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Sri Guru Panth Parkash translation


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This is a translation of this book by Giani Gian singh ji.

On the banks of the Attock, in the heavenly tract, Pothohar*, there is a village called Choi.

In that village, in Sammat 1856, was born one Balak Singh, The Very Incarnation of God.

Arorhra by caste, an Unshakable Devotee, He was ever Absorbed in God, Discarding all worldly pleasures.

*Region between the two rivers Jhelum and Sind.

In name a Child, He was The Very Patron of Prophets, The master of Heavens and The Abjurer of All Things Gaudy.

The only Relation He Recognised was that with The Creator.

Being One with God, He was The Destroyer of Evil.

He Led a Life of Renunciation.

Like a Lamp Burning within a pot He did not display His Greatness.

He was Praised by all for His Love of God.

He was an Ascetic without blemish.

An Awakened soul, He was, to the Best possible extent ever in the company of Godly persons, Reciting Hymns, Singing Panegyrics and Delivering Discourses.

In 1885 Bikrami, His elder brother moved to another village, Hazro, and set up a shop.

Balak Singh followed, took Residence there and Earned His living by simple labour.

His Fame spread, bringing Immeasurable Blessing to Hazro.

The village prospered into another Ayodhya*.

Its adversity disappeared.

Exceedingly Fortunate were the village folk. Ever absorbed in the Love of God, they remained Awake in the company of Godly Persons.

They dedicated their lives to the service of Saintly Persons.

*Ayodhya, the Capital City where Bhagwan Ram took Avatar.

The Spiritual Message that Balak Singh delivered was of Immense Benefit to men and women.

It helped them swim across the vast 'Sea of Existence'.

And, The Creator Himself has revealed His Word and charged Him to Spread it for the Purification of human life.

:D Nevertheless, The Tenth Master Appeared in Person and Informed Him:

"Ram Singh is My Incarnation, Partaking of an Element of Mine.

I have, therefore, Entrusted Him, and none else, With My Authority."

The Master?s Message was Clear and Firm.

The Inevitable Occurred on Thursday Morning, The Fifth Moon of Magh, 1872 Bikrami.

Very well known is the village Bhaini in Ludhiana district.

On this village Ram Singh Descended like a God, Casting aside all the ills inhering in the 'Kal Jug'.

Charged with Spreading The Idea of Godhood, He, Exuding Effulgence, Came to the childless household.

His father Jassa, a carpenter by caste and mother Sada.

Even while a Child, His Mind was Replete with Divine Presence.

Dedicated to uplift of mankind, He, along with His playmates, was ever Absorbed in Him.

And, When Grown-up He went to Lahore, Entered service in the Army,which He Thought was a Noble Vocation.

He would Recite Gurbani , Sing Hymns, Feel Solitude and Share His Purse with the poor.

In 1898 Bikrami, He, in His platoon, went to Hazro, on official duty.

Saintly Persons held a great attraction for Ram Singh. Whatever Place He happened to Visit, He would Love to Call on Them.

Balak Singh was Held in High Reverence.

Like a cuckoo-fledgling brought up by a mother duck, Ram Singh Listened to and Joyfully Absorbed The Divine Eulogies.

The Good Deeds previously Accumulated, bestirred Themselves and helped Him Absorb all The Spiritual Hues.

Blessed by Fortune and Saturated with Love, He went all the way to Touch His Feet in Submission.

Balak Singh Recognized God?s Element in Him.

Satisfied that He was Deserving and Worthy to Receive.

He, of His own Volition, Offered Him Nam.

Nam, The Quintessence of The Four Vedas, Eradicates confusion, Instills non-involvement and Destroys painful failings.

Balak Singh Implanted in Him Waheguru, The Supreme Mantra that Helps Accomplish all The Missions.

None other is as Extensively Effective.

There were some who would say that He has received the

revealed word from a sayadani.

Such an assertion was found wholly apocryphal, this is I say on personal testimony.

It is Waheguru.

The Mantra that Annihilates the dangerous and the susceptive ways of the 'Kal Jug', Brushes aside illusion and the cycles of births.

Ram Singh was eagerly drawn to It.

He would Receive it Repeatedly and Attentively.

He Realised the utter futility of the world of affairs and Left it alone.

