The Khalsa Fauj Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 This thread is made for those who believe in Dasam Granth only. Here, you guys must decide on who poets: Shyam, Raam and Kaal are in Dasam Granth. This is very critical to Dasam Granth. Anti-DG people must refrain from posting in this thread. So who are poets: Shyam, Raam and Kaal? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Guru Gobind Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Guru Gobind Singh yup 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Guru Gobind SIngh Ji are using different Pseudonyms while writting their literary works. Just like the Bhatts in the Missionary teekas and Sahib Singh Teekas such as Bhatt Jalap writes under the names of Jal, Tal and Jalap! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 What makes people draw this conclusion? Why do you think it is Dasmesh Pita? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 What makes you draw the conclusion that it isn't? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I haven't heard that Guru Ji called himself by these pen names? What do other people know about this that I don't? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 What names did Guru Gobind Singh Ji use when they penned their literature? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsingh96 Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 is there any part of the sections where Shyaam, Raam, Kaal are used that we also see the words Gobind Shah, or Daas Gobind ? That would surely be concrete evidence for the anti-dasam parties 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 What names did Guru Gobind Singh Ji use when they penned their literature? I'm not sure. But judging by more accepted compositions i.e. Akal Ustat, Jaap Sahib, maybe they did not use a pen name at all? PS - Is it even a remote possibility that some of the compositions in Dasam Granth was by some of the court poets in Guru Gobind Singh's darbar? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I do think Bhai Mani Singh Ji would have been able to decipher and distinguish any differences to seperate the works of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and the court poets. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsingh96 Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 whats interesting to note is, i may be wrong... but im preety sure when i was reading through sarbloh granth i did see the names, Shyaam aswell as the Das Gobind , Gobind Shah etc let me look thru it again and if i find it will post it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 PS - Is it even a remote possibility that some of the compositions in Dasam Granth was by some of the court poets in Guru Gobind Singh's darbar? The court poets of Guru Gobind Singh Ji praise Guru Gobind Singh Ji in their writings, for example in their mangalcharan and at the end of the saroop the praise Satguru Gobind Singh Ji - something which is not found in any of the banis of dasam or sarbloh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 malwe da sher: Nor is Guru Gobind Singh mentioned in the mangalcharan of chandi di vaar. If it was the composition of one of the court poets you would imagine all the 10 Gurus to be mentioned there.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I do think Bhai Mani Singh Ji would have been able to decipher and distinguish any differences to seperate the works of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and the court poets. I don't know, a lot of the Dasam Granth seems to be reworkings of pre-existing mythology/folk stories. For all we know the collection could be literature from the time of Guru Gobind Singh including compositions by him as well as others he commissioned? For instance the Chandi sections are apparently reworkings of Markandeya purana. Can anyone also explain why the Chadhi stories are provided in both a Panjabi version as well as Braj ones please? Could this not indicate a desire to make such literature accesible to the masses? Hikayats HIKAYAT is the title given to the eleven tales, in Persian verse but in GURMUKHI letters, in the Dasam GRANTH, immediately after the Zafamamah. The title `Hikayat` does not occur in the actual text, but most of the tales have a verse, coming after two or three invocational lines in the beginning, which contains the phrase ` hikdyat shumdem` (we have heard the story of...). Hikdyat, being the plural of Hikdyat (story, tale), is adopted as the title for these tales. Each tale is meant to emphasize a moral lesson. The subject matter of the tales is in keeping with the literary taste and style of medieval India and ranges from the romantic and chivalrous to the fantastic and the macabre. Six of these eleven tales are Hindi tales retold in Persian. Hikayat 4 is Chritra 52 of the Chritropdkhydn, where an intrepid ran? defeats the obdurate Raja Subhat SINGH in battle in order to marry him. Hikayat 5 is the Persian version of Chritra 267. Some other stories from Chritropdkhydn have likewise found their way into these hikdyat. All the verses as well as hikdyatsare numbered, but hikdyat one is not traceable. The first talc which comes after the Zafarndmah is numbered two. Some scholars have suggested that Zafamamah proper should be treated as hikdyat number one while others give number one to the first four verses occurring at the beginning of hikdyat two. These verses arc in praise of God and are mainly in Sanskritised Braj. http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Hikayats 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I don't know, a