Halal Meat Not Being Labelled As Halal

[Kaljug]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

I would encourage Sikhs to send letters of complaint to all of the companies listed in the article below advising them that they are discriminating against Sikhs who are forbidden to eat halal meat and are breaking EU law. By the way, I would encourage you to do this even if you do not eat meat from any of these places (I don't either), simply because it is discriminatory towards non-muslims and offensive to those who are forbidden to eat particular kinds of meat.

K.

http://www.bva.co.uk/2168.aspx

Vets ask companies to rethink menus that are all halal

22 September 2010

Following the Mail on Sunday investigation into the widespread use of meat and meat products from animals not stunned before slaughter, the British Veterinary Association (BVA) is writing to the companies involved to express its concern that the use of this meat in the wider food chain will lead to an increase in the number of animals slaughtered without stunning and an increase in unnecessary suffering.

The BVA has also renewed its call for clearer food labelling so that consumers are aware when they buy meat or meat products whether or not the animals were slaughtered as humanely as possible.

The Mail on Sunday found that meat slaughtered under certain religious rules without pre-stunning (including kosher and some halal meat), is entering the mainstream food chain without being labelled as such. The investigation found that the meat is being used in schools, hospitals, pub chains and certain sporting venues.

The investigation follows news reports that GateGourmet, one of the largest airline caterers, is considering making the majority of its meals halal.

The BVA is concerned that consumers are confused by existing food labels and supports moves by the European Parliament to introduce mandatory labelling of meat from non-stunned animals, including use of the meat in other products. The BVA also supports the concept of one clear EU-wide label that would indicate higher welfare throughout the food chain.

Commenting, Professor Bill Reilly, President of the British Veterinary Association, said:

"Whilst we understand the need to respect religious freedoms the BVA believes that all animals should be stunned before slaughter to ensure the highest possible welfare for the animals.

“The exemption for religious slaughter should therefore be kept to a minimum. Meat from animals slaughtered according to these religious rules should not be used in the mainstream market, particularly if it is not labelled as such.

“Earlier this year the European Parliament voted in favour of the compulsory labelling of meat from non-stunned animals and the British Veterinary Association strongly welcomed this move.

“We believe that consumers do want to make choices based on higher animal welfare and not cause unnecessary suffering. They should have the right information to make those pro-welfare choices.”

Edited October 10, 2010 by Kaljug

[jaikaara]

wish this was possible in india , here its a pain to know what meat it is..i use a other way-around-question method like ..i go to a restaurant and directly ask " eh halaal hai na ??" the guy will shake his head in confirmation..job done ..i politely say thanks but i dont eat halaal.

[Mr Sardar]

All about veggi do it for bhagti- jhatka fruit and veg.

[chatanga1]

best to stick to pork, that way you know it wont be halal.

[jaikaara]

veera in india pork is not easily available in all regions, a place near me use to sell prok closed down..the non muslims here dont eat prok and its unhygenic in india, chances are u might get an infection

[Kaljug]

All about veggi do it for bhagti- jhatka fruit and veg.

This isn't the point, Singha. The point is being able for all Sikhs, including ones who are not vegetarian and even those horrible, evil people who eat meat from shops and restaurants, to live in an environment where one particular religion's adherents do not have the right to dictate what other pople can and cannot eat.

If you accept this intrusion of Islamic sharia into our society because it does not affect you, pretty soon they will want to force you to limit your choices in some other way that does affect you.

One thing that I really dislike about some Sikhs is that they are more than willing to see other Sikhs lose some of their freedoms - particularly where those freedoms are looked down upon in their own jatha - and then they turn around and whine that the rest of the Sikh Panth does not stand with them when their own freedoms are taken away by others.

K.

[Kaljug]

best to stick to pork, that way you know it wont be halal.

Pork is too fatty. Anyway, why should we allow other religions to dictate what we can and cannot eat?

K.

[shaheediyan]

Interesting point, and something I have been telling people for years.

I fail to see how Singhs can eat meat in the UK, when they have absolutely no evidence the meat has been jatkad. More so, as the article points out, many 'meat production' factories operate halaal production as standard, saves them time and money - gorai don't give 2 hoots - it is only a near non-existant % of the Sikh population that is affected.

So:

1 - Meat not prepared via jatka;

2 - Probabilty of meat being halaal (even if not labeled as such)

Just interested to know how Singhs in the UK justify eating meat in their minds...