He Led a Life of Positive Conduct and was ever Absorbed in Meditation.

He was like The One Intoxicated, always in a State of Undisturbed Bliss.

Never downcast, He Exuded Joy and was Free from earthly desires.

His Senses under Control and The Mind Properly Disciplined, He would Look up, for Meditation, a Clean Place beside a river or a pond.

The Chant of The Nam was on His Lips, His Body Practised Austerity, and His Mind was Completely Submerged in The-Beloved.

He Spent nearly 20 years of Beatitude in Single-Minded Devotion, Austerity and Meditation.

The 'ridh-sidh', the treasures, and the supernatural powers, were Revealed to Him as no more than the maid-servants of Nam.

Such was The Impact of His Practice of Nam, that whatever He Uttered Proved True.

The Heavens Themselves Spoke to This Great Man Charging Him to Spread Nam.

The Giver of Enlightenment and The Wherewithal's of Life Spread the Faith of the Tenth Master among the people, and Made them realise that The Khalsa is Singularly God's Own.

Charged with This Spectacular Mission, Ram Singh Set About Delivering Discourses.

He Made people give up smoking and keep unshorn hair. Particularly Fortunate were those who Partook of the Nectar and Entered The Sikh Fold. His Fame Spread Apace. People in Multitude became His Disciples.

Manifold Grew The Khalsa.

:) HisDisciples, Soaked in The Bliss of Nam, gave up opium, hashish, poppy, liquor and various other intoxicants. They would not eat meat. They would not steal. They foreswore adultery and deception. They Practised Saintliness.

The 'Sat Jug' had returned.

Ram Singh Set up a hardware and drapery shop, with income barely sufficient to provide Him with Food and Clothing. He was visited by Throngs of Disciples.

Huge were The Gatherings at His Doors. Whatever Offerings were made, all went to The Free Kitchen.

Those who Received Nam from Him, immediately went into Eesctasy, forgetful of Their Turbans flying off their Heads.

They would Divulge This Secret of Their Soul to none other; because of this, many called It Kalam.*

*Kalam, muslim sermon. 'Nam' is not to be confused with the muslim kalam or revelation. 'Nam' is the Mantra Specifically Related to Sikh Doctrine.

Thus His Holy Fame Spread Far and Wide; those who came to weigh, Found Him full and became His Disciples.

He had a Huge Following of no less than 300,000 from Malwa*, Doaba**, Majha*** and Pothohar***.

Like Akbar, the emperor, He Appointed 22 Governors known as Subas and Blessed Them with 'Speech' as Effective as His Own.

Men and women would form themselves into choirs, play drums and melodiously Chant the Supreme Word of the Guru.

* Region comprising district of Ferozepur, Faridkot, Nabha,(Punjab) Jind and Sirsa (Haryana) Patiala, Ludhiana (Punjab) * Region falling between the rivers Sutlej and Beas.

** Region comprising districts falling between the rivers Ravi and Beas.

*** Region comprising districts falling between the rivers Jhelum and Sind (now in Pakistan).

They would Perform Havan* and continuously Recite The Guru Granth**, Beginning to End, in Large Congregations.

They would take a whole bath in the small hours and Engage in an Unceasing Chant of Waheguru.

Men and women, without exception, would be clad in a speck-less, Holy White.

They would keep a Woolen Rosary and Wear a Kachha (Shorts), a Kara (Steel Bangle) and a Karad (Small Sword) as Holy Symbols.

They would not accept food nor drink from, nor would they marry into a family, outside The Fold, the nearest kin being no exception

*Ceremonial fire kept burning by pouring on it ghee and certain perfumes for evoking spiritual advancement, prosperity, purification of mind, environment etc., and also for performing marriage ceremonies by circumambulating four times around it.

**Guru Granth: Common Name of Aad Granth Sahib.

They do not owe allegiance to the temples, the places of pilgrimage, the Puranas, the Sadhus or the Brahmins.

They attach no importance to giving away charities* outside the fold.

Charities and marital proposals are affectionately made and accepted within The Fold.

All of them fondly cherish the desire for political power.

They do not invite brahmins to perform marriage ceremonies or death rites.

They perform Anand Karaj** - a Ritual discovered by them conforming to The Tradition of The House of The Gurus.

