PAL 07 Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Edited February 24, 2014 by PAL 07 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 58 mins ?can you tell us what he says without us having to lose 1 hour of this life please? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 58 mins ?can you tell us what he says without us having to lose 1 hour of this life please? Yes please ! Should you spend 58 mins listening to his foolish justifications about flesh, or should you spend that time meditating ? I know, what my answer is 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAL 07 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) 58 mins ?can you tell us what he says without us having to lose 1 hour of this life please?This guy calls himself a professor. To acquire that title you need to have a PhD. That's 10 years study. This guy has been fooling Sikh for years. This is the first audio I have listened to of this clown Basically he twists bhai guard as ki var and states that amrit is only for the atma...what he forgets is that garib nawaz kalgidar pats ah states that amrit is broken if you do any of the 4 kurehats. Now these 4 kurehars are related to the body. One is the consumption of halaal meat. The atma and the body are sewn together ie the 5 kosh Now all religion of India emphasize satvic ahaar. This guy is saying that eating meat only affects the body and not mind or atma. But read sooraj granth where the sakhi about food. Guru jee emphasis on satvic food meat rajo gun food will increase sex and anger and violence in the body. Gurbani clearly is against meat and promotes eating kicharee which is rice and daal soup. Now this clown is promoting meat eating saying it is gurmat. But sri RAAg says give no pain to any living animal you will go to your home with respec Hak paraya nanaka us soor us gayee eat. Fareeda Maas name kahe How can you justify grabbing an animal and slaughtering it. Obviously there is some pain element it is against the natural cycle of the world creation. There was a Muslim who would kill animals, bhagvan ramana maharishi was against meat eating he was his friend. Bhagvan stopped going to his house when he knew he used to eat meat. His Muslim friend considered him as a valee Allah and gave up meat. Soon this Muslim from poverty got a high statusjob. Read sshe kinehia all saints have been against meat. Baba band singh made some grant his eat fruit and carrots for 6 months then they could do path ki Seva Good job on akaal ta hat for sacking this clown the way he behaved when he went to akAl takht this guy is no professor of Sikhism he is fed by Indian government to fool Sikhs and cause rivalry and controversy so that people become confuzed So many people support this guy because he did a lot of good keertan, he gathered supporters, he became the perfect bait for anti Sikh groups who colluded with him to divide Sikhs. Today basic Sikhs say oh what a good guy he was and that akasl takhat is bad that excommuniated. This was all a clever plan by missionaries and Kala afgana gang to break the akaal takht. But this clown is against nitnem and dasam granth here is another audio of this clown giving a bad katha Edited February 24, 2014 by PAL 07 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarjeet Singh_1737 Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) 58 mins ?can you tell us what he says without us having to lose 1 hour of this life please? Imagine all the people who actually listened to him. That would be entire lives gone. Edited February 24, 2014 by Amarjeet Singh_1737 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarjeet Singh_1737 Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 But 50 cents 'Get Rich or Die Trying' sums him up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 This guy calls himself a professor. To acquire that title you need to have a PhD. That's 10 years study. This guy has been fooling Sikh for years. This is the first audio I have listened to of this clown Basically he twists bhai guard as ki var and states that amrit is only for the atma...what he forgets is that garib nawaz kalgidar pats ah states that amrit is broken if you do any of the 4 kurehats. Now these 4 kurehars are related to the body. One is the consumption of halaal meat. The atma and the body are sewn together ie the 5 kosh Now all religion of India emphasize satvic ahaar. This guy is saying that eating meat only affects the body and not mind or atma. But read sooraj granth where the sakhi about food. Guru jee emphasis on satvic food meat rajo gun food will increase sex and anger and violence in the body. Gurbani clearly is against meat and promotes eating kicharee which is rice and daal soup. Now this clown is promoting meat eating saying it is gurmat. But sri RAAg says give no pain to any living animal you will go to your home with respec Hak paraya nanaka us soor us gayee eat. Fareeda Maas name kahe How can you justify grabbing an animal and slaughtering it. Obviously there is some pain element it is against the natural cycle of the world creation. There was a Muslim who would kill animals, bhagvan ramana maharishi was against meat eating he was his friend. Bhagvan stopped