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11 hours ago, GurpreetKaur said:

Dal singh ji, with all respect you over reacted calling me dirty mind girl when I was just having a conversation with bhagat ji. Maybe your opinion came from what other dude was saying, it's fun to join others when they are putting woman down by pointing at her character. But what more fun is to realize that any person who threatens other person is never the victim one. I have always given you the respect you deserve and don't want respect in return but at least don't label me with things, that I have to think three times before I post next time. And only those People know what is admin cut who are on forums, that's the first forum I joined so yes I was ver oblivious about that word .

You're boring me now.

 

It's much ado about nothing. 

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16 hours ago, Kam1825 said:

lol i think putting the quote about burgers hit a nerve, I am actually a veggie frieak and on the verge of going vegan. Also the clip is one that I put up on youtube.

Why vegan bro? Any specific reason?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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I am guessing the idea of causing any harm to animals is the reason...

Milk products causes death of cows anyway, regardless of whether you are eating them or not. And its the killing which is wrong. But its impossible to produce milk without killing the baby cows, there would be far too many to keep since the mother cow can only produce milk for a certain amount of time and when we are talking about mass production of milk... so dairy causes as much death as the meat industry (in fact many of the babies end up as veal anyway).  Vegan just means avoiding ALL animal products out of concern for the animals.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Kam1825 said:

CdnSikhGirl hit it on the head for why I am becoming a Vegan, plus I like making my own nut milks.!!

Bro, a vegan diet also involves plenty of cruelty to animals.

The below is from another topic.

Quote 

1 scientist in north america did calculation and said that if people of north america shift to beef and dairy products instead of grains then it will result in 80 milion less lost lives of animals as so many rats, rabbits pheasants a birds are killed for harvesting , so no food comes to human plate without killing

Unquote (Kdsingh80 jee)

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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I just watched the original video, good one. Yup, you should be dharam yudha and able to kill your own meat and eat it. However, i wish gyani goes little bit of depth behind nihangs symbolism behind doing chandi di var patt upon doing jhatka and whole metaphysics behind shakti and jhatka aspect. 

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59 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Bro, a vegan diet also involves plenty of cruelty to animals.

The below is from another topic.

Quote 

1 scientist in north america did calculation and said that if people of north america shift to beef and dairy products instead of grains then it will result in 80 milion less lost lives of animals as so many rats, rabbits pheasants a birds are killed for harvesting , so no food comes to human plate without killing

Unquote (Kdsingh80 jee)

 

Bhul chuk maaf

This is not true if care is taken in harvesting.  Instead of huge factory farming practices with huge mechanized harvesters, smaller operations can ensure oversight of the crops better and harvest without killing.  Of course accidental killing will always happen and is unavoidable... animals will always try to encroach where there is food growing. However, there is a HUGE difference between accidentally killing something and purposely killing it. It's called INTENT. And INTENT is what Waheguru is concerned with. 

Some examples, organic farming vs one where heavy pesticide used etc. results in many less lives of bees lost due to neonicotinoids.
Good fencing to keep out larger rodents and rabbits etc.
Scarecrows to keep birds away from crops
Now there is something called ultrasonic fencing where high frequency sound is used. It's harmless to wildlife, and we can't hear it but the HF sound is unpleasant so they stay away.  It works on birds, rodents, even deer etc.

 

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3 hours ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

This is not true if care is taken in harvesting.

Here you're again forgetting the reality. Paapiman is right that all foods (veg or non-veg) means you're killing something, even a grain of wheat does have a germ........the air we breathe also contains lot of microorganism which we kill after we breathe. So, that the way this damn universe works. It is just a matter of choosing which involves least amount of karmic burden.

Otherwise, this universe's karmic cycle (matrix) is so vast, so complex, so strong that without the Kirpa/Grace it's impossible to break. e.g Our body does have millions of different kind of micro-organisms which survive only till we're alive and they are dead with our death. So, we've to give lekha/hesab-ketab (consequences for our deeds) because we forced the microorganism to die as we left our body (even though we've no control over our death). This is the bhav sagar/Matrix which we have to cross. In order to survive, we have to do karma.

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2 hours ago, das said:

Here you're again forgetting the reality. Paapiman is right that all foods (veg or non-veg) means you're killing something, even a grain of wheat does have a germ........the air we breathe also contains lot of microorganism which we kill after we breathe. So, that the way this damn universe works. It is just a matter of choosing which involves least amount of karmic burden.