When at Uni, the 1st Punjabi chippy opened up. The 'Shere Punjab' member Sikh used to tell Muslims the meat was halaal and Sikhs that it was jatkad. This is the same story with 'Sikh' butchers/meat sellers all over the UK in my experience.

Even in India, sounds like the above is becoming a problem, although Punjab is probably not affected as yet.

[dalsingh101]

If we are talking of jhatka as the ritual where a Singh does paat and decapitates the animal with one deft blow, then no publically distributed meat is jhatka. If we are talking an animal quickly killed without Muslim rites, then you might (I repeat might) be in luck at Dewhursts.

Maybe we should stick to wild boar? Plus how do you jhatka a pig? My grandma told me you have to stab them directly in the heart to kill them and this was difficult to do.

Edited October 12, 2010 by dalsingh101

[shaheediyan]

Irrelevant of whether one believes Singhs can only eat ritualised or non-ritualised chatka, the problem remains - that when you Singhs buy their meat - they have no idea where it has come from i.e. how it was killed, how the animal was treated/raised, the crap the animal was injected with to make it abnormally large etc etc.

It would be good if there was a verified source of meat - in terms of it being organic and killed in a humane/quick way (which having studied the subject a few years ago - I found no evidence of this). An abattoir is simply a business - where animals are products and no compassion is shown in their killing. This highly contrasts the respect that native warrior cultures and puratan Singhs gave to their 'game' and or sacrifical animal.

Truth is, that probably 99.99% of Sikhs who eat meat, don't give a rats a*** where it comes from, they don't care whether it's halal or not, they simply choose to ignore any notion of investigation. I myself know a Gurdwara pardhaans 'Sikh' son who buys his chops from an halal butchers.

For the Veggies, do you have any idea where your milk comes from? I don't see any campaign pressuring Gurdwarai to purchase only organic milk (as opposed to milk from mutated, ill treated, offal fed - factory cows). Nor do I see any campaign for organic veg to be solely used in Gurdwarai.

It all comes down to money - whether meat, milk, veg or whatever - Punjabis will always go for the cheaper option i.e. halal, in reality, '£000s savings' are the true Guru, as opposed to a conscience.

1 or 2 Sikhs opposing halal domination ain't gonna make jack difference. What is needed is promotion of principles, ideals, compassion and health. The difference will then be made starting at an individual level - when numbers gather - then 'a plan' will be possible. The plan should not be just for Sikhs - but for all - i.e. consumption of animals who have had a natural diet, healthy lifestyle (mentally as well as physically - i.e. not walking back and forth in a small confined space) and compassionate death.

Even Muslims and Jews go down the ignorant route - they may kill there animals using 'modern' halal and kosher methods - i.e. tape playing prayers, screaming animals hanging upside down having their throat chopped without any skill/attention by some khafir Brit etc etc. Their won religios rules about treatment and death of animals, sucham, butcher reciting prayers etc all go out the window.

Everyone today is a fake.

[chatanga1]

My grandma told me you have to stab them directly in the heart to kill them and this was difficult to do.

How did you get into a convo with your grandma about killing pigs?

It would be good if there was a verified source of meat

the thing is that we cant really verify much, if any food that we eat in the uk, such as atta or sabzi. We dont know if the farmers son who helped grow them is taking drugs or tobacco etc. Or the sprays that kill thousands of God's innocent creatures just so we can eat some roti. Or if the people at the Mandi smoke or whatever.

The only way you will ever verify your own food is if you go thru the whole process of plant, nurturing and harvesting. End of.

[shaheediyan]

well one can make an effort at least i.e. organic flour, organic veg, organic milk - locally sourced if possible. That's quite easy to do actually. Re the process and responsibility that comes with sustainable/eco food - that speaks for itself i.e. cows giving organic milk see and eat fresh grass etc. Lol, in any case - I personally always promote Singhs to grow their own food to whatever level they can - hence our gardening threads so it shouldn't be for a lack of trying - I know that at least 2 Singhs on this forum have since/recently aqcuired some nice allotments... watch this space!

In any case - there is no maryada for fruit/veg, so that arguement/trajectory is N/A. at the most basic level Guru has given some strict instructions re maas, and people don't give a hoot. The veg arguement etc pours into a wider debate about sustainability/responsibility (as does meat) - mata tarth mahath - as Nirmala Baba Balbir Singh always quotes when giving 'green' lectures.