going to his house when he knew he used to eat meat. His Muslim friend considered him as a valee Allah and gave up meat. Soon this Muslim from poverty got a high statusjob. Read sshe kinehia all saints have been against meat. Baba band singh made some grant his eat fruit and carrots for 6 months then they could do path ki Seva Good job on akaal ta hat for sacking this clown the way he behaved when he went to akAl takht this guy is no professor of Sikhism he is fed by Indian government to fool Sikhs and cause rivalry and controversy so that people become confuzed So many people support this guy because he did a lot of good keertan, he gathered supporters, he became the perfect bait for anti Sikh groups who colluded with him to divide Sikhs. Today basic Sikhs say oh what a good guy he was and that akasl takhat is bad that excommuniated. This was all a clever plan by missionaries and Kala afgana gang to break the akaal takht. But this clown is against nitnem and dasam granth here is another audio of this clown giving a bad katha i agree that Prof has lost the plot re Dasam Granth, but re meat, there is no right or wrong on meat/veg. both sides has ample ammunition to believe they are right. In the end Guru Sahib is right, when he tells us only fools argue over flesh. it's simple. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I can't believe we are still arguing over meat eating issue........ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GtLoc Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Blah blah guru nanak ate meat. 10th master ordered hunting, Go f yourselves.. Dar shan is a traitor, I'm agreeing with dalsingh. If there hell, it's frozen. Chatanga he asks does not corn have bones, does sugar cane not cry? Stop limiting your mind to that of a goat, bleating same word 24/7. Qc here I come, lol you guys piss me off. We have historical evidence, showing Sikhs eating meat in Darbar Sahib after defeating abdali. We have whole tat khalsa bandai khalsa fifht, ending with eating meat. We have jhatka, You? All you have is 3ho and the Vatican.. O, plus Elizabeth 2 and Victoria. Edited February 28, 2014 by GtLoc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 We have historical evidence, showing Sikhs eating meat in Darbar Sahib after defeating abdali. . Please shed more light on this cause I'm truley curios. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GtLoc Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 The Guru believes in one God. His followers put not their faith in idol-worship. They never pray or practice austerities like the Hindus. They believe not in their incarnations, or places of pilgrimage nor the Sanskrit language which the Hindus deem to be the language of gods. They believe that all the Gurus are the same as Nanak. The Sikhs are not restricted in the matter of eating or drinking. When Partap Mall Giani saw a Hindu boy who had a mind to embrace Islam, he said, 'Why do you become a Muhammadan? If you have an inclination to eat everything, you may become a Sikh of the Guru and eat whatever you like. -Mohsin Fani, 'Dabistan-e-Mazahib.' It was finally under Guru Gobind Singh Ji that 'Jhatka' became an important aspect of the Khalsa's rehat. Especially the Akali Nihungs who consisted a majority of the panth at the time. 'Drink the immortal nectar and upon joining the Khalsa fold go hunting. Continually seek to perfect your use of weapons. Perform 'Jhatka' and eat goats. Do not even go near Halal meat.' -'Sri Gur Panth Prakash', Ratan Singh Bhangu, pg. 110. One day the Guru ordered for some goats to be brought, And ordered the Singhs to slaughter these animals. (4) As the Guru partook the meat of these slaughtered animals, He kept on throwing the bones into the neighbouring Muslims household, At this, the Muslim started abusing his Kshtriya neighbour, For throwing the left over bones into his house. (5) Dohra : Thereupon the Gurus host Gulab Chand prayed to the Guru, That he was a very poor and powerless citizen. If the Mughals came to know about this sheltering the Guru, They would, undoubtedly, kill him and his family. (6) Chaupai : Then Satguru started throwing coins into the Muslims house, Which made him keep silent after picking up those coins. After staying there for ten days in his manner, The Guru wished to move out of this place. (7) -'Sri Gur Panth Prakash,' Ratan Singh Bhangu, pg. 133. 'Always partake in hunting, practice killing deer and then eat your hunt.' -'Naveen Panth Prakash,' Gyani Gian Singh Nirmala, pg. 1589, volume 13. ਮਃ ੧ ॥ First Mehl: ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥ The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom. ਕਉਣੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਉਣੁ ਸਾਗੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਸਮਾਣੇ ॥ What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin? ਗੈਂਡਾ ਮਾਰਿ ਹੋਮ ਜਗ ਕੀਏ ਦੇਵਤਿਆ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੇ ॥ It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering. ਮਾਸੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਬੈਸਿ ਨਕੁ ਪਕੜਹਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਮਾਣਸ ਖਾਣੇ ॥ Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night. ਫੜੁ ਕਰਿ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਨੋ ਦਿਖਲਾਵਹਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਝੈ ॥ They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom. ਨਾਨਕ ਅੰਧੇ ਸਿਉ ਕਿਆ ਕਹੀਐ ਕਹੈ ਨ ਕਹਿਆ ਬੂਝੈ ॥ O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said. ਅੰਧਾ ਸੋਇ ਜਿ ਅੰਧੁ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਸਿ ਲੋਚਨ ਨਾਹੀ ॥ They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts. ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਕੀ ਰਕਤੁ ਨਿਪੰਨੇ ਮਛੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਨ ਖਾਂਹੀ ॥ They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat. ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਜਾਂ ਨਿਸਿ ਮੇਲਾ ਓਥੈ ਮੰਧੁ ਕਮਾਹੀ ॥ But when men and women meet in the night, they come together in the flesh. ਮਾਸਹੁ ਨਿੰਮੇ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਜੰਮੇ ਹਮ ਮਾਸੈ ਕੇ ਭਾਂਡੇ ॥ In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh. ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕਛੁ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਚਤੁਰੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਪਾਂਡੇ ॥ You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar. ਬਾਹਰ ਕਾ ਮਾਸੁ ਮੰਦਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਘਰ ਕਾ ਮਾਸੁ ਚੰਗੇਰਾ ॥ O master, you believe that flesh on the outside is bad, but the flesh of those in your own home is good. ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਸਭਿ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਹੋਏ ਜੀਇ ਲਇਆ ਵਾਸੇਰਾ ॥ All beings and creatures are flesh; the soul has taken up its home in the flesh. ਅਭਖੁ ਭਖਹਿ ਭਖੁ ਤਜਿ ਛੋਡਹਿ ਅੰਧੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਜਿਨ ਕੇਰਾ ॥ They eat the uneatable; they reject and abandon what they could eat. They have a teacher who is blind. ਮਾਸਹੁ ਨਿੰਮੇ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਜੰਮੇ ਹਮ ਮਾਸੈ ਕੇ ਭਾਂਡੇ ॥ In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh. ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕਛੁ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਚਤੁਰੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਪਾਂਡੇ ॥ You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar. ਮਾਸੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਤੇਬੀ| ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗਿ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਮਾਣਾ ॥ Meat is allowed in the Puraanas, meat is allowed in the Bible and the Koran. Throughout the four ages, meat has been used. ਜਜਿ ਕਾਜਿ ਵੀਆਹਿ ਸੁਹਾਵੈ ਓਥੈ ਮਾਸੁ ਸਮਾਣਾ ॥ It is featured in sacred feasts and marriage festivities; meat is used in them. ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਪੁਰਖ ਨਿਪਜਹਿ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ਸੁਲਤਾਨਾਂ ॥ Women, men, kings and emperors originate from meat. ਜੇ ਓਇ ਦਿਸਹਿ ਨਰਕਿ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਤਾਂ ਉਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕਾ ਦਾਨੁ ਨ ਲੈਣਾ ॥ If you see them going to hell, then do not accept charitable gifts from them. ਦੇਂਦਾ ਨਰਕਿ ਸੁਰਗਿ ਲੈਦੇ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਏਹੁ ਧਿਙਾਣਾ ॥ The giver goes to hell, while the receiver goes to heaven - look at this injustice. ਆਪਿ ਨ ਬੂਝੈ ਲੋਕ ਬੁਝਾਏ ਪਾਂਡੇ ਖਰਾ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥ You do not understand your own self, but you preach to other people. O Pandit, you are very wise indeed. ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੂ ਜਾਣੈ ਹੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਥਹੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਉਪੰਨਾ ॥ O Pandit, you do not know where meat originated. ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਅੰਨੁ ਕਮਾਦੁ ਕਪਾਹਾਂ ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਗੰਨਾ ॥ Corn, sugar cane and cotton are produced from water. The three worlds came from water. ਤੋਆ ਆਖੈ ਹਉ ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਹਛਾ ਤੋਐ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਬਿਕਾਰਾ ॥ Water says, "I am good in many ways." But water takes many forms. ਏਤੇ ਰਸ ਛੋਡਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੰਨਿਆਸੀ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਹੈ ਵਿਚਾਰਾ ॥੨॥ Forsaking these delicacies, one becomes a true Sannyaasee, a detached hermit. Nanak reflects and speaks. ||2|| -- I can't find the sakhi right now, but there's other instances of it to show it true. Example is Gurudawara Kirpan Bhet. These guys want to be vandai khalsa (for 'vandai mataram') all up to them. Not even, bandai khalsa because shaheed baba ji left it himself. Remember, how baba ji's son's heart was cut and put in his mouth? You guys try to do same, when misquoting and attempting to distort. Something, you will never be successful at. The guru's panth is the only absolute in the temporal world, and it starches past it. If you cannot fool it, how you think you can mess with word of vaheguru? ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹਿ | | 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Chatanga he asks does not corn have bones, does sugar cane not cry? Stop limiting your mind to that of a goat, bleating same word 24/7. OK, now that you've said, im expanding my vocabulary. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaikaara Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 http://www.sikhs.org/meat_gs.htm Misconceptions About Eating Meat by Sandeep Singh Brar Home >Resources > Essays & Articles > Essay The Times of the Gurus Hunting Purely for Amusement & Sport - Not for Any Religious Reasons Guru Gobind Singh, Vachitra Natak, Chapter 8, Chaupai 1-3 "When I became a Spiritual Sovereign, I tried to spread Religion to the best of my ability. I hunted various games in the forest, including bears, nilgaus and elks. Then, I left my home and proceeded towards the city of Paunta. On the banks of the Kalindri, I refreshed and amused myself with many kinds of amusements. There, I killed many ferocious lions and also nilgaus and elks." Bhai Gurdas, Var 26 Pauri 24 "Earlier Gurus sat on the pontific throne, Leading a life of peace and contentment; Hargobind keeps dogs for sports, And goes out for hunting wild animals." Creation of the Khalsa by Guru Gobind Singh in 1699All of the Sikh cronicles record the fact that during the ceremony of initiating the first five Sikhs into the Khalsa brotherhood Guru Gobind Singh asked for volunteers who would be willing to give their heads. He took each volunteer into the tent and a loud thud was heard and blood trickled out of the tent. Guru Gobind Singh then emerged from the tent with his sword dripping with blood and asked for the next volunteer. Eventually Guru Gobind Singh emerged from the tent with the five beloved ones alive. He pulled back the covers of the tent and revealed to the thousands gathered that he had really slaughtered five goats with his sword and not the five beloved ones. Guru Nanak Eating MeatBhai Mani Singh, Gyan Ratnavali, pg. 123 At Kurukshetra, a great centre of Hindu pilgrimage, where a big fair was being held on the occasion of the solar eclipse. A follower of the Guru offered him deer meat to eat. The Guru who had never made any distinction between one kind of food and another and took whatever was offered to him, did not refuse the courtesies of his devotee. And he allowed him to roast it for his food. A History of the Sikh People by Dr. Gopal Singh, World Sikh University Press, Delhi It first occurs in Bhai Mani Singh's Gyan Ratnavali (pg. 123) which mentions Nanak having been engaged in debate with a Pandit, called Nanau Chand. The deer-meat was, according to this version, brought to him as an offering by a Prince and his consort, who having been dispossessed of their realm, came to him for a blessing. In the dialogue that followed with the Pandit, he is not only convinced of Nanak's logic, but persuades also the fellow Brahmins, basing his argument on the Veda, the Puranas and even the Quran, saying that even the Hindu gods could be propieated since the earliest times only through yagnas in which meat was invariably served, and that it has been the dharma of the Kashatriya Kings since ages to hunt. Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das Eating Meat The Sikh Religion, Volume II by Max Arthur Macauliffe One day the Guru had a meat dinner prepared. Amar Das said, "If the Guru is a searcher of hearts, he must know that I am a Vaishnav and do not touch flesh". The Guru (Guru Angad), knowing this, ordered that dal should be served him. Amar Das then reflected, "The Guru knoweth that meat is forbidden me, so he hath ordered that dal be served me instead." Amar Das then rapidly arrived at the conclusion that any disciple, whose practice differed from that of the Guru, must inevitably fail. He therefore told the cook that if the Guru were kind enough to give him meat, he would partake of it. The Guru, on hearing this, knew that superstition was departing from Amar Das's heart, and he handed him his own dish. When Amar Das had partaken of it, he for the first time felt peace of mind, and as he became further absorbed in his attentions and devotion to the Guru, celestial light dawned on his heart. Thus did he break with the strictest tenet of Vaishnavism and become a follower of the Guru. One day the Guru, in order to further remove Amar Das's prejudices, thus began to instruct him: "The meats it is proper to abstain from are these - Other's wealth, other's wives, slander, envy, covetousness and pride. If any one abstaining from meat is proud on the subject and says, 'I never touch meat,' let him consider that the infant sucks nipples of flesh, that the married man takes home with him a vessel of flesh." Guru Angad then repeated and expounded Guru Nanak's sloks on the subject. He also related to Amar Das the story of Duni Chand and his father, giving in the Life of Guru Nanak. "If you think of it," continued the Guru, "there is life in everything, even in fruits and flowers, so say nothing of flesh; but whatever thou eatest, eat remembering God, and it shall be profitable to thee. Whatever cometh to thee without hurting a fellow creature is nectar, and whatever thou recievest by giving pain is poison. To shatter another's hopes, to calumniate others, and to misappropriate their property is worse than to eat meat." Macauliffe collaborated with the most learned Sikhs of his time when he wrote this over 100 years ago. The exact written source of this account is unknown. Guru Hargobind Eating Meat Mohsin Fani, Dabistan-e-Mazahib