Otherwise, this universe's karmic cycle (matrix) is so vast, so complex, so strong that without the Kirpa/Grace it's impossible to break. e.g Our body does have millions of different kind of micro-organisms which survive only till we're alive and they are dead with our death. So, we've to give lekha/hesab-ketab (consequences for our deeds) because we forced the microorganism to die as we left our body (even though we've no control over our death). This is the bhav sagar/Matrix which we have to cross. In order to survive, we have to do karma.

But you are speaking the above almost as an excuse to purposely kill animals when it is not required.  You can look for excuses to justify it all you want.  My personal choice is to go the way of least death (needless deaths anyway) which is working towards vegan.

And ask Paapiman (since we have have each other blocked and he cant see this) that if he is so keen on dairy industry even though the baby cows are killed in order to have milk production, then why is he so against eating that same meat which comes from those baby cows, when at least USING the meat for something means the baby cow didn't die for nothing. At least some humans would have some sustenance from the meat created by his production of his precious glass of milk.  But we all know he is dead set against meat eating... so its better to let the meat rot and the baby cow's death is needless and meant nothing??

That is what is called hypocrisy and is openly condemned in Gurbani.

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Quote

Take the example of what happens when you grow grains or pulses. In all the towns around Australia that are wheat producing towns or centres, on average about every five years they have a mouse plague. And these mice get killed in the millions and millions, mass slaughtered in horrible ways that cause their deaths to be really unpleasant. And that is going into producing grains. Some of those grains are fed to cattle, but they are also the core of the diets for a lot of people who don't want to eat any meat.

Unquote[1]

[1] - http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/mice-the-biggest-losers-w-vegetarianism/4660498

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

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I am not even debating veg vs non veg. It's the hypocrisy I am debating!! LOL

If you eat meat eat meat.... as long as its not Halal etc.  

If you are veg eat veg...

What I am against is on the one hand saying everyone MUST eat veg, but then condoning dairy industry. It's hypocrisy!  If you are going to drink milk or use dairy products, then don't get all upset if the meat from the baby cows is used in a constructive way to feed people. As that is better than letting it rot because you think dairy is ok but meat is not.  

In short, it's the HYPOCRISY I am against. Not either end of the veg / meat debate!   

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I myself have killed thousands and thousands of life forms through my gardening.

 

You evil mass murdering b@stard! 

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1 hour ago, chatanga1 said:

Correct!

What you're saying is true though. I like gardening myself. It simply can't be done without killing loads of creatures. I mean, if I left the white cabbage moth larvae to it, they'd eat my broccoli plants in no time at all! Somebody habh to die! 

Plus how many dead (decomposed) organisms make up the soil itself! 

Then at the end of it all, we pull out the plant (killing it) to eat it too. lol

 

That's why Baba Nanak was on point when he said that fools argue over eating meat. 

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1 hour ago, amardeep said:

I was removing several kilos of moss in the garden today and did notice i killed loads of worms unknowingly. Gardenry sure is a bloody business!

That's what some fudhoo vege extremists need to get into their heads. There would have been a lot of creatures killed in order to get your vegetables on your plate. 

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14 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

That's what some vege extremists need to get into their heads. There would have been a lot of creatures killed in order to get your vegetables on your plate. 

The issue of veg vs meat is moot point. Even Gurbani says: "who is to say what is a green vegetables and what is meat?" 

What is spoken against is the hypocrisy.

If you eat meat then fine. It's NOT against Sikhi! (Only meat that has been ritualistically killed is against Sikhi. And that has nothing to do with the meat, it's the idea of sacrificing and ritual.) 

If you eat veg, then fine be vegetarian.  I am vegetarian, but I eat eggs and dairy. 

However I won't tell someone they can't eat meat.  My choice to be veg is that I can't *personally* eat something that was killed. Hopefully anything that was alive won't be on my plate with my vegetables, however I know that there are always bug parts in cans of vegs etc. and I accept that.  

Farming can take measures to limit unnecessary death like those acoustic fencing (wireless ultrasonic sound).  They repel almost all vermin.  Still yes, some may be accidentally killed. The thing is intent. Which is worse, killing a worm from your garden by accident, or purposely slitting throat of a baby cow so the milk meant for it can be used? And I am not saying don't drink milk... I'm saying at least acknowledge that killing the baby cow has some purpose by advocating the meat be used in a good way instead of wasted.  We have tons of hungry people in the world. 

What IS wrong in Sikhi is the HYPOCRISY! 

 

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