Kam1825 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Guru Da Sikh i worte earlier "Are you aware of why the debate on the Dasam Granth never took place, have you spoke to Prof Darshan Singh or Baba Hari SIngh Ji about it? I have, both state they did not take part in the debate due to Vedanti's Hukamnama not to debate on thsi topic. " To which you replied "Why are you making up stories anyway? Why not phone up Bhai Tehal Singh, President of the Gurdwara where this discussion / debate was going to be held, and he will tell you the TRUTH. He was the one who arranged for this to happen and was going to monitor it. He was the one who got up and asked Hari Singh to come back and join the discussion. He was the one who got up on the stage and denounced Hari Singh for stating the Jeonwala was not up to his level." You accuse me of lying do you well what does this video show What do they say within the opening minute. And as you can see in the video Sant Hari Singh Ji are still there along with Sant Baljinder Singh Ji of Rara Sahib. Again and again you lie and lie and a video shows the threads of your lies. This debate was lined up and had started but due to the sangat bringing up the Hukamnama BOTH Prof Sahib and Baba Ji stopped the debate as shown If there is any sangat in Canada as BAba Baljinder sIngh Ji are there at present can they be asked about what took place at the location as well 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Inder Singh ji, as you ran away from the other forum , we have another opportunity to discuss Gurmat here. You are the one who slanders bani of tenth master and yet you claim to discuss Gurmat. You are the one who does not believe in sikh rehat maryada and you want to discuss sikh issues. You are the one who slanders naam simran and yet want to discuss Gurmat. You are the one who disown Waheguru as Gurmantra and want to discuss Gurmat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 You may be interested in some news item that i saw on IHRO discussion about your Guru kala afghana. http://us.mg203.mail.yahoo.com/dc/launch?....d=bffudaq3h0cpa yes u r right....... . we should prepare ourself against these rss activities to protect our sikhism --- On Sat, 13/6/09, B.S.Goraya <kartarpursahib@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote: From: B.S.Goraya <kartarpursahib@ yahoo.co. uk> Subject: [iHRO] Even the touts feel shy to buy Mohali paper To: sikhs_in_the_ bay_area@ yahoogroups. com, SikhSangat@yahoogro ups.com, sikhstudents@ yahoogroups. com, sikhupdates@ yahoogroups. com, SikhWomen@yahoogrou ps.com, SikhYouthRetreat200 1@yahoogroups. com, Southall_Sikhs@ yahoogroups. com, summerreligion@ yahoogroups. com, TorontoSikhCoalitio n@yahoogroups. com, UCLASSA@yahoogroups .com, UnitedNaujawans@ yahoogroups. com, WorldSikhs@yahoogro ups.com, yorksikhs@yahoogrou ps.com, sikh-youth@yahoogro ups.com, sanjha_punjab@ yahoogroups. com, sikhstudent@ yahoogroups. com, Sikh@yahoogroups. com, sikhsincalifornia@ yahoogroups. com, californiasikhs@ yahoogroups. com, SikhAtlantaDe@ yahoogroups. com, sikhism@yahoogroups .com, punj-aab@yahoogroup s.com, khalsacollegedelhi@ yahoogroups. com, SikhsSydney@ yahoogroups. com, iigs-family@ yahoogroups. com, kirtancentraluk@ yahoogroups. com, learning-zone@ yahoogroups. com, IHRO@yahoogroups. com, issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. .com, WideMinds@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Saturday, 13 June, 2009, 8:17 AM Even the touts feel shy to buy Mohali paper Indian agencies like RSS are working from various angles in their nefarious designs to absorb Sikhism in the Hinduism. They believe if they can finish Budhism from Indian soil where does the tiny Sikhism stand? These stupid and rogues don't understand that what they are attempting, is in 21st Century and that too in the presence of advanced IT. Besides there being written word of Guru i.e the pious book Guru Granth Sahib which could be accessed any where in the world while the Budhism had no such document. Guru Nanak was alone but the Sikhs have millions of Guru Nanak in the shape of Guru Granth sahib where his unadulterated message of peace exists. But these scoundrels never stop and they attempt it at the cost of bread to crores of hungry mouths that sleep without food. They are the people who injected violence in the Sikh peaceful movement from 1948 to 1980. It is the same very conspiracy that demolished our religious and historical monuments like the Fort Lohgarh Amritsar, Guru ke Mehal Amritsar, Chamkaur di Garhi, Thanda Burj Sarhind and many other hundreds of archaeologically important monuments. Because the otherwise most brave community of Sikhs are simple minded and the scoundrels infiltrates in their organizations and sabotage from within. It was part of the same very design that recently a Hindu sat on the seat of Guru Granth sahib and there were security men to protect him. Their aim was to demoralize the Sikhs. They don't know that this has been happening right from the days of Guru Nanak patshah and we reply at the appropriate time through our peaceful means. Every community has black sheep and so are there the so called Sikhs who are ready to harm their own house for the sake of a few Rupees. We call them touts. It was part of this very design that ex CID men like Kala Afghana were projected to create confusion among the Sikhs. We congratulate the Khalsa Panth the way they thwarted moves of Kale and Peeley pilley of RSS. They were the people who challenged the very basic worship of Sikhs i.e nitnem the daily prayers of Sikhs and they propagated that Jaap sahib, Sawaiye and Chaupie sahib be excluded from Nitnem. Their whole idea was to confuse Sikhs because a confused person can be easily converted to the other thought. It was part of that very game plan that the agencies saw that the touts launch a newspaper from Mohali. They pumped crores of rupees in this project. The voluminous paper entered the media market with a bang. It would openly abuse Sikh tenets. It never felt shy of ridiculing the Five Kakkars of Sikhism. Like on this 7-6-09 it published a news making a mockery of a Sikh house that has preserved the pious historical shoes of Guru Hargobind sahib at Jorha Sahib Gurdwara Sudhar Ludhiana. Yesterday my newspaper hawker came to get payment for May month. A senior hawker, he would give me updates on newspaper circulation numbers. I met him after 6 months. "Sir, Mohali paper has miserably failed, it could not sustain, it has fallen rock bottom the dust of Amritsar, and only about 300 copies are received for Amritsar and suburbs." I took a sigh of relief. My estimate is there are about 10,000 touts in Amritsar and what is surprising even the touts feel shy to buy this paper. Sikhan da Guru barha dhahda ei. The messages can also be seen at (Archives): www.punjabmonitor. com/home/ yahoomessages. htm B.S.Goraya Editor/Moderator: - www.punjabmonitor. com www.kartarpur. com http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/kartarpur/ http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/inderpreet 2000/ Servant:-Sangat Langha Kartarpur 60, Diamond Avenue, Majitha Road, Amritsar Tel: 0091-9417064262( Mobile) 0091-183-2421915( Landline) (Email : bsgoraya@kartarpur. com) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Look you guys i know you lot hav your own beef and have brought it over here, have got anything to post relating to this thread. if you do great, if not take your issues over the PM I am still waiting for Guru Da Sikh to reply to my post earlier, in case he misses it i will post it is again here. Guru Da Sikh i worte earlier "Are you aware of why the debate on the Dasam Granth never took place, have you spoke to Prof Darshan Singh or Baba Hari SIngh Ji about it? I have, both state they did not take part in the debate due to Vedanti's Hukamnama not to debate on thsi topic. " To which you replied "Why are you making up stories anyway? Why not phone up Bhai Tehal Singh, President of the Gurdwara where this discussion / debate was going to be held, and he will tell you the TRUTH. He was the one who arranged for this to happen and was going to monitor it. He was the one who got up and asked Hari Singh to come back and join the discussion. He was the one who got up on the stage and denounced Hari Singh for stating the Jeonwala was not up to his level." You accuse me of lying do you well what does this video show http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iif_6bBvm10...feature=related What do they say within the opening minute. And as you can see in the video Sant Hari Singh Ji are still there along with Sant Baljinder Singh Ji of Rara Sahib. Again and again you lie and lie and a video shows the threads of your lies. This debate was lined up and had started but due to the sangat bringing up the Hukamnama BOTH Prof Sahib and Baba Ji stopped the debate as shown If there is any sangat in Canada as BAba Baljinder sIngh Ji are there at present can they be asked about what took place at the location as well Where have all the Missionaries gone> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 All the posts of tu tu mein mein between randip singh vs only five have been moved to ghup-shup forum. This was done after numerous request to both members to take their issues over the pm, this was not done. So we thought we will