They Regard Ram Singh Alone as Their Satguru, The Divine Incarnation and The Spiritual Guide.

His Word is Accepted, without demur, by All.

*The 'Charities' mentioned here are those given to the temples and not the poor or the needy.

This Way of Life caused immense unhappiness to the brahmins.

The Hindus and the muslims, in large numbers, mouthed denunciation.

Whenever They(The Sikhs) visited Gurdwaras, They would Recite Shabads, throwing off Their Turbans in Ecstasy. Such a sight caused resentment.

The pujaris, hurling abuse, would like to thrust upon them(The Kukas) their own notions, and not accept those of The Kukas.

The Kukas thus became the talk of the town.

They Grew Enormously in numbers and were Distinguished from the Hindus as well as the turks.

Whichever Place Ram Singh Visited, Thousands came into His Fold.

They Addressed Him with Deep Humility and made Handsome Offerings in cash.

Whenever, on The Occasion of a Festival, He Visited Gurdwaras at Damdama Sahib and Mukatsar, He was Accompanied by a Huge Gathering of The Kukas.

The Spectacle of Ascendancy and Grandeur Achieved by Ram Singh made the administrators and the clerics lose much of their peace.

He was Eescorted by the deputy commissioner and the city chief of police with His Force in toe.

They Offered due Respects and made proper arrangements for His Security.

The people around, in their wisdom, made all sorts of comment.

Ram Singh Wished to Offer Prayers Conducive to a Spirit of Unity.

He, by His Conduct, Wanted The Prestige of The Panth to Grow.

He Went to The Gurdwara to Offer His Holy Parshad*.

The clerics, in a body, confronted Him with a clear injunction:

You shall build banks around the holy tank in concrete as payment of a religious fine.

Your followers shall not go into ecstasy and their turbans must not fall off.

Ram Singh Said both these injunctions were beyond His Means to comply with.

He was only too Ready to Make an Offering within His Capacity.

Mahant Mangal Singh of Gurdwara Tamboo Sahib hit upon a plan to test the genuineness of His Offer.

He was only too aware that no Kuka would ever wear a blue* dress.

He brought a blue robe of honor for Ram Singh.

He respectfully Accepted the robe, yet, the clerics were not reconciled.

*Blue and black attires are refered to as 'Soormei Rung' and considered to be apparels of muslims and thus are not worn by Members of The Khalsa Panth.

There was a similar uproar at Anandpur in 1922-23 Bikrami.

He was Accorded a Warm Welcome by the government officials when He Visited Amritsar during The Diwali Festival in 1924 Bikrami.

He Camped outside Chativind Gate with nearly 20,000 Kukas in Company.

He Went to The Golden Temple with Abundant Offerings of Parshad, but again, the pujaris (clerics) acted malevolently.

Some of them demanded thousands of rupees as bribe, while others insisted on imposition of a 'religious fine' as big as four to five lakh of rupees.

There were some other conditions too:

No Kuka shall take off his Turban while in Ecstasy, nor shall he call himself Your Sikh. And, he shall wear a blue dress.

Replied Ram Singh:

"These conditions can be Enforced by none but The Guru Himself. It is beyond Me to Change the very psyche of the people. You have only to prove that I have Committed any one of the four deadly sins* and I would pay the religious fine without demur."

*Four deadly sins (1) Killing a brahmin. (2) Killing a cow. (3) Killing one's daughter or giving away one's daughter for money, (4) Accepting food from a corrupt or immoral person

A lengthy wrangle ensued. Realising that the situation could further aggravate, Ram Singh Said His Prayers in front of the Gurdwara and Distributed Parshad.

Reciting Hymns, all of Them Circumambulated The Gurdwara and Returned to Their Camps.

The pujaris had behaved in a similar fashion towards the nirmalas.

The meanly pujaris, acting like kanji* that splits milk, would oppose all attempts towards Unity of The Panth.

*Kanji: A beverage prepared from black carrot by mixing salt and mustard.

The pujaris persisted in their hostility towards Them.

Nevertheless, both The Kukas and the nirmalas, Blessed by The Guru, Flourished.

And now, listen, how The Kukas Sacrificed Their Lives in The Cause of Dharam(Religion) and Found Their Place among The-Martyrs-of-Faith(Shaheed).

