57 Pakistani Hindus Convert To Islam 'under Pressure'

[kdsingh80]

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_57-pakistani-hindus-convert-to-islam-under-pressure_1388695

ISLAMABAD: Over 50 Pakistani Hindus have converted to Islam in the Sialkot district of Punjab within a week (between May 14 and May 19) under pressure from their Muslim employers in a bid to retain their jobs and survive in the Muslim-dominated society.

Times Square bomb plot suspect got training in Pakistan

As many as 35 Hindus converted to Islam on May 14, another 14 on May 17 and eight on May 19, 2010.

All the 57 Hindus who have converted belong to the Pasroor town of Sialkot.

According to some Pakistani electronic media reports, Mangut Ram, a close relative of some of the new converts, who lives in Sialkot, said that these Hindus had to embrace Islam because they were under pressure from their Muslim employers.

He said four Hindu brothers along with their families lived in the village of Nikki Pindi. Mangut Ram said that Hans Raj, Kans Raj, Meena/Kartar and Sardari Lal along with his nephews and sons worked at an eatery in Karachi.

According to Mangut Ram, his co workers often used to speak against Hindus in Karachi where his family worked. “The owner of the shop where I worked said that after a few months of his employing me the sales dropped drastically because people avoided purchasing and eating edibles prepared by Hindus. Many people opposed the large presence of Hindu employees at his shop and my boss felt pressured to change the situation,” he added.

Ram said Sardari Lal and his brother Meena/Kartar had worked at the sweets shops for several years and made a decent living that allowed them to support their families.

He said other Muslims employees of the nearby shops discriminated against them and persecuted them. The shop owner was forced to think about their future at his establishment. “That was when the two brothers and their families decided to embrace Islam in order to keep their jobs and be secure,” he added.

Ram confirmed that 13 family members of Sardari Lal, 12 members of Meena/ Kartar, their nephew Kans Raj’s son Boota Ram along with three adults and several children of these families embraced Islam on May 14, 2010.

He said that Sardari Lal’s older brothers Hans Raj and Kans Raj remained Hindus. Hans Raj too has said that he might consider converting to save his job. He said that life was ‘just easier if one was Muslim’ and he wouldn’t be discriminated against.

Ram said that 14 Hindus of the Tapiala village had embraced Islam on May 17 because they were extremely poor and could not get jobs because no one would employ the large Hindu family.

He said that another relative of his, Parkash, who lived in the village of Seowal, along with his eight family members had embraced Islam in order to save their lands.

“After embracing Islam, Parkash Ram told me that Muslim neighbours had been mistreating him and had forced him to convert,” Mangut Ram said.

[SAadmin]

Islamic Fascism is threat to this world..!!

[laalsingh]

As per a news in Hamdard Weekly from Toronto, two Sikh women had been converted. One Gurnam Kaur became Fatima Shahazadi. As per president of Sikh Resource and Interfaith study centre Gurmit Singh, Gurnam Kaur became Muslim on 25 May 2010. She has family problems and was pressured to convert. Similarly another Sikh woman who was mentally disturbed, was converted to Islam in Nanakana Sahib.

[laalsingh]

Oops, missed the link.

http://hamdardweekly.com/_case/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=60&page=view&catid=137&tmpl=component&key=10&hit=1&uid=0

[dalsingh101]

Sad to hear one of them left her 3 children and husband. And our guys are giving mosques away across the border........

[jaikaara]

it is us and our failure that has lead to such crisis, if we r not taking care of our people we r going to see more of this !

can we not have a group here based in india willing to go ahead and come together and become maybe a off shhoot of the UNITED SIKHS, get these victims across the border and help them resettle.

if the hindus want to join in ...fine ..but i feel we as sikhs should do our karam.

[kdsingh80]

it is us and our failure that has lead to such crisis, if we r not taking care of our people we r going to see more of this !

How much sikhs helped 1984 riots victim is an open truth.Despite one of the successful financial community of Delhi ,hardly anything was done for the victims so forget about helping victims which are living in pakistan

[jaikaara]

thats the fools sitting outside india , making talibani looking websites and earning money out of t shirts and gift items , as if they are at the recieving end ...the real victim is rotting in the slums of delhi

[Parchand]

the maseets that sikhs built were out of sewa and nothing was expected in return. even in the west you'd be suprised how many masjids are built by sikh builders at cut price rates because they're for a faith building.

regarding islamic conversion, these stories are bad. but when you think about it ALL majority communities impose their will on minorities and coerce them to convert within 3 generations. there is pressure in india for sikhs to accept they are hindu, there is pressure in west to conform and the number of apnay conforming in looks and calling themselves Simon is on the rise.

in the end people have to accept a degree of personal responsibility too..

in the 1950s & 60s many in my grandfather's generation chopped off their hair to get well-paid jobs in manufacturing but after serving in ww2 & retiring from indian army on pension my grandfather came to the west and accepted a low-paid very hard manual job in an ironworks and lived on just bread and achaar. within a few years he was wealthy compared to those who conformed and sikhs got their rights so others followed his example. faith and survival instincts are underrated.

