Balbir Singh Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all! For more than two hundred years the reverend Gurus served God's Hukam in their living bodies. God's message is to do Naam Simran. Their wisdom got lost and a business called Sikhism started flourishing. The modern preachers are spreading today the totally opposite message. It is strange that they are earning throne, name, respect and fame for this. Please listen to the file attached and find it yourself. what_is_naam2.mp3 Balbir Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 First thing Balbir Singh is what are you trying to ask or trying to clarify on this thread as your quesion is not presented in a way i can understand what you are trying to state? maybe it is just me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all! For more than two hundred years the reverend Gurus served God's Hukam in their living bodies. God's message is to do Naam Simran. Their wisdom got lost and a business called Sikhism started flourishing. The modern preachers are spreading today the totally opposite message. It is strange that they are earning throne, name, respect and fame for this. Please listen to the file attached and find it yourself. what_is_naam2.mp3 Balbir Singh I am pretty sure the voice is not of Baba hari isngh randhawawale as claimed by you in another thread..Please provide the source so that we can hear full recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsingh00 Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 I am pretty sure that is baba hari singh (it sounds exactly like him), and i personally agree that those pracharaks that say bani is just updesh to jap naam are misguiding sangataan. Any katha i've lsitened to by sampardai gyanis and steeks/commentaries that I've read that were written more than 50 years ago have never reduced bani to the level of just being updesh to jap naam, and doing jap of gurmantar is where phal will come from. Perhaps in the past naam was not translated only as gurmantar. Baba Hari Singh said in that recording that as one reads bani, naam will automatically be absorbed inside of you. In bani Guru Sahib says Sukhmani sahib gives immortal (everlasting) sukh as well as 'prabh naam'. Sukhmani, sukh amrit; prabh naam. The last astpadee of sukhmani sahib can also be read to see if bani is only giving updesh to jap gurmantar. The power of bani is limitless and trying to tie it up to suit ones own motives can only be the work of the shiromani moorakh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted July 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all and Singh2 Jee! You wrote "I am pretty sure the voice is not of Baba hari isngh randhawawale as claimed by you in another thread..Please provide the source so that we can hear full recording." Have you stopped recognizing his voice? It is around 300 years back when the reverend Guru left their body. Since then, your Baabaas were regularly working to pollute the minds of simple heart people. After such long slavery the complete freedom cannot be tasted on the first day. Please let me know if you cannot find this lecture on Internet. Perhaps his PR company has removed it. I can send it to the moderator of this forum to download. ***** Sant Baabaa Jee seems to be worried about 'nuksaan'. Whose nuksaan he is talking about? ***** Sant Baabaa Jee also said 'mera Sikh jado baanee parhe ode andar naam apne aap andar naam parvesh kardaa jaae . . . ' Since when the Sikh is of this Baabaa. Also, I have not found one instant where Gurdev describes that way of Naam Parvesh. Balbir Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 That is Sant hari Singh Ji, you can find the full katha on gurmatveechar. i suggest you listen to the whole mp3 rather then the snippet as it does not sound right on its own. I think Gsingh00 has summed up what i would have said The Nuksaan is for the moderna day parcharaks twisting gurbani with their own ideals as we can see on this forum today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted July 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all and Kam1825 Jee! Thanks for your post. You wrote "That is Sant hari Singh Ji, you can find the full katha on gurmatveechar." I hope Singh2 Jee may get convinced also when he hears the full katha (story). Please provide the link as I could not find it on gurmatveechaar website. Quote " . . . i suggest you listen to the whole mp3 rather then the snippet as it does not sound right on its own." Does the meaning of these words from Sant Baabaa Hari Singh Randhawawale will change when someone hears the whole katha? Quote "The Nuksaan is for the moderna day parcharaks twisting gurbani with their own ideals as we can see on this forum today!" Are you sure he had in his mind a plan to damage other parcharaks while doing this katha? Have you heard this