Niranjana Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Gur Fateh! I posted this query on another website and provide below the most comprehensive response I attained (note: these are not my views, but that of another forum member). I post this here to see if there are any views differing on the matter either from the questions I have asked and also with regard to the response I received. Look forward to hearing from you... GUR BAR AKKKKAAAAALLLLLL! *My post* There is much talk about Sarabloh, be it Bibek, Granth or what have you. I'm starting this thread to 'share' our 'thoughts' on the matter of the significance of Sarabloh for the Khalsa, however not explicitly with regard to Sarabloh Bibek or Sarabloh Granth (there are already many threads on these topics in existence), this is slightly wider...or simplier, why Sarabloh? Points to consider...(and not all necessarily Sikhi...just Sarabloh...to appreciate the ideaology) *Significance vis-a-vis other metals used in religious services, ceremonies and rituals (namely gold and copper), political/social reform... *Symbolic Value vis-a-vis availability for all/cheap (compared to gold, say), strength...tantra (importance of Iron to the Chandika/Kali aspect) and martial aspects... Look forward to your ideas and thoughts on this matter... GUR BAR AKAAAAAALLL!!! SAT SRI AKAAAAAL!!! -------------------- Dohraa Mahaa Kaal Kee Saran Jae Paray su lae bachae. Uor Na upjae doosar jag pachiyo sabhai banai.366 *Response from another forum member* Sarbloh is great!! Guru sahib himself does ustat of the power and says akal purakh himself resides in sarbloh. The power of sarbloh around your body and in your blood when doing naam simran is indescribable! I think for most of us its hard to understand, so I can explain it in western though/science. Most of the time (if you watch documenteries and things u will know) spirituality is related to our magnetic field around our body. We all have an electro magnetic field around us. Increases in this field have been measured when french nuns and tibetan monks were studied while praying. Ghost hunters also use machines that can read electromagnetic fields to find ghosts. anyway, all magnets are made from iron, iron is a metal with such a property that it effects magnetic fields in a special way. So gurbani says everything is made up of naam, naam vibrates in everything. There is a new quantum theory out that says all sub-atomic particals (proton, neurtrons, electrons) are made up of strings that are vibrating.. if you were to read a paper on this you would think of so many gurbani shabads! This single vibration is permeating everything.. so the answer science doesnt have is what is this vibration? NAAM!! So I think Sarbloh channels naam a lot better than anything else and having sarbloh around us and in us helps us channel our bhagti easier. Sarbloh has great and indescribable powers and is very beloved to our guru sahib. -------------------- 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 not read the post properly, but im a Titanium Rehht Person. lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 I would suggest to the author of the article if he/she wishes to boost their iron, then the best sources of iron, aside from chewing on a nail, is of course MAHAPARSHAD (esp the liver), and fresh blood (...sorry, had to mention this..sometimes the blood-lust gets too much) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 sarabloh has to be put in the context of Indian religions. Brahmanistic worship forbids the use of steel and only allows, gold, cupper, silver or earthen pots. By making steel the sacred metal Guru Gobind SIngh openly challenges the Brahmanistic values of his times. It is also a celebration of kshatriya-hood versus the supremacy of Brahmins. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihal_Kaur Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 hmmm i'm allergic to sarbloh... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 i remember once a person smacking a massive pole down on another singh's head and the singh was unmoved i would have still moved. even if i did have a sarbloh batta in my damala. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadz Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 me too muggermach i wouldve done a (admin-cut) in my pants 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihal_Kaur Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 my original posting that mugermuch and nadz replied to: could it be used for extra protection against attacks to the scalp? i remember once a person smacking a massive pole down on another singh's head and the singh was unmoved...all i heard was a "clunk" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 allergic to sarloh.... haaaaaaaw...... do a Jap Ji Sahib paath. lol no do 2. haaaaw. tut tut. nutters the lot of ya :shock: above post is all a joke: if i have offened any1 pls buy a sense of humour. thank you. Bull Chuck Maaf. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 well I know some people whose skin gets irritated by steel so what can they do? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihal_Kaur Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 lallesh a common remedy is to put clear nail varnish (topcoat, basecoat, or just clear long lasting varnish will do) on the underside of the kara, the bit that touches the skin...this is if you insist on wearing a kara you are allergic to. I don't know if this is beadbee of the kara :shock: this needs to be reapplied because it will come off, what you can do is take off the old varnish and reapply every week. What about coating the underside with almond oil? but for me this just seems to make it worse. :roll: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 u can get the kara heat treated, that will add a layer to the kara to stop it oxidising. Or u can get some kapra, and stick it to the indie of your kara, this will keep it warm in winter time too. But dont do a stupid thing and stick bright Orange, otherwise you'll look like a bhandur, get some nice kapra, dark colours, blue velvet, or black fleece etc. best thing to do, is get a titanium one. bit expensive though. And i know a close personal freind of my that can get them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihal_Kaur Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Gosh, your ideas sounded alot better than mine!!! :wink: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 you aint see the karas yet... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted November 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 sarabloh has to be put in the context of Indian religions. Brahmanistic worship forbids the use of steel and only allows, gold, cupper, silver or earthen pots. By making steel the sacred metal Guru Gobind SIngh openly challenges the Brahmanistic values of his times. It is also a celebration of kshatriya-hood versus the supremacy of Brahmins. Gur Fateh! Thanks for this, in my post (the blue coloured one!) I expressed a similar notion that iron being a metal which is cheap and easily available to all, counters the likes of gold, which predominantly feature in most brahmanical traditions. By this, I mean, two things, firstly iron symbolises strength (for obvious reasons) and secondly humility in that it is available to all regardless of their social standing –this, I personally believe to be ‘one’ of the many reasons for the use of terms such as Sarab Loh and Maha Loh in Dasam Bani as metaphors for Akaal. On the point of strength, similarly I find that the inclusion of the sarabloh kirpan and sarabloh kara in the 5Ks to be a direct parallel to the requirement under brahmanic traditions to wear 5 items of gold (sorry, I don’t have references to hand for this) –in the latter case, all one does is worry about being mugged or attacked, hence weakening their state of mind, with the 5 K’s in particular the Sarab Loh elements, one feels empowered to defend themselves and others... To touch on the bibeki element briefly, one thing I’ve always found interesting are the Scythian People. In ancient Europe they are believed to have worshiped the sword as a manifestation of power. Archaeologists have found graves believed to belong such people where the deceased have been buried with a sword and a small metal cauldron...this may be premature on my part, but the first thing that comes to mind is the notion of Sarabloh Shaster and Sarabloh Bata (Degh, Tegh...) Narsingha, if you were referring to me in the iron count, no worries, but I’m a lacto-vegetarian and have no issues with my iron levels (plenty of saag, methi, nuts and seeds does the trick and also provides loads of zinc to keep things running smooth!)...however as you do bring up the matter of meat...any thoughts on the chandika/kalika aspects associated with the metal iron? Ashiduj, Asipan... GUR BAR AKAAAAL! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 To touch on the bibeki element briefly, one thing I’ve always found interesting are the Scythian People. In ancient Europe they are believed to have worshiped the sword as a manifestation of power. Archaeologists have found graves believed to belong such people where the deceased have been buried with a sword and a small metal cauldron...this may be premature on my part, but the first thing that comes to mind is the notion of Sarabloh Shaster and Sarabloh Bata (Degh, Tegh...) well Jats are an Indo-Scythian tribe actually so it makes sense :wink: Akaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Surprised no one has mentioned Sarbloh Avtar in relation to the use of Sarbloh within Sikhi Then again, it may be deemed too "Hindu" for some individuals.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 The funny thing with Sarabloh avatar is that IT DOES NOT EXIST IN ANY OTHER RELIGIOUS TRADITION BUT SIKHI. It'll allways make me laugh when people insult Sarabloh Guru Darbar buy saying that is full of "Hindu" stuff. RIDICULOUS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted November 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Surprised no one has mentioned Sarbloh Avtar in relation to the use of Sarbloh within Sikhi Well now that it has, let's hear some more on the Sarabloh Avtar...and on Asipan and Asidhuj... Sri Laxmani Jee Sahai!!! Having pleased Bhagvati and Bhagvant, the True Guru destroyed the evil-doers, Those demons, revilers of the Lord and his sants, who were creating obstacles on the path of Hari. He destroyed in dharmayuddha the demons who reviled Brahmans and cows. Purifying varna and ashrama, he churned the essence and gave it as a mantra to the Khalsa. According to the command of Akal Purakh the form of the best of munis was manifested: Keeping long hair from head to toe, the best of men took on the form both of bhagats and of heroes. They received from the beginning the gift of chakravarti status, their righteous rule (dharamarÃja) devouring the highest of mountains. They received unshakeable sovereignty [of the earth] up to the ocean, from the rising of the sun to the point where it sets, and of heaven. The pure Khalsa Panth arose by the Lord's command: Duality was effaced by these means and the unclean demons (asura malechhana) were destroyed. Sri Sarab Loh Granth, 3, pp. 495-96. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snigga Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 only modern day intellects argue over authenticty of certain shabads which for the past 300 years where always recognized by Guru Panth, because they are enriched with venomous hankaar, leading them to believe that if something does not make sense to them, that its ridiculus and not worth second thought, rather then humbly bowing before Guru Sahib and saying Dhaan Mahaaraaj how can I even begin to contemplate your greatness... dumb scholars...........tricks are for kids... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted November 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 only modern day intellects argue over authenticty of certain shabads which for the past 300 years where always recognized by Guru Panth, because they are enriched with venomous hankaar, leading them to believe that if something does not make sense to them, that its ridiculus and not worth second thought, rather then humbly bowing before Guru Sahib and saying Dhaan Mahaaraaj how can I even begin to contemplate your greatness... dumb scholars...........tricks are for kids... Snigga Sahib...not wishing to sound alarmed, but is this post directed to anyone on this thread or just an opinion you wished to express? Gur FateH! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ms514 Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 Sat Sri Akal: Nihal Kaur Ji, you can't be allergic to Sarbloh (pure iron). It's in the blood of every human (not a pun...the red stuff in blood IS iron!!!). Perhaps you have allergy to other metal in steel alloy? Try a pure iron Kara... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 snigga do u believe in the "41st" var of bhai gurdas? would disowning it make you "dumb", considering varan is pretty much dhur kee bani? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 Sat Sri Akal: Nihal Kaur Ji, you can't be allergic to Sarbloh (pure iron). It's in the blood of every human (not a pun...the red stuff in blood IS iron!!!). Perhaps you have allergy to other metal in steel alloy? Try a pure iron Kara... did you know that the layer of your skin and the layer of material that make your blood vesselsis not the same..... she could be allgeric... U never know, Maybe if she did enough Naam Simran, the magnetic fields or whatever it was in earlier posts will make her blood vessels burst and so much Sarbloh will come out that she might be cured of the rash. Note: sarcasm in above post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted November 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 Gur Fateh! As no one has touched on the Chandi/Kali aspects of Sarabloh, I’ll offer my two pennies worth and apologise in advance should this upset anyone’s sentiments –these notions do not coincide directly with my personal views, I present them here as information that I have come across... I welcome all feedback and stress from the outset that these are simply notions that I have come across, supported by some scholars and texts (both positively and negatively) and in no way are presented here to cause offence. GUR BAR AKAAAAAL!!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The tradition of respecting Sarbaloh does appear to be a legacy from Shakat/Tantric aspects that can be found increasingly since the 18th Century amongst the Sikhs, particularly the Nihang Dals. The devi/goddess/feminine attributes of God (depending upon your personal stance) have been worshiped by various names (Durga, Kali, Chandi, Bhavani, Bhagautee etc) one of which is Sarabloh, referring to a Kharag, Khanda or any weapon without a wooden handle or non-iron components i.e. "all iron". (Take a look at the pictures shasters using the links on this forum, under the pictures section, and one can see an assortment of such weapons in common use by the Nihang Singhs). Iron ore, Iron metal and weapons made from Iron in the Indian sub-continent have been and are worshipped as manifestations of Chandi/Bhagautee, this trend is in particular popularity with the Rajputs. This legacy has continued for Sikhs, albeit under different reasoning, as manifestations of Akal Purakh’s power through the use of terminology in the Dasam Granth (Sarabloh, MahaLoh, the Shaster Naam Mala etc) and in more common occurrence with the weapons adorning Dhumalas, Dastaars and Maharaj’s Darbar, aside from their other uses). Iron and iron weapons are termed ‘Asi’ with Bhagautee/Kali described as the appellation of the Kharag weilder (Asipan, Kharagkhet). Sarbaloh is hence considered as another name for Kali in classical Shakat scriptures. Prior to the Singh Sabha reforms, the majority of Sikhs in 18th century, particularly the Nihang dals, as per Bhai Daya Singh's Rehatnama, Bhai Rattan Singh Bhangoo’s Panth Parkash and Santokh Singh’s Suraj Parkash, strongly believed in the invocation of Bhagautee by Guru Gobind Singh during the Naina Devi incident and as such, iron weapons being manifestations of bhagautee, were worthy of worship as Shastar Guru. This is symbolically explained through the use of Chandi, where Chandi (the weapon) rides the Singh (Lion) and accordingly, it is the Weapon and hence Sarabloh, is the wielder of the Singh and not the other way around as well as the invocation of Bhagautee during the Ardas, Chandi Di Var (and other Chandi compositions in the Dasam Granth), Sarabloh Avtar etc etc. Similarly many exclusive aspects of Nihang practice can be seen to have Shakat/Tantric roots and undertones of which some have continued to prevail in subsequent panthic movements who have proximity to ‘Nihangta’, albeit these movements are not necessarily Nihang by lineage or indeed aware of the origins of the Sarablohi bibek in terms of the wider elements of Chandi Puja. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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