move all the tu tu mein mein post for them to ghup shup so the whole forum does not get plagued by their silly fighting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Guru Da Sikh you wrote: //Here is the setting starting in early 1800s to 1960s: Gurudwaras have just been liberated from Mahant Naranu gangs and continued attacks on Sikhs from Nirmlaye & Udassyea. Sikhs just starting to learn about Gurmat Gyan since the only thing that has been preached in Gurdwaras is Bipran ki Reet. Anybody who makes a stand on Gurmat Sidhant and opposes ‘Dasam Granth’ style Mahants gets thrown out of the Panth with a politically motivated Hukamnama. Just like today, the political strength was in the grasp of these Derawadis, Taksalis, ‘Sants’, Mahants, ‘BrahmGyanis’ etc. You really think the ‘Panth’ contaminated with these leeches would have the stomach to digest Anthreev Bhav Arth at that time. If he had done so, he along with his work would have been burned by these Derawadis. So what Prof. Sahib Singh ji did was to do viakraan with key concepts presented with Bhav Arth. Remember, if you read the foreword, he never claimed to be perfect, like you boys do today. // This is getting bit silly, you are claiming prof sahib singh didn't do antriv bhav arths because of presence of samparda as you call it "leeches" very unfortunate and sad you call them leeches but i must remind you when spit at the moon, spit comes back to your face it doesn't reach there. Anyway, I have listening to your claim over and over again- how prof sahib singh was ultimate authority in sikh scriptures, like he is the only one who have spent years creating sri guru granth sahib ji teeka. You may want to wake up and smell the cofee. Have you heard of faridkot teeka by nirmale? work by bhai vir singh?/ Authors of faridkot teeka spent close to 10 years as well creating a teeka of sri guru granth sahib ji. I am sure i ll hear now faridkot teeka was created by bhramins, how credible? with no proof? what a great academic anyalsis. If thats a case one can on a same token accuse of teekakar- prof sahib singh been influenced by victorian values. You seem to sing praises prof sahib singh teeka of sri guru granth sahib ji all day along, yet don't acknowledge many of arths done by prof sahib singh or same beleif prof sahib singh held. You seem to use prof sahib singh, akaal takth sahib maryada for your own conveince and to promote your own half bake gurmat theories. Before criticizing nirmale, what have missionaries have done for fight external threats of the panth? Nirmale contributions to the panth are many, i can write a whole book about it but i ll post some of the contributions and leave others members post both nirmale and udasi contributions in more detail. 1. Nirmale have fought with arya samajis and rss in many debates on many subjects. One such debate was rss claim that khalsa term has to be interpreted through sanskrit. Baba isher singh ji kalyug wale came up with close to 500 arths of khalsa shabad which was not bound by sanskrit and made them realize mahanta of khalsa shabad. 2. Without Nirmale works of suraj parkash, you would be probably relying on victorian influenced sources by mcleod and mcalcum on sikh history. I am sorry i forgot, missionaries don't beleive in history, chronology dates but only sceintific and logical explanation of things, go compare vigyan of western world experts in astronomy, universe with vigyan shared by nirmale, you will find more depth of sceince of human body, universe/multi verse, panj tats than your western vigyanis out there. 3. Missionaries talk about vikyaran/bhav arths in prof sahib singh teeka, you may want to check early life of prof sahib singh, how his teacher learned from no other than nirmale. 4. British anticipated that sikh population would be in hundreds if we kept dividing them and make them with fight each others, Sant attar singh ji of nirmale order single handely did soo much parchar bought millions of punjabis back into sikh fold and crushed british sinister aim. What have missionaries,bhausaria have done for the panth? i 5. If it wasn't for nirmale sants like- sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale who had nirmale leanings and rest of sant mandali, your bhausaria brothers would have taken bhagatda di bani out of sri guru granth sahib ji, replaced ram with Wah and har with Gur in sri guru granth sahib ji and taken out sataie balvandaie var claimin its is not part of gurbani and change ardas from pritham bhagauti simarkaie into satnam simar kai in the panth to satisfy their own insecurity and hindu parnioa. Check out http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showtopic=10112 to read more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaheguruseekr Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 N30 Singh, Guru Fateh. I would like to know why all my posts are missing in this thread? This is sheer discrimination, not a Sikhi way. Is this the way you moderate in this forum while let people QUOTE my posts and you delete mine? Sikhi is not practiced like this. I hope you respond to this post rather than deleting it. Regards Tejwant Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekta Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 N30 Singh, Guru Fateh. I would like to know why all my posts are missing in this thread? This is sheer discrimination, not a Sikhi way. Is this the way you moderate in this forum while let people QUOTE my posts and you delete mine? Sikhi is not practiced like this. I hope you respond to this post rather than deleting it. Regards Tejwant Singh A large number of off topic posts from multiple users were moved from various threads to the only five vs randip singh thread by myself. The sheer number of off topic posts and back and forth argumentation was (and once again is) ridiculous. There are currently 8 or 9 new completely off topic back and forth argument posts added since I last logged in, less than 12 hours ago. This is nuts, so I've decided to simply delete the tu tu mein mein style posts unless posted in that one thread. When people have an opinion backed up by evidence or an argument (on topic), I never delete the post. Just a general note, Any further posts of this nature from the posters involved in this will result in official warnings and eventually a ban if they don't stop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all! Many people have suggestions on how others should change; The Gur of true Simran works on how they should change. Balbir Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 What have missionaries,bhausaria have done for the panth? i Missionaries are destroyers of sikhism. They have not introduced a single soul into sikhism. I wonder why they call them missionaries. They are old communists in sikh guise and biggest enemies of sikhism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru da Sikh Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Missionaries are destroyers of sikhism. They have not introduced a single soul into sikhism. I wonder why they call them missionaries. They are old communists in sikh guise and biggest enemies of sikhism. How many Sikh Missionaries been charged with Sexual Assault cases compared to the so called ‘Sants’? You post a list and I will mine ONLY in response. Yet you paint everybody with a single stroke of paint brushand that is DISRESPECTFUL to this Forum (Mod take note). How many missionaries are being driven in Limousines, have multimillion dollar mansions called Deras, have special quilts (Gadaas) for them to sit on in Hazoori of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji? Here see for yourself, click on the link below and see this ‘Sant’s’ DISRESPECT to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji! http://www.wakeupkhalsa.com/video-general.php 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaheguruseekr Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Missionaries are destroyers of sikhism. They have not introduced a single soul into sikhism. I wonder why they call them missionaries. They are old communists in sikh guise and biggest enemies of sikhism. Singh2 aka Inder Singh, Gur Fateh. Pleae give us some solid evidence to prove your claim, otherwise what you are doing is anti Sikhi. You have said many times that you do not believe in Guru Granth Sahib as the ONLY GURU for the Sikhs. So STOP trying to introduce your Hindutva in Sikhi. Tejwant Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Guru Da Sikh, I dont' know about missionaries, but I know for sure that your Guru, Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afghana is a child molester. You Kala Afghanists feel no sharam following this sexual preditor. If I was a Kala Afghanist, and I found out the truth about Kala Afghana's sexual molesting past, I would have died in shame. But I should only expect shame from people who have a sense of shame, Kala Afghana was BESHARAM and logically that would make his chelle also Besharam. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaheguruseekr Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 A large number of off topic posts from multiple users were moved from various threads to the only five vs randip singh thread by myself. The sheer number of off topic posts and back and forth argumentation was (and once again is) ridiculous. There are currently 8 or 9 new completely off topic back and forth argument posts added since I last logged in, less than 12 hours ago. This is nuts, so I've decided to simply delete the tu tu mein mein style posts unless posted in that one thread. When people have an opinion backed up by evidence or an argument (on topic), I never delete the post. Just a general note, Any further posts of this nature from the posters involved in this will result in official warnings and eventually a ban if they don't stop. Ekta ji, Guru Fateh. What was wrong with my post which said that," Singh 2 has said himself many times that he does not accept Guru Granth Sahib as our ONLY GURU and his claim that REHAT is not mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib ji after which he was given the Panna numbers in which Guru Sahib does mention Rehat? Can you please elaborate from Gurmat viewpoint about deleting that post? Lastly, If you want to ban someone because a person wants to have an open and honest dialogue about Gurmat values, then that would be your decision, based on what, I have no idea. Thanks Tejwant Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Kala Afghana da Sickophant: t’s not perfect but it’s the best analysis we got today. I wouldn’t want Rapists ‘Sants’ like Dhanwant Singh, Maan Singh Pehove Wala, telling me what those Anthreev Bahv Arth are? They will probably combine ‘Gurbani’ and make a ‘cocktail’ with Kok Shatsar from Dasam Granth (as per you boys previous postings) and present to young females in Sangat. I can only imagine how many of the female attendees in the ‘sangat’ will get ‘bache di daat’! Mods, do your job and moderate, or just get rid of this creature. K. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Ekta ji, Guru Fateh. What was wrong with my post which said that," Singh 2 has said himself many times that he does not accept Guru Granth Sahib as our ONLY GURU and his claim that REHAT is not mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib ji after which he was given the Panna numbers in which Guru Sahib does mention Rehat? Can you please elaborate from Gurmat viewpoint about deleting that post? Lastly, If you want to ban someone because a person wants to have an open and honest dialogue about Gurmat values, then that would be your decision, based on what, I have no idea. Thanks Tejwant Singh I'm guessing it was deleted because it's an outright lie. Every Sikh here believes gurgaddi was given to Sri Guru Granth Sahib, and the panktis that Ullo Ka shick or Kala Afghana ki navel Fuzz (or whatever it calls itself now) quoted to prove that 5 kakaar rehat is contained in Sri Guru Granth Sahib do no such thing (unless of course you have the really, really super "special" and unique understanding of the Adi Granth that only it has). K. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Pleae give us some solid evidence to prove your claim, otherwise what you are doing is anti Sikhi. You have said many times that you do not believe in Guru Granth Sahib as the ONLY GURU for the Sikhs. So STOP trying to introduce your Hindutva in Sikhi. Where did i write that i do not believe in Sri guru granth sahib ji. Please refer that post here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 How many Sikh Missionaries been charged with Sexual Assault cases compared to the so called ‘Sants’? You post a list and I will mine ONLY in response. Yet you paint everybody with a single stroke of paint brushand that is DISRESPECTFUL to this Forum (Mod take note). Sants are of various types. Some are fakes but that does not mean that all are bad. To club them together is height of ignorance. Kala afghana has become a guru of missionaries. here is a complete court case against him where he was indicted for molesting a sikh bibi in Gurudwara sahib. Complete court case Judgement against Kala Afghana Here is complete story of Gurbakash Singh Kala Afghana's conviction in sexual assault case in a Gurdwara...... =================================================== Khalsa v. Bhullar http://q1.quicklaw.com/qItemp/C IDGLexk WVHmDlLe/... ** Unedited ** Indexed as: Khalsa v. Bhullar Between Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa, Plaintiff, and Taranjit Kaur Bhullar, Hariner Singh Bhullar, Gumham Singh Bajwa and Kahar Singh Pannu, Defendants Counsel for the Plaintiff: Douglas S. Cunliffe. Counsel for the Defendants: Christopher M. Considine. [1992] B.C.J. No. 378 Victoria Registry No. 89/1983 British Columbia Supreme Court Victoria, British Columbia Macdonell J. Heard: September 3 - 6, 9 - 12 and November 7, 1991 Judgment: February 24, 1992 (15 pp.) Torts - Defamation 2- Defences - Truth. Sexual assault - Damages - General damages - Punitive damages - Punitive damage award appropriate where a /1 priest of the Sikh religion breached his position of trust by sexually assaulting a parishioner. The plaintiff sued for damages for defamation of character. The defendants counterclaimed for damages for sexual assault. The plaintiff was a priest of a Sikh religious temple. The summer following the incident which was the subject of this lawsuit, the plaintiff was discharged. The plaintiff was 68-years-old, and resided in the living quarters with his wife and a daughter. His argument was that a faction in the temple wanted to get rid of him, so they attempted to put him in a compromising position with Mrs. B. He claimed that she wrongfully exposed herself before him and was sexually aggressive towards him, and that he took no part in it. He further argued that such a false accusation against a priest is particularly devastating; in fact it resulted in his being wrongfully dismissed and being unable to obtain further employment as a priest. The case for the defence was that the plaintiff was not defamed and that, in fact, the allegation of sexual assault was true. HELD: The plaintiffs action was dismissed. The defendant Mrs. B succeeded on her counterclaim, having proved that the plaintiff in fact sexually assaulted her. The court awarded her $5,000.00 in general damages, and $5,000.00 in special damages. The plaintiff had failed to prove his allegation of a wrongful accusation of sexual assault. The defendants had proved their counterclaim AND THE COURT FOUND THAT IN FACT THE SEXUAL ASSAULT HAD TAKEN PLACE. With respect to general damages for the sexual assault, the court had to bear in mind the gravity of the assault, the circumstances of it, and its effect on Mrs. B. The assault was of a relatively minor nature in the sense that there was only one incident. The assault here was committed by a priest in the living quarters of a Sikh temple upon a parishioner who was requested to attend by the priest. The emotional impact of the forceful touching of the plaintiffs chest and the attempt to remove her stockings was not only offensive but appalling, particularly as the priest in the Sikh religion is held in high esteem and the utmost in decorum is expected of him. He was in a position of trust and abused the trust. On the other hand, there did not appear to be any serious after-effects on Mrs. B other than distaste for the whole matter. The impact on Mrs. B would be lessened by her vindication in this lawsuit, allowing her to save face. MACDONELL J.:- The plaintiffs action against the defendants is for defamation of character arising out of an accusation by the defendant Taranjit Bhullar that she was sexually assaulted by the plaintiff, which accusation was published by the defendants. The defendant Mrs. Bhullar alleges that the plaintiff sexually assaulted her, and she and her husband counterclaim for damages against the plaintiff. The background, briefly, is that the plaintiff at all material times was the priest at the Topaz Street Temple of the Khalsa Diwan Society, which is a Sikh religious society. The plaintiff came to Canada in 1984 and resided for a year in Grand Prairie with his daughter. Prior to coming to Canada, he had been a policeman in the Punjab and retired with the rank of Inspector in 1981. He had no training in the priesthood but was a devout Sikh. There does not seem to be much dispute that he was knowledgeable in the religion and was qualified to act as a priest, as there does not appear to be any need for prior formal religious training to act as a priest in a temple. While in Grand Prairie, he saw an advertisement in an ethnic ne"",spaper advertising for a priest at Golden. He applied and was successful and presided as a priest there for some nine months. With this experience he was accepted as a priest at 1 00 Mile House where he presided for a year. He then heard of an opening at the Topaz Street Temple in Victoria and on October 1st, 1986, he was employed there as the priest on a contract basis which provided for two months' notice by either party. He continued as priest until the summer following the incident which is the subject of this law suit, when he was discharged. The plaintiff was sixty-eight years of age at all material times, was married and had children. He and his wife and a daughter resided in the living quarters of the temple. Following his appointment, things went along reasonably well, although there was friction with the executive of the Society - no doubt partly due to the plaintiffs rigidity in some areas. Toward the end of December, 1987 the friction between him and the Committee increased