Hans Raj Hans Converts To Islam

[Jonny101]

Good one Neo, appears to another Neil Armstrong type Muslim propaganda then.

That Neil Armstrong story is still making rounds. Not too long ago I was debating a Muslim who told me that Neil Armstrong converted to Islam after he heard the Azaan in space lol and later moved to Palestine.

[GtLoc]

Kuldip Manak was not "quite close to Islam", he was a Muslim who was buried when he died in 2011. His real name was Latif Mohd. It's like Dalip Kumar is Yusuf Khan in real life.

Kuldip Manak became a Sikh, but his community buries.

Religion does not change your tribe.

[1234]

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[dalsingh101]

Kuldip Manak became a Sikh, but his community buries.

Religion does not change your tribe.

Here we go....

Our religion teaches us to let go of our tribal identities.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

That Neil Armstrong story is still making rounds. Not too long ago I was debating a Muslim who told me that Neil Armstrong converted to Islam after he heard the Azaan in space lol and later moved to Palestine.

Aazan in space? Mind you though they consider the earth to be flat, so for them anything is possible.

[Jonny101]

Aazan in space? Mind you though they consider the earth to be flat, so for them anything is possible.

That's not all, almost everyday we hear of Muslims claiming some celebrity becoming a Muslim. They even claim Jesus was Muslim!

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

That's not all, almost everyday we hear of Muslims claiming some celebrity becoming a Muslim. They even claim Jesus was Muslim!

Even you are a MUSLIM!!! Just jokes.

[JungChamkaur]

If he became Muslim, who cares...... seriously shutup. Your not trying to get your daughter to marry him so SHUTUP. Seriously immature posts here. Its non of your business what he does. This is a personal matter stay out of it. If some loser kids want to idolize him and follow him into his conversion or whatever thats their prerogative, stay out of that too.

[Jonny101]

If he became Muslim, who cares...... seriously shutup. Your not trying to get your daughter to marry him so SHUTUP. Seriously immature posts here. Its non of your business what he does. This is a personal matter stay out of it. If some loser kids want to idolize him and follow him into his conversion or whatever thats their prerogative, stay out of that too.

We are not like Hindus who kill Christian missionaries and burn churches in India or like Muslims who kill apostates for leaving the religion. But we are entitled to our own opinion and are free to express it.So you shut up!

Edited February 22, 2014 by Jonny101

[chatanga1]

Parents Sikhs as in SGPC, neo Tat Khalsa definition? to be a 'Sikh' he should not have faith in anythng else but Granth sahib, this guy is a head of a sufi dera! weird attitude those sehajdharis/hindus who have firm belief in GGS are ridiculed and even assaulted but everyone is falling over each other to claim HRH (a pop singer) is a Sikh.

no-one is claimng anything. i said his parents are sikhs, but again he doesnt seem to be a follower of gurmat. calm down.

[PAL 07]

good on him...he is closer to god thats what matters, first he ditched singing foul songs and concentrated on classical music now hes into sufi music.
better than shinda and jazzy b who are hypocrytes singing shyyt for a living

[mrsingh]

Thanks to ultra right wing singh sabha idealogy- black and white idealogy on who is a sikh and who isnt- black and white..approach.. Actual gurmat sikhi and puratan samparda's who followed old traditional sikhi never made sikhi exculsive faith it was always been inclusive open to all. Nirmale and udasi (modern day hybrid group -udasi + khalsa- 3ho) to this day like puratan times- give naam vidhiya, preach sikh adhyatam to all regardless whoever they are without any string attached, conditioning, approach is natural where one can relate to sikhi spiritually and get peace, its also very nicely packaged-connected to one self- scientific spiritual reasoning and effective for most part many monaie ended up growing kesh and take amrit after a year or so. But according to neo tat khalsa singh sabha/other right wing sikhs abroad they are not even sikhs.

Radhaswamis/Nirankaris and also dodra were able to tap on udasi and nirmale spirituality parchar approach and captalized on it and look how well they did.!!

If one is not introduced to sikh spirituality hand in hand with basic rehit framework, - raw standalone bunch of sharia bodily rules are too sour- does not work..sure it can give people temporary high- people loose interest and move on as they cannot handle daily tribal bickering of sikhs who cannot get past begineer sharia basic level of dharam- outer discussion kachera color-length/kara kirpan size, manmat/gurmat club discussions) as neo tat khalsa singh sabha incompetent reformist missionary christian sikhi can only go that far..

