Namdharis On Sikh Channel?

[amardeep]

haha bhai randip singh is truly an anti-akj'er ..

[fatehsingh]

For those who can read Gurmukhi, see attached. May clear some baseless/hateful propagandas particularly with regards to the much wrongfully mentioned 'Pattar Path beadbi theory'. But as the Satguru said towards the end, Bhala Kaho, Bhave Bura Kaho, Ham Tan Dio Hai Dtaar. So as always, take it or leave it.

By the way N30, why do you have to always compare Namdharis to Radhaswamis and insult Radhaswamis to make Namdharis look more appealing? lol I've seen you done this a couple of times now. I don't think it's the only way people can understand things. More disturbing is that many of the things you say about the Radhasoamis isn't even true (I think). The pink sharbat thing etc wasn't that Sacha Sauda and not Radhasoami? Same thing with the claim about the verse in Anand Sahib. I could be wrong, but I don't know much about Radhasoamis so I won't comment further.

[randip singh]

haha bhai randip singh is truly an anti-akj'er ..

oh dear, please doon't call me a Bhai or eople will start making offering at my house and start worshipping me.

I must admit I am anti-Bhai/Jatha/Baba type organisations, and I wasn't actually thinking about AKJ specifically when I wrote this, but some other organisations.

[chatanga1]

Fateh Singh, do you equate the seperation of nitnem banis with the Patra Paath of Sant-Khalsa?

[fatehsingh]

Fateh Singh, do you equate the seperation of nitnem banis with the Patra Paath of Sant-Khalsa?

See your PM.

[amardeep]

I think taksali panj pyare say that naamdharis are a part of the ones you should'n associate with. i know someone who took amrit from panj pyare and they were told not to associate with naamdharis

[fatehsingh]

I think taksali panj pyare say that naamdharis are a part of the ones you should'n associate with. i know someone who took amrit from panj pyare and they were told not to associate with naamdharis

There's always this 'friend of mine' story lol. You lot are worse than bollywood drama actors! Apparently Baba Hari Singhji Randhawe Wale of Damdami Taksal (don't know if there are different types of 'taksal' so my apologies in advance if he doesn't belong to the one you are referring to.) wasn't told that or wasn't part of the 'Panj' who gave your 'friend' the Amrit as he has great respect for his 'Namdhari brothers' for championing Dasam Banis and their recitations. Kam1825 will be able to share more if he cares to.

[Kam1825]

Fateh Singh you are correct that Baba Hari Singh Ji are from Taksal and have great respect and love for the namdharis. It was actually them who brought me a copy of Master Darshan Singh Ji's Uggardanti recording. Sant Hari SIngh Ji love the vidiya of raag from the namdharis as well as their shudh ucharans of dasam bani and bhai nand lal ji's works. After the live tv debate they had with kala afganas associates in canada he was surprised to see that outside the studio was large crowds of Namdharis waiting to greet them due to the indifferences the namdharis have had with the kala afgana crowd twisting bani in support of a meat diet.

Sant Hari Singh Ji regards the namdharis as a brothers to the sampardai sikhs. brothers are of the same family and always have a few different faith but in essence are family and show a mutual love for one another

[chatanga1]

Udasis belive the Gurus to be incarnations of Vishnu whereas the Nirmalas say he is the incarnation of Akal Purakh etc

They never used to. they onlystarted that rubbish after they were forced out of control of gurdwaras.

And I took amrit form taksal. They never said anything against Sant-Khalsa specifically.

[randip singh]

Do Namdhari's believe in the Gurudwara at Hazoor Sahib, because surely they cannot if they believe Guru Gobind Singh ji lived on?

[fatehsingh]

Do Namdhari's believe in the Gurudwara at Hazoor Sahib, because surely they cannot if they believe Guru Gobind Singh ji lived on?

This has been discussed before. PM me if you can't find the thread.

[Kaljug]

Udasis belive the Gurus to be incarnations of Vishnu whereas the Nirmalas say he is the incarnation of Akal Purakh etc

By the way, Vishnu is believed to be another name for Nirguna Brahman in some schools of Indian philosophy (e.g., Dvait Vedanta) so the Udasis may be saying the same thing as the Nirmalas, depending upon what school of philosophy they follow.