and the plaintiff became convinced that a group in the temple, including the defendants, wished to be rid of him. It is his position that there was a conspiracy to effect his removal, starting with their sending a white woman to the temple to compromise him sexually. That plot failed as she was drunk. He alleges that thereafter there was a meeting between the various defendants and others who plotted to have the female defendant compromise him, again with the purpose of getting rid of him. However, as part of his case, the plaintiff alleges only the slander and not a conspiracy to remove him as priest, which seems to be the subject matter of another lawsuit. The plaintiff testified that he met the Bhullars in 1986 and that they were regular attenders at the temple. They were helpful with his daughter's marriage and by 1987 he and the Bhullars became good friends. He testified that from time to time he saw Mrs. Bhullar alone and that at times they discussed problems she had with her husband. He described their relationship as that of a family membership. The female defendant is thirty-five years of age and her husband is a comparable age. The plaintiff said that in 1988, when Mrs. Bhullar left one night after visiting, she embraced him and kissed him on the cheek. He said that he was very upset by this. He said that following this she telephoned him and explained that such conduct was not unusual in Canada. He said that in January and February 1989 nothing of a sexual nature took place between them and that they did not meet privately during that time. He said that on March 25th, which was just prior to his and his wife's visit to Seattle, Mrs. Bhullar came to the temple at lunchtime in response to a call from him. He said they took food after her arrival and then he went to take a rest in his bedroom. He said that the defendant came into the room. At that time he was sitting on a chair removing his jacket. He said that she removed her blouse, exposing her naked breasts, sat on his lap, and put her hands around his neck. He testified that she said, "I know you need me". He said he was stunned and pushed her away, telling her that this was not the way for a daughter to act. The defendant left and the plaintiff then went to the temple and prostrated himself before the Holy Book. He said that he and his wife left for Seattle the next day, returning April 5th of 1989. He telephoned Mrs. Bhullar at her office but as she was busy she telephoned him the following day. He said he recorded the call on his answering machine. He said he told her he would tell her husband that she was not acting like a daughter. He said he did, in fact, telephone her husband on the 6th and told him that his wife was not faithful. He met her husband in the afternoon and spoke to him further. He said that on April 30th there was a meeting of the Committee and his employment and raise were discussed. He denied that there was any condition of immediate dismissal in the case of lack of moral turpitude. He said he did not speak to the defendants from April through to June. On July 22nd, there was a meeting of the Temple Committee and the plaintiff was advised by Mr. Bajwa and Mr. Pannu that Mr. and Mrs. Bhullar had lodged a complaint against him and that there was a tape of a conversation between the plaintiff and Mrs. Bhullar. The tape was apparently played, which resulted in the plaintiffs employment being terminated. After listening to the tape and hearing the accusation of Mrs. Bhullar, the Committee accepted as a fact that the plaintiff had sexually assaulted the female defendant. The plaintiffs position is that this allegation is false and that the true state of affairs is that it was the defendant who wrongfully exposed herself before him and was sexually aggressive toward him, and that he took no part in it. The plaintiffs position is that such a false accusation against a priest is particularly devastating; in fact it resulted in his being wrongfully dismissed and being unable to obtain further employment as a priest. A considerable amount of evidence was called with respect to various taped telephone conversations, produced by both the plaintiff and the defendants Bhullar, and other evidence of conflicts in the temple which do not relate much to the law suit. The plaintiff alleges that there was a conspiracy to remove him and that the conduct of the female defendant which he described was orchestrated by a group in the Committee, which included Mr. Pannu and Mr. Bajwa, to compromise the plaintiff. The plaintiff called Mr. Gurbakash Sihota, who testified that he met the defendants Bajwa and Pannu in February 1989 and that Mr. Johal, Mr. Ajwall and Mr. Sanhera were there. The meeting was at approximately 9:00 p.m. and was arranged to congratulate Bajwa and Pannu for their election to office on the Temple Committee. The last three mentioned come from Vancouver. He said they then discussed getting rid of the plaintiff, as there was a complaint by Mr. Bajwa about the priest interfering in a wedding ceremony when Mr. Bajwa sang a poem. Mr. Pannu's complaint was that the priest contradicted his mother-in-law. The consensus was that they should get rid of the priest and that they had a girl ready to entice him into making sexual advances. The name mentioned was the female defendant, Bhullar. Mr. Sihota said that Pannu had mentioned that they had tried a white lady but it did not work because she got drunk when she was sent to the temple and the plaintiff" got away". In cross-examination the witness tied himself to the meeting taking place on February 11 tho The case for the defence is that the plaintiff was not defamed and that, in fact, the allegation of a sexual assault is true. The Bhullars in their counterclaim ask for damages against the plaintiff for the sexual assault. The female defendant is thirty-five years of age, was born in India and came to Canada in 1962, where she took her education through Grade 12 at Oak Bay High School and Camosun College. She has been with the Workers Compensation Board for some seventeen years and is presently a Claims Adjudicator, a position she has held for some four years. She was married in 1985 and has one daughter of five years of age. Her husband works for the Municipality of Saanich. They met the plaintiff when he became a priest. They attended the Topaz Street Temple regularly from 1986 through 1988 and they became close to the plaintiff. Initially, Mrs. Bhullar and her husband responded to his need for help in the community as he was a stranger. In 1987 the plaintiff needed a drive to a religious ceremony. Mrs. Bhullar drove him there and said he put his hand on her hand and she asked him to take it off. He later asked, "How about a kiss?" and she said, "You've got to be kidding". She told her husband about this incident and they cut down their visits with the plaintiff and their attendance at the temple significantly. She said that at the end of 1988 the plaintiff called her to meet him in private to talk over his problems. She said they met at the temple and nothing untoward happened. In December of 1988 the plaintiff was persistently telephoning her and at times asked her to bring food. On one occasion she did take along Chinese food and it was consumed in his quarters. On leaving she said he asked for a hug and a kiss and that she pushed him away. Following this she received telephone calls at work and by January and February 1989 he was calling her as much as four times a day, two or three times a week. In addition, when she was not available, she received messages from time to time that "Father had called". She said that in early January the plaintiff had telephoned and was very angry and upset with her as somebody in his family had died and the Bhullars had not been available to help him. She said that in mid-February the plaintiff wanted to meet her at the library in the temple for lunch as he wanted to talk to her. She went and was met at the top of the stairs by the plaintiff, who said the lunch was laid on in the library. She asked where his wife and daughter were and he told her they had had their lunch and were sleeping. She said "We went to another room, which was the guest room, where lunch was laid out". There were two beds and a dresser. They ate the food sitting on the beds. He sat on one and she sat on the other. She said that the plaintiff came to the bed and put his arm around her and pushed her back onto the bed. She said he put his hand underneath her blouse and with his other hand tugged at her skirt. She said she tried to pull away. He told her he couldn't take her nylons off, although he was trying. She said she pulled herself together and pushed him away. She said she "got loud", meaning that she raised her voice. He said "Don't get loud, the bitches are sleeping in the next room". Mrs. Bhullar then left through the library and went back to work, very upset. At that time she did not discuss what had happened with Ms. Mettis, her case assistant, although Ms. Mettis asked her what was the matter. She said in April she received a call from the plaintiff threatening to blackmail her. He said that he had a taped conversation which incriminated her. She said she was devastated. She reported to work as usual, but while going over a file with Ms. Mettis she broke down in tears and then told her