intrigued

To my knowledge Bhai Jaita was low caste so I would think that his writings are less controversial than those of higher castes.

I dont know wether to call the look on Sardar Ji's face Ak Anand or Santali Sukh. If there was a photo definition of either of those terms it would look like this ...
 

I would respect the picture but I would not use it to aid me in my Simran. I have Gurbani and naam for that ji
 
Bhul chuk maaf

Interesting!

Interesting!

Interesting!

Panj hathiars are. Panj shasters is a phrase used to describe the 5 weapons dasmesh pita kept upon themselves daily (their set included a chakar that wasn't in the panj hathiars, dasmesh pita didn't adorn a spear). Sri Gursobha mentions them as well, and some of the extant hukamnamas from Banda Singh Bahadhur. Basically a lot of contemporary sources mention them. 
From Nabha's Mahan Kosh: 

 

Akaali Baba Maan Singh Ji, Jathedar of Guru Nanak Dal is one of the few gursikhs today who has supported worldwide parchaar of Sikhi. His love for keertan and amount of bani he has memorized is unimaginable. Plus he strictly follows hukam of Guru Angad Dev Ji of having a fit and healthy lifestyle.




 

 

 


 

 

 

 
Vaah Vaah!
Trimandeep Singh
EazME7hUwAIA-VT.jpg:large

Amen bro. 

I have no problem with Jhatka. But, this story that guru sahib took those to be-Panj pyaare in a tent and then killed goats and showed the sangat his sword with blood is kinda weird.
First of all, it is evident from history that whenever Guru Sahib takes a test, the person is successful only when he actually does it. Eg: when Guru Nanak Dev Ji tested his gursikhs (Baba Budhaa Ji, Bhai Bhagirathi Ji, Bhai Lehna Ji), when he asked them to eat the corpse, it was only Bhai Lehna who came forward. But for Guru sahib, it didn't mean that Bhai Lehna passed the test. Bhai Lehna passed the test only when he actually started eating the corpse from the feet.
Similarly, when guru sahib asked the sangat to give their head, he actually cut off their heads in front of the whole sangat.
If you say, that guru sahib took them in a tent and fooled the sangat that it was human blood on his sword, then you are accusing Guru sahib of lying to the sangat and doing something different from what he said. (sorry I said accusing, used the wrong word; I mean the implication of this saakhi)
Do you know what Gurbani says about people who speak different and do different?
ਜਿਨ੍ਹ ਮਨਿ ਹੋਰੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਰੁ ਸਿ ਕਾਂਢੇ ਕਚਿਆ ॥੧॥
(ਪਰ ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਹੋਰ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਮੂੰਹੋਂ ਕੁਝ ਹੋਰ ਆਖਦੇ ਹਨ ਉਹ ਕੱਚੇ (ਆਸ਼ਕ) ਆਖੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ ।੧।)
(Those who have one thing in their heart, and something else in their mouth, are judged to be false. ||1||)
My belief is that guru sahib actually cut off their heads in front of the whole sangat and when they poured amrit in their mouth, they became alive. 
 
We are going off-topic ji...
Trimandeep Singh 

Even on a more simpler level, a benefit of keeping that rehit is that one will intake more iron

Even on a more simpler level, a benefit of keeping that rehit is that one will intake more iron

Yes, it has many benefits. 
Paapiman's point is also relevant that if Baani can have effect on Sarbloh then why not fire? I think we need vichar of people who oppose Havan too.
We are no scholars. I think after listening to the opinions of both sides, we will be able to conclude.
@paapiman ji will try to find Katha of any Kathvachaks who favour and oppose Havan.
Trimandeep Singh 