You want to save sikhi, go back to roots of adhyatam- ferengi reformist christian protestant sikhi can only go so far and off course ferengi sikhi mixed with political activism (post 1984) is dangerous mix...most of western born punjabi sikhs(especially ladies) simply cannot be arsed..they have bettter peace of mind following one aspect of sikhi- spiritual culture-yoga/kundalini of west...can't blame them.

Paji, you are a legend and inspiration to me, but why do you insist on connecting the words Singh Sabha with right wing ideology? Lahore Singh Sabha under Giani Ditt Singh bought lakhs of Hindu's and Muslims into the Panth. Could they have done so if they were as black and white as you paint them to be? Sikhi is open to all full stop. Those that claim different are clearly determined to keep the Sikh population as small as possible so that we cannot collectively effect societal change for the betterment of all globally (but continue to suffer discrimination as a powerless and microscopic global community). But I agree with the general direction of everything you said apart from the first sentence!

White sikhs treatment remind me of how dalits were treated by neo singh sabha. Typical jatts pendu/punjabi mentality in our panth, they cannot let go of control and tribalism.

I was lucky i was born in calcutta so i do have a bit of eagle eyes on overall suitation- biggest threat sikhi has its internal and punjabi tribalism-

Tribal punjabis are most self righteous, self loathing, self praising, self absorbed, self policing, self entitled, self privileged group of people i have ever met.!!

They talk about anakh, there is a difference between false pride and genuine pride, punjabi tribal own worst enemy is their own vanity.

We need to realize there is a diffference between genuine pride and gajini type of false pride/ego.

Guru Maharaj has said, ਗਰਬ ਗੰਜਨ ਦੁਸਟ ਭੰਜਨ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦਾਇਕ ਕਾਮ || Thou art the Destroyer of ego, the vanquisher of tyrants and performer of works leading to salvation.

Again Paji i agree with much of what you say but I have to again strongly disagree where you falsely slander Singh Sabha. Lahore Singh Sabha were at the forefront of fighting the Hindu Mahants that discriminated against so-called low castes. Unless you more likely meant to state Taksal and Nihangs against whom there is indeed evidence of this depraved discrimination in the 20th centrury. Hence, why so many Hindu's came into the Sikh Panth through the Lahore Singh Sabha's push for equality as preached in Gurbani to be put into practice. Giani Ditt Singh as the leading voice and brains of Lahore Singh Sabha was absolutely hated by the Hindu's and Muslims alike for, according to them, being a chamar who had the intelligence to demolish any Islamic or Hindu argument. To us Sikhs, of course, we are proud of Khalsa Ji Giani Ditt Singh who fought tirelessly against caste and against various other evils afflicting our society increased after 1849.

Too much paranoia, Sikhs/Khalsas becoming increasingly paranoid. Dal Singh is right, nothing about HRH shows that he was/is a Sikh. There are many like him who would like to be left alone as far as their spiritual allegiance is concerned. Going by SGPC, neo Tat Khalsa definition HRH is NOT a Sikh. period.

Hans Raj Hans always was and still is a Sikh. The 1950 SGPC definition of what defines a Sikh was a deliberate attempt by the Panth's enemies to limit the population of the Sikh Panth to as small a minority as possibile and to facilitate the absorption of non-Punjabi Sikhs in other states into the classification of Hindu and thereby increase the political "Hindu" votebank. Dal Singh is a legend but I disagree that HRH was never Sikh. I respect HRH to the maximum for his efforts as a Sikh (of Sufi tendencies) to combat the wretched practise of female infanticide. HRH bows Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and since that alone was the puratan definition of what defines a Sikh that is good enough for me. I dislike prayers at gravesides but classifying him a non-Sikh will not discourage the practise but encouraging him to study Gurbani in greater depth may well. He is 100% Sikh. You should be aware that he even fought on the Akali Dal ticket in Jalandhar. Glad to see him denounce the false Pakistani propaganda as being blatantly fake.

Kuldip Manak was not "quite close to Islam", he was a Muslim who was buried when he died in 2011. His real name was Latif Mohd.

Kuldip Manak was not Muslim. Though he was born as Latif Mohd on hearing the bravery of Banda Singh Bahadur and Banda Singh Bahadur's jouney towards Amrit, he took the name Kuldip Singh. His burial was staged by Muslim members of his family unhappy at his open discarding of Islam in his life decades ago merely for the reason of seeking to save face within the Ummah. What surprises me is that Yudhvir Manak, his son (a Sikh) permitted his so-called estranged Muslim family members to pull such a stunt in Punjab of all places. Kuldip Singh Manak's antim Ardas was done at a Gurdwara and not at a Mosque.