katha? I may take some time and exchange some more views on this katha if you are ready. I have never heard anybody earlier mixing the true Guru's words with statements from others in such a manner. I am not amused. Balbir Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 If it is baba randhawale then he is wrong. What he says is against sikh rehat maryada also where nam japna is specified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 This is ridiculous as gsingh pointed out, listen to the whole katha, one will see this portion which is taken out purposely, put back in its context. Misinterpretation is very grave thing, two countries can go to war because of misinterpretation. This reminds me of new technique that panthic.org uses audio guerrilla journalism, they are already famous for photo guerrilla journalism. I must request main author of this topic to post the whole katha where this portion is mentioned. Also veer singh2, nothing wrong what he said. He is talking about higher stages of simran where one does not need to actually make an effort or have forna that lets do simran, its happening automatically.. he just happen to put in very blunt terms. Obviously, it will irked maryada purushutam singhs on a panthic level who themselves haven't heard of higher stages of simran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navjot2 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 balbir i like your posts but we should be careful about doing ninda of people. even if we feel they are misguided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navjot2 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 i think the ideal kathak brings people closer to Sri Guru Granth, not acts as an intermediatary or insert their own or other peoples thinking. but have yet to see such a person giving a lecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all and Gsingh00 Jee! You wrote " . . . and i personally agree that those pracharaks that say bani is just updesh to jap naam are misguiding sangataan." Surely Reverend Gurus sing about many matters but those are all about the result of Jap Naam or not doing it. Quote " . . . sampardai gyanis and steeks/commentaries . . . have never reduced bani to the level of just being updesh to jap naam," The true Sikh (learning) from Gurdev is Jap Naam, not following any Samparda or reading steeks/commentaries. Rest all that reverend Gurus sing is the result of it. Quote "Baba Hari Singh said in that recording that as one reads bani, naam will automatically be absorbed inside of you." Please do this favor to the whole mankind. Provide one reference from the reverend Gurus where they say that 'as one reads bani, naam will automatically be absorbed inside of you'. I will also be grateful. Quote "The power of bani is limitless and trying to tie it up to suit ones own motives can only be the work of the shiromani moorakh." Whom will you put on the top of the shiromani moorakh list if the technique suggested by Baabaa Hari Singh Jee is completely against that what the true Gurus say? ***** Request from N30 S!NGH Jee "I must request main author of this topic to post the whole katha where this portion is mentioned." Moderator Ekta Jee and Kam1825 Jee have this kathaa and are playing a constructive role for this forum already. Please ask them first. Quote "Also veer singh2, nothing wrong what he said. He is talking about higher stages of simran where one does not need to actually make an effort or have forna that lets do simran, its happening automatically.. he just happen to put in very blunt terms." You may be right. Perhaps he was talking with the audience that has reached that state of consciousness. Quote "Obviously, it will irked maryada purushutam singhs on a panthic level who themselves haven't heard of higher stages of simran." Perhaps Balbir Singh is one of those who got irked when he heard Baabaa Jee saying 'eh galat parchaar hai es te viswaas na kar baithio, nuksaan hoegaa. jeRe log kehnde ne ji naam japnaa chahidaa baanee te naam japne da updes dendee hai galt baat hai onaa lokaaN dee. Gurmat to ult parchaar hai ona lokaa da. ja te ona noo bhalekhaa pai gaiaa hai ja jaan bujh ke sikhi da nuksaan karan lage ai. dona cho ik gal zaroor hai." ***** Quote from navjot2 Jee "balbir i like your posts but we should be careful about doing ninda of people. even if we feel they are misguided." My love, service and dedication toward true Sikhi are bigger than the conflicts with such preachers. Balbir Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Balbir Singh Jeeo, What is the naam that we are to jap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all and Shaheediyan Jee! It is not possible to transfer it by writing. It doesn't work by reading. Have you ever wondered why one remains thirsty after reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee many times? Balbir Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laalsingh Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all and Shaheediyan Jee! It is not possible to transfer it by writing. It doesn't work by reading. Have you ever wondered why one remains thirsty after reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee many times? Balbir Singh Balbir singh, Some people remained thirsty even after having company of Gurus, Jesus, Mohamad, Krishna. What are you trying to imply here? Only chosen ones have this thirst. Quenching will happen only when Waheguru wishes. You are promoting yourself or some other baba/swami? Please specify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 This is ridiculous as gsingh pointed out, listen to the whole katha, one will see this portion which is taken out purposely, put back in its context. Misinterpretation is very grave thing, two countries can go to war because of misinterpretation. This reminds me of new technique that panthic.org uses audio guerrilla journalism, they are already famous for photo guerrilla journalism. I must request main author of this topic to post the whole katha where this portion is mentioned. Also veer singh2, nothing wrong what he said. He is talking about higher stages of simran where one does not need to actually make an effort or have forna that lets do simran, its happening automatically.. he just happen to put in very blunt terms. Obviously, it will irked maryada purushutam singhs on a panthic level who themselves haven't heard of higher stages of simran. I agree we should not make our opinion before we listen to whole katha. Baba Hari singh is a gurmukh and he will not comment like that. Ajapa jap can only be sustained by daily practice of nam jap. There is no substitute for naam jap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Balbir singh, Some people remained thirsty even after having company of Gurus, Jesus, Mohamad, Krishna. What are you trying to imply here? Only chosen ones have this thirst. Quenching will happen only when Waheguru wishes. You are promoting yourself or some other baba/swami? Please specify. Balbir does not believe in word waheguru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekta Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Quote "The power of bani is limitless and trying to tie it up to suit ones own motives can only be the work of the shiromani moorakh." Whom will you put on the top of the shiromani moorakh list if the technique suggested by Baabaa Hari Singh Jee is completely against that what the true Gurus say? Balbir Singh Please provide proof. It is easy to criticize. Back up your implied assertion using Gurbani. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsingh00 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Balbir Singh wrote: "Please do this favor to the whole mankind. Provide one reference from the reverend Gurus where they say that 'as one reads bani, naam will automatically be absorbed inside of you'. I will also be grateful." ਆਪਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਧਾਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ॥ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬੋਲੇ ਗੁਣ ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥੪॥੫॥ obviously a sikh is to do jaap of gurmantar, Baba Hari Singh is not trying to say that gurmantar jaap isn't important; it is a must. However, gurbani is much more than just updesh to jap naam, gurbani is naam roop in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Balbir Singh Jeeo, The Gurus introduced the institution of Gurbani Kirtan to the Panth. The tradition remains alive till today, we have ithihaasik records of the Rababis appointed to do this special seva in Guru Dargah. Singing and listening to Gurbani kirtan IS a form of simran - naam jap and kirtan are mentioned side by side numerous times in Gurbani. I know you will probably translate kirtan as some mystical unseen/unheard experience - but the fact of the matter remains - that if experienced correctly (with dhyaan and prem) it remains an important door to enabling Guru prasad. Question - is the singing of gurbani not repetition of Gurbani - and is not a fruitful repetition... Why do I get the feeling your next answer wil be: Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all and Shaheediyan Jee! The reverend Gurus singing of kirtan was a natural process of them being imbued in naam, when one tastes the mango, he too will naturally express his kirtan just as the Gurus did. Balbir Singh Tell me I'm right... am I close.... be honest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 gsingh00 I don't think Balbir Singh is advocating or promoting the jaap of Gurmantar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all! Quote from Laalsingh Jee "Some people remained thirsty even after having company