Mohsin Fani was a historian, traveller and mystic who was born around 1615 in Persia. During the lifetime of Guru Hargobind he migrated to India and studied the religions of India. He became very good friends with Guru Hargobind and spent a great deal of time with the Guru upto the Gurus death in 1644. In between 1645 and 1654 he produced his great work 'Dabistan-e-Mazahib' meaning 'the schools of thought of various religions'. This book provides the most accurate account of the life of Guru Hargobind and the Sikhs at that time. Mohsin Fani writes: "The Guru believes in one God. His followers put not their faith in idol-worship. They never pray or practice austerities like the Hindus. They believe not in their incarnations, or places of pilgrimage nor the Sanskrit language which the Hindus deem to be the language of gods. They believe that all the Gurus are the same as Nanak. The Sikhs are not restricted in the matter of eating or drinking. When Partap Mall Giani saw a Hindu boy who had a mind to embrace Islam, he said, 'Why do you become a Muhammadan? If you have an inclination to eat everything, you may become a Sikh of the Guru and eat whatever you like." Some use a quote from Mohsin Fani to prove that Guru Nanak and Guru Arjan did not allow Sikhs to eat meat. Since he only emigrated to India during the lifetime of Guru Hargobind, his information about Guru Nanak and Guru Arjan cannot be considered an eyewitness account of his. Also vegetarian proponents usually only give a partial quote, the full quote of his is: "Nanak himself abstained from animal food and the prudent Arjan endevoured to add to his saintly merit and influence by a similar moderation; but the adventurous Hargobind became a hunter and an eater of flesh, and his disciples imitated him in these robust practices." Gokul Chand Narang Another contemporary of the Guru, Gokul Chand Narang provides the following eyewitness acount: "Hargobind began to devote most of his time to wrestling, riding, tent-pegging and hunting the tigers and the boars. With the change of aims the occupation changed, and with the change in the occupation came a change in tastes and even diet. Animal food was not only sanctioned but encouraged." The Khalsa Army Under Banda Singh Bahadur Eating Meat An eyewitness account of the siege of the Khalsa army at Gurdaspur and how the Khalsa soldiers and Banda Singh Bahadur bravely held out against the Mughal army for eight months is provided below: Khafi Khan, Muntakhabul-Lubab, pg. 723 "The Sikhs were not strict observers of cast, they slaughtered oxen and other animals and not having any firewood, ate the flesh raw. Many died of dysentry and privation... when all the grass was gone, they gathered leaves from trees. When these were consumed, they stripped the bark and broke off the small shoots, dried them, ground them down and used them instead of flour, thus keeping body and soul together. They also collected the bones of animals and used them in the same way. Some assert that they saw a few of the Sikhs cut flesh from their own thights, roast it, and eat it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 One thing is we are never allowed to drink.That is certainly a kruheit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GtLoc Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 OK, now that you've said, im expanding my vocabulary. I'm a add sorry to mine, for the rudeness. But you know where I'm coming from? At singh bhaji, they probably meant as medicine. And maybe some Sikhs drank? Again, though even medicinal; some rehitnama said small amount of alcohol and feem is cool. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 They are not cool.They were only used as medicines and nothing more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny101 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Meat, Alcohol, Apheem are all allowed in Sikhi. Why don't we also add heroin, cocaine and Doday while we're at it. Edited February 28, 2014 by Jonny101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Alcohol, Apheem are all allowed in Sikhi. These are only for medicinal purposes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny101 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 These are only for medicinal purposes. Yes in cases of war like Puraatan times. How many wars are Sikhs fighting today that we need to use drugs for "medicinal" purposes? yet today apnay abuse these drugs like there's no tomorrow. Truth be told, fear of God has left our people. We do all sorts of Paap and justify it using all sorts of witty excuses. Not too long ago I was talking to a so called Singh who tried to justify having extra marital affairs. No matter what I said to him, he came up with all sorts of witty excuses of why having affairs is not only justifiable but even beneficial for his marriage and health. I couldn't help but nod my head in disbelief at how human beings can justify Paap. But in Gurbani it says, Paap Bura, Paapi Ko Pyara. A Paapi will always find Paap very endearing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 For example then we should not take Advil or aspirin cause they have drugs in them. I 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny101 