Sat1176

Have a listen to this. 
 

For those who read this thread in interest and are searching, this video is one of the most revealing I have ever watched. 
 

Good question @HisServant about sunn. I also am suffering from the same confusion as it happens quite frequently with me as of late. Although I do like to do simran when lying down as body is most comfortable in that position so I can focus purely on the mantar rather than being distracted by uncomfortable body aches. Never the less if I meditate on the train on the way to work in a seated position I also tend to loose awareness for a few minutes at a time.
Here is something I read in favour of both approaches,. which doesn't make choosing a path to explore any easier. My concern is that lets say we force ourselves to remain aware as we drift into a meditation state. Unless shabad of some kinds is pargat or doesn't become pargat. We will wonder without an anchor point. Everything I have heard to date suggests shabad must be the focal point of the journey inwards.
Japing until you fall asleep/sunn:
 
Remaining altert:
Whenever I teach a beginning meditation course, I talk about the relationship between meditating and falling asleep, for, as you have discovered, they are more closely related than you might think. And certainly closer than we want them to be!
We tend to think of the three states of consciousness – subconscious sleep, waking consciousness, and superconscious meditation – as linear, with “sub” and “super” nicely separated by the waking state.
In fact, all three meet at what you might call the horizon line of awareness.
Meditating and sleep also share certain characteristics. Both involve the cessation of physical action, mental activity, and sensory input. The all-important difference between them is that to enter superconsciousness requires an increase of energy, whereas to enter subconsciousness requires a decrease.
We go to sleep when our energy has run out. If we are filled with energy — mental or physical — we can’t enter subconsciousness, but have to do something with all that energy before sleep will come.
One of the challenges of meditation is to learn how to increase our energy in a non-physical, non-mental, totally relaxed way. At first this seems impossible, but gradually we learn. For all the energy we need is already within us. It is a matter of learning how to direct it.
Another obstacle to entering superconsciousness is that we already have a fixed habit of what to do when we withdraw our energy from body, mind, and senses: we go to sleep.
What is happening to you (which is common) is that, finding yourself with your energy withdrawn you naturally go where you are accustomed to going, which is sleep, not meditation.
The key to breaking that cycle is the concentrated application of will power and energy, which makes sleep impossible. Naturally, this takes time to learn.
In meditation classes, I draw a diagram to illustrate this point. I’ll try to explain it in words here and hope you can see what I mean.
Think of a capital Y. Now imagine that Y is lying on its side, with the single straight line pointing to the left (as you look at it) and the V opening to the right.
The leftmost point of that straight line is waking consciousness. When you decide to sleep or to meditate, you travel along that straight line, to the right, closing down as you go all your usual expressions of energy – talking, moving, thinking, hearing, seeing, tasting, feeling, etc. – until you reach the intersection where the V meets the straight line.
At that point, you have a choice to make. If you continue to decrease your energy, you fall into subconscious sleep. If, however, at that point, through devotion, techniques, concentration, willpower, etc., you increase your energy instead, you go into superconsciousness.
It’s like watching a movie. When you watch a great movie it is easy to be fully concentrated on it and be full of energy, but if the movie is boring and uninteresting, it’s easy to lose focus and feel sleepy.
If during the course of your meditation, your energy decreases, you sink back past that junction until you find yourself suddenly on the “low road,” not meditating at all, but dreaming and sleeping.
The solution is simple. When you find yourself suddenly subconscious, increase your energy through any one of the many methods you have to draw upon in Kriya Yoga or whatever path to Self-realization you are following.
Eventually, you will create a superconscious habit stronger than your subconscious habit, and this will cease to be a problem for you.
https://www.ananda.org/ask/ive-been-falling-asleep-while-meditating/
 
Another form of guidance I read was do bakhari bani until you notice that you speech is becoming less clear, distorted or incomplete. This is the time that one is approaching the sleep juncture. At this point one needs to build more focused concentration on the mantar so that you slip through into mediation and not fall into sleep. The posting I read suggested this would lead to the next level of astral awareness.
I only once ever recall this happening to me when my surti awoke in a dark place, wondering where I had come. I guess this was the goal all along but I didn't realise it at the time and no one pointed it out to me clearly afterwards.
 

For those who read this thread in interest and are searching, this video is one of the most revealing I have ever watched. 
 

