes opened so wide they nearly fell out. beadbi major style.

[SAadmin]

chatanga veer ji,

can you please shed more light on the beadhi you seen in one of their wedding?

thanks in advance.

[username]

yeh first of all my friend never invited me knowing what im like.then when pressed for an invite he would not let us on the coach to nottingham. then we just went on the coach after he left. me and my frind could beleive what they started doing.

they opened up bacardi and whisky-shisky and started drinking major style. when we arrived at the gurdwara some were drunk and they had to be put in a room in the gurdwara to sleep off the drink. i saw a man go to the toilet and come back out with a large damp patch in his trousers and he either couldn t open his zip, or just urniatd over his clothes .

i saw the granthi looking very smart in his kurta-pjama with his kirpan over the top of it. this very same granthi was knocking back shorts in the club after.

anyways me and my friend ws hungry so we tried to get some food. there was only bacon and egss there. now me was not veggie then but asked for non-veg food as it seemed weird to eat bacon and eggs in the gurdwara. took about 10 mins to get some veg food.

then the gurdwara event fininshed and all went to the party. the grooms grandad after the party on the way home started talking on the microfone on the coach. he started by " wjkk, wjkf " then he goes " eh sare loki bhen admin cut heh ..."

when i got home at 11 o clock at night, i wondered whether i would wake up the following morning thinking this was all a dream.

and another that has always stuck wiv me is they had a big picture of Sant-Sipahi Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale in the langar hall.

[shaheediyan]

Notts Gurdwara is known for its full English breakfast, but I think this isn't representative of the other 30 odd Gurdwarai in the UK, may be someone else could enlighten.

Re the rest of the wedding, sounds like a normal Punjabi wedding to me.

[username]

i certainly hope it aint represnetative of the other gurdwaras. i asked my firned brother when he got married did they do all that stuff, and he sed "yeh , whats wrong wiv it..."

[Mithr]

The Bhattras are not the same as the Bhatts.

Bhatts are Brahman by caste while the Bhattras are not.

[ipledgeblue]

yeh first of all my friend never invited me knowing what im like.then when pressed for an invite he would not let us on the coach to nottingham. then we just went on the coach after he left. me and my frind could beleive what they started doing.

they opened up bacardi and whisky-shisky and started drinking major style. when we arrived at the gurdwara some were drunk and they had to be put in a room in the gurdwara to sleep off the drink. i saw a man go to the toilet and come back out with a large damp patch in his trousers and he either couldn t open his zip, or just urniatd over his clothes .

i saw the granthi looking very smart in his kurta-pjama with his kirpan over the top of it. this very same granthi was knocking back shorts in the club after.

anyways me and my friend ws hungry so we tried to get some food. there was only bacon and egss there. now me was not veggie then but asked for non-veg food as it seemed weird to eat bacon and eggs in the gurdwara. took about 10 mins to get some veg food.

then the gurdwara event fininshed and all went to the party. the grooms grandad after the party on the way home started talking on the microfone on the coach. he started by " wjkk, wjkf " then he goes " eh sare loki bhen admin cut heh ..."

when i got home at 11 o clock at night, i wondered whether i would wake up the following morning thinking this was all a dream.

and another that has always stuck wiv me is they had a big picture of Sant-Sipahi Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale in the langar hall.

so where in the panth do bhatrey fit in, do they fit into sanatan because they are there since Guru Nanak Dev Jis time, or maybe they have been SGPCfied which is difficult to believe with the full english breakfast and drinking amirt-shuk giani, but then there's the Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale picture.

Seriously, where do they fit in? :shock:

oh yeah and another thing, they exist since Guru nanak's time, so I need an explanation, is meat allowed in some non-SGPC langars, because I have heard of meat being served even in the Gurus times, but I do not know.

Also is it true most bhatrey live in a certain area in the uk, but forgot where it was.

Also I got respect for bhatras, they marry their kids off at a good age, not like kids these days gettin upto no good and doing lafungpuna.

[gsinghysingh]

I come from the batra community, and all this bedbi is correct in a few gurdwara here and there but not in all. bhatra are stereotyped by fanatic jatts. but dont put down a whole community because of a handfull of fools.

The same goes for are community, the jatts are seen as lufanga and there women lufungia, but this is not true its a stereotype.

all these castes and sampardayee are ridiculous to me. The panth is in a real state at the moment, lets get together and be proper sikhs who are blinded to discrimination to others.

[SURYADEV]

Gsinghysingh

What do you mean by "be proper sikhs"? Maybe the way sikhs exist now is how they have always been and is its normal state?!

[Amrikingh]

bhatra's love having there drink of alcohol before entering the gurdwara

i've seen this many times, as i've performed at there wedding functions

[Mithr]

I know plenty of Jats that also like to have a drink before entering a Gurdwara. So Jats are not different in this regard.

All JaatPaats have their goods and bads. But better than Punjabi Sikhs are the Sikhs of Jammu and Kashmir. Those guys are real Sikhs as compared to us Punjabi Sikhs who have largely disowned our Guru's ways and teachings.

[shaheediyan]

Jammu/Kashmir Sikhs are changing too Mithr. The current parental generation there is obsesed with making money whilst the youth are seriously no different to western youth, Sikhi is dying there too.

It is true that they are still strict adherants of kesh, and those kids that cut them, get serious beatings and loose respect, but kes are no good without education and dharm, which many of these youth today are not interested in.

[gsinghysingh]

jattboot i mean try n live the way the gurus told us instead of using caste distinction.