I used to know a Shia girl called Shaheeda @ school whose Dad used to keep chickens and occasional goats. he used to do the 'buesiness' himself. He was an extremely nice and devout man. We used to laugh at him back then, but I now see how responsible/faithful this man was. He ran a successful business, so it wasn't for a lack of money or civilised behaviour.

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

I think Shaheediyan raises good sensible points. The whole way in which food is cultivated is unwholesome.

Chickens being injected with hormones, being artificially fattened so they cannot stand.

Many western cows living a life of pain and suffering.

And GM crops being used to commercially control all food production - the evil Monsanto corporation -

And not to mention monoculture crops - the eradication of the natural diversity in nature -

PLastic in the food chain.

Chemicals from perfumes and soaps disinfectants in the water supply, fluoride in water.....

The list goes on

It kind of makes the debate about Jhatka and Halal seem childish, like two brothers arguing over whose toy car is the best whilst their house burns down.

[Kaljug]

I fail to see how Singhs can eat meat in the UK, when they have absolutely no evidence the meat has been jatkad.

I know plenty of Sikhs who will eat meat as long as it is not kuttha/halaal as this is the most commonly folowed rehat around meat (e.g., Akal Takht Maryada).

Personally I think it's much better if you hunt your meat yourself, or at least acquire and kill it, but I recognise that not everyone thinks that way.

You raise some good points about having daya toward animals, but with due respect, this should be a given for any Sikh and is kind of OT.

Even if you believe that writing letters, or perfoming any sort of action, to combat the spread of kuttha meat into the food chain is pointless, I'd encourage you to do it anyway. Who knows, you might be surprised by the power of your pen. :-)

K.

[dalsingh101]

Back in the 70s/80s a lot of Gurdwaras had land or gardens attached to them. By and large these were quickly utilised as extensions to existing structures or used in larger rebuilds, many now have no such plots. It is a shame no one pushed for the land to used as a plot to grow food for the langar. This could've served multiple purposes asides from the obvious self sufficiency by keeping the old foggies who sit around gossiping in the Gurdwaras constructively busy.

I remember a conversation I had with some thug gora about 20 years ago. He was from some very working class, rough area. He told me how his father always had offs with his Sikh neighbour (I used to hear the phrase "the ones with the turbans, they're the worst" quite a bit back then).

Anyway, he one told me how the Singh would keep chickens in the back yard and once a beheaded one ran amok over the wall into his garden spurting blood everywhere. It led to another punch up between his father and Singh. Just thought I'd share that story before it dies...lol. So some Singhs (or at least a Singh) did do what Shaheediyan is suggesting. Another thing is that plenty of Sikhs do actually grow their own veg and herbs in their gardens. I know my mother and aunty do quite a bit. Even I was doing it when at home. I'd do it now too if I wasn't in an apartment. So it isn't fair to make out like some Sikhs aren't on this type of stuff already Shaheediyan. But yes, we could push for it to become standard practice in the quom. But seeing as apnay are so busy trying to live the modern "white goods and appliances" lifestyle to excess, I think it will be pretty hard to reverse the stupid thinking embedded in the quom right now.

Also I think most of us (with a brain that is) would LOVE to eat only healthy, organic food. But some people seem to curiously overlook the fact that quite a few apnay do live with quite limited means. Despite the dakawaah and regular media output of how good and well Sikhs are doing in the UK.

How did you get into a convo with your grandma about killing pigs?

She is passed on now (God bless her). It was when I went to visit her back home and there were some people who were camped on a plot of land outside grandpas place. They kept pigs and I commented on how the pigs were roaming around free and she told me how she spoke to them and witnessed them slaughtering a pig by stabbing it in the 'kaalja'. How it must be done right and it is difficult to do without expertise. You can't really behead a pig like a goat I imagine.

Plus I'm wondering if wild boar slaughtered in shikaar (presumably often through multiple blows) qualify as jhatka. Singhs certainly ate this type of meat going by European accounts?

I know plenty of Sikhs who will eat meat as long as it is not kuttha/halaal as this is the most commonly folowed rehat around meat (e.g., Akal Takht Maryada).

This is the one followed in my family. Some of the youngers are really strict about it too. No Dixie Fried Chicken.

But anyone seen that next thing where certain 'jouts' will score their halal Dixie friend chicken with the needle thing they tuck their kesh in their patkas with and do a fateh or something to 'dehalal' it. lol. That is lame arse. I think it is very much a minority practice.

Edited October 12, 2010 by dalsingh101

[GillAUS]

Going by what I saw on a recently screened BBC doco regarding the slaughter of goats in the UK, the animal is stunned first with a bolt gun, hung up and then has its jugular cut/slit. I don't really think this would constitute a "clean" kill as the stunning process doesn't really kill the animal.