what had happened at the temple. She was advised to tell her husband, which she did. They did not attend at the temple after that. Following her disclosure of the assault to her husband they went to the police, who suggested that the matter be sorted out in the Sikh community. She said to protect themselves against a case of slander they purchased a recording device and that during conversations with the plaintiff she led him to believe that she had not told her husband. Various conversations were recorded. At the same time, the plaintiff was busy recording conversations on his machine. Mrs. Bhullar denies that she was a party to any conspiracy to compromise the plaintiff with the purpose of having him removed. The defendant husband was called and his evidence paralleled that of his wife. He also testified that he was not a party to any agreement to effect the removal of the plaintiff. The other defendants were called and they all gave evidence to the same effect. After hearing Mrs. Bhullar's accusation of sexual assault by the plaintiff, which they believed, and the taped telephone conversations, they concluded that he had in fact committed a sexual assault and this was the foundation for his being removed as a priest. The defendants deny that there was any meeting as alleged by Mr. Sihota. The defence called Ms. Mettis, who confirmed the evidence of the female defendant and, in particular, the numerous calls made by the plaintiff to Mrs. Bhullar, her emotional state following the visit to the temple, and what was disclosed to her later when Mrs. Bhullar broke down at the office. The defence called Mr. Rajinder Sihota, who is a senior accountant with the Ministry of Finance. He testified that on February 13th, 1989 he was in a police station in the Punjab with respect to a complaint concerning Gurbakash Sihota, the witness called for the plaintiff who alleged the conspiracy meeting. Mr. Rajinder Sihota testified that the plaintiffs witness was not only in the Punjab on the 13th February, but had been there for some time. Logistically it would not have been possible for him to be in Victoria on February lIth due to time changes and travelling time. Mr. Rajinder Sihota also testified that the plaintiffs witness Sihota was a cousin of his and had a bad reputation. In addition, he had information that his cousin had been in the Punjab for a few months at that time. The defence's position can be summarized as a complete denial of the allegation of defamation or of a conspiracy. With respect to the counterclai:t;n, the defence claims that the evidence of the defendants should be accepted and that the Court should find that the plaintiff sexually assaulted the female defendant. I have to assess the credibility of the various witnesses called and also consider the tape recordings which have been led in evidence and the allegation by the defence that the plaintiffs tape recordings have been tampered with and are, in fact, extracts from other conversations taken out of context. The defence also takes the position that the tape recordings that have been produced by the defence make it quite clear that the plaintiff admitted to the sexual assault. Both the plaintiff and the defence called evidence of experts dealing with the authenticity of the tapes. The defendants' expert listened to the tapes and conducted sound tests. In my view, his evidence should be preferred to that of the plaintiffs expert, who did not carry out this testing. The conclusion of the defendants' expert is that the tape of the plaintiff was not prepared, as he testified, by using a tape recorder or answering machine and speaking to an answering machine and telephone, but that in fact all the conversations were taken from a telephone line. I find this evidence credible. I accept it and conclude that the tape prepared by the plaintiff has been concocted by him and not recorded as he testified. Listening to the defendants' tapes with the assistance of the witnesses and the interpreter persuades me that the inference to be taken from them is that the plaintiff admitted to sexually assaulting the female defendant and that the Committee was well justified in accepting the evidence of Mrs. Bhullar and the tapes in concluding that the plaintiff had sexually assaulted her. With respect to the alleged meeting between the executives at Mr. Sihota's house, I conclude that this evidence was fabricated and quite untrue and I accept the evidence of Mr. Rajinder Sihota called for the defence that the plaintiffs witness Sihota was in fact in the Punjab at the time when the supposed conversation and conspiracy took place. I conclude therefore that the plaintiff has failed to prove his allegation of a wrongful accusation of sexual assault and find that in fact the sexual assault did take place. The plaintiffs action is accordingly dismissed with costs. With respect to the counterclaim, I find that the defendants have proved their counterclaim and that the plaintiff in fact sexually assaulted the female defendant. The plaintiff - who, as a priest in a position of authority and influence, sexually assaulted a female parishioner in the tight-knit society of the Sikh community in Victoria - is guilty of an extremely serious offence. DAMAGES The counterclaim is advanced by both Bhullars against the plaintiff for the sexual assault. It is my view that the only one who can succeed in the counterclaim is Mrs. Bhullar. The defendant argues as if there is a counterclaim for defamation of character as well as sexual assault, but in fact that is not what the pleadings disclose. In any event, a case has not been made out to entitle Mr. Bhullar to damages. With respect to general damages for the sexual assault, I have to bear in mind the gravity of the assault, the circumstances of it, and its effect on Mrs. Bhullar. In this case, unlike a number of others where damages have been sought for sexual assault, the assault is of a comparatively minor nature in the sense that there was only the one incident, as opposed to cases where the assault was a rape or a similar crime of violence, or assaults on younger people, that have often continued over a number of years. Little is to be gained by trying to compare damages in cases that are not similar to the case at bar, so I do not propose to review the current authorities which are not bountiful. What I have to deal with here is an assault by a priest in the living quarters of a Sikh temple upon a parishioner who was requested to attend by the priest, who is the plaintiff. The emotional impact of the forceful touching of the plaintiffs chest and the attempt to take off her stockings is not only offensive but appalling, particularly as the priest in the Sikh religion is held in high esteem and the utmost in decorum is expected of him. He was in a position of trust and abused that trust. The assault was made possible because of the respect of Mrs. Bhullar for the plaintiff as priest and her being at the temple at all was at his request. With respect to the consequences or the effect on Mrs. Bhullar, there is very little evidence before me other than her feelings of humiliation, shock and degradation. There do not appear to be any serious after-effects other than distaste for the whole matter. Consequently, it is my view that the damages should reflect the seriousness of the assault but damages in other more serious cases should be borne in mind to keep a balanced perspective of damages under this head. To some extent the impact on Mrs Bhullard is lessened, as her success in this lawsuit vindicates her and face is saved in a society where it is very important. By the same token, the plaintiff is discredited and has lost all respect and credibility in his community. I award general damages to Mrs. Bhullar in the amount of $5,000.00 for the sexual assault. A claim has been advanced for punitive damages. In this case it is my view that it is appropriate that punitive damages be awarded. They are not awarded on the basis of compensation but on the principle of punishment. In this case no criminal proceedings were launched, although the Bhullars did report the matter to the police, who left it to the Sikh community to sort out the matter and did not proceed with charges. Consequently, the element of punishment of the plaintiff for his conduct has not been addressed. In this case punitive damages need be awarded to express society's disapproval of the conduct of the plaintiff as a priest in authority and trust breaching that trust and sexually assaulting a parishioner. His attempting, after that, to manufacture evidence and shift the blame away from himself and his harassment of Mrs. Bhullar is despicable. I award the sum of $5,000.00 as punitive damages. Mrs. Bhullar will have her costs of the counterclaim and pre-judgment interest at the rate set by the Registrar from time to time. MACDONELL J. (JUDGE) How many missionaries are being driven in Limousines, have multimillion dollar mansions called Deras, have special quilts (Gadaas) for them to sit on in Hazoori of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji? Because they are gurnindaks and hence sangat by and large do not wentertain them. Instaed of doing any missionary work their efforts are to destroy the sikh history. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Ekta ji, Guru Fateh. What was wrong with my post which said that," Singh 2 has said himself many times that he does not accept Guru Granth Sahib as our ONLY GURU and his claim that REHAT is not mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib ji after which he was given the Panna numbers in which Guru Sahib does mention Rehat? Can you please elaborate from Gurmat viewpoint about deleting that post? Lastly, If you want to ban someone because a person wants to have an open and honest dialogue about Gurmat values, then that would be your decision, based on what, I have no idea. Thanks Tejwant Singh Do not beat about bush. Cite a post where i stated that i dont believe in SGGS ji. Be concise and to the point. Then we can talk about your lies about rehat. One point at a time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Guru Da Sikh, I dont' know about missionaries, but I know for sure that your Guru, Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afghana is a child molester. You Kala Afghanists feel no sharam following this sexual preditor. If I was a Kala Afghanist, and I found out the truth about Kala Afghana's sexual molesting past, I would have died in shame. But I should only expect shame from people who have a sense of shame, Kala Afghana was BESHARAM and logically that would make his chelle also Besharam. and also a thief. jailed in India when he was caught taking bribe and stealing engines of cars when posted as sub inspector at jandial Guru police station. made to jump bail and brought to Canada. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru da Sikh Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Sants are of various types. Some are fakes but that does not mean that all are bad. To club them together is height of ignorance. Mod' edit due to off-topic, there are specific thread on roles of saints in sikhism under saint section link: http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showtopic=11377 , please bring your arguments on that thread regarding sants in sikhism. Kala afghana has become a guru of missionaries. Kala Afgana has NEVER claimed to be anybody’s Guru and his books shook up Sampardavan who were trying to bring Hindutava into Sikhi under the name of various Granths! Here is a complete court case against him where he was indicted for molesting a sikh bibi in Gurudwara sahib. Complete court case Judgement against Kala Afghana Here is complete story of Gurbakash Singh Kala Afghana's conviction in sexual assault case in a Gurdwara...... =================================================== Khalsa v. Bhullar http://q1.quicklaw.com/qItemp/C IDGLexk WVHmDlLe/... ** Unedited ** Indexed as: Khalsa v. Bhullar Between Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa, Plaintiff, and Taranjit Kaur Bhullar, Hariner Singh Bhullar, Gumham Singh Bajwa and Kahar Singh Pannu, Defendants Counsel for the Plaintiff: Douglas S. Cunliffe. Counsel for the Defendants: Christopher M. Considine. [1992] B.C.J. No. 378 Victoria Registry No. 89/1983 British Columbia Supreme Court Victoria, British Columbia Macdonell J. Heard: September 3 - 6, 9 - 12 and November 7, 1991 Judgment: February 24, 1992 (15 pp.) Torts - Defamation 2- Defences - Truth. Sexual assault - Damages - General damages - Punitive damages - Punitive damage award appropriate where a /1 priest of the Sikh religion breached his position of trust by sexually assaulting a parishioner. The plaintiff sued for damages for defamation of character. The defendants counterclaimed for damages for sexual assault. The plaintiff was a priest of a Sikh religious temple. The summer following the incident which was the subject of this lawsuit, the plaintiff was discharged. The plaintiff was 68-years-old, and resided in the living quarters with his wife and a daughter. His argument was that a faction in the temple wanted to get rid of him, so they attempted to put him in a compromising position with Mrs. B. He claimed that she wrongfully exposed herself before him and was sexually aggressive towards him, and that he took no part in it. He further argued that such a false accusation against a priest is particularly devastating; in fact it resulted in his being wrongfully dismissed and being unable to obtain further employment as a priest. The case for the defence was that the plaintiff was not defamed and that, in fact, the allegation of sexual assault was true. HELD: The plaintiffs action was dismissed. The defendant Mrs. B succeeded on her counterclaim, having proved that the plaintiff in fact sexually assaulted her. The court awarded her $5,000.00 in general damages, and $5,000.00 in special damages. The plaintiff had failed to prove his allegation of a wrongful accusation of sexual assault. The defendants had proved their counterclaim AND THE COURT FOUND THAT IN FACT THE SEXUAL ASSAULT HAD TAKEN PLACE. With respect to general damages for the sexual assault, the court had to bear in mind the gravity of the assault, the circumstances of it, and its effect on Mrs. B. The assault was of a relatively minor nature in the sense that there was only one incident. The assault here was committed by a priest in the living quarters of a Sikh temple upon a parishioner who was requested to attend by the priest. The emotional impact of the forceful touching of the plaintiffs chest and the attempt to remove her stockings was not only offensive but appalling, particularly as the priest in the Sikh religion is held in high esteem and the utmost in decorum is expected of him. He was in a position of trust and abused the trust. On the other hand, there did not appear to be any serious after-effects on Mrs. B other than distaste for the whole matter. The impact on Mrs. B would be lessened by her vindication in this lawsuit, allowing her to save face. MACDONELL J.:- The plaintiffs action against the defendants is for defamation of character arising out of an accusation by the defendant Taranjit Bhullar that she was sexually assaulted by the plaintiff, which accusation was published by the defendants. The defendant Mrs. Bhullar alleges that the plaintiff sexually assaulted her, and she and her husband counterclaim for damages against the plaintiff. The background, briefly, is that the plaintiff at all material times was the priest at the Topaz Street Temple of the Khalsa Diwan Society, which is a Sikh religious society. The plaintiff came to Canada in 1984 and resided for a year in Grand Prairie with his daughter. Prior to coming to Canada, he had been a policeman in the Punjab and retired with the rank of Inspector in 1981. He had no training in the priesthood but was a devout Sikh. There does not seem to be much dispute that he was knowledgeable in the religion and was qualified to act as a priest, as there does not appear to be any need for prior formal religious training to act as a priest in a temple. While in Grand Prairie, he saw an advertisement in an ethnic ne"",spaper advertising for a priest at Golden. He applied and was successful and presided as a priest there for some nine months. With this experience he was accepted as a priest at 1 00 Mile House where he presided for a year. He then heard of an opening at the Topaz Street Temple in Victoria and on October 1st, 1986, he was employed there as the priest on a contract basis which provided for two months' notice by either party. He continued as priest until the summer following the incident which is the subject of this law suit, when he was discharged. The plaintiff was sixty-eight years of age at all material times, was married and had children. He and his wife and a daughter resided in the living quarters of the temple. Following his appointment, things went along reasonably well, although there was friction with the executive of the Society - no doubt partly due to the plaintiffs rigidity in some areas. Toward the end of December, 1987 the friction between him and the Committee increased and the plaintiff became convinced that a group in the temple, including the defendants, wished to be rid of him. It is his position that there was a conspiracy to effect his removal, starting with their sending a white woman to the temple to compromise him sexually. That plot failed as she was drunk. He alleges that thereafter there was a meeting between the various defendants and others who plotted to have the female defendant compromise him, again with the purpose of getting rid of him. However, as part of his case, the plaintiff alleges only the slander and not a conspiracy to remove him as priest, which seems to be the subject matter of another lawsuit. The plaintiff testified that he met the Bhullars in 1986 and that they were regular attenders at the temple. They were helpful with his daughter's marriage and by 1987 he and the Bhullars became good friends. He testified that from time to time he saw Mrs. Bhullar alone and that at times they discussed problems she had with her husband. He described their relationship as that of a family membership. The female defendant is thirty-five years of age and her husband is a comparable age. The plaintiff said that in 1988, when Mrs. Bhullar left one night after visiting, she embraced him and kissed him on the cheek. He said that he was very upset by this. He said that following this she telephoned him and explained that such conduct was not unusual in Canada. He said that in January and February 1989 nothing of a sexual