SAadmin Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 source: sikhsangat.com VaheguruJiKaKhalsaVaheguruJiKiFateh! Re: Saturday 19.45 9 May, a naamdhari is doing live katha on the Sikh Channel. If Akal Takht Sahib have issued Hukumnamas forbidding followers of dehdhari gurus to sit on our Gurdwara stages, shouldn't the Sikh Channel be responsible enough to NOT put an obvious naamdhari on the prime time live tv slot allowing him to do katha??? No offence to the naamdhari, but the Sikh Channel must take responsiblity of who they allow on the TV channel or expect a reaction from the sangat!! VaheguruJiKaKhalsaVaheguruJiKiFateh! Reponse from Sikh Channel representative Vaheguru jee ka Khalsa. Vaheguru jee kee Fateh. We are aware of the issues and Sikh Channel panel decided to give the speaker a chance. We had conditions which he adhered to. If anyone wants more information, they can send us a PM on this forum and we can provide you with more information. His parchaar, his speech was actually quite good and having personally sat there and listened to it all, i learnt a lot from it myself. To summarise a few points, the speaker was willing to say the Guru's fateh (beginning and end) and we vetted his entire speech before he went on - the producers were sitting with their fingers on the cut button ready to cut in case anything wrong was said at all. He even changed his appearance there and then for us. He is on youtube : Part 1 : Part 2 : If anyone can find him doing parchaar which is pro-naamdhari or anti-Sikhi, then please let us know. If not, lets look beyond the looks and take away something positive from the parchaar. There are a lot of friction between organisations and individuals in the panth. Its our policy to give people chances. Yes, there are certain groups which are blatently ex communicated from the panth and as such, we do not allow them on despite them attempting to get on air. Forgive our mistakes and please continue to keep helping us. We do value your input and all suggestions and comments in this thread and others are taken on board. Vaheguru jee ka Khalsa. Vaheguru jee kee Fateh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 My personal view: People should leave their paranoia and insecurity out for second, at least listen to what this man has to say before getting knickers in twist. Famous quote from scholar that all jathebandiyas/samparda's have a mutual respect: Bhai kahn singh nabha writes: "When the Sikhs, the Nihangs, Sehaj Dhari, Nirmalla's, Namdharis, and Udasi's see themselves as the sons of the same father. The Gurudwara reform movement would be over" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Here is another one of my personal observation, this one is quite classic. Our soo called pardhans, organizers of the gurdwara, youth committee's have no problem inviting liberal, conservatives, democratic, Republicans MPs/MLA/Leaders on the sikh stage to share their political drama/few words yet having problem with namdharis doing neutral parchar of sikhism on sikh channel? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Fateh, Veer ji! You make some good points. The naamdhari's talk was excellent - knowledgeable, inspiring and in absolute accord with Sikhi. It was very honourable of him to change his dress and use the traditional Khalsa greeting at the request of the producers. Indeed, the naamdharis have retained many wonderful puratan Sikh traditions alive such as Gurmat sangeet with traditional instruments, they have a deep knowledge of raag, and they still practice the tradition of reciting Chandi bani as part of their nitnem. But the fact remains that in rejecting the Gurgaddi of Ad Sri Guru Granth Sahib in favour of their dehdari guru, they are no different to the Minas, Dhir Malias and the Ram Raiyas who are anathema to Sikhs. K. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 As Imam Ali Said: Do not look at the one who is speaking but listen to what he says. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Where can i find the speech given on the sikh channel? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Few misconceptions hope to clear way- It's a major misconception that they do beadhi of sri guru granth sahib ji- shabad guru or don't consider bani being guru, they may not follow 100 percent outer parkash maryada(which is sad because they used to in all namdharis gurdwaras as i have seen pictures of puratan namdharis darbar) but regardless gurbani is on their lips both gurbani from sri guru granth sahib ji and sri dasam granth sahib ji. I dont find anything wrong with their emphasis more on shabad guru than physical form of guru. After all our main aim is to merge with nirankar with shabad guru. What is bani? Sri guru maharaj says: Vaho Vaho Bani Nirankar Hai || Shabad Guru Surat Dhun Chela || They fully beleive that bani is only link with Nirankar. All their nitneem, naam simran all comes from sri guru granth sahib ji and sri dasam granth. They fully beleive in concept of shabad guru. Mind you they don't push their satguru (11, 12, 13) praises as gurbani in their darbar because their guru's have always taught them to read, learn, listen, abhyas of gurbani from sri guru granth sahib ji, sri dasam granth. Even physical form of guru which is physical sri guru granth sahib is there to show you inside essence which is shabad guru/bhramgyan. I dont have problem with them putting more emphasis on shabad guru which they do in their daily nitneem(panj/das granthi) and monthly akhand patts. Only problem i have and i will ever have with namdharis is the sri gobind singh ji successcor lineage issue- i firmly beleive sri guru gobind singh passed his gurgaddi to sri guru granth sahib ji but they do otherwise, and i respect their belief, leave that differences aside like all the other samparda's do and live like brothers. Looking at the sad state of affairs right now modern days groups rejecting dasam bani, bhai gurdas ji varan , bhagata di bani, samparda's, doing nindya of real sants.. I appreciate namdharis more than them for keeping traditions alive along with nihangs and nirmale. Traditions like- Sri dasam granth akhand patt, gurmat sangit maryada, shastar vidya, observing strict daily maryada. I fully beleive in that, baba ram singh ji ji wrote letters that said that he was not a GURU, but you have to remember, all the great mahapursh from namdhari samparda they dont consider themselves Guru poran Avtar unlike radhaswami guru who twist gurbani to suit their own needs (eg- anand sahib puri on sant sajan bhai sarsaie ) or mock amrit sanchar intiation, or mock sri guru gobind singh potrait by sobha singh. Namdharis fully beleive in shabad guru in tri form- aad guru granth sahib, sri dasam granth, sri sarbloh granth and dont have any their rest of guru's writing nor their claim that is gurbani but anmol bachan. Radhaswamis have pick and choose gurbani to suit their own needs(they claim guru amar das ji refered to their dera- sarsa in anand sahib), they add their guru's writing and claim it gurbani, they are simply creationg of arya samajis, in this regard- namdharis are far better more align with samparda's than radhaswamis who are heretic group. - Namdharis follow strict amrit vela maryada, akhand patt maryada both sri guru granth sahib ji and sri dasam granth sahib ji, all are strict keshadaris, whereas radhaswami don't since they pick and choose from idealogy of sikhs. - Namdharis traditions seems more consistent from their guru's to guru's than radhaswamis, traditions like- gurmat sangeet reetiyan going back to guru sahib time, naam dridh akhand patt of sri guru granth sahib ji, sri dasam granth sahib, chandi di var pats. Other hostile groups traditions gets changed as soon they have new guru. - Namdharis have amrit sanchar intiation with panj singhs giving amrit and gupt naam which is vahiguroo anyway no mixture of mantars like radhaswamis pick one from gurbani and rest add their own, mix khalsa initiations and add their own- recent-pink sarbat which was outrageous too see. - Namdharis especially their guru's in bhaini sahib had sri guru granth sahib ji fully parkash, i saw that picture myself which my friend showed, satkar was fully given, they all matha taik to first their guru then shabad guru because for them their guru is their ishat dev, gurbani is shabad guru in tri form.. i really wish all the namdharis gurudwara should have parkash of sri guru granth sahib as bhaini sahib, as i saw myself in the picture.. i am willing to even scan picture if people like to see. - Namdharis as a group have always sided with khalsa panth from the history with an exception of 1984 time, they have always sided with sarbat khalsa- attain shaheediya read their history, help implement sgpc maryada which many sikhs followed, namdharis were invited along with nirmal, udasi, nihang, taksali , akj to implement an maryada. All the takth jathedars along with most sampardava's- nirmal/nihangs/udasi/sevapanthis, master tara singh, sri singh sahib yogi bhajan, bhai avtar singh ji raagi, sant jawala singh ji harkhowale, sant baba isher singh ji rara sahib wale, sant waryam singh ji also have immense respect for namdharis. Sri hazoor sahib jathedar had immense respect for baba ram singh ji namdhari. Namdharis are not heretic far from it,everything else they do, believe, read, interact with is very much sikhi. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 "" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 sorry i think you are right, its guru granth sahib ji and sri dasam granth sahib ji. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 My personal view: People should leave their paranoia and insecurity out for second, at least listen to what this man has to say before getting knickers in twist. Famous quote from scholar that all jathebandiyas/samparda's have a mutual respect: Bhai kahn singh nabha writes: "When the Sikhs, the Nihangs, Sehaj Dhari, Nirmalla's, Namdharis, and Udasi's see themselves as the sons of the same father. The Gurudwara reform movement would be over" Neo Which book is that quote from? and what is the context in which Bhai Sahib wrote this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.RajKaregaKhalsa.Net Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 true say N30, theres no pyaar these days one love 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Fateh jio! Does anyone know whether the Sants and Mahapurush of the traditional Sikh sampardas have contact with the current living Namdhari guru? Has anyone like Sant Jagjit Singh Harkhowale met with him or commented on their guru? Also, does anyone know if the Namdharis expect the guru lineage to come to an end after a certain number of human gurus, or do they fully expect the lineage to continue forever? Regards, K. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Its most likely Naveen Panth Parkash, that is where Gianin Gian Singh has written about Nirmalai, Nihangs and Namdhari. As far as I know, Baba Ram Singh is supposed to return in replacement of the present Namdhari Guru. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 I have been reading Sau Sakhi Steek by Bhai Partap Singh of Mehta. Within his tremendous research he refers now and again Namdhari sau sakhis and shows an immense respect for the Namdhari movement. Amongst the Sampradai literature where reference has been made to Namdhari I have always seen the Namdhari Gurus addressed as Mahraja, i.e. Maharaja Partap Singh Ji. There seems to have always been respect between Mahapursh of different sampradai and the Namdhari, not sure if this still exists amongst the present generation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 kaljug most sants have a good relationship with the namdharis, sant jagjit singh ji actually did katha at bheni sahib while i was in india to the namdhari sangat. they and sant davinder singh ji do this quite often 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 kaljug most sants have a good relationship with the namdharis, sant jagjit singh ji actually did katha at bheni sahib while i was in india to the namdhari sangat. they and sant davinder singh ji do this quite often That's interesting. What does Sant Jagjit Singh think of Namdhari claims of that their gurus were given Gurgaddi and not Sri Guru Granth Sahib? Has he commented on this issue or does he ignore this and concentrate on the similarities? What do you think differentiates Naamdharis from those groups among the Panj Mel with whom a Sikh is forbidden to associate because they tried to claim the Gurgaddi for themselves? Regards, K. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Sant Jagjit SIngh Ji and other Mahapursh all believe in the gurgaddi being given to Sri Guru GRanth Sahib Ji. To be honest most sants are interested in the internal quest and the assistance they can provide to jagiasoo's on an adhiyatmik level. Sants like all gurmukhs accept that all is in the will of the Lord and the Lord is the one doing everything including creating jathebandis like the namdharis. It is all in the will of god. If God creates them then it is up to the lord to nourish, sustain and eventually destroy. this is the case with every faith, human being and creation of the Lord. If god did not wish for it, then it would not exists. We get involved in petty squabbles due to being entangled in the web of maya. Worry about your own spiritual enlightenment rather then worry about issues that do not assist it. I think personally as sikhs we should look at the sanatan faith where you geth shivites, vaishnaves, smartas, etc and look at how they all worry about their own spiritually well being rather then insulting, ruidiculing and harassing other groups who do not have the same spiritual thoughts and background as them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Neo Which book is that quote from? and what is the context in which Bhai Sahib wrote this? I got this quote from conversation i had with kamalroop singh on msn long long time ago. I am not sure which book is it from.. I will find it out for you soon though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 I think personally as sikhs we should look at the sanatan faith where you geth shivites, vaishnaves, smartas, etc and look at how they all worry about their own spiritually well being rather then insulting, ruidiculing and harassing other groups who do not have the same spiritual thoughts and background as them. That's true. People need to have more respect for each other. Sikhs always seems to be fighting with one another without forcussing on what really matters i.e. Parmatma dhi prapati. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Sant Jagjit SIngh Ji and other Mahapursh all believe in the gurgaddi being given to Sri Guru GRanth Sahib Ji. To be honest most sants are interested in the internal quest and the assistance they can provide to jagiasoo's on an adhiyatmik level. Sants like all gurmukhs accept that all is in the will of the Lord and the Lord is the one doing everything including creating jathebandis like the namdharis. It is all in the will of god. If God creates them then it is up to the lord to nourish, sustain and eventually destroy. this is the case with every faith, human being and creation of the Lord. If god did not wish for it, then it would not exists. We get involved in petty squabbles due to being entangled in the web of maya. Worry about your own spiritual enlightenment rather then worry about issues that do not assist it. I think personally as sikhs we should look at the sanatan faith where you geth shivites, vaishnaves, smartas, etc and look at how they all worry about their own spiritually well being rather then insulting, ruidiculing and harassing other groups who do not have the same spiritual thoughts and background as them. Fateh! Surely the same thing can be said of the Ram Raiyas, Dhir Malias etc - that they were created by the Lord's will. Actually, the same thing can be said of any situation, it doesn't really provide any useful answers. It was still Guru Ji's hukam that Sikhs have nothing to do with these groups because they tried to claim the Gurgaddi for themselves, and I wonder why some believe that the same does not apply to the Namdharis who make the same claims. From a personal point of view, I can't imagine anything worse happening to Sikhi than it turning into another version of Hinduism where the philosophies are so widely divergent that it is possible to be called a Hindu yet believe in exactly the opposite things of another Hindu. I too would like to see the traditional Sikh Sampardas to be accepted again into the Sikh fold by the whole of the Sikh Panth. Regards, K. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 as far as i know ,there are huge divisions and disaggrement on basic issues between the samprdays.. i think their view on God, Sikhi, the Guru, Hinduism etc are different from samprdaya to samprdaya 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 as far as i know ,there are huge divisions and disaggrement on basic issues between the samprdays.. i think their view on God, Sikhi, the Guru, Hinduism etc are different from samprdaya to samprdaya Please shed more light on this?. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Udasis belive the Gurus to be incarnations of Vishnu whereas the Nirmalas say he is the incarnation of Akal Purakh etc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 That is because the udasis focus on ishwar of which there are 5 sargun forms while the nirmalas focus on the nirgun paramishvar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randip singh Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 My personal view: People should leave their paranoia and insecurity out for second, at least listen to what this man has to say before getting knickers in twist. Famous quote from scholar that all jathebandiyas/samparda's have a mutual respect: Bhai kahn singh nabha writes: "When the Sikhs, the Nihangs, Sehaj Dhari, Nirmalla's, Namdharis, and Udasi's see themselves as the sons of the same father. The Gurudwara reform movement would be over" I must admit I find the actual personalities I have met of some Namdhari's I have met to be truly odious, but that is not to say all Namdhari's are bad. Some of their traditions focus to much on personality, and they use the word Guru to describe their leaders, but is that any different from these Jatha's that have so called Bhai's/Sants as leaders. All you have to do is substitute Bhai/Sant for Guru as a word. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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