In between the second and the third decades of the (19th Century)

Bikrami Sammat, cows came to be slaughtered in larger numbers and at various places.

The Hindus felt miserable and helpless.

They were not powerful enough to seek remedy with the Government.

And, then The Courageous Kukas were Roused to Action.

They Put a number of slaughterhouse butchers to Sword.

Prominent Hindus at Amritsar and various other places were arrested and persecuted by the english government.

When they were about to be executed, The Kukas, on Their Own, Came Forward, led evidence to prove that They and none else, had dealt the deadly blow.

Happily, They went to the gallows and, from thereon, to the land of God Himself.

After that, there was yet another act of rare Heroism at Malerkotla.

There were about 60 Kukas who, having resolved to court certain death, dispatched the butchers and protected the cows.

They were engaged by the armed forces of the muslim state of Malerkotla, but The Sikhs Repulsed them.

The Patiala troops practised subterfuge, took false oath, persuaded them to their point of view and finally got them arrested.

Absorbed in The Love of Shabad, They gladly Offered Themselves to be blown off by the cannon.

They were, according to Them, Exceedingly Fortunate to Die for Their Faith.

The kings and the chiefs, the courtiers and the english officers were all awe-struck by This Miracle of a Deed.

The english, after deep deliberation, deported Ram Singh, then Found utterly Free from blame, to Rangoon.

The various Subas were scattered in different directions and the ascendancy of the Panth was sought to be curbed.

In the absence of Ram Singh, his brother, Budh Singh*, is now regarded as the Master and Leader of The Kukas.

They worship Bhavani, Recite Bani and Chant Waheguru over and over again.

They are Distinguished by their White Dress, White Woolen Rosary, Straight Turban and Flowing Beard.

They Perform Havan, Recite Hymns from The Guru Granth.

They are The True followers of Guru Gobind Singh, and cannot be diverted from Their Resolve to Establish a Government of Their own.

Such are The Impenetrable Kukas known for Their worshipful ways.

Gian Singh has narrated as he has witnessed them.

Giani Gian Singh in his Panth Parkash, gives a fairly detailed account of the continuous executions of the Sikh warriors who were taken prisoners along with their leader, Banda Singh Bahadur.

He says:

"And, then, every day they were brought to Chandni Chowk.

Twenty-five of them would gladly Offer Themselves to be killed. Everyone of Them would Desire to be Killed earlier than the others. They, the 'Fortunate' ones, Loved to be Martyred.

They Recited aloud the Word of The Guru over and over again and with Gusto.

They gave away their Lives Happily and Generously.

They Said: We are leaving for Baikunth, the Heavenly Abode."

And then, he departs from the narrative and tells us that he has learnt it from the writings of Khafi Khan, Ram Jas of Jaipur and Hari Charan of Meerut. Suddenly, he turns to similar executions of the Kukas in his own time. True to The Great Sikh Tradition, They had Happily laid down Their Lives Espousing a Noble Cause. They, too, had Embraced Death Reciting The Word of the Guru. Each one of Them was in a great hurry to be Present in The Heavenly Gur-Darbar.

Giani Ji says :

"The account of those Sikhs (The Bandais) has been set out in a number of books. But, now, I would speak to you, in truthful details of what I saw with my own eyes. During Nineteen Twenty-eight Bikarmi I came into contact with The Kukas. The butchers who had slaughtered cows were themselves slain by these Lion-Hearted Men of The Guru. Nearly sixty of them, Pure Souls, were arrested and were brought to Malerkotla in custody. The english(government) issued orders that they be blown off by cannon.

They were delighted to hear of this order they were indeed overwhelmed with joy. Their exuberance shot into Their miens as They Recited Aloud The Word of The Guru.

As moths rushing towards a lamp, unrestrained they made for the cannon. Their spirits in high transport, they hurried forward without a thought for Their Dear Lives.

This I saw with my own eyes, People had gathered in a large number. They saw and were filled with wonder. Wedded to the Supreme Life-Style of The Sikhs, They were not afraid of Embracing Death by Arms. They could meet the enemy on The Battle-Field and be restrained from neither laying down nor taking life."

:wink:

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Kabbadi Singh ji... excellent post...

