amardeep Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 If one belives in Guru Gobind Singh establishing both the Nirmala order and that of the Damdami Taksal, then what is the difference between these two, as both are involved with scholarly activities within sikhi parchaar. What was the difference between the two initially? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 I thought DDT were an offshoot of Nirmalas with heavy leanings towards the Khalsa way of life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted April 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 How can they be when they claim their lineage goes all the way back to Guru Gobind Singh and not through a nirmala scholar? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 I thought DDT were an offshoot of Nirmalas with heavy leanings towards the Khalsa way of life. DDT could not be an offshoot of nirmala. DDT have the mission to teach correct pronunciation of Gurbani and to teach arth and uthanka of gurbani. you imply that nirmalas were not to teach khalsa way of life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted April 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 "and to teach arth and uthanka of gurbani" Isn't this the job of the nirmalas also? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 ddt is actually from Missl Shaheedan, same with Bhai Bidhi Chand nihang dal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted May 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 So DDT does'nt go all the way back to Maharaj as they claim in their various steaks and videos etc? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 it does. here's the history http://www.jathashaheedan.com/history.php 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kam1825 Posted May 2, 2011 Popular Post Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Taksal goes all the way back to guruu gobind singh ji and is originally a Nirmala samparda and is still deeply rooted with the nirmala samparda 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Kam, kinda like bhai dya singh nirmale upsamparda hotimardan right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Exactly like it. Most sampardas may have the odd couple in their lineage who were nihangs, or sevapanthis but the sampardas from bhai daya singh and bhai dharam singh along with taksal are very deep rooted nirmalas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipledgeblue Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Ok, I have read some things on here http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/article_samparda_kartar.html http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/article_samparda_bhindra.html here are some quotes with sources to back them up: ‘Baba Deep Singh Ji Shaheed-----Till now in their Missal the leaders that have succeeded each other one after another and their companion Sikhs -------. The present Jathedar is Baba Kundan Singh.’ ‘Gurmat Rehit Maryada’, Baba Gurbachan Singh Khalsa ‘Bhindrawaley’, Pa.129 ‘To carry the distortion further, the Bhindrawaley Taksal now claims to be the spiritual descendants of ‘Damdami Taksal’ (Spiritual lineage of interpreters of Adi Guru Granth) of Baba Dip Singh, although all the followers of Baba Dip Singh and Baba Gurbaksh Singh died to the last man for the sanctity of the Golden Temple. They left no successor. Sant Sundar Singh founder of Bhindrawaley Taksal was student of Sant Gulab Singh, a Nirmala Saint and actually belonged to the Amritsali Taksal. I had the opportunity to meet Sant Inder Singh, brother of Sant Sundar Singh many times and got first-hand material about the Saints life from Sant Gurbachan Singh. Sant Inder Singh died at the age of 104.’ ‘The Turban And Sword Of Sikhs, Prof.Trilochan Singh, Pa.390 ‘Before Bhindranwalla Jatha, the ‘Taksal’ (school) of Dam Dama had numerous branches teaching to understand Sikh scripture. They did not serve in any way less [than Samparda Bhindra].’ ‘Amrit Jiwan’, by Dr Sher Singh Giani, Appendix Pa.230 ‘This Dam Dami Taksal - this ‘Dam Damas’ name they [Chokh Mehta] say. That they have just attached that name to themselves. Dam Dami Taksal’s master was Baba Deep Singh Shaheed. Baba Gurbachan Singh himself employed his [baba Deep Singh’s] great name because he himself was a Nihang Singh always alert. He had lived in the ‘Dal Panth’ (Budha Dal) amongst Nihangs. He had said: “Lets call it [samparda Bhindra] Dam Dami Taksal there where Maharaj created the Guru Granth”.’ Nihang Baba Mehr Singh, transcript of interview, Summer 2003 ‘This Dam Dami Taksal - this ‘Dam Damas’ name they [Chokh Mehta] say. That they have just attached that name to themselves. Dam Dami Taksal’s master was Baba Deep Singh Shaheed. Baba Gurbachan Singh himself employed his [baba Deep Singh’s] great name because he himself was a Nihang Singh always alert. He had lived in the ‘Dal Panth’ (Budha Dal) amongst Nihangs. He had said: “Lets call it [samparda Bhindra] Dam Dami Taksal there where Maharaj created the Guru Granth”.’ Nihang Baba Mehr Singh, transcript of interview, Summer 2003 Nihang Niddar Singh: “I have been unable to find any references to Dam Dami Taksal in any ancient texts. In British records there are only references to Akali Nihangs, Udasis and Nirmalas only. Do they [Dam Dami Taksal] not exist?” Piara Singh Padam: “Taksal has no special mention. They were ‘Gupt’ (hidden].” ‘Listen to the story of Gurbakhsh Singh Nihang and learn. Attained well did he martyrdom at Amritsar. He was a Nihang and a great warrior. Wore he blue dress and kept the conduct well. Waking in the morning he drank Sukha. Becoming intoxicated he brushed his teeth.’ ‘Pracheen Panth Prakash’, 1832, Expurgated by Vir Singh, Pa.414 ‘Listening [to coming of Afghans] the Singhs got ready weapons and chain mail they adorned on body. Chatka goats, they drunk goblets of opium and Sukha, Gurbakhsh Singh was the groom others the wedding party.’ ‘Naveen Panth Prakash’, Giani Gian Singh Nirmala, 1899, Bhasha Vibhag, Pa.928 ‘Q:Sant Gurbachan Singh was initiated into the Khalsa at Budha Dal? A:Yes. Q:What was his ‘Maryada’ (tradition)? A: His ‘Maryada’ - at first he drank ‘Sukha Sukhnidan’ (a protein drink laced with cannabis – a favourite amongst all Nihang Singhs). Even when he stayed with Sant Sundar Singh, he ground ‘Sukha’ because he was used to this in the ‘Dal’ (ie, the Budha Dal). He fully respected the ‘Dal’ it was not otherwise. Sant [Gurbachan Singh] was a very good poet what ever sermon was given in morning [by Baba Sundar Singh Ji] he use to by evening turn it into poetry and read it translating it to the Sant who was greatly pleased by this. The Sukha etc……. Meat he had already given up on coming to Sant Sundar Singh - because from there [budha Dal], he had come over here [samparda Bhindra]. ‘Sukha’ he then gave up when he attained responsibility of leadership.’ Giani Gurdev Singh, transcript of interview on October 2001 ‘Q: Did Sant Gurbachan Singh accept the traditions of the Nihang Singhs that they have come from the beginning? A: Yes absolutely. Giani Gurdev Singh, transcript of interview on November 2001 ‘He [baba Gurbachan Singh] never said that you don’t eat meat. They use to say it is the Panth’s traditions [to eat Chatka] but giving wisdom use to explain that, “Oh revered one by eating that which causes pain to body and the mind fills with vice is ruin.” [translation of a quote Guru Adi Durbar], understand because your eating habits have effect on your spiritual state. How is your food - so is your mind….. He said it is not an absolute rule that you do not eat meat. Eat but when there is need for it for instance in battle you are fighting at that time in battle you cannot get anything else to eat. At that time to eat meat is not a sin because then you are to sacrifice your own life.’ Giani Gurdev Singh, transcript of interview on October 2001 ‘They [Chowk Mehta] just make it all up [referring to the lineage to extending to Akali Nihang Baba Deep Singh]. Jarnail Singh did not get the turban of succession. The turban was given to Mohan Singh. He was given the turban. There [bhindra], four villages heads gathered, at that time at present I do not know, at that they said who ever those four village heads accepted as worthy of the succession turban they bound it upon him. At that time, the ‘Dera’ [the Bhindra temple complex] was run by Mohan Singh. He [Kartar Singh], did not even stay in the Dera. He was very ‘Krody’ (aggressive/argumentative) in nature even though he was the student of the same teacher [as Baba Mohan Singh, ie. Baba Gurbachan Singh].’ Akali Nihang Baba Anoop Singh, transcript of interview on 1/4/2004 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 LOL! Jagdeep's bias coming out in his 'research' for Sarloh. I know some of the people mentioned as interviewees personally, and they have the utmost respect for the Taksal. Quite a few Nihang Dals have always sent Bhujangis to learn Santhiya from various branches of the Taksal, and continue to do so. How about asking Baba Nihal Singh Ji, Baba Surjeet Singh Ji, Baba Joginder SIngh Ji, Baba Avtar Singh Ji, Baba Prem Singh Ji, what they think of DamDami Taksal? There has to be a limit to ego and hate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 if leadership of taksal did not go to Sant Kartar Singh ji, one wonders why almost all of the old singhs went with him to mehta?