Silence Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Before I start, I just want to say my knowledge on dasam granth and sarbloh granth is highly limited, so sorry if my questions seem basic. Firstly, I will always believe that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj alone is my Guru, he is completley independent for me, however as far as I understand Nihangs believe that the Guru is Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth, is this correct? Second question, about doing parkash, when nihangs do parkash of all three, are the two Granth Jis kept on the same level as Guru Granth Sahib Ji? Must parkash of all be done to be considered Guru? Also, if only all three are the guru, how come nihang amrit sanchar can be done with only dasam granth and guru granth sahib ji? What I'm really confused over most is, is Sarbloh Granth actually supposed to be kept parkash or is it meant to be kept secret. The sarbloh site first said one of these, then said the other :S lol. If it is kept secret, then for nihangs doenst that mean that they never have what they believe as Guru Sahib fully parkash. Finally, is it true that dasam granth bir ras goes away after a while but sarbloh granth bir ras stays permantently? Then why not just read sarbloh granth?? thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbreakable Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 .. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Nihang Singhs believe the three granths to be Dhur kee bani, Bani Guru Guru Hai bani, hence three texts are parkash along side each other. Ample references to Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji being parkash along side each other. Not so many regarding sarbloh granth, as far as I know references can be found in oral history of nihang singhs and of singhs from hazoor sahib. Theres also sants influenced by nirmala harkohwal mahapursh who are consturctiing new gurdware where they are to have three granths parkash. Its not solely a nihang singh belief. What exactly is it that you believe to be your Guru? A granth given the title Guru? Certain selected poetry? The bani of the Gurus? Was the bani of some Gurus more divine than others? The reason I ask is that your post suggests you do not acknowledge Dasam bani as gurbani. Was Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji independant of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji? yes/no - does that make him more/less special? If mool mantr is the mantr sent by Parmeshar then why do we still have to do gurmantr? Point of the questions being - if one sees everything linear and fail to explore any possibilities outside of their comfort zone they are bound to be constantly plagued by questions. Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib is revered by every Sikh as guru, arguable the instutions that beMost Nihang Singh gurdware have only adi sri guru granth sahib ji parkash, its pretty much the mains ones that have the 3 granths. Best to get intouch with admin on sarbloh site and ask them to clarify. As for the rest, after getting sanithiya of Adi maharaj, and dasam maharaj you can study from an ustad sri sarbloh parkash and see for yourself. Theres a few people who you can learn santhiya from, fewer you can learn arth from, and even fewer you can learn traditions associated with it from. May maharaj to kirpa and spread the vidiya. Problem is most people cant be arsed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 someone correct me if im wrong but I believe also read by Namdharis? You tend to find most people/organisations that believe in dasam maharajs bani also believe in the bani of sri sarbloh parkash. knowledge of it is pretty limited, despite their being a steek available and audio recordings of katha. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbreakable Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 .. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatehsingh Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Yes. confirmed. Namdharis also treat all authentic Banis of Gurus equally. Also another Bani that is given special affection is Vaars of Bhai Gurdas as it has blessings of Guru Hargobind Sahibji. We don't believe in the added Vaar of the premi Gurdas II however. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Apologies, unbreakable I opened the post reply box and didnt refresh the page at the time of my writing I had not seen the post, hence not in relation to your post. I have never come across any reference to sri guru gobind singh saying three granths were guru.But the place where Adi Sri Granth sahib ji was given gurgaddi one also sees parkash of three granths. the issue of whether dasam sri guru granth sahib ji should be parkash along side adi guru granth sahib ji was settles by Shaheed Bhai Mehtab Singh when the killed Mussa Ranger and brought his head back to the Khalsa. Bansavleenama is probably the best reference to dasam granth being considered as Guru. I havent come across any written references to sri sarbloh parkash. There are a couple of shrines near Hazoor SAhib related to the writing of Sri Sarbloh Parkash. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Fateh Singh, do Namdhari's consider Sri Sarbloh Granth as "authentic bani"? Does Baba Jagjit Singh have a view on this? The reason that there is no reference to Dasam Patshah mentioning a trinity of Granths is simply because they didn't compile the Sri Dasam and Sri Sarbloh Granths. The Granths were complied by Bhai Mani Singh Ji (Dasam)and possibly by Udasin (Sarbloh), as and when 10th Masters seperate(d) works were collected. It is therefore the Panth that gave Guru status to Sri Dasam Granth and Nihangs (in whose possesion (largely) Granth Sahib remained until late) who gave Guru status to Sri Sarbloh Granth. This does not demote the status of 10th Masters Granths in anyway - as 10th Master gave Guru status to the Panth - who brought this decision and tradition into play. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Posted May 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 just to clarify i do believe that they are all gurbani, i.e. WRITTEN by Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj. However, i believe that Guru Granth Sahib Ji collectively IS Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj, sampooran guru. Sorry if that doesnt make sense, but that is my beleif. Anyway, I don't know what you are talking about comfort zone, i merely clarified my PERSONAL position on the issue and in no way was this post meant to be argumentative. Its not really a case of comfort zone, its just that i have a belief which has been confirmed by experiences which will be kept gupt. Its not allowed for me to consider anyone else as guru because for me it would be disrespectful. Sorry this is something between me and my guru Truth be told, with his kirpa I have been feeling something amazing towards dasam guru sahib's bani (cant explain it), and that is what made those questions crop up. I just want to say that not everyone is in the same position. How can you assume straight away that I am being lazy? Im literally at the toddler stage of dasam patsha's bani, I just wanted to know a few things to get me started. Lets deal with the situation how it is not how it should be. Majority of the youth today like myself only have contact with dasam granth through nitnem banis and have only just about heard about sarbloh granth, so you can't expect every single person to immediatley run off to india to find someone to teach you the whole granth, chances are that even that will be too advanced for them. I am just a stupid person trying to understand traditions of maharaj's panth, if you have the knowledge then you might as well share it with someone asking rather than juge them. Now if someone could kindly answer my pretty simple straightforward, almost yes or no questions about Mahraj's PAVITAR bani, just to get this neech banda started? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbreakable Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 .. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Fateh Singh, could Satguru Jagjit Singh recite Granth Sahib from "ek onkar to athara das bees" by memory? im only asking cos if we were to come to a stage where Dasam Guru had to recite the whole Granth Sahib to Bhai Mani Singh, would Satguru Jagjit Singh be able to do it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Chatanga, please don't start a new topic on this thread, your question is completely unrelated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatehsingh Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Shaheediyan, yes it is. Chatanga, were you able to understand punjabi when it was in the news in the 70's that a blind woman was able to recite the entire Granth Sahib from memorising a sentence every day? Chatanga I wasn't aware of Guru Gobind Singh doing that at all. Where is it written? If it is in Suraj Parkash, please provide the rut and page. it is available online from the rara sahib.com people. if it is in Pracheen Panth Parkash, please scan that page for me. How many days did it take to recite the entire Granth Sahib and had it noted down? Is this in Kesar Singh Chibbar's Gur Bilas Patshahi 10th as it is supposed to use Bhai Mani Singhji as its source? If so please scan the page or copy the text that says so. What a sea of knowledge you are! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 thanks for the compliment Bhai Fateh Singh. You werent aware that at Damdama Sahib Guru Gobind Singh dictated the Granth Sahib to Bhai Mani Singh? unless of course someone has managed to "fabricate this " and get so many people into beleiving it happened. plz if you are able to answer the question. i intend no malice. im just asking a question, and i have worded it so you wouldnt be offended. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Posted May 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 can we please stick to the topic? it appears that everyone seems to go on about respect of these two wonderful granths, but how come nobody knows anything about it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 As far as i am aware, all sampradhas believe in Dasam Granth Sahib ji as Gurbani. and consider it equally the Guru as Guru Granth Sahib ji. I'm guessing here, but I don't think prakash of all 3 has to be done to be considered Guru by nihangs. "Also, if only all three are the guru, how come nihang amrit sanchar can be done with only dasam granth and guru granth sahib ji?" other sampradhas, like damdami taksaal, believe samporran maryada for amrit sanchar involves dasam granth sahib ji along with Guru Granth Sahib ji. just a guess, but perhaps b/c sarbloh bani is not used to make Amrit the scripture is not prakash for that reason? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 Don't forget that Sri Sarbloh Granth was discovered relatively recently, so all Amrit Sanchars before then would not have had it there. Same for Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji, (to state the obvious) until its compilation, Amrit Sanchars would only have had Guru Granth Sahib Ji parkaash. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithr Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 Originally during Amrit Sanchars only Guru Granth Sahib Jee were present. Later on when Bhai Mani Singh Jee compiled Dasam Bani into a single Granth, then that began to be used in Amrit Sanchars as well. Having an extra Granth even though it is Gurbani, can be seen as an innovation. But through out the misl period, the Dasam Granth was always present alongside Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. As Matheen Jee mentioned, Sri Sarboh Granth was discovered recently. This granth came to Punjab during the early 1800s. Who knows maybe one day we might discover even more Dasam Bani which are currently undiscovered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 please see this on the various samprdaya views on Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...ighlight=taksal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 Is it possible that pothis of the Dasam Granth banis were prakash for the original Amrit Sanchaars? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 why would there be the need of the Granth at the original amrit sanchar when Guru Maharaj was already there? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithr Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 why would there be the need of the Granth at the original amrit sanchar when Guru Maharaj was already there? Good point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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