Please veer ji post as much as information from "Siri Guru Panth Parkash" "Siri Suraj Prakash Granth" and "Sri Mahon Kosh" because these are only three granths written by great vidvaans that you can get true image of khalsa.

We as sikhawareness team honored to have you here. One of dreams sikhawareness had was to get the translations from these above mentioned granth online bits by bits for the sangat. It looks like its coming true.

Please feel free to pm me if you need any fianicial support regarding this Mahan Seeva!!!!!

May vahiguroo always keep your chardi-kalah.

Gurbar AKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL :D :D :D

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Guest Javanmard

Giani Gian SIngh was a Nirmala, in fact one of the most well known Nirmalas. He was NOT a Kuka or Namdhari even though he appreciated their spirit!

As for the term Sanatan Sikhs this term can only be correctly applied to the members of the Amritsar Singh Sabha who called themselves like that.

One may suitably call the members of the four sampradayas and those who follow original Sikhi "puratan" keeping in mind that this term is used to contrast them with the Neo-Sikhs. Nevertheless one should keep in mind the fact that when talking about puratan SIkhi we are actually dealing with the most unadulterated form of Sikhi.

In the passage described by Giani Gian Singh, there is strong criticism of the corrupted care takers of certain (not all) Sikh shrines who passed on their position to their sons thus creating a corrupted line of abusive managers.

It has to be noted that the overwhelming majority of the members of the four sampradayas or orders were against those corrupted elements.

Giani Gian Singh has a somehow phenomenological approach to the Namdharis. The Namdharis of Giani Gian Singh's times were different from today's Namdharis!

It is very clear that Giani Gian Singh considered allegiance to Guru Granth Sahib as a necessary criterion to be a Sikh as shown in his last lines of his Panth Prakash where he affirms the importance of Guru Granth Sahib in its three forms: Adi, Dasam and (Sarab) Loh!

There is no doubt about the fact that Giani Gian SIngh would have dissaproved of today's Namdharis exagerated reverence to their master Baba Jagjit Singh.

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He was NOT a Kuka or Namdhari even though he appreciated their spirit!

The Namdharis of Giani Gian Singh's times were different from today's Namdharis!

There is no doubt about the fact that Giani Gian SIngh would have dissaproved of today's Namdharis exagerated reverence to their master Baba Jagjit Singh.

Certainly no one can argue with someone with that kind of logic and 'assumability'.

Here's the 'Namdhari' perspective of Panth Rattan Giani Gian Singhji:

http://namdhari.faithweb.com/giansingh.htm Take it or leave it.

God Bless.

Fateh Singh

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Guest Javanmard

1. The Namdharis are not listed in Giani Gian SIngh's works as a puratan sampradaya which are four (Udasi, Nirmala, Nihang, Sevapanthi). He certainly respects them and Baba Ram Singh he clearly paid allegiance to Guru Granth Sahib in its three forms (Adi, Dasam, Sarabloh) which is the puratan tradition that is not respected by the Neo-SIkhs.

2. Baba Ram Singh being still alive in 'occultation' his sucessors CANNOT be considered to be Satgurus on equal terms with him if one were to adopt the belief that Baba Ram Singh is satguru.

3. Modern Namdharis by calling Baba Jagjit Singh Satguru and considering him as such make a mistake as according to their original beliefs the succesors of Baba Ram Singh are actually 'Jama ka Jot' and only bear the title 'Satguru' symbolically as representatives of Baba Ram Singh.

4. I have no doubt that original Namdhari beliefs are still kept alive by Baba Jagjit Singh who as far as I know does NOT put himself at the level of say Guru Gobind Singh. The problem, and that is the case with so many movements, are the disciples who developp an exagerated attachment to their leader. I can well understand why this happens as the reason actually lies in the conflict between the Namdharis and the SGPC Sikhs. As such this conflict risks to create a new Namdhari faith whcih would tend to be the exact opposite of the SGPC Sikhi. This tendency should be resisted at all costs.

5. Namdharis have a curious tendency to retrospectively changing the meaning of certain gurbani such as Uggardanti and its reference to blue bana which the Namdharis falsely interpret as representing the ennemies of the Khalsa.

The fact that they wear white is not a problem for me as long they do not play with exegesis to justify beliefs that are not puratan.

humbly

shaka nyorai

ps. Namdhari havans are great!!!