Parents Sikhs as in SGPC, neo Tat Khalsa definition? to be a 'Sikh' he should not have faith in anythng else but Granth sahib, this guy is a head of a sufi dera! weird attitude those sehajdharis/hindus who have firm belief in GGS are ridiculed and even assaulted but everyone is falling over each other to claim HRH (a pop singer) is a Sikh.

The Sufi Dera that HRH is to a limited degree involved with does not have any faith in Islam. It merely stresses upon the oneness of God. I don't agree with HRH's beliefs but he is absolutely Sikh and his activism in respect of female infanticide garner my respect for him on that alone. I wish all gravestones be discarded as places of worship personally but each to his own, the Truth will triumph in the end.

A Muslim qazi buried KM acc to Islamic rites. kyon ainee besharmi kar reha hain?

That was all politics inspired by Muhammad Izhar Alam, who realised that open admission of Kuldip Manak as a non-Muslim would open the floodgates for Muslims in Punjab to gravitate towards Sikhi. What's sad is that some Sikhs (following Badal's directions to allow Alam to control the matter) allowed this despite the fact Kuldip Singh Manak was a Sikh. Albeit Kuldip Manak was a sehajdhari Sikh but his funeral had a Qazi to simply ensure a political funeral in the name of all religions being equally correct in their ideology ... regardless of whether Kuldip Manak agreed with the rape, slavery and paedophilia supported in the Quran or not.

Edited February 23, 2014 by mrsingh

[dalsingh101]

Picking up a thread from the previous post by mrsingh:

Neo Bhai ji, one of things we should be conscious of is the great discrepancy between elements of the original Singh Sabha movement and that which it has petered into today - a scarcely concealed platform for Jat pendu style politics and aspirations. mrsingh has rightly pointed out that there does seem to have been some genuine efforts at equality in the original movement, especially by Giani Ditt Singh - which is ironic given the Singh Sabha current incarnation.

On the otherside, I think that mrsingh, is overlooking some of the more unpalatable aspects of the sabhas, i.e. their open support of (and collaboration with) militant Anglo imperialism/colonialism and the way many of the founders seem to have completely brought into western notions without any discerning criticism. If it wasn't outright, it did border on sycophancy.

Edited February 23, 2014 by dalsingh101

[Guest]

Sorry guys just to clarify i m not against good intentions or orginal singh sabha, orginal singh sabha, many nirmale , udasi and great sants such as bhai vir singh ji, bhai kahn singh nabha, sant sunder singh bhindranwale, sant attar singh ji mustaneywale were part of it too - they did great work, lot of great reforms which was much needed, what followed afterwards needs to be put under microscope as it was influenced by protestant victorian sikhi which inadvertently went against foundation of old traditional gurmat theology.

[Jonny101]

Agree you dont kill Xtisn missionaries and burn churches or mosques you kill Hindus instead and ravidassis and dera premis, Nirankaris, communists. so SHUT UP too!

You know the issues still you are acting ignorant on purpose. Sikhs don't kill anyone including Hindus for converting Sikhs. But if someone is going to insult Guru Granth Sahib Jee or kills Sikhs then Sikhs will also not stay quiet. We don't go around killing Christian missionaries, raping their elderly nuns like the terrorists of Bajrang Dal do or kill helpless poor Christians in orissa, that is something only Hindus and Muslims do. This is why Khalsa Raaj is needed so much. Hindus, Muslims, Christians are all suffering. Only Khalsa Raaj can bring peace.

[dalsingh101]

His burial was staged by Muslim members of his family unhappy at his open discarding of Islam in his life decades ago merely for the reason of seeking to save face within the Ummah

Nah man, I saw an interview of his towards the end of his life and he openly expressed his closeness to Islam in it.

I'm no Islamophile, but even he did revert back to Islam, I'd still respect him for many of his folk tunes ( not the alcoholic Jatt fudu type songs he made; like Jatt hogaya sharaabi kevaabi etc.)

[GtLoc]

Here we go....

Our religion teaches us to let go of our tribal identities.

It teaches you to have loyalty to the nishaan sahib. Not change from left handed to right.

And family is family, they are muslims and wanted to do that. Otherwise why did all these purataan sikhs including gurus not marry outside their tribe?