lot of the Dasam Granth seems to be reworkings of pre-existing mythology/folk stories. For all we know the collection could be literature from the time of Guru Gobind Singh including compositions by him as well as others he commissioned? For instance the Chandi sections are apparently reworkings of Markandeya purana. Can anyone also explain why the Chadhi stories are provided in both a Panjabi version as well as Braj ones please? Could this not indicate a desire to make such literature accesible to the masses? Hikayats HIKAYAT is the title given to the eleven tales, in Persian verse but in GURMUKHI letters, in the Dasam GRANTH, immediately after the Zafamamah. The title `Hikayat` does not occur in the actual text, but most of the tales have a verse, coming after two or three invocational lines in the beginning, which contains the phrase ` hikdyat shumdem` (we have heard the story of...). Hikdyat, being the plural of Hikdyat (story, tale), is adopted as the title for these tales. Each tale is meant to emphasize a moral lesson. The subject matter of the tales is in keeping with the literary taste and style of medieval India and ranges from the romantic and chivalrous to the fantastic and the macabre. Six of these eleven tales are Hindi tales retold in Persian. Hikayat 4 is Chritra 52 of the Chritropdkhydn, where an intrepid ran? defeats the obdurate Raja Subhat SINGH in battle in order to marry him. Hikayat 5 is the Persian version of Chritra 267. Some other stories from Chritropdkhydn have likewise found their way into these hikdyat. All the verses as well as hikdyatsare numbered, but hikdyat one is not traceable. The first talc which comes after the Zafarndmah is numbered two. Some scholars have suggested that Zafamamah proper should be treated as hikdyat number one while others give number one to the first four verses occurring at the beginning of hikdyat two. These verses arc in praise of God and are mainly in Sanskritised Braj. http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Hikayats Stick to the topic of pen names of guru sahib. You can start another thread for other compositions of dasam granth. Anti dasam granth people need to prove if belief system of poets Ram and shyam was different than sikh thought. If their belief is in line with sikh thought then these are pen names of Guru sahib. If in doubt read invocations where these names come. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 does'nt Mardana use Nanak as his pen name? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Anti dasam granth people need to prove if belief system of poets Ram and shyam was different than sikh thought. If their belief is in line with sikh thought then these are pen names of Guru sahib. If in doubt read invocations where these names come. I'm not anti, I'm not pro. But your arguments are weak. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaheguruseekr Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 People love to second guess our 10th Guru and pretend to play Him. Is it out of sheer ignorance or total arrogance? Tejwant Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only five Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 People love to second guess our 10th Guru and pretend to play Him. Is it out of sheer ignorance or total arrogance? Tejwant Singh Just a note; Tejwant were you not discussing on SPN that Dasam Granth is not the 10th Guru's Bani with singh2. In which you will be second guessing Guru Sahib and pretending to play him. Here's the link to the thread: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-s...sion-redux.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 People love to second guess our 10th Guru and pretend to play Him. Is it out of sheer ignorance or total arrogance? Tejwant Singh You know nothing about dasam granth yet you have the heart to give your biased opinion. Do you know where these names appear? Can you show us where name kaal appear? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaheguruseekr Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Just a note; Tejwant were you not discussing on SPN that Dasam Granth is not the 10th Guru's Bani with singh2. In which you will be second guessing Guru Sahib and pretending to play him. Here's the link to the thread: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-s...sion-redux.html Only five, what name did Guru Gobind SIngh give you?:-) Guru Fateh. As I said before that your English skills are very weak. I said nothing like that. I only questioned it. Nowbe a true Sikh and post the post here.:-) Tejwant Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 Who is Ram and Shyam of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee? Please listen below to Gyani Harbhajan Singh jee Dhudikey: https://kam1825.podbean.com/e/why-guru-gobind-singh-ji-used-the-names-of-shyam-and-ram/ Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 I've heard this explanation before about Mata Gujri using those names. Is there any 18th or 19th sources to confirm that this was the case? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) I always assumed that those pen names were used to signify the concept of Yug Avatar. Kaal being one of Vishnu's names,Shyam is the name of Krishna, and Ram obviosly Ram Chandar. Gobind being the avatar for this age as per bhai Gurdass. So it could be a way of poetically signifiying that the author is the yug avatar of this age. The names Shyam and raam also occour in the Sarbloh Granth. Edited June 26, 2017 by amardeep 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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