K.

[Guest]

Recently organizers of Sikh Channel made a final decision to ban namdharis on Sikh channel after the kirtan performance by raj academy which had few namdharis performers there as well on stage:

Here is the official response from Sikh channel:

The executive committee at the Sikh Channel have been discussing this issue for a couple of weeks - there have been various reasons as to why it has taken a little bit longer than we had hoped to sort this issue out. As a result of these discussions, Naamdharis have been banned from appearing on air. Raj Academy have been informed of this decision and have agreed to comply by this ruling.

We know it may not please everyone, but the Sikh Channel took the step that anyone associated with groups or sects that go against the belief that Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the living Guru of the Sikhs or who may have betrayed our Guru in the past will not be allowed on air.

We ask you all to support us in this decision and hope we can now let this issue rest and continue spreading the Word of Gurbani far and wide using this popular media format.

Please note, Naamdharis are not the only ones who have been banned under this ruling - Meene, Masand, Ram Raieeay, Dhir Maleeay and Gangu Shaheeay have also been banned along with others at our discretion.

The Sikh Channel reserves the right to refuse guests any air time at any time.

Please discuss..!

[fatehsingh]

Recently organizers of Sikh Channel made a final decision to ban namdharis on Sikh channel after the kirtan performance by raj academy which had few namdharis performers there as well on stage:

Here is the official response from Sikh channel:

Please discuss..!

Who cares. Their loss. End of discussion. I really hope they would ban those who LEARN KIRTAN AND PATH OF ADI/DASAM GRANTH SAHIBS FROM NAMDHARIS also.

[tonyhp32]

Fateh Singh you are correct that Baba Hari Singh Ji are from Taksal and have great respect and love for the namdharis. It was actually them who brought me a copy of Master Darshan Singh Ji's Uggardanti recording. Sant Hari SIngh Ji love the vidiya of raag from the namdharis as well as their shudh ucharans of dasam bani and bhai nand lal ji's works. After the live tv debate they had with kala afganas associates in canada he was surprised to see that outside the studio was large crowds of Namdharis waiting to greet them due to the indifferences the namdharis have had with the kala afgana crowd twisting bani in support of a meat diet.

Sant Hari Singh Ji regards the namdharis as a brothers to the sampardai sikhs. brothers are of the same family and always have a few different faith but in essence are family and show a mutual love for one another

The classic 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' strategy A very short sighted and dangerous strategy!

[tonyhp32]

I for one am glad that Sikh Channel made the correct decision. Namdharis are on a par with Meenas and Ram Raiyas for their refusal to acknowledge Guru Granth Sahib as Guru and their creation of doubt in the life story of Guru Gobind Singh.

Sikh Channel hasn't lost anything. It might lead to a few hissy fits by Namdharis on here and other forum but Namdharis need to realise that Sikh resources cannot be used to visually promote Namdharis.

[shaheediyan]

Ustaad Surjit Singh and Ranbhir Singh are Tanti Saaj teachers, rather than Raag Vidya/Gurbani/Ithihaas teachers within the Raj Academy under-graduate programmes. Their involvement on stage is generally as instrumentalists with Prof being the main singer/leader.

I can see that most Gurdwarai don't want Namdhari to perform due to a Vedantis edict and their general rule of Guru Granth Sahib, but Namdhari who perform kirtan at Gurdwarai always matthatek to Maharaj - take from that what you will.

The main question I suppose is this - Sikh Channel is a studio and not a Gurdwara, so should this mentality still apply?

Personally I thought Sikh channel would have been an excellent platform for different groups to share knowledge on mutually respected area, as well as provide a platform for intellectual debate between differing Sikh groups, it would have been a great opportunity for many groups to learn tolerance and love for each other, whic is the basis of affecting change (you know, that thing), but sadly, I see the Sikh Channel rapidly becoming just another part of the 'Sikh Sangat' media empire!