As such, for rehit purposes I don't think it would be jhatka, but could possibly be classified as non-halal/kuttha I suppose.

In my opinion, the best meat to eat in the West if one chooses to do so, would be that classified as organic. Such meat generally has to be rigorously monitored in order to retain that classification. However, the way in which it is slaughtered would probably be the same. The only difference is that the animal doesn't have to be subjected to the conditions that those on factory farms endure.

[shaheediyan]

K, thats my point, we don't know if its halaal or not, but we do not its becoming more and more common for halal to be sold without the label (in fact this has been the case for many years, as the 2 million strong Muslim populace are a strong factor in meat purchasing in the UK).

DS

Babe ke Gurdwarai (Leamington) is an excellent example of a UK Gurdwara who has bought big pieces of land and grow their own food, visit it if you haven't done so already.

Dikavah - All Punjabis can muster £20K-£30K for their daughters marriage (many even taking loans/remortgages to do so) yet faint at the thought of spending 50p extra for organic.

Shikaar - shikaar was almost mostly done by teer or bandookh. Tulwar was only ever used as a close quarter measure when a pasu attacked by surprise (out of fear) when Singhs got to close to it's hiding place etc. If still alive - it was stabbed in the heart (as you say) or chatkaad.

[dalsingh101]

Another big question is why haven't any or many Sikh 'farmers' gone into agriculture in the UK? I would presume they have the expertise and experience?

I know Sikhs do agriculture in Australia, the US and even in Italy. What happened to the 'proud' Sikh farmers in the UK? They could've specialised in this stuff?

[chatanga1]

they came mainly to fill the shortfall in manual labour dalsingh ji. whereas the sikhs who went to the US, went to set up their own businesses etc. manysikh farmers in the US in Yuba City i think.

[dalsingh101]

I am genuinely surprised that none went in the farming direction, especially given the pride exhibited in these things from that quarter?

Maybe it's because in the UK farming isn't something that has much prestige or status? Or maybe they just felt odd and vulnerable stuck out in the middle of rural England?

I tell you what, a good percentage did the manual labour and then quickly diversified into Off Licenses at the first chance.

Edited October 12, 2010 by dalsingh101

[chatanga1]

I am genuinely surprised that none went in the farming direction, especially given the pride exhibited in these things from that quarter?

when our forefathers left panjab to come here, there was a very big difference in farming. i would be so bold as to say that when my grandfather came here in 1968, no-one in panjab probably had a tractor, whereas here they were milking by machine. the difference in methods would have been too great for them to make anymoney out of it.

or it could have something to do with the shitty weather.

[dalsingh101]

or it could have something to do with the shitty weather.

I think you may be on to something there. So they generally preferred working indoors.

[shaheediyan]

The main issue as far I have seen, was land availbality and price. In the US and CA where you have many successful Punjabi farmers, land was largely owned by the Govt and was (still is) plentiful and cheap. In the UK land has always been largely owned privately, hence scarce, plus prices have always been comparitvely expensive compared to the rest of the world.

Other than that, farming is not easy. As mentioned, one would have had to get used to the difference in weather, season, crop, land management, water irrigation etc etc. US and CA climate more closely resembled Punjab, hence easier adaption. Other than that - UK had a massive industry with plenty of jobs available - the 9-5 plus overtime life was much more of a luxury than the 7 day a week hard labour farming life.

Main reason again was land availability and price IMHO.

Edited October 13, 2010 by shaheediyan

[dalsingh101]

I don't think price was as big an issue as people think here. Old schoolers were notorious for banding together and buying shops, houses, Off Licenses etc. etc. Plus land in the countryside, when we first landed here in numbers wasn't sky high cost wise. They could have very easily done it if they had wanted to.

I think the rampant racism, that we seem to underplay for some strange reason, may have been a factor in making our lot stick close together a bit in the early days. I'd feel sorry for an apna growing up as the odd one out in a predominantly white area in the old days. I've met some in similar situations and didn't like what I saw.....

I'm surprised that people around the Kent area never got into farming (with a long established community in Gravesend).

But yes, hostility, cold and the convenience of fixed hour working explains it quite well. Status too perhaps? Farmers don't seem to be taken too seriously in the UK?

Whatever the situation, we could do with a few now. Maybe the apnay could hire eastern Europeans like bhaiyas?