[Kaljug]

It's happening in the UK also with prosoners either beng threatened to convert or converting simply for the additional perks:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article7145784.ece

Thing is, these people may just be doing it to survive, but their children and their grandchildren will be the next generation's Muslim suicide bombers, terrorists, and fanatics.

K.

[shaheediyan]

I have personally met wives of some of the 1984 shaheeds, they have nothing positive to say about the Khalistani groups that emerged afterwards, as all of them left these widows and their fatherless children to fend for themselves, one such Bibi sells pronthe and chaa near Baba Atal in Amritsar.

Some very good points made, people here are getting rich on records/albums/merchandise or think they are 'spreading the word' when what really needs to be addressed is the issue of supporting the 1984 (and post) victims. This needs to be done via financial help i.e. educating the kids, providing shelter etc as well as social i.e. Singhs in the west marrying bibiyan of Shaheed Singhs.

Parchand also makes a valid point, people are responsible for themselves, if they choose to live in Pakistan and convert to make their lives easier, thats their perogative. People who really value their faith will seek other options.

Majority of Sikhs have been fine living n Pakistan, yes, some idiots may cause problems but large part of populace is fine, in fact, they like Singhs, they seem them a history of their country. All the people I know that have done a long tour (yatra) in Pakistan (inc my family) have said that the locals were absolutley hospitable (and not for financial reward or tourism either, I am talking about poor locals), many of whom had fond memories of their Sikh neighbours before the partition. Educated youth also admire Sikhs, there are many Pakistani Flickr and Forums I have encountered where Singhs are seen in a positive/admirable light.

Its a shame that many in the west base their views on Pakistanis (the ones that live there) on a small % of western brainwashed jobless uneducated numskull youth (on the large part, with a few educated examples).

Think about how long the tiny non Muslim population has been living in Pakistan, if all Paksitani were evil, do you not think that the minorities would have disappeared half a century ago... same goes for Malaysia/Indonesia/Egypt/Iran/Turkey etc (apart from recent fanatical activity).

Its sad when conversions take place, but we should not judge a whole population based on a few isolated cases. This case was very much one of personal choice, albeit grounded in hardships, its no different to what fanatical Christian missioneries are doing all over the world today, albeit in a more decietful way.

Siksh who live in Pakistan really treat it as their home believe it or not, it's their country (good or bad) and they would rather stay there and fight for rights than move or convert (unless their lives are in immediate danger), and even then, they choose to seek protection in each other than leave the country (as happened recently with the NW population moving to Nanakana Sahib).

We should also take not of how successful the Sikhs were in Afghanistan before the Taliban (external Saudi mob) took over.

[Kaljug]

Parchand also makes a valid point, people are responsible for themselves, if they choose to live in Pakistan and convert to make their lives easier, thats their perogative. People who really value their faith will seek other options.

So you are fine with people being compelled to convert to Islam because they should just leave the country if they don't want to be the dhimmis of their Muslim masters?

Think about how long the tiny non Muslim population has been living in Pakistan, if all Paksitani were evil, do you not think that the minorities would have disappeared half a century ago... same goes for Malaysia/Indonesia/Egypt/Iran/Turkey etc (apart from recent fanatical activity).

The fact that there are a few Hindus or Sikhs surviving in Pakistan is hardly proof that Islam and Pakistani society does not discriminate againt non-Muslims. Compare the population of non-Muslims in any of the countries you mention before and after Islam and you will clearly see that they are diminishing. This to me says much more about Islam than the fact there's a single Singh living in some ghetto in Pakistan that everybody else has forgotten about.

Its sad when conversions take place, but we should not judge a whole population based on a few isolated cases. This case was very much one of personal choice, albeit grounded in hardships, its no different to what fanatical Christian missioneries are doing all over the world today, albeit in a more decietful way.

Isolated cases? Are you kidding?

