Jump to content

Naam Dhridh


Recommended Posts

An interesting discussion on Naam Dhridh happening here: http://www.tapoban.org/forum/read.php?1,4100

Supposedly, everyone from every sampradha and jatha has received Amrit which is incomplete, and we must go get Naam Dhridh from the AKJ (or one of several other jathas) to get the required naam drirdh which only they give that even bhramgiani are unaware of....

Apparently the unbroken lineages have all dropped the ball on this puratan rahit but a brand new jatha picked it up on only the second bounce and is carrying it for the Khalsa Panth

Let me know your thoughts

Link to comment
Share on other sites

AKJ are simply refernig to the breathing simran technique that is taught by their jatha's Panj Pyare as standard. It is true that the technique is not taught durnig amrit sanchaar 'as standard practice' by other Sikh groups.

However, that it is puratan Khalsa rehit is matter of further research - and the technique was and still is taught widely in various Sikh cricles in anycase, so is not exclusive to AKJ. It is simply one technique of many.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Naam Dhridh from the AKJ (or one of several other jathas) to get the required naam drirdh"

My comments are as follows:

1. The very term "naam dhrir" is a misnomer. This is us (i.e. the person) that needs to undergo "dhrir" not 'naam', which Gurbani teaches such is beyond perfection.

2. The AKJ (Tapoban in particular) love to use the caveat "one of several other jathas", however who are these 'others' who also part the 'naam dhrir' in the same manner as the AKJ? Once identified, would be interesting to look at the implications...

3. The method of imparting naam by the AKJ claimed to be some authentic gurmaryada involves hyperventilation which is taught during their amrit sanchars by one member of the Punj Pyare effectively bear hugging the neophyte (so that their stomachs make contact) and showing them the 'correct' manner in which to breathe - those familiar with certain Hindu Tantrik traditions may begin to similarities here, however rest assured the AKJ are not a Hindu revivalist sect. To clear any doubts, only male Punj Pyare will 'demonstrate' the technique to male neophyte - as the AKJ do not have the hang-ups over female Punj Pyare (unlike other 'puratan' sampradhas like the DDT), they can accomodate the physical contact aspect of their tradition without too much concern (so much so, that many AKJ female neophytes wish to be allowed to wear bana without a pyjama like their male brothers in arms, all in the name of 'equality' - Tapoban has several discussions on this front for those who are interested).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Fateh Darshan!

Isn't 'NAM DHRIR' technique or 'sas gras' or 'sas sas' or any other technique just a form of PRANAYAM of Patanjali's Yog Sutr - as used by Pandit Jagjit SIngh Ji and other people of other sampardas?

And in the name of equality and equal opportunity can a guy do this technique with a girl?? (If so, where do I sign to join up?LOL soz I just had to ask.Me and my lustful thoughts!)

As an aside, when I was attending AKJ ren sabhais as a kid I saw this happen for the first time, and the shock.....! Almost a frightning experience to watch and listen to it for an outsider.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The naam dhrir technique of imparting the method of meditation is not widespread, although others are aware of it they do not seem to agree with it. The method of simran taught during this is widespread and unanimously seen as a legitimate technique of simran. Although it seems that most groups don't see it as THE technique as the AKJ seem to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The hugging is not actually done by panj pyareh but after takin amrit by a sevadaar, its more of a welcoming to the panth im guessing. Tapoban Singhs aint to hell bent on the idea that only AKJ give naam and other jathas dont it seems. Its usually the AKJ youth that tend to think only AKJ amrit sanchars are the real ones.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

As far as I know, most Mahapursh don't do Simran in the 'AKJ' saas-girass method. In Sampardas, Saas-girass is usually done quietly and peacefully.

Of course people can express their love for and remember Waheguru in many different ways. All forms of Har-Jas are good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I assure you most Mahapursh don't do Simran in the 'AKJ' saas-girass method. In Sampardas, Saas-girass is usually done quietly and peacefully.

The technique is the same. The only difference is that Sant Mahpursh do it quietly with Shaanti while AKJ do it loudly with Josh. But technique is the same. The only difference is the volume.

It's sort of like how Naqshbandi Sufis preffer to do Zikr quietly while Qadiri Sufis like doing it loudly with Josh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I know Namdharis don't question authenticity of Gurbani in the Sri Adi Granth Sahib like bhasaurhia group is infamous for and from what I understand AKJ has no formal ties to Bhasaurhia group either, I could be wrong on this however. Teja Singh was also one of the primary anti-living-Guru leaders who was instrumental in getting Bhai Kahn Singh to give up his ancestorial belief in Baba Ajapal Singh being Guru Gobind Singh, which is taking away from Namdhari beliefs instead of gleaning from. So to equate Teja Singh's beliefs with Namdharis' is baseless. Someone's reading too much shastarvidya.com or whatever that site's name is.