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipledgeblue Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 LOL! Jagdeep's bias coming out in his 'research' for Sarloh. I know some of the people mentioned as interviewees personally, and they have the utmost respect for the Taksal. Quite a few Nihang Dals have always sent Bhujangis to learn Santhiya from various branches of the Taksal, and continue to do so. How about asking Baba Nihal Singh Ji, Baba Surjeet Singh Ji, Baba Joginder SIngh Ji, Baba Avtar Singh Ji, Baba Prem Singh Ji, what they think of DamDami Taksal? There has to be a limit to ego and hate. hmm interesting 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) the way i see it is that Nirmal Panth is a way of life, a jeevan. Just like Udasi and seva panthi way of life. There is no such Taksal way of life. Taksal is a jatha, not a samprdaye, so even if there was no mention by any texts, it makes no difference. Also, no matter what londonjat puts up, we have it in Sant Gurbachan Singhs own words. And as for 4 villages getting together to decide who gets taksal pagg, thats just so silly, that "4" villages can get togther anbd decide something like that. If i were you i would keep that hidden. Edited May 29, 2011 by chatanga1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipledgeblue Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 the way i see it is that Nirmal Panth is a way of life, a jeevan. Just like Udasi and seva panthi way of life. There is no such Taksal way of life. Taksal is a jatha, not a samprdaye, so even if there was no mention by any texts, it makes no difference. Also, no matter what londonjat puts up, we have it in Sant Gurbachan Singhs own words. And as for 4 villages getting together to decide who gets taksal pagg, thats just so silly, that "4" villages can get togther anbd decide something like that. If i were you i wouldnt keep that hidden. hey its upto to decide the sources, I have no idea which source is true or false, I just posted up some quotes that is all... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 hey its upto to decide the sources, I have no idea which source is true or false, I just posted up some quotes that is all... if you knew the history of that source, you would know that it's clearly false. The website of a group of self-serving revisionist historians with a track record of changing their website to sell their story better! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipledgeblue Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 if you knew the history of that source, you would know that it's clearly false. The website of a group of self-serving revisionist historians with a track record of changing their website to sell their story better! ok then I shall keep myself alert 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 ok then I shall keep myself alert bro. its not alertness you need, but an awareness to research yourself what you have been told, and to be able to have the guts to change your thinking on discovering conflicting views. Not just accepting everything you're told. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NirmalaSengh Posted November 12, 2021 Report Share Posted November 12, 2021 On 5/1/2011 at 1:17 AM, Xylitol said: ddt is actually from Missl Shaheedan, same with Bhai Bidhi Chand nihang dal. Baba Bidhi Chand Dal was created not long ago the Mukhi's family lineage goes back to Baba Bidhichand Ji but it was never formally created by Baba Bidhi Chand Ji it was created by Baba Daya Singh Ji as they had asked Budha Dal to provide them with the horses and started there dal formally from there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsethi Posted November 13, 2021 Report Share Posted November 13, 2021 Can anyone help me find all the written granths by Sant Sanpuran Singh ji I have kabit by bhai gurdas ji and Bhagat Bani I believe there are others but I am unsure. His writings are very similar to what my grandfather has taught me about Chetan(sat guru) and shabad surat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backward Posted April 27, 2022 Report Share Posted April 27, 2022 @Gsethi please share more about what your grandfather taught you about Chetan (Satguru) and shabad surat? I have come to the same conclusion and seen this in evidenced in adhyatam parkaash as well as through the katha of baba dalel singh ji...any sources provided would be great. Sant Sanpuran Singh ji was supposedly a braj brilliance 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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