How is having to pick Islam over poverty and starvation for you and your children a "personal choice"? And where are the fanatical Christians (or any non-Muslims for that matter) who are forcing people to convert or lose their jobs?

K.

[shaheediyan]

"So you are fine with people being compelled to convert to Islam because they should just leave the country if they don't want to be the dhimmis of their Muslim masters?"

No, I am not fine with Muslims who compell to convert, far from it actually, but the fact of the matter is that its a Muslim country, and we can't do jack about it. I totally understand about the crap scenario these poor people were in, but there is always a choice, if there was a choice for our ancestors who rather accepted their babies to be cut limb by limb, then there is a choice for these poor people to.

Read what I said about Christians again, I didn't say they use force, but their tactics are not dissimilar. They prey on the poor who have no food/medical aid, and offer help so long as they attend Church. No so different hey. Difference is the Muslims are up front about it.

[jaikaara]

When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said "Let us pray." We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land - Desmond Tutu

[Kaljug]

When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said "Let us pray." We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land - Desmond Tutu

I suppose the lesson is always to pray with one eye open and a hand on your shastar when there are missionaries about!

I am quite pleased that there are now many educated Africans who are rediscovering their traditional religions and starting to practice them instead of the alien middle Eastern cults that their ance4stors were forced to adopt. I hope the trend continues until Africa rediscovers its soul and casts off this remnant of colonialism forever.

K.

[kdsingh80]

Think about how long the tiny non Muslim population has been living in Pakistan, if all Paksitani were evil, do you not think that the minorities would have disappeared half a century ago... same goes for Malaysia/Indonesia/Egypt/Iran/Turkey etc (apart from recent fanatical activity).

Please check the percentage of population of Hindus in Bangladesh in 1951 and what it is now then say that muslim population is not hostile towards non muslims.

Though compared to other muslim countries bangladesh is fairly secular

[dalsingh101]

Shaheediyan.......Shaheediyan.......Shaheediyan.......

That is rampant, unabashed apologism you're engaging in there mate.

This is how I see it:

Shaheediyan believes that staunch, anti-kafir Muslims are a generally insignificant divergent minority in that quom, and those on the other side believe that these people are not at all divergent but represent a historically consistent and honest face of what it means to be a certain prominent type of orthodox sullah.

The problem is that the latter type described above can easily vilify every last sullah, even those not into these things. Whilst the former seems to pretty much ignore potential early warnings signs of a dangerous threat for some utopian ideals?

We have to meet in the middle guys.

Edited June 8, 2010 by dalsingh101

[jaikaara]

I suppose the lesson is always to pray with one eye open and a hand on your shastar when there are missionaries about!

EXACTLY ! this makes a valid point, i will tell u here a personal experience. u might have heard about the graham staines case in orrissa, i was really upset about it and i use to feel that the man behind it, dara singh should be hanged ! after a few years i came across a office collegue who originally belonged to the keonjhar district and this guy was a tribal. i discussed this with him, he to my surprised opposed me and asked me if i knew the facts. i told him that i had read every bit of news available, he asked me if i trusted those reports, i dint know if i should agree.

according to him , graham staines was an austrailian missionary who was spreading the bible amongst the tribals, a day or 2 prior to the incident, he had taken a bunch of neo converts and had asked them to demolish a stone image of a tribal diety worshipped locally. this demolition was the main reason that angered the locals, and then what followed was mob frenzy leading to burning alive of graham staines and his 4 innocent children (i personally was more affected due to the children to becoming victims )

[shaheediyan]

If you read my posts you will see that I am somewhere in the middle, I always have been.

The reason you hear me banging on so much is because most people here are happy to totally stereotype 1 billion people, I have known, know and always will know that that is total and utter ********.

The minority is far from insignificant, it is a huge threat and danger, more so to the lives of the decent majority, than to any of us, as its the good people that get stereotyped, disciminated against and killed in countless encounters (collat damage).

I totally oppose and detest fanatics, including those monkeys who hang around High Streets pushing their views forcefully on others (Christian or Muslim).

We don't need to help the fanatics to grow by sending fresh bloof their way by adding to the 'hate' for the entire population. If a good Muslim were to read the large part of Muslim posts on this forum, how much love do you think he would have or Sikhs? All we do is play into the small (but clever/devious) fanatical minorities hands, by focusing our hate on the innocents, and nicely pushing them into the laps of those that seem like they care.

The Niti to use would be to engage intelligently/respectfully i.e. not demonise their faith, prophet, population etc, but at the same time to

make it clear that fanaticism will not be tolerated, and get them to take this stance too. in fact there are now emerging some strong vocal groups who are unapologetically speaking out against terrorism/fanaticism. We should encourage and support these groups.