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Shaka Nyora!

I'd humbly and politely ask you not to make such statements that you have no knowledge about.

You dare to say 'misinterpret' Gurbani? Who gave YOU the authority to say such things? Are you a 'guru' of your so called 'panth'?

We respect our Satgurus as the same, and as clearly written by Satguru Ram Singh Ji from exile as well: 'To be no different than Guru Ram Singh HIMSELF'. It is the Hukam of Satguru Ram Singh, and so we follow it. Nobody asked you for your 2 cents.

If you have a problem with that, then it's you who should re-evaluate your views. Don't tell ME how much to respect my Satguru and why or why not.

You have your own Guru, or so I'd suppose, if I say dumb things like you have about your religion and teach you how to follow your own religion, how would you feel? I wouldn't dare to teach you how to respect your Guru, how dare you?

If you have a problem, PM me. We'll sort it out! Don't go around showing off your 'smartness' over things you don't have the slightest idea about.

Fateh Singh

Mod's Note: We do beleive that your showing un-wanted hostility towards Shaka Nyora!. Please sort this usual "Tu Tu Mein Mein" over the pm. Shaka Nyora post was straightforward. It shouldn't be taken as a offense or an insult rather than criticism. If you can't debate than its better not to post anything rather than just gettin frustrated.

I wonder if the 'mod' would say the same if what Shaka Nyora wrote was about questioning the authority of the Aad Sri Guru Granth Sahib as the 'mod's Guru or if he had questioned the amount of 'respect' the 'mod' has for his Guru instead.

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Guest Javanmard

Dear Fateh Singh

1. Regarding the issue of the status of Baba Ram Singh may I just add that my statements were based on first hand information that I had received from people in Bheni Sahib itself. As such I am just pointing towards the fact that there are different opinions within the Namdhari movement about the status of Baba Ram SIngh's successors, who by the why I consider to be sants and great men! May I also add that Namdhari publications themselves give the title "Jama ka Jot" to Baba Ram Singh's successors.

2. Regarding my issue of "Namdhari misinterpretation" of certain sections of gurbani such as Uggardanti I have based my criticism on my philological, critical and exegetical training. My aim is not to insult Namdharis but pint out the fact that regarding the issue of "nila besa" in Uggardanti the Namdharis are wrong for purely grammatical and exegetical reasons which have NOTHING to do with my own beliefs.

3. I am no one to teach you how to live Sikhi. Sikhi is your own journey with Maharaj from Maharaj back to Maharaj! I have as such no animosity against the Namdhari masters. I admire their endeavour to conserve certain aspects of puratan maryada such as:

kirtan in rags, study of classical Indian languages, havan, puratan Nitnem, emphacis on ishnan, meditation, shudh paath and puratan marriage ceremony.

Needless to point out the Namdharis' contribution to the Independence struggle!!!

The only points of difference are:

1.Status of Baba Ram Sing and his succesors

2. Status of Guru Granth Sahib

3. Minor issues of rahit such as the white vs. blue issues; the jhatka issues and the loss of martial practise.

My intention was in no way to insult the Namdhari movement. I do feel though that I have a right to present my arguments provided they are properly argued and based in facts.

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Guest Javanmard

Dear Narsingha:

regarding the issue of "puratan" and "sanatan", I have as such no real problem with both terms who I find to be both noble and beautiful.

1. There is no doubt that by "puratan" and "sanatan" we qualify the original form of Sikhi to us by our pure 10 Gurus.

2. The historical use of the term "sanatan Sikhi" as such can be located in the writings of the Amritsar Singh Sabha which despite its noble endeavour to conserve Sikh traditions did have some minute differences with the puratan sampradayas.

3. The only issue I have with the use of the word "sanatan Sikhi" is the way it is understood by others. I rather use puratan as it is more neutral.

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Dear Shaka Nyoral,

Since you did not honor my request for a private conversation, I'd dispell some 'problems' you identified:

1.Status of Baba Ram Sing and his succesors

The Satguru had before and also during exile numerous times commanded HIS Sikhs to revere Guru Hari Singh as no different than HIMSELF after HIS exile. Talking to a few Namdharis (if you actually did talk to any) is not the answer from Namdhari Darbar and does not neccesarily reflect the true Namdhari Maryada. A very large number of mainstream Sikhs actually claim and wholeheartedly believe that 'Agya Bhei Akal Ki..' is written in the Aad Sri Guru Granth Sahib, should I believe that as well just because some people I met said so? Or should I do the right thing and actually read books published by the SGPC to find out their real standing point on such issues? You'd know better.