To this day, nobody can answer that but they consider with the christian propaganda. The tribal identity allows you to have fast contact and know your relations. It makes a community stronger,

I know why you don't care, but I won't say anything

--

I've read that Sikhs don't stress cremation. Blood is thicker than water that is all, they are estranged from Manak sahib, but not necessarily from all the family today.

There is the political aspect, but Muslims can't challenge Sikhs anywhere so..

That is temporary

Edited February 23, 2014 by GtLoc

[dalsingh101]

And family is family, they are muslims and wanted to do that. Otherwise why did all these purataan sikhs including gurus not marry outside their tribe?

You are obviously an archetype pendu who doesn't know what he is talking about.

Have you tried to do any serious research before you open your mouth?

Have you read Panjabi sources?

Read Rattan SIngh Bhangu's work for example and see how Sikh jats were fighting nonSikh jats.

Read Prem Sumarag and see how caste in marriage was only begrudgingly tolerated with a view to a future when such things would not matter.

Read Parchaian Sewa Das where Guru Gobind Singh openly asks someone in the sangat to give his daughter to a poor Sikh without mouthing off about caste constraints.

If you're THAT ignorant, don't advertise it so much dude.

So you love your caste, like hordes of other pendu jats - okay, cool - but don't try and justify your backwardness with Sikhi or Sikh history please.

[mrsingh]

Agree you dont kill Xtisn missionaries and burn churches or mosques

you kill Hindus instead and ravidassis and dera premis, Nirankaris, communists. so SHUT UP too!

Sikhs don't kill Hindu's as can be seen clearly from 1984. Sikhs as true Ravidassi's cannot kill themselves though Dera Ballan mobs employed by Congress have tried to instigate Sikhs (without success I may add). Dera Sirsa adherents have indeed killed Sikhs and Gurbachana of the Nirankari's did revel in his part in killing 13 Sikhs in 1978. The communist leadership of the Soviet Union fully supported Indira Gandhi's terrorist plans to murder thousands of innocent pilgrims on the Shaheedi Diwas of Guru Arjan Dev Ji Maharaj in 1984.

Nah man, I saw an interview of his towards the end of his life and he openly expressed his closeness to Islam in it.

I'm no Islamophile, but even he did revert back to Islam, I'd still respect him for many of his folk tunes ( not the alcoholic Jatt fudu type songs he made; like Jatt hogaya sharaabi kevaabi etc.)

Paji first off absolutely brilliant to see you posting here. Your anti-caste stance has always made me so proud of you as a fellow Sikh!

I wish every single Sikh in the Diaspora had the same passion for kul nash that you do (and no Dal Singh didn't pay me to say this)!

Paji re Kuldip Singh Manak ... even I'm close to Islam in as much as that I also believe in monotheism - doesn't make me Muslim and neither was KM - he genuinely rejected it and the support for slavery, peadophilia and rape in the Quran that goes with it and i believe it to be unfair that Muhammad Izhar Alam and others are trying to re-cast what the man believed in - the same Sikhi that inspired Banda Singh Bahadur Ji.

As for those pathetic Jatt this Jatt that tunes ... i'm sure you're aware that the famous Muslim Jatt record label from Birmigham deliberately pimps those ... and sadly 315 years after 1699 we Sikhs still cannot see the wood from the trees to rise beyond such vile ignorance!

Otherwise why did all these purataan sikhs including gurus not marry outside their tribe?

Bir'ay don't believe the hype. That was nonsense authored by anti-Sikh authors to hoodwink us into believing that lie and thereby perpetuating the caste system within our ranks. The enemies of the Sikhs know that once we are 100% united our Panth will be unstoppable so please don't read into the narrative of anti-Sikh authors. Their lies are demolished by one simple glaring fact. Mata Gujjar Kaur Ji were of Gujjar ancestry. The spouses of our Guru Sahiban came from various ancestries but all were deliberately stated by Mughal and other anti-Sikh authors to be Khatri on the basis that a wife assumes a husband's caste upon marriage (despite the fact that we all know that our Guru Sahib had and have no caste). Case closed.

Edited February 27, 2014 by mrsingh

[GtLoc]

Here we go....

Our religion teaches us to let go of our tribal identities.

Exactly, Jatt of the Guru, not of the Khap.

[Jonny101]

Exactly, Jatt of the Guru, not of the Khap.