nature took place between them and that they did not meet privately during that time. He said that on March 25th, which was just prior to his and his wife's visit to Seattle, Mrs. Bhullar came to the temple at lunchtime in response to a call from him. He said they took food after her arrival and then he went to take a rest in his bedroom. He said that the defendant came into the room. At that time he was sitting on a chair removing his jacket. He said that she removed her blouse, exposing her naked breasts, sat on his lap, and put her hands around his neck. He testified that she said, "I know you need me". He said he was stunned and pushed her away, telling her that this was not the way for a daughter to act. The defendant left and the plaintiff then went to the temple and prostrated himself before the Holy Book. He said that he and his wife left for Seattle the next day, returning April 5th of 1989. He telephoned Mrs. Bhullar at her office but as she was busy she telephoned him the following day. He said he recorded the call on his answering machine. He said he told her he would tell her husband that she was not acting like a daughter. He said he did, in fact, telephone her husband on the 6th and told him that his wife was not faithful. He met her husband in the afternoon and spoke to him further. He said that on April 30th there was a meeting of the Committee and his employment and raise were discussed. He denied that there was any condition of immediate dismissal in the case of lack of moral turpitude. He said he did not speak to the defendants from April through to June. On July 22nd, there was a meeting of the Temple Committee and the plaintiff was advised by Mr. Bajwa and Mr. Pannu that Mr. and Mrs. Bhullar had lodged a complaint against him and that there was a tape of a conversation between the plaintiff and Mrs. Bhullar. The tape was apparently played, which resulted in the plaintiffs employment being terminated. After listening to the tape and hearing the accusation of Mrs. Bhullar, the Committee accepted as a fact that the plaintiff had sexually assaulted the female defendant. The plaintiffs position is that this allegation is false and that the true state of affairs is that it was the defendant who wrongfully exposed herself before him and was sexually aggressive toward him, and that he took no part in it. The plaintiffs position is that such a false accusation against a priest is particularly devastating; in fact it resulted in his being wrongfully dismissed and being unable to obtain further employment as a priest. A considerable amount of evidence was called with respect to various taped telephone conversations, produced by both the plaintiff and the defendants Bhullar, and other evidence of conflicts in the temple which do not relate much to the law suit. The plaintiff alleges that there was a conspiracy to remove him and that the conduct of the female defendant which he described was orchestrated by a group in the Committee, which included Mr. Pannu and Mr. Bajwa, to compromise the plaintiff. The plaintiff called Mr. Gurbakash Sihota, who testified that he met the defendants Bajwa and Pannu in February 1989 and that Mr. Johal, Mr. Ajwall and Mr. Sanhera were there. The meeting was at approximately 9:00 p.m. and was arranged to congratulate Bajwa and Pannu for their election to office on the Temple Committee. The last three mentioned come from Vancouver. He said they then discussed getting rid of the plaintiff, as there was a complaint by Mr. Bajwa about the priest interfering in a wedding ceremony when Mr. Bajwa sang a poem. Mr. Pannu's complaint was that the priest contradicted his mother-in-law. The consensus was that they should get rid of the priest and that they had a girl ready to entice him into making sexual advances. The name mentioned was the female defendant, Bhullar. Mr. Sihota said that Pannu had mentioned that they had tried a white lady but it did not work because she got drunk when she was sent to the temple and the plaintiff" got away". In cross-examination the witness tied himself to the meeting taking place on February 11 tho The case for the defence is that the plaintiff was not defamed and that, in fact, the allegation of a sexual assault is true. The Bhullars in their counterclaim ask for damages against the plaintiff for the sexual assault. The female defendant is thirty-five years of age, was born in India and came to Canada in 1962, where she took her education through Grade 12 at Oak Bay High School and Camosun College. She has been with the Workers Compensation Board for some seventeen years and is presently a Claims Adjudicator, a position she has held for some four years. She was married in 1985 and has one daughter of five years of age. Her husband works for the Municipality of Saanich. They met the plaintiff when he became a priest. They attended the Topaz Street Temple regularly from 1986 through 1988 and they became close to the plaintiff. Initially, Mrs. Bhullar and her husband responded to his need for help in the community as he was a stranger. In 1987 the plaintiff needed a drive to a religious ceremony. Mrs. Bhullar drove him there and said he put his hand on her hand and she asked him to take it off. He later asked, "How about a kiss?" and she said, "You've got to be kidding". She told her husband about this incident and they cut down their visits with the plaintiff and their attendance at the temple significantly. She said that at the end of 1988 the plaintiff called her to meet him in private to talk over his problems. She said they met at the temple and nothing untoward happened. In December of 1988 the plaintiff was persistently telephoning her and at times asked her to bring food. On one occasion she did take along Chinese food and it was consumed in his quarters. On leaving she said he asked for a hug and a kiss and that she pushed him away. Following this she received telephone calls at work and by January and February 1989 he was calling her as much as four times a day, two or three times a week. In addition, when she was not available, she received messages from time to time that "Father had called". She said that in early January the plaintiff had telephoned and was very angry and upset with her as somebody in his family had died and the Bhullars had not been available to help him. She said that in mid-February the plaintiff wanted to meet her at the library in the temple for lunch as he wanted to talk to her. She went and was met at the top of the stairs by the plaintiff, who said the lunch was laid on in the library. She asked where his wife and daughter were and he told her they had had their lunch and were sleeping. She said "We went to another room, which was the guest room, where lunch was laid out". There were two beds and a dresser. They ate the food sitting on the beds. He sat on one and she sat on the other. She said that the plaintiff came to the bed and put his arm around her and pushed her back onto the bed. She said he put his hand underneath her blouse and with his other hand tugged at her skirt. She said she tried to pull away. He told her he couldn't take her nylons off, although he was trying. She said she pulled herself together and pushed him away. She said she "got loud", meaning that she raised her voice. He said "Don't get loud, the bitches are sleeping in the next room". Mrs. Bhullar then left through the library and went back to work, very upset. At that time she did not discuss what had happened with Ms. Mettis, her case assistant, although Ms. Mettis asked her what was the matter. She said in April she received a call from the plaintiff threatening to blackmail her. He said that he had a taped conversation which incriminated her. She said she was devastated. She reported to work as usual, but while going over a file with Ms. Mettis she broke down in tears and then told her what had happened at the temple. She was advised to tell her husband, which she did. They did not attend at the temple after that. Following her disclosure of the assault to her husband they went to the police, who suggested that the matter be sorted out in the Sikh community. She said to protect themselves against a case of slander they purchased a recording device and that during conversations with the plaintiff she led him to believe that she had not told her husband. Various conversations were recorded. At the same time, the plaintiff was busy recording conversations on his machine. Mrs. Bhullar denies that she was a party to any conspiracy to compromise the plaintiff with the purpose of having him removed. The defendant husband was called and his evidence paralleled that of his wife. He also testified that he was not a party to any agreement to effect the removal of the plaintiff. The other defendants were called and they all gave evidence to the same effect. After hearing Mrs. Bhullar's accusation of sexual assault by the plaintiff, which they believed, and the taped telephone conversations, they concluded that he had in fact committed a sexual assault and this was the foundation for his being removed as a priest. The defendants deny that there was any meeting as alleged by Mr. Sihota. The defence called Ms. Mettis, who confirmed the evidence of the female defendant and, in particular, the numerous calls made by the plaintiff to Mrs. Bhullar, her emotional state