I was raised around all sorts of christianity. And it played a big role in the celtic history in recent times. I was fortunate enough to be raised in an irish catholic bubble before it burst that was a real link into the past and a certain type of catholicism. My mother fused her understanding of high energy physics and mathematics with spirituality and pointed to Sikhs as being the best example, and had great insight into what it meant to be a real Christian. I was taught about all religions to some degree. I later transitioned into Gnosticism and studied many things broadly and the best sources of Gnosis deeply. In the world of christianity I would be a minority but I've been around every form of it and attended some of their schools. 
Christianity, overall, is largely, and has long been, infiltrated, corrupted and ...unempowered. Individual christians, many times naive to this, are quite lovely people even in the weirder sects. There are some profoundly powerful real christians out there however in small numbers. 
Christ is real, but almost no christian understands his message or the workings of metaphysics or meditation enough to understand. Almost entirely, christianity is a cult of idol worship.  It is my belief and experience, that Christ supports anyone proporting to follow him to become a Sikh if they are sincere. As a Sant who's name escapes me indicated. I experienced this myself on my journey from fine christian to Wretched Gursikh. It's like going from big fish in the small pond into the ocean. 
When Halemi Raj occurs this relationship will be more clear. 
I know that is a long answer to a short question but christianity is complex and even though I was immersed in it, I took the gems and ran, it's uhh...terrifying actually when you peel back the veil even a bit. 
I had a really neat experience the other day. I was doing Naam Jaap and got close to a Christian, which I didn't realize at first. And I was really feeling good. I started saying Dan Dan Guru Nanak Dev Ji under my breath and when I did this young man got elated. He said Whew...something is here! and started sweating and dancing while he finished his work up and immediately started telling me he returned to his practices recently. I hadn't said anything to him. 
I had a very vivid dream one time where my deceased grandfather and I were eating in a restaurant and there was a Gursikh family next to us eating happily. And after I spoke with my grandfather a while who only smiled and nodded while I spoke, the Sikh family spoke to us and they asked him if he would condone my being given to them and he nodded. 
I've also had an experience where I used two forms of Naam from paleo hebrew in the middle of Vaheguru Naam Jaap and it uhh..seemed to bring Christ's pressence to support my Naam Jaap who themself was...doing Naam Jaap. Sat Naam.
The natural progression is for people to move from christianity to Sikhi. Not the other way around and not to conFUSE them. There is a gentleman who has YouTube videos. A Sikh who studied with jesuits I think it was? He is inspired about a relationship between the two, and produces a lot of content. He is right about a relationship, but from my point of view he has all the details wrong. Christ was not Guru Nanak Dev Ji as he says. He was more like a beloved vangaurd and his works were not protected because they were not intended to be. Rather than take the warning, the enemies of life and enlightenment took over his subsequent faith, name and image, and coopted it into their existing Adharmi movement.  Which is fine. Gursikhi still en route. Halemi Raj innevitable. 

Just wanted to share this video. Please watch and give your views. I have a couple of things I want to share but I want to just research them first to make sure as it's been a long time since I read them.
 
 

Well given that I was never here to "debunk" it, I still feel the same about it. I have the book, and it forms part of a larger book detailing the input of the Mazhabi Sikhs in the wider Sikh Panth. It is still a valuable source of information as a granth by itself. However the book...
 
You're right Dal. The book is written by Niranjab Singh Arifi, a Mazhabi Sikh himself who has at times vilified other castes. His whole other work in this book is just a inflammatory jibe at other castes and denigrating their service to the Panth at the expense of his own caste. I read the first chapter on Sri Gur Katha, which includes a translation, but the second chapter by Arifi is just horrendous.

I believe placing water near The Guru Granth Sahib Ji is good and right. At the same time, it is NOT the replacement of having you hear the Bani. There are lot of today's so-called scholars as well as owners-of-religions who say that placing water or having a Desi-ghee jyot is manmat (not the way of Sikhi) but sadly they are wrong. They neither understood the Bani nor the working/principles/rules of this Universe.
So, for the record, it is beneficial to place water (in round earthen pot) near Guru Granth Sahib Ji or any other place where the glories of Waheguru/God are sung/discussed. In-fact, it is good to place a glass of water near you when you're reading Gurbani or Meditating on the name of Waheguru and then consume that water afterwards or one can also sprinkle that water into their home.
For our monkey mind: Water is the first and foremost winner in the field of acquiring the frequency/energy/signals of the environment and this is the reason Water is being used in almost all religions baptism ceremonies. If you're interested in getting more information on Water Energies, then here is the list of books; all of the following books have information about the secret energies of water.
* Control of Colloid Stability through Zeta Potential by Thomas Riddick
* Living Energies by Callum Coats
* Living Energies by Viktor Schauberger
* Living Water and Secrets Of Natural Energy by Viktor Schauberger
* The Water Wizard by Viktor Schauberger
* The Hidden Messages in Water by Masaru Emoto
* The Secret Life of Water by Masaru Emoto
* Sensitive Chaos: The Creation of Flowing Forms in Water and Air By Theodor Schwenk
* Flowforms: The Rhythmic Power of Water by John Wilkes
* The Fourth Phase of Water: Beyond Solid, Liquid, and Vapor by Gerald H. Pollack
 