I like to keep links for Chrisians and Muslims in order to see what's going on in their head. Just today I was talking to a Christian who said he is going to India to preach Christianity to the Hindus. He told me that the main points he will use against Hinduism is their caste system. Believe it or not, but the caste system is a huge negative point of India. Otherwise the Sametic religions have nothing to offer over Dharma religions which are much more advanced than the middle eastern religions. Now Sikhi is in the advantage that Gurmat also does not believe in the caste system.

We need to get rid of this casteism mindset. Jaat Paat means nothing. Aatma has no caste or race. That is why Guru Jee has said Manas Ki Jaat Sabai EK Pehchanbo. Furthurmore, a Sikh should not even think of another Sikh's caste.

Guru Jee has said "Amrit Ko Pani kahe, Sikh ki Poochai Jaat, Kahe Gobind Singh, Nand Laal Jee, Seedhe Jampur Jaat!

Meaning, "a Sikh who says Amrit is just mere water and a Sikh who inquire's about another Sikh's caste", Says Gobind Singh: "Nand Laal Jee, he will go straight to the pits hell!"

[jaikaara]

Johnny veera if he saying he is going to preach only to the hindus he is lying ..if you see the number of churches coming up in Punjab you will be surprised ...the christian missionaries call it crusades ..which is equivalent to dharamyudh ..a holy war ..

Edited February 28, 2014 by jaikaara

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Johnny veera if he saying he is going to preach only to the hindus he is lying ..if you see the number of churches coming up in Punjab you will be surprised ...the christian missionaries call it crusades ..which is equivalent to dharamyudh ..a holy war ..

Not being a radical, but apparently the most alcohol consumed in the world is by the Vatican.

[GtLoc]

R

Read Parchaian Sewa Das where Guru Gobind Singh openly asks someone in the sangat to give his daughter to a poor Sikh without mouthing off about caste constraints.

If you're THAT ignorant, don't advertise it so much dude.

So you love your caste, like hordes of other pendu jats - okay, cool - but don't try and justify your backwardness with Sikhi or Sikh history please.

Don't love my caste, but for example in sakhi of bhai sukha singh his mother says we are kum valee jaat the Singhs rule lands and are jatts.

I'm going to do research, I read a bit of prem sumarag but Idk. I'll read suraj prakash, but one thing saying that point of khalsa was to standardize warrior I.e no caste no creed.

It doesn't mean no caste no creed, it means no send plebs in first and save men of our 'tribe'. We all fight for honor (dharam).

I'll look up more, but it still doesn't change that I'm a saka. You've said previously, the scythian thing is a myth. How do you explain r1b absent where turks are but present in Europe and North India.

Not even deflecting topic, you don't have to be right about everything; only still standing.

I bring up tribe because it's something our people unite on. I'm not some crazy idealist talking about whole panth does japji sahib, we will gain wings and get khalsa raaj of India.

An India half dalit, half high caste. Half naal controlled, half a fascist government that hate Us.

Why would I care about a caste, when I'll be dust by the next century? It doesn't mean, I won't show steel in my liver.

My dream, is to sit on a khotha with a black dastaar and a rifle in a free Punjab, and just chill.

I don't care how, if I have to ( if we have to) kick all the hindu khatris and bramins out; sh*t I'll do it at gun point.

Don't hate on the pind so much, 80% Sikh especially my quom are from there.

Edit - those flying milkhas talking of khalsa raaj all over, don't understand war. They even talk of Sikhs not bring brave today, yet forget millions of shaheeds of 80s and 90s. We both know 20 or 150k is a fake number.

There is a sakhi that Guru Gobind Singh Ji told Singhs to take big jagirs everywhere. They said no, we will rule in Punjab.

Until finding otherwise, I'm a Jatt first. My personal way, of escaping neo Sikhi. Because, I personally have no interest in someone like guru Gobind study circle telling kids wear bana when they don't even know what a safety is.

If you local, you know what that is.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹਿ | |

And, I still don't like 'Sher'.

Edited February 28, 2014 by GtLoc

[Jonny101]

Johnny veera if he saying he is going to preach only to the hindus he is lying ..if you see the number of churches coming up in Punjab you will be surprised ...the christian missionaries call it crusades ..which is equivalent to dharamyudh ..a holy war ..

Well the Christian I was talking to is going to some other part of India and his main target is going to be Hindus. As a result he has been learning Hindi and learning about he Hindu religion. These guys are very sophisticated in what they do. It's always good to have links with preachers of other religions to see what they're thinking.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Jonny101