I can't see that 'real' Nihang, Nirmala or Udasin thoughts and parchaar will be allowed for similar reasons i.e. upsetting the mainstream cube. we can also foget about hosting the last of the Rababis for similar reasons.

[amardeep]

I hope to see deep vichaar on this channel.. there was a young singh in bana who made refferences to suraj parkash granth. unfortunately i had to go so i did not have time to hear what he had to say..

what is the reason Baba Sukha Singh, tsingh and others have'nt appeared in the studio yet.

[fatehsingh]

I hope to see deep vichaar on this channel.. there was a young singh in bana who made refferences to suraj parkash granth. unfortunately i had to go so i did not have time to hear what he had to say..

what is the reason Baba Sukha Singh, tsingh and others have'nt appeared in the studio yet.

I'm sure that will be banned very soon as well. Suraj Parkash, Panth Parkash, Pracheen Panth Parkash, Prem Sumarag (which mentions REPEATEDLY the UNHOLY and completely UNACCEPTABLE, not to mention Meena, Masands, M&Ms and Mohammadon-like thought of the Guru's RETURN), all contain 'anti panthic' and 'fanciful' Sakhis that will destroy the much beloved and unchallengeable by law version of Sikhism. Like I said, I really hope they will be honest enough to also ban those who learn Raag/Kirtan/Gurbani from Namdharis. Otherwise what's the point of banning white Bana and Gurmukhi Dastaar? Even non-Namdharis seem to be wearing them more and more these days; a disgusting fashion show act btw which needs to be stopped. The Namdhari's devilish contribution/parchaar won't be stopped unless these artists who associate themselves with 'anti-sikh' elements, and should go pesh, are also banned, unless they go pesh ofcourse.

hissy hissy fitty fitty....

[Guest]

In my personal opinion, I think the reasons Sikh Channel decided to ban namdharis-

a.) they are very new channel like to make a image in sangat without any controversies.

b.) Their mixed actions all along appears that they were under pressure from youth and just to please the youths with rigid mindset

Oblivious of namdharis history and their relationship to the panth in puratan times. In India, you won't see this happening.

Few thoughts on sri akaal takth sahib hakumnama by vedanti on this-

a.) first of all no one can be 100% certain - when vedanti wrote the hakumnama , namdharis were indeed mentioned in context. It's just we like to draw parallelism, there are certain things in hakumnama does not apply to them for instances, hakumnama talks about a person who does not beleive in sri guru granth sahib amrit cannot do kirtan. Well, namdharis beleive in gurbani - shabad guru- gurbani is on their lips and they beleive in amrit. They take khanda da amrit.

b.) Lets give benefit of doubt to vedanti sahib, lets say even if he kept namdharis in mind when he wrote the hakumnama and signed it. It doesn't help the suitation when he goes around attend namdharis programs. May be fatehsingh can share more, all these sgpc leaders who call themselves singh sabhias pass resolution/hakumnamas against groups, end up attending functions of the groups.

Amardeep, I don't think it's good idea tsingh should go there. I strongly believe, they made their final decision based on pressure from youths stuck in rigid mindset. Lets see even if tsingh end up in studio with nirmal bhek on, next day these youths will obviously find some faults in outer grab of speakers and make an issue out of it - oh look sikh channel now invitings hindus or rss oh look he is wearing mala. Absolutely ridiculous.

on a side note: I believe sukha singh ji will find a warm seat in Sikh Channel without any doubt. But last time i spoke to him on the phone, he cannot be bothered with all this politics.

[Guest]

Somebody bought interesting observation on ss forum, if namdharis are banned then what about akj?

are akjs banned from sikh channel as well as they have "destroyed", rejected raag mala GURBANI. i suppose this is a physical challenge to our guru sahibs as this goes against gurbani itself

"That person who does not respect and fear Gurbani cannot be my Sikh."

hence akj do not fear a certain part of gurbani as they clearly have created a first degree insult againt raagmala.

fateh

And their response:

We dont have the time to sit on forums answering questions all day unfortunately. We are already short of sevadars, which is disheartening when we see so many Singhs and Singhnia from our local area spending most their time on forums rather than being proactive and actually coming down and volunteering to help us out.