following the visit to the temple, and what was disclosed to her later when Mrs. Bhullar broke down at the office. The defence called Mr. Rajinder Sihota, who is a senior accountant with the Ministry of Finance. He testified that on February 13th, 1989 he was in a police station in the Punjab with respect to a complaint concerning Gurbakash Sihota, the witness called for the plaintiff who alleged the conspiracy meeting. Mr. Rajinder Sihota testified that the plaintiffs witness was not only in the Punjab on the 13th February, but had been there for some time. Logistically it would not have been possible for him to be in Victoria on February lIth due to time changes and travelling time. Mr. Rajinder Sihota also testified that the plaintiffs witness Sihota was a cousin of his and had a bad reputation. In addition, he had information that his cousin had been in the Punjab for a few months at that time. The defence's position can be summarized as a complete denial of the allegation of defamation or of a conspiracy. With respect to the counterclai:t;n, the defence claims that the evidence of the defendants should be accepted and that the Court should find that the plaintiff sexually assaulted the female defendant. I have to assess the credibility of the various witnesses called and also consider the tape recordings which have been led in evidence and the allegation by the defence that the plaintiffs tape recordings have been tampered with and are, in fact, extracts from other conversations taken out of context. The defence also takes the position that the tape recordings that have been produced by the defence make it quite clear that the plaintiff admitted to the sexual assault. Both the plaintiff and the defence called evidence of experts dealing with the authenticity of the tapes. The defendants' expert listened to the tapes and conducted sound tests. In my view, his evidence should be preferred to that of the plaintiffs expert, who did not carry out this testing. The conclusion of the defendants' expert is that the tape of the plaintiff was not prepared, as he testified, by using a tape recorder or answering machine and speaking to an answering machine and telephone, but that in fact all the conversations were taken from a telephone line. I find this evidence credible. I accept it and conclude that the tape prepared by the plaintiff has been concocted by him and not recorded as he testified. Listening to the defendants' tapes with the assistance of the witnesses and the interpreter persuades me that the inference to be taken from them is that the plaintiff admitted to sexually assaulting the female defendant and that the Committee was well justified in accepting the evidence of Mrs. Bhullar and the tapes in concluding that the plaintiff had sexually assaulted her. With respect to the alleged meeting between the executives at Mr. Sihota's house, I conclude that this evidence was fabricated and quite untrue and I accept the evidence of Mr. Rajinder Sihota called for the defence that the plaintiffs witness Sihota was in fact in the Punjab at the time when the supposed conversation and conspiracy took place. I conclude therefore that the plaintiff has failed to prove his allegation of a wrongful accusation of sexual assault and find that in fact the sexual assault did take place. The plaintiffs action is accordingly dismissed with costs. With respect to the counterclaim, I find that the defendants have proved their counterclaim and that the plaintiff in fact sexually assaulted the female defendant. The plaintiff - who, as a priest in a position of authority and influence, sexually assaulted a female parishioner in the tight-knit society of the Sikh community in Victoria - is guilty of an extremely serious offence. DAMAGES The counterclaim is advanced by both Bhullars against the plaintiff for the sexual assault. It is my view that the only one who can succeed in the counterclaim is Mrs. Bhullar. The defendant argues as if there is a counterclaim for defamation of character as well as sexual assault, but in fact that is not what the pleadings disclose. In any event, a case has not been made out to entitle Mr. Bhullar to damages. With respect to general damages for the sexual assault, I have to bear in mind the gravity of the assault, the circumstances of it, and its effect on Mrs. Bhullar. In this case, unlike a number of others where damages have been sought for sexual assault, the assault is of a comparatively minor nature in the sense that there was only the one incident, as opposed to cases where the assault was a rape or a similar crime of violence, or assaults on younger people, that have often continued over a number of years. Little is to be gained by trying to compare damages in cases that are not similar to the case at bar, so I do not propose to review the current authorities which are not bountiful. What I have to deal with here is an assault by a priest in the living quarters of a Sikh temple upon a parishioner who was requested to attend by the priest, who is the plaintiff. The emotional impact of the forceful touching of the plaintiffs chest and the attempt to take off her stockings is not only offensive but appalling, particularly as the priest in the Sikh religion is held in high esteem and the utmost in decorum is expected of him. He was in a position of trust and abused that trust. The assault was made possible because of the respect of Mrs. Bhullar for the plaintiff as priest and her being at the temple at all was at his request. With respect to the consequences or the effect on Mrs. Bhullar, there is very little evidence before me other than her feelings of humiliation, shock and degradation. There do not appear to be any serious after-effects other than distaste for the whole matter. Consequently, it is my view that the damages should reflect the seriousness of the assault but damages in other more serious cases should be borne in mind to keep a balanced perspective of damages under this head. To some extent the impact on Mrs Bhullard is lessened, as her success in this lawsuit vindicates her and face is saved in a society where it is very important. By the same token, the plaintiff is discredited and has lost all respect and credibility in his community. I award general damages to Mrs. Bhullar in the amount of $5,000.00 for the sexual assault. A claim has been advanced for punitive damages. In this case it is my view that it is appropriate that punitive damages be awarded. They are not awarded on the basis of compensation but on the principle of punishment. In this case no criminal proceedings were launched, although the Bhullars did report the matter to the police, who left it to the Sikh community to sort out the matter and did not proceed with charges. Consequently, the element of punishment of the plaintiff for his conduct has not been addressed. In this case punitive damages need be awarded to express society's disapproval of the conduct of the plaintiff as a priest in authority and trust breaching that trust and sexually assaulting a parishioner. His attempting, after that, to manufacture evidence and shift the blame away from himself and his harassment of Mrs. Bhullar is despicable. I award the sum of $5,000.00 as punitive damages. Mrs. Bhullar will have her costs of the counterclaim and pre-judgment interest at the rate set by the Registrar from time to time. MACDONELL J. (JUDGE) Because they are gurnindaks and hence sangat by and large do not wentertain them. Instaed of doing any missionary work their efforts are to destroy the sikh history. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaheguruseekr Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I'm guessing it was deleted because it's an outright lie. Every Sikh here believes gurgaddi was given to Sri Guru Granth Sahib, and the panktis that Ullo Ka shick or Kala Afghana ki navel Fuzz (or whatever it calls itself now) quoted to prove that 5 kakaar rehat is contained in Sri Guru Granth Sahib do no such thing (unless of course you have the really, really super "special" and unique understanding of the Adi Granth that only it has). K. Keep on guessing.:-). Thanks for being honest that you do not have facts,hence guesswork becomes one's speciality. Tejwant Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Kala Afgana has NEVER claimed to be anybody’s Guru and his books shook up Sampardavan who were trying to bring Hindutava into Sikhi under the name of various Granths! His books also show that 1) Waheguru is not Gurmantra and Gurmantra is not required for a sikh 2) Naam simran is a bogus act. 3) There is no atma 4) there is reincarnation and hence karma is irrelevant. 5) Sikhism has nothing to do with mystical experiences etc etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 What about ghagha who is a super missionary. he was jailed for stealing cable when he was a driver with Punjab state electricity board. Is it a good thing in missionary terminology? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Keep on guessing.:-). Thanks for being honest that you do not have facts,hence guesswork becomes one's speciality. Tejwant Singh Keep on making accusations, since it's pretty much the only thing you Kala Afghana chelas are capable of doing. K. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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