Rom rom simran instructions:
Be One With the Cosmic Pulse
Day One
Blessings to you!  Welcome to 40 Days to Be One With the Cosmic Pulse.  
Japa is typically thought to mean repetition of a mantra.  But really Japa is the process of awakening a mantra.
Your own pulse should do Japa.  
You should not do Japa.  
Realize that inside you, there is a continual Japa.  The beat in the body continually repeats Sat Naam Sat Naam Sat Naam, without any effort on your part.  
Yogi Bhajan said, “Meditating on your own pulse is the hardest meditation a man can do.  But take the worst criminal on the Earth and make him meditate for 2 ½ hours on his pulse and after ninety days, give him a gun and tell him to shoot you.  If he can handle it, spit in my face.  That much cleansing can happen in consciousness.”  Let meditating on the pulse totally cleanse your consciousness.  Let it bloom you.
Whenever we chant Sat Naam, we always think that we are chanting.  When we think we are chanting, really this is our conditioned superficial “I” that is chanting.  
Realize that we have been chanting in the pulse all along.  Listen to the mantra in the pulse.  Be receptive to Japa.  Allow your witnessing consciousness to contemplate:  who is the one who is beating this heart?  
Meditate on the Japa of the pulse, and may Guru Ram Das always be in your heart!
Yogi Amandeep Singh

In the sakhis I heard, Bhai Mani Singh reordered the writings putting all the Guru's banis at the front followed by the bhagats banis.

The meaning I have heard is that when the panj shabad become  pargat they eventually resonante so fast that they lead to One sound called Naam, the sound of Ongkar.

.

I have also heard the same.
 

Ist level sunn is the dreamless state we all go into.  It is the deep sleep when one's mind disassociates from the physical body.  This same sunn is also the sunn of bhavsagar journey from mool duar to trikuti.
2nd level sunn is Sunn-mandal , bathing in amritsar, Also called sunn sarovar and some other names as well. This sunn is where naad is heard, but maya is still on surrounding  as well.  Abyasees can meet other abyasees in this sunn-mandal. It's also the place of void in space.  Alot of cleansing at this sunn
3rd sunn (anhad sunn) is further from sunn-mandal, when one is completely surrounding by anhad naad.  Maya still present behind. One is at the Dar. One hears the kirtan and bani of devte outside the dar of sacha mahal.  One also sees own jyot in this sunn at the same time. 
4th is Sunn samadhi. The one where gurbani mentions the vision/ darshan of immaculate niranjan. This is where nirankar is permanently. This is sach-khand. It is only accessed after he opens the door. This is the Primal Nirankar void, behind the ong.
 
The layout of darbar sahib also constructs the journey of these sunns. 
 
I have found references to these sunns in gurbani, but they aren't easy to explain.  I can attempt a very slow step by step explanation to the pangtees and shabads, but seriously, without experiencing at least 2nd or 3rd sunn, or hearing raags, .doing sant mandli,  etc..most seekers will find it difficult to digest or understand.  
 

There's 4 levels of Sunn, from what I gather. The 4th Sunn is the ultimate "sunn samadhi" in which you go directly into Nijh Ghar..Nirankar is in this Primal void PERMANENTLY,  and always was, always will be, but we can only go in and out(since we are jivs in maya)  We can go into chautha padh, ,visit,, and back out again. This is jivan mukhti.  House  of Nanak summary is   Attain Jivan mukhti --> at time of death,  go  DIRECTLY into Sunn Samadh with Akaal Purakh by latching on to NAAM (nanak naam jahaz hai).... Here, you shed ego, identity as you wont need to leave chautha padh again---=>>completely Ik-Mikh....and dissolved.
Yes, some have reported this, but i'm sure it depends on avastha.  Complete manmukhs/paapi.. don't often get second chance unless they were from devi/devte realm prior to birth. 
After my personal NDE and coma, I was aware of all  the people i had hurt in my life. It was a really weird perspective because I perceived it all outside of my own ego. As if i could feel the effect the other parties felt after I had hurt them.   One of the first things i was doing after waking up a month later was, asking forgiveness for these wrongs.  On top of all this, I knew  I was sent back to jap naam because that's what i had begged for prior to birth.   I never japped naam before my accident because no one ever told me and i hadn't got a clue where to begin. I took me a few years to work out what to do and how to get cracking at it. At the same time, I also worked out how to use mind to heal myself from brain and spinal injuries.
 
Yeh, dimethyltryptamine..We had another couple of threads about this some time ago. Naam rus does contain a very small amount of DMT. The shamans in the amazon drink it via ayahuasca, however, they only have divine experience if they are vibrating at higher frequencies. Otherwise, most folks end up having scary trips with jams scaring them and i think it' lower avastha dmt  consumers that could have freaky future and past visions.  I've shared and confirmed experiences with two local dmt users that were quite spiritual and into meditation/yoga.. Their accounts were interesting and it confirmed quite a few things for me.
 