I have a very interesting story to share from which we can learn about the Greatness of Sri Sukhmani Sahib.
This is Daas' own story. It had been just 2 weeks when I added Sukhmani Sahib to my Nitnem. I did one Paath every day. Though I didn't see any increase in my concentration during reading bani but was still determined to do it with pyaar because of the importance given to it by mahapurush like Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji, Sant Attar Singh Ji and Baba Nand Singh Ji. But soon due to a little bit added pressure of studies and Daas' ungrateful nature, I stopped doing it and instead did 2-3 small banis along with the mandatory Nitnem.
Soon, I started feeling dhendi kala. I felt so bad. I felt less chardikala than my initial days in Sikhi when I used to read only 5 mandatory Nitnem banis. I felt injustice because I hadn't done anything anti gurmat but still, just by leaving an extra bani and switching back to original Nitnem, I lost those chardikala days. 
I was sad. I didn't bother to read more bani and consider it an indication by Guru sahib to do more abhyaas. Instead, I kept doing an ardaas in a formal way (not from heart) asking guru sahib to give me those days back.
One day, I was having a random conversation with my parents and the topic of punjabi came up. I live in Delhi, India and here, punjabi is not taught in our schools. So, I converse with my parents in Hindi only (even today). My family often used to scold me for not conversing in Punjabi despite knowing it. My mother told me that one of her Hindu friends wanted to learn Punjabi. With a big yawn and through facial expressions, my face said I wasn't interested. But still she insisted me to listen to the story.
She told me that her friend's son (20 yrs) was suffering from wheat allergy since 3 years. They took him to the best of the doctors but he wasn't cured. They left no stone unturned and even went to deras of so called sants to give them mantars so that he could be cured. But everything went in vain. Fortunately, she also approached a Sikh babaji who instructed her to do Sukhmani Sahib da paath every day. On hearing this, her son said, "Why should I read the paath of these sikhs? We are Hindus and we don't need to do this"
To this, her mother replied, "Beta, we have gone everywhere else. What's the harm in trying this? ". After his mother's repeated requests, he agreed. They started reading Sukhmani sahib from Devnagari script (Hindi Lipi script) everyday. And, as we know, 
ਅਨਿਕ ਉਪਾਵੀ ਰੋਗੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
All sorts of remedies have not cured the disease
ਰੋਗੁ ਮਿਟੈ ਹਰਿ ਅਵਖਧੁ ਲਾਇ ॥
- the disease is cured only by giving the medicine of the Lord's Name.
... The lady's son was cured within a month and her happiness knew no bounds. They developed a lot of Shradhha for Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj. They still read it everyday. 
I was moved by the story. Their gratefulness made me ashamed of my attitude towards my Guru. Being a Sikh, I blamed my Guru and they being a Hindu still thanked him everyday by devoting an hour of their day, praising him.
Their inspiring story motivated me to resume Sukhmani Sahib. And this time, the love with which I read this bani was much more than before. I didn't expect any fal (fruit,benefit) and just did it with a blind belief that it will help me get those chardikala days back and cure the disease of ungratefulness in this Akirtkanh. Without any surprise, those days returned. Some rehats which I struggled to follow like waking up at 2am, cold water Gurmat ishnaan, dietary bibek became relatively easier. And most importantly, the focus during Amrit Vela was far more than before.  I also realized a change in my behavior. If anyone disturbed me while doing Paath, I used to get mad at them after my paath was over. But now, I was calm, peaceful and smiling all the time. Random panktis would play like a tape in my mind and I used to sing them with love.
Indeed, Sukhmani Sahib is Sukhaan Di Mani!
ਵਾਹੁ ਵਾਹੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਹੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
Waaho! Waaho! is the Bani, the Word, of the Formless Lord. There is no other as great as He is.
ਜਿਸੁ ਮਨਿ ਬਸੈ ਸੁਨੈ ਲਾਇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ॥
One, within whose mind it abides, and who listens to it with love
ਤਿਸੁ ਜਨ ਆਵੈ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਚੀਤਿ ॥
that humble person consciously remembers the Lord God.
ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਦੂਖੁ ਨਿਵਾਰੈ ॥
The pains of birth and death are removed.
ਦੁਲਭ ਦੇਹ ਤਤਕਾਲ ਉਧਾਰੈ ॥
The human body, so difficult to obtain, is instantly redeemed.
ਨਿਰਮਲ ਸੋਭਾ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਬਾਨੀ ॥
Spotlessly pure is his reputation, and ambrosial is his speech.
ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਨੀ ॥
The One Name permeates his mind.
ਦੂਖ ਰੋਗ ਬਿਨਸੇ ਭੈ ਭਰਮ ॥
Sorrow, sickness, fear and doubt depart.
ਸਾਧ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਤਾ ਕੇ ਕਰਮ ॥
He is called a Holy person; his actions are immaculate and pure.
ਸਭ ਤੇ ਊਚ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਸੋਭਾ ਬਨੀ ॥
His glory becomes the highest of all.
ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹ ਗੁਣਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ ॥੮॥੨੪॥
O Nanak, by these Glorious Virtues, this is named Sukhmani, Peace of mind. ||8||24||