[shaheediyan]

And before anyone comes out with the PC bakwas, consider this, the notion of PC should be used in context. If we look at my posts on this forum, considering the environment - and the common/average opinion, it is in fact me, that is the least 'PC'.

[amardeep]

As a researcher said: The best missioaries of radical Islam are the right wing political parties because they promote Islam to be exactly what the radicals want it to be, hereby giving the moderate and spiritual voices of Islam an insignificant role when it comes to define what Islam is about.

[dalsingh101]

The minority is far from insignificant, it is a huge threat and danger, more so to the lives of the decent majority, than to any of us, as its the good people that get stereotyped, disciminated against and killed in countless encounters (collat damage).

These 'good people' aren't really blameless either though are they. How long have they sat on their ar5es quietly and let the animals amongst them define their system. They have behaved pretty cowardly in this respect.

I totally oppose and detest fanatics, including those monkeys who hang around High Streets pushing their views forcefully on others (Christian or Muslim).

Are you kidding me. This thing has gone so far, those jack up wearing stall monkeys are minor irritants now in contrast to some of their more 'active' brothers.

We don't need to help the fanatics to grow by sending fresh bloof their way by adding to the 'hate' for the entire population. If a good Muslim were to read the large part of Muslim posts on this forum, how much love do you think he would have or Sikhs? All we do is play into the small (but clever/devious) fanatical minorities hands, by focusing our hate on the innocents, and nicely pushing them into the laps of those that seem like they care.

Although I get your point about feeding the fundos, this is the bit where I think you are demonstrating extreme naivety. I'm telling you straight up, a lot more of those secularised looking, more surface friendly sullay surreptitiously sympathise with their kuttarh pras than an overly trusting innocent apna bundha might imagine. That is where people like yourself become dangerous to your own because you seem to be easily swayed by sweet, friendly behaviour. Look how many apneean have been conned by sullay in this same way.

The Niti to use would be to engage intelligently/respectfully i.e. not demonise their faith, prophet, population etc, but at the same time to make it clear that fanaticism will not be tolerated, and get them to take this stance too.

Sorry but from what I know of much of their faith's history and founder, the fundos seem to be following precedent with some of their more negative actions. They seem to have full sanction of their actions from their history and religious texts. Also, you can PC it as much as you want, I just find it hard to believe Mohammad was a dharmic man with some of his more kaamic behaviour, especially later in his life. If some elderly Sikh sant was to have a relationship with a young 'mutiar' you'd be up in arms, but you excuse it here - the only explanation is PC gone pagal syndrome.

in fact there are now emerging some strong vocal groups who are unapologetically speaking out against terrorism/fanaticism. We should encourage and support these groups.

So we should be grateful that they are doing what they should've been doing decades ago? When I was growing up I had mates who would go to mosque run by a guy who would jihad in Lebanon and teach them that this was a sulla's duty. This wasn't an isolated situation. Nor was it a big secret. I am glad some sullay are finally opening their mouths but it does seem like too little too late to me.

[dalsingh101]

I should clarify I am talking about the wahabbi interpretation of Islam above, and no, I don't think it is a minority interpretation, although those implementing it full force may be a minority of sorts, those who generally believe in and support its diktats to various degrees aren't.

Edited June 8, 2010 by dalsingh101

[Kaljug]

As a researcher said: The best missioaries of radical Islam are the right wing political parties because they promote Islam to be exactly what the radicals want it to be, hereby giving the moderate and spiritual voices of Islam an insignificant role when it comes to define what Islam is about.

The Muslim Mughals didn't need to wait for the BNP or Gert Wilders Dutch Freedom Party to start murdering our ancestors in the name of their Arabian prophet. Islam doesn't need anyone else's help to produce followers who murder, rape and pillage in its name; it has the Quran and the sayings of Mohammed to do that.

As some Spanish philosopher dude once said: those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

K.

[jaikaara]

The Muslim Mughals didn't need to wait for the BNP or Gert Wilders Dutch Freedom Party to start murdering our ancestors in the name of their Arabian prophet. Islam doesn't need anyone else's help to produce followers who murder, rape and pillage in its name; it has the Quran and the sayings of Mohammed to do that.

As some Spanish philosopher dude once said: those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

K.

Very well said ! absolutely making sense ! in my opinion, it is us the religions of hindustan who use their brains to find reasons and philosophies, intellectuals dont make good warriors !