If anyone wants to discuss our policies or any of the issues any further, you can message me and we will arrange a meeting with the station executive panel for you to air your concerns. Thank you.

[amardeep]

i just hope the channels does'nt end up promoting akjism ...

the sikh channel is a massive contribution to sikh parchar in the west.... we should all support it in order to improove it..

[fatehsingh]

b.) Lets give benefit of doubt to vedanti sahib, lets say even if he kept namdharis in mind when he wrote the hakumnama and signed it. It doesn't help the suitation when he goes around attend namdharis programs. May be fatehsingh can share more, all these sgpc leaders who call themselves singh sabhias pass resolution/hakumnamas against groups, end up attending functions of the groups.

Nah, too painful everytime I look at those pictures of the 'Soorme' and 'Cherdikalla' goodsikhs losing their mind temporarily and associating with Namdharis. It is all politics and winning votes. Around the early 2000's, Vedanti was pressured by his illiterate following who don't have the courage to read Namdhari books to blindly 'ban, ban, ban' the Namdharis especially the book 'Purakh Guru' written 30 years ago IN RESPONSE to Ganda Singh's anti-Namdhari parchar. So Vedanti, who himself is not a dumbo and does know a thing or two calls in his friend Hanspal to talk about the issue. Both politicians agreed there was nothing wrong with the book's message as it was only written as a 'response' but problem arose when Ganda Singh had no response himself and let the book fester long after his death with its audience being the countless Gurmukhi readers that are hiding in every household. So being the excellent politicians that they were, they kept the agreement strictly out of the press only indicating they had a 'productive meeting'. But ofcourse, once Hanspal was out of sight out of mind, who cares about them Namdharis, add them to the list just like we did when the British were in power and sign it! I'll go apologize for the mistake and promise an amendment for my next re-election when I go speak at the next Namdhari Shaheedi Mela in Amritsar!

[shaheediyan]

Adding to Fateh Singhs request for all detracting Singhs who have had contact with the 'N' to be quarantined outside the studio...

Maybe our self appointed Dharam-Raj Singhs would be interested in knowing that our Kirtan heroes and legends Bhai Balbir Snigh and Bhai Avtar Singh, had open contact with 'N', have performed at Namdhari Melas and have even shared compositions.

Aside from Professor Surinder Singh (who learnt tanti Saaj from 'N'), Harjinder Singh Lallie who leads the Gurmat Sangeet effort in the Midlands also learns from 'N'.

The future of kirtan is looking extremely gloomy if Fateh Singhs request manifests.....

[tonyhp32]

Fatehsingh

Stop trying to portray Namdharis as the victims. Your people have been playing a mischevious role since the death of Baba Ram Singh. They have invented sakhis about Guru Gobind Singh in order to create doubts about the Guru passing Guruship onto the Guru Granth Sahib. There have been occasions when Sikhs have attempted to deal with your fake Gurudom but the politicians have always got in the way especially after your pattar path episode in the 40s.

The Sikh channel has every right to vet those who want to do Kirtan on the channel. Unlike the politicians like Badal who for the votes of a few namdharis will kiss the backside of your so-called Guru, the Sikh channel has shown some backbone and taken a stand and long may it continue. As for your story about Vedanti and Hanspal, it seems you guys are experts at creating such stories. FYI, it was the Sangat that forced Vedanti to act as he is well known to dance to Badal's tune and was quite happy for dambhis to flourish at the cost Sikhi as long as he had his air conditioned car and as long as he could come abroad and act like the Pope of the Sikhs!

The present Sikh religious authorities will always look for a way out of a situation and it is only the Sangat which forces them to take action. They would much rather hold a meeting, take no concrete decision, use the excuse of an upcoming occasion such as Baisakhi, Diwali, Hola Mohalla etc as the reason for not taking a concrete decision. Then they will fix a further meeting and the agitation is left in a limbo. Meanwhile the politicians will work behind the scenes to work out a compromise that will allow the dambhis to cool things for a while until they next feel strong enough to challenge Sikhi. This is what has happened in the Sacha Sauda episode and this is what happened with the mischevious book Purakh Guru.