[ipledgeblue]

you are not authentic bhatra sikh, u r influenced by sgpc sikhi loool

[gsinghysingh]

londondajatt, then lets presume that non sgpc influenced sikhs are hazoori sikhs (witch they are). We are the cloosest thing to hazoori sikhs outside of india. we keep it puritan, but influenced sgpc british sikhs keep on crapping on us. Plp like akj sikhs and there non khasla traditions.

Ps, you cant really be giving advice on sikhi when you put jatt on your username. I thought sikhs dont believe in caste system.

[shaheediyan]

"We are the cloosest thing to hazoori sikhs outside of india. we keep it puritan, but influenced sgpc british sikhs keep on crapping on us."

gsinghysingh Ji, could you expand on this please.

[ipledgeblue]

you cant really be giving advice on sikhi when you put jatt on your username. I thought sikhs dont believe in caste system.

Again, the preaching about not using caste like this to me seems to be teaching of SGPC, whereas I don;t think hazoori or nihang sikhs or any other sampradaiye would be worried at all.

Of course there are other reasons sikhs go on about castes.

[shaheediyan]

Pride in jaat is a low level intelligence and social illness, one which the holy shudrai Bhagat of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji fought against in medieval India.

In actual fact the open use of jaati/gothra is a British influenced condition, one which they created in every country they conquered through their racial/tribal/social cataloguing obsession.

[Mithr]

shaheediyan is right. People feeling nationistic towards their Jaat is all influance of the colonialists. The British would set one Jaat against another trying to divide a people.

[Niranjana]

"londondajatt, then lets presume that non sgpc influenced sikhs are hazoori sikhs (witch they are). We are the cloosest thing to hazoori sikhs outside of india. we keep it puritan, but influenced sgpc british sikhs keep on crapping on us. Plp like akj sikhs and there non khasla traditions"

gsinghysingh, you indicate that you are based in Britain, yet you seem to struggle with even the basics of the language (surely you mean 'which' and not 'witch' and 'their' rather than 'there' and all this while you are on a rant about maintaining so called 'traditions'.

Could you please for sake of clarity give a definition of the term "Hazoori Singh" - this term can mean three different things, would be interested to read your clarification on the use of the term here.

Moreover, you make reference to "influenced sgpc british sikhs" (surely you mean "British influenced SGPC Sikhs" but anyhow, we have established that grammar doesn't matter to 'Puratin' Sikhs since even their favourite website fails to distinguish between the use of the pre-cursor 'non' and the word 'none') and then go on in the same context to mention the AKJ.

Last time I check, the AKJ themselves have issues with the SGPC (over the usual shenanigans about dress codes for women and that old favourite topic ‘meat’), perhaps you could also comment about the British-influence on the groups who you no doubt deem to be ‘puratin’, in particular the Nihangs and Nirmalas – a tad bit of honest research in which you make an effort to avoid things such as the ‘confirmation bias’ and ‘ludic fallacy’ may go someway in clearing up a lot of the mess that gets touted on Sikh websites in the name of so-called ‘scholarship’.

[ipledgeblue]

Pride in jaat is a low level intelligence and social illness, one which the holy shudrai Bhagat of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji fought against in medieval India.

In actual fact the open use of jaati/gothra is a British influenced condition, one which they created in every country they conquered through their racial/tribal/social cataloguing obsession.

well this also then includes the sikh label, its only in british times and their consensues plus tribal menatlity that made people say they belong to the sikh group or religion, where before it wasn't important and not all followers called themselves sikhs.

[shaheediyan]

There is some truth as to the label of Sikh being used by some groups today to indicate superiority over others, the 18thC ithihaas are evidence enough of the identity of "Sikh" being a reality - and the rehits of the 18th C providing rules for the Sikhs (of that recongnisable identity) to follow.

As wrong as it may seem, being proud of ones Sikh and therefore "God" heritage (for the right reasons) is not comparable to low level pride in jaat - it is this exact pride in the mahaan shaheediyan of Sri-Guru Arjun Dev Ji and Sri-Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji that gave thousands of Sikhs the spirit and will to follow in their footsteps.

On the other hand, pride in jaat (esp in western countries) serves zero purpose.

[ipledgeblue]

There is some truth as to the label of Sikh being used by some groups today to indicate superiority over others, the 18thC ithihaas are evidence enough of the identity of "Sikh" being a reality - and the rehits of the 18th C providing rules for the Sikhs (of that recongnisable identity) to follow.

As wrong as it may seem, being proud of ones Sikh and therefore "God" heritage (for the right reasons) is not comparable to low level pride in jaat - it is this exact pride in the mahaan shaheediyan of Sri-Guru Arjun Dev Ji and Sri-Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji that gave thousands of Sikhs the spirit and will to follow in their footsteps.

On the other hand, pride in jaat (esp in western countries) serves zero purpose.

so you would agree it is ok to have pride in ones heritage, or would just seem as pride of ones jaat? For example may i have pride in my jatt heritage, including warriors shaheeds and kings, or am i not allowed to? lol

[shaheediyan]

You are allowed to believe in whatever poppycock you like.

I take my guidance from God, not disillusioned tribesmen.

ਜਾਣਹੁ ਜੋਤਿ ਨ ਪੂਛਹੁ ਜਾਤੀ ਆਗੈ ਜਾਤਿ ਨ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

And if you bother to do some independant research, you may find your heritage is not as 'Jatt' as you think (if you have time to waste on this nonsense topic).