Trimandeep Singh 
 

Yes bro I do believe in paras Kala of Gurbani.
When we read bani near water, it makes it amrit and when we consume it, it does have effect on us. Surprisingly, science has also proved it. 
When we normally read bani, then I don't think it purifies air. I think bani changes the vibrations around us but doesn't do anything to air. (Eg: if you read bani near polluted water, it will not purify all the gandh from it. It will still be impure)
When we talk about fire, I can't think of any effect it will have on fire.
If we talk about earth. I don't know what effect will it do the land/earth.
And I don't know why but the name of the fifth element is not striking in the mind of this moorakh right now.
Bhul chuk maaf
Trimandeep Singh 

@Trimandeep Singh and others.
Did Bhai saab Bhai Randhir Singh jee see plenty of weapons, while his Surat was in Karam Khand? If yes, can anyone go into details of that experience of Bhai saab?
 
Bhul chuk maaf

Gurparsaad, Daas will discuss about Idol Worship and Photos in a separate topic.
 
Bhul chuk maaf

This thread is an example of a discussion, which went off-topic. Well, Daas also made a mistake by replying to a post. I should have had moved the discussion to a different topic.
Anyways, Daas can only request people to stay on-topic. Rest is their choice.
 
Bhul chuk maaf

I remember talking to sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale about this. Whilst he never downplayed havan ritual itself -udasi and nirmale do with gurbani mantras invoke shaheed singhs. He did mentioned In our tradition, havan is practical instead of offering havan /fire to deities instead fire is used in langar to cook and gurbani is reciten.
Now thats practical.

Laleshwari,

I havn't posted here for quite some time, but now I have to. Please show me where in the Chaupa Singh rehitnama it says anything about kirpaan amrit. Anywhere. It mentions this: "Jo Sikh, SikhNee noo(n) khanday dee paahul naa dayvay, so Tankhaiyaa" (105) meaning, "that Sikh who does not give khanday kee paahul to a female-Sikh, is a Tankhaiyaa".

You keep whining about taking things out of context. You learned this phrase from some book and keept parroting it. Explain what part of the Chaupa Singh article was out of context. And please do offer the context it lacks.

I have never, NEVER read about kirpaan amrit. I've read this in Prem Sumaarag about giving women Khanday Kee Paahul, "Fayr, Sikh kareeai, jougat naal paahul khandai kee deejeeai. Ar Ardaas kareeai: "Jee! Eh jee man bach karam kar Khalsay kaa jama pehar kay SikhNee hoee hai. Khushee karho! Jo Sree Akaal Purakh apnay marag kaa rang bakhshay. Anand saath rahai"

Meaning, "Then, make her a Sikh, by giving her Khanday Kee Paahul with the proper method. Then do ardaas" "Lord! This one has by word and action taken on the form of a Khalsa and become your Sikhnee (female Sikh). Be pleased! May Akaal Purakh give her the divine colours of his path. May she live in bliss."

Then you ask why Muslims/Christians don't get influenced by Hindu practices in that area. What are you talking about??? The Muslims of Bombay celebrate Diwali and are considered very Hinduised. Kung writes, "Hindu forms of song, postures, gestures, dances, decoration", and "appropriate texts from the Vedas, which attest to the transition of humanity to the transcendental dimension" have found a place in Christianity in India (Kung, 283). Christian missionaries lament how many "Christian" homes have idols of Hindu gods inside.

Anyways, please do post some proof/evidence of the authenticity of kirpaan amrit. Arguments like "wait for the website" or "I don't like your English style" are not acceptable. Either show kirpaan amrit's authenticity or give up and continue to believe in this deviant practice privately.

I would respect the picture but I would not use it to aid me in my Simran. I have Gurbani and naam for that ji
 
Bhul chuk maaf