2. Status of Guru Granth Sahib

Which Guru Granth Sahib are you talking about? There are 3 Guru Granth Sahibs and they are all revered equally as Gurbani in the same fashion as the first Parkash of Aad Sri Guru Granth Sahib by Sri Guru Arjan Devji 400 years ago.

3. Minor issues of rahit such as the white vs. blue issues; the jhatka issues and the loss of martial practise.

If you've actually read Namdhari publications or visited Gurdwara Sri Bhaini Sahib as you claimed, you'd have seen several pictures of Nihang Suba Baba Kahn Singh and Suba Baba Jawahar Singh in the court of Guru Ram Singh. Blue is not forbidden for Namdhari-Nihangs, but then you have to BE a Nihang (Bihangam/Shaheedi Singh) which is a different lifestyle from an ordinary Namdhari Khalsa (Sant Khalsa).

As for the 'loss' of martial art practise, visit the Namdhari Akhara in Amritsar sometimes.

I've provided the information as I know them, truthfully. Take it or leave it. Should you require more information, please do help yourself and read the many books and articles published by the Namdhari Darbar or have a conversation with a Namdhari Suba/Giani.

God Bless.

Fateh Singh

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Guest Javanmard

Gurfateh

Dear Fateh Singh,

thank you for keeping this discussion highly motivating and exciting. It is a pleasure debating with you and I hope this continues.

1. Regarding the status of Baba Hari Singh (also known as Budh Singh). There is no doubt about the fact that Baba Ram SIngh asked his successors to ask him to consider his brother in the same way as they considered him, yet this does NOT equal to say that he was Satguru. In fact Giani Gian Singh clearly say in his Panth Prakash (p 1047).

Ram Singh Ju ki thaur Budh Singh Bhai tanhi

Ab hai mahant kant kukion ka janie //

The word used is mahant NOT satguru.

2. Regarding the status of Guru Granth Sahib

According to puratan tradition Guru Granth is tri-unity made of the Adi Guru Granth Sahib, Dasam Guru Granth Sahib and Sarabloh Guru Granth Sahib. The three are equally gurbani and have equal status as Guru Granth Sahib. The Namdharis do honour them but do NOT maintain the same type of importance in their darbar sahib.

If clarifications are needed please go ahead Fateh Singh, we're all here to learn!

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Narsingha, here's a picture for better understanding:

http://namdhari-world.com/new%20nw/images/sgrs-dewaan.JPG

Shaka Nyoral. You're a learnt person, I do not need to remind you that by the time Baba Budh Singh Ji was renamed Guru Hari Singh Ji by Guru Ram Singh from exile, Giani Gian Singh had lost all publishing rights and could not add on to the Panth Parkash any more, let alone change what the khalsa tract society had added/taken out without his consent. As for the reverence of Granth Sahibs, it's your own opinion. For us unneccesary Parkash of the Aswara Sahib is disrespectful. Can't make everyone happy can we?

Thanks,

Fateh Singh

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Giani Gian Singh had lost all publishing rights and could not add on to the Panth Parkash any more, let alone change what the khalsa tract society had added/taken out without his consent.

Sorry for being ignorant, but I don't understand. Can anyone give a quick bit of history here please.

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  • 3 years later...

Sorry I don't have answer to that question. Perhaps Freed can help about pictures. He's the sherlockholmes of all pictorial medias! :D

Doing parkash for 'mathateking' purpose only is 'uneccessary' and arguably 'disrespectful' (by Namdhari standards) as is done in many homes. Often the Aswara Sahib is left unattended until the householders return from work. Then again, since that is how their culture is and is what they are taught to do out of 'respect', they cannot be judged by the same standards as Namdharis. The message I wanted to relay to shaka was that shaka nyorai or people from his camp should not be judgemental of how much people from different backgrounds should 'respect' religious articles. It is shear stupidity that only leads to fanaticism.

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