of Gurus, Jesus, Mohamad, Krishna. What are you trying to imply here?" Some come near the source of water. Still, they remain thirsty. Why? Please do not trust Baabaas who cannot quench your thirst. Quote "Only chosen ones have this thirst." All are thirsty. Most of them are knocking at the wrong doors for water. Quote "Quenching will happen only when Waheguru wishes." In my experience, quenching happens in the company of true Saints. God's wish is recognized. Quote "You are promoting yourself or some other baba/swami? Please specify." Do you promote yourself when you write on this forum? For sure I am not promoting your Baabaa. ***** Quote from Singh2 Jee "Balbir does not believe in word waheguru." You are again off the track and have understood your mind. ***** Quote from Ekta Jee "Please provide proof. It is easy to criticize. Back up your implied assertion using Gurbani." Not even one Vaak is mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee that explains that by reading it Naam slides in 'apne aap'. Please provide proof of that what your Baabaa is saying using Gurbaanee. ***** Quote from gsingh00 Jee "obviously a sikh is to do jaap of gurmantar, Baba Hari Singh is not trying to say that gurmantar jaap isn't important;" But this Baabaa Jee is saying 'jeRe log kehnde ne ji naam japnaa chahidaa baanee te naam japne da updes dendee hai galt baat hai onaa lokaaN dee.' Why? Is Gurmantar not Naam? Thanks for referring the wonderful Vaaks from Gurdev. Do these Vaaks suggest to read their written work and Naam slides in by itself? I feel you are smart enough. Please try to find out what the reverend Gurus say about reading. ***** Shaheediyan Jee, when one wants to eat mangoes he does not start reading a book about it. Balbir Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laalsingh Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 For sure I am not promoting your Baabaa. My baba is Baba Nanak. I am sure you are not promoting Him. So, Who is you baba/swami? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 "Shaheediyan Jee, when one wants to eat mangoes he does not start reading a book about it." Aaah, so Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is just a book. You carry on munching on your mangoes, those who want to taste amrit, read gurbani, they memorise Gurbani, they do vichaar on Gurbani, they live and experience Gurbani - they SING gurbani. Its because of your reading and personal interpretation of Gurbani, that you here, doing your parchaar (according to your matt). Without Gurbani, you wouldn't even have heard of naam, let alone be using your favourite amb metaphor. ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਪੜੀਐ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗੁਣੀਐ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਕਥਾ ਨਿਤ ਸੁਣੀਐ ॥ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਏ ਜਗੁ ਭਉਜਲੁ ਦੁਤਰੁ ਤਰੀਐ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥ Naam is the fruit of listening to Sat-Guru - be it through recitation, kathaa or singing - the bhaav/prem is developed through learning with nimrata, bharosa and prem, not with ahankaar. You try and seperate things which are all connected i.e. paat, simran, kirtan, kathaa or Gurbani arth etc... Through correct, humble and focused repitition - one absorbs Gurus teachings, then one contemplates, then one understands them then one experiences them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all and laalsingh Jee! Quote "My baba is Baba Nanak." It is great to hear it. Is this the reason you call your preachers Baba? Quote "I am sure you are not promoting Him." Baba Nanak may not be happy. Don't look for others. ***** Quote from Shaheediyan Jee "You carry on munching on your mangoes, those who want to taste amrit, read gurbani, they memorise Gurbani, they do vichaar on Gurbani, they live and experience Gurbani - they SING gurbani." Better stop first preaching that reading Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee is Naam Simran, like your Baabaas. Without Naam the world is a business, just as your Baabaas are doing it. Please listen. Guru Naanak Dev Jee is singing. ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਜਗੁ ਧੰਧਾ ॥ हरि के नाम बिना जगु धंधा ॥ Hari ke naam binaa jagu dhandhaa. sggs ang 358 ***** Thanks for the wonderful reference from Gurdev. ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਪੜੀਐ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗੁਣੀਐ ॥ हरि गुण पड़ीऐ हरि गुण गुणीऐ ॥ Hari guN paRIai Hari guN guRIai. sggs ang 95 May I ask why have you and your Baabaas replaced the reverend Guru's word 'Hari guN' with the fourteen hundred and thirty pages of Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee? Please answer this without deviating. Balbir Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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