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) For example then we should not take Advil or aspirin cause they have drugs in them. I No that's not the same. Aspirin and Advil are used for minor pains and headaches. I already said, people during olden times took Bhang when they would get injured in war with a sword cut or bullet wound. It was used as a pain killer. Today if people again go to war, then I don't see anything wrong with people taking these things to relieve their pain. But today unfortunately the opposite has happened. We don't have anymore wars, but Singhs are talking drugs for recreational purposes and justify this paap by saying we are doing what puraatan Singhs used to do. Edited February 28, 2014 by Jonny101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 No that's not the same. Aspirin and Advil are used for minor pains and headaches. I already said, people during olden times took Bhang when they would get injured in war with a sword cut or bullet wound. It was used as a pain killer. Today if people again go to war, then I don't see anything wrong with people taking these things to relieve their pain. But today unfortunately the opposite has happened. We don't have anymore wars, but Singhs are talking drugs for recreational purposes and justify this paap by saying we are doing what puraatan Singhs used to do. I fully agree 500% Drugs should be taken only in medications etc. Jhatka should only be done in war times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 GtLoc, Rehatnamas say alot. Rehatnamas also say that our Kakkaars were gifts from Hindu gods. Don't think you believe that The professor who studied all Rehatnamas and published them, Piara Singh Padam admitted that most of the Rehats attributed to 10th Guru or his close Sikhs were in fact written much later. Still they're an interesting read and some early Rehatnamas from the 1710s do exist. But the Desa Singh Rehatnama allow opium but was written post 1780 so that shows Sikhs by that time were already messed up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GtLoc Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 (edited) No that's not the same. Aspirin and Advil are used for minor pains and headaches. I already said, people during olden times took Bhang when they would get injured in war with a sword cut or bullet wound. It was used as a pain killer. Today if people again go to war, then I don't see anything wrong with people taking these things to relieve their pain. But today unfortunately the opposite has happened. We don't have anymore wars, but Singhs are talking drugs for recreational purposes and justify this paap by saying we are doing what puraatan Singhs used to do. Nobody is saying we should abuse drugs. However you are not being rational period. Last thing I would say is that Tylenol for example is an opiate. 2 or 3 500mg tylenol, is a lot more than one shot, one glass of sukha, or a cup of doday. So... Your hands still work in order to slap the amli people. Don't try to push the panth, into the hands of big pharma because you're afraid of a natural plant; but, not the machine filled capsule, with concentrate in it. (edit here - don't mean it in a mean way bhaji, but everything but naam is a foreign element to our bodies. Think about it, many of the properties of sugar in isolation could be considered a drug. Indeed, our brain reward cycle is what drugs really tap into. The difference is drug vs medicine is a question of addiction. People have different tolerance, and the gurus have created a culture, our kesh have been drenched in naam so if you really getting insomnia and you have some sukha, or one puff from a vape instead of sleeping pill. Are you now needing to go pesh? We are not colonized dogs who need to have the 'gubberment' say what is good and bad to go in our bellies. Tbh, they should listen to us; we know very well what the inside of a British gut looks like. Many sikhs today are doctors, because their ancestors were Khalsa-English War 'surgeons'.) Edit to above, I can see and understand that mentality. Each kakkar has a practical, spiritual and moral purpose/lesson. The kachera is a good example, the story of hanuman showing devotion to guru, underwear is cleaner, etc. Should we have invented nee figures when we already had valorous ones in front of us? No doubt, they were imperfect but so are other mortal things. They were 'gods' we worship and come from God. Is a soldier of the earl still not obligated to the king? We are soldiers of the king, we can still respect and point out flaws in the earls. The earl's (gods') agents cannot, hence the resentment, hatred, and jealousy. There I just described the political relationship, between hindus and Sikhs. Edited March 1, 2014 by GtLoc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GtLoc Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Meat, Alcohol, Apheem are all allowed in Sikhi. Why don't we also add heroin, cocaine and Doday while we're at it. Funny, you mention meat.. You know of the gurudawara at kurukhestra yes? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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