I don't know what kind of Simran techniques AKJ group uses but it is dumb to criticize anyone's method of prayer or meditation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is an example of AKJ style simran: (please note that I think all forms of bhagti are good)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SPOFN749JHw&...feature=related

Although this type of Simran is very prevelent in AKJ now, but many hardcore AKJers like the Tapoban Jatha actually do not support this type of Simran since it is not in accordance to the technique tought during the AKJ Amrit Samagam and it is also against Kirtan Maryadha. I remember Singhs on the Tapoban forum writing not too long ago that when doing Simran, an AKJ Sikh should not swing his/her head from side to side as shown in that video since that is not in accordance to the technique tought by the Panj Pyaras. Although I don't have the link but I also remember reading that Simran should ideally be done Gupt instead of out in the open like the people doing in that video.

So in conclusion I don't think that is AKJ simran as tought by AKJ Panj Pyaaras.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do not base my claims on any websites but on my own personal research and verification so get your facts right.

Valli Singh Jee, I have read many of Bhai Randhir Singh Jee's books, and although I am not AKJ Sikh but I certainly respect him for his love for rehet, gurbani, simran, kirtan. You write that he was a Bhasouria based on what source? I'm aware that he like many people of the Malwa region were part of the Bhasour movement BEFORE their anti-Gurmat views started, but like most people of Malwa he also left them when they started taking anti Gurmat stances on issues like opposing Bhagat Bani, Dasam Bani and promoting Padshed of Gurbani etc.

To say that Bhai Randhir Singh was a life long Bhasouris is really either misleading or sheer ignorance. I might have beleived you if I myself had not read his Punjabi books where he himself condemns the Bhasours for their anti Gurmat stances.

But as you pointed out AKJ and Namdharis do have many things in common. Both are known for kirtan, that’s how the Namdharis got their name of "kukay", and AKJ means Akhand Kirtani Jatha. Both have the same technique of doing Simran and both keep the Gurmantar Gupt (although everyone in the Panth knows what the Gurmantar is, so it’s not really so Gupt). Like the hardcore AKJers, the early Namdharis were also Bibekis, as Ganda Singh pointed out that a Namdharis will only eat from a Namdharis due to their sharing of rehet. Both Namdharis and AKJers are fanatical vegetarians. Both groups put emphasis on their respective Banas. Both AKJ and Namdharis put emphesis on having a simple casteless marriage. Plus both Baba Ram Singh Jee and Bhai Randhir Singh Jee were from Ludhiana. Both Baba Ram Singh Jee and Bhai Randhir Singh Jee were imprisoned by the British. Maybe Fateh Singh Jee can correct me if I made a mistake on any of these points about Namdharis.

Although I'm not really sure but I've heard from a friend that the early Namdharis also held Sarbloh in importance as AKJ do, is that true Fateh Singh?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mithar that is true about Namdhari Maryada requiring Bibeki. In the olden days before there were Stainless Steel utensils, Sarabh Loh was given preference.

With regards to Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha's family history, his great grand father was a Sewak of Baba Ajapal Singh and his father also wrote a book about all the details of Baba Ajapal Singh, or as they called him "Guru Singhji". Translation of Bhai Kahn Singh's own written article about Baba Ajapal Singh is on the http://namdhari.faithweb.com website under 'Nander 1708 link'. It was also posted on this forum by someone a while back if I'm not mistaken. It is a common knowledge, even that shastarvidya.com site agrees, that Bhai Kahn Singh was of the same beliefs as his ancestors who served Guru Singhji that Baba Ajapal Singh and Guru Gobind Singh were one and the same until his persecution by Teja Singh and the likes.

Nevertheless, this is all besides the point and topic of this thread and apparently valli singh, who I originally posted to counter his point, is obviously too arrogant to acknowledge that like most people here he has 0% knowledge about Namdharis other than what he has read from outdated anti-Namdhari books and probably never went to a single Namdhari Samagam in Bhaini Sahib. So without wasting any more time, as always if someone has something to say, kindly feel free to pm me, otherwise let's abide by the Guru's Hukam in the Sri Adi Granth Sahib: "Sarvar Hans Dhure Hi Mela, Khasme Aivai Bhana" and be thankful to the Satguru.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kahn Singh acknowledged the existence of Baba Ajaipal Singh - and communicated the theory that some think he was 10th Master - the reason he was familiar with this was because his father was Jathedaar of dera 'Baba' Ajaipal Singh in Nabha.

Whilst at Manji Sahib, I saw 2 Jatha bajurg hugging each other performing naam dhrir. Irrelevant of my personal disagreements with the jathas ideology (in some parts) and their lack of evidenced based tradition, it was one of the most beautiful sights I have ever seen. I saw them when I entered and they were still there when I left the Guru Ghar 50 minutes later. There face was full of happiness, longiong and tears... putting aside the mockery by some who were with me, I wish all Singhs could embrace each other with such longing and prem...

Thanks for your wise comments Fateh Singh Ji.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...