 

Taken from Forgetting the Way of Love - by Bhai Sewa Singh Tharmala.
The language of sukham is anhad (without any boundaries). The language spoken by Gurmukhs in this world with their attention in the Naad (Naam) is known as Gurbani. Gurbani starts from Naad or Shabad Guru. That’s why Gurbani is also known as Gurbani Guru. Since we do not understand the language of Parlok the Gurmukhs speak the praises of Parlok in our language. It is known as Brahm Gyaan (divine knowledge of God). Guru Gobind Singh told Baba Deep Singh and Bhai Mani Singh to leave the air and get absorbed in the Naad. Then they sat at the dar (border between Lok and Parlok). Guru Gobind Singh Ji told them to collect the words of Baba Kabir at that stage. (It happens in the same way when one person talks and the other person listen. All our voices and pictures are stored in the Sunn. If we can reach that stage by staying jaagat, we can also watch and listen to our words from the past lives. The same thing happens in our dreams. When we have to listen to words of parlok, we have to stop the network of Kaal and vice versa.). Both Baba Deep Singh and Bhai Mani Singh sat at the dar of Truth in sehaj and collected the words of Baba Kabir. As they listened to the words of Baba Kabir they wrote those words in our language. In the same way they wrote the teachings of all of the saints and devotees that are included in the Guru Granth Sahib. All of the collected teachings were called Gurbani and they were given the designation of Satguru (True Guru). Gurbani only tells the praises of God and Naam and therefore is the Satguru. Sat means Truth and Guru means the word of God (Naam or Shabad Guru). Gurbani tells us:
Shabad Guru Surat Dhun Chella.
The Shabad (Naam) is the Guru; the consciousness (Dhyaan on Naam) is the disciple.
 

Baba Ji's UK divans are available on this YouTube channel. 
 

Baba Ji's UK divans are available on this YouTube channel. 
 

Good video
 

The mind has to be stilled and purified via the gurmantar and has to pass through the following stages before it becomes pure and merges back into Waheguru
1.Many Thoughts and Desires
2. Gurmantar / Mantra (Only taking 1 thought with focused dhyan on this)
3. No Thoughts (Pure Still Mind)
4. Anhad Bani starts so then dhyan/focus is put on this shabad
5. Multiple shabads become one sound (aka Naam) by listening to which you eventually merge back to the Ultimate Truth. This is stage where it is said that God resides in the Mind.
 
har har nit karahi rasnaa kahi-aa kachhoo na jaanee.
They may continually chant, 'Har, Har' with their tongues, but they do not know what they are saying.
chit jin kaa hir la-i-aa maa-i-aa bolan pa-ay ravaanee.
Their consciousness is lured by Maya (mind is wondering and not focusing on the Sound of the Jaap); they are just reciting mechanically.
 
banDhan torh charan kamal drirh-aa-ay ayk sabad liv laa-ee.
Shattering the bonds, the Guru implants the Lord's lotus feet within, and lovingly attunes us to the One Word of the Shabad.
(915)
anDh koop bikhi-aa tay kaadhi-o saach sabad ban aa-ee.
He has lifted me up, and pulled me out of the deep, dark pit of sin; I am attuned to the True Shabad.

manoo-aa asthir sabday raataa ayhaa karnee saaree.
Imbued with the Shabad, his mind becomes steady and stable; this is the most excellent action.
bayd baad na pakhand a-oDhoo gurmukh sabad beechaaree.
This true hermit does not enter into religious debates or hypocrisy; the Gurmukh contemplates the Shabad.
gurmukh jog kamaavai a-oDhoo jat sat sabad veechaaree.
The Gurmukh practices Yoga - he is the true hermit; he practices abstinence and truth, and contemplates the Shabad.
sabad marai man maaray a-oDhoo jog jugat veechaaree.
One who dies in the Shabad and conquers his mind is the true hermit; he understands the Way of Yoga.
 
siv nagree meh aasan baisai gur sabdee jog paa-ee.
Sitting in Yogic postures in the City of God, through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, you shall find Yoga.
(909-14)
Dhaatur baajee sabad nivaaray naam vasai man aa-ee.
Restrain your restless wanderings through the Shabad, and the Naam will come to dwell in your mind.
bhagat janaa kee ootam banee jug jug rahee samaa-ee.
The Bani (Anhad Bani), the Word of the humble devotee is the most sublime and exalted; it prevails throughout the ages.
(909-19)
banee laagai so gat paa-ay sabday sach samaa-ee.
One who is committed to this Bani (Anhad Bani) is emancipated, and through the Shabad, merges in Truth.

It's actually quite a good question. I think it's more to remind us when we see such photos. You would think their avasta has transcended above the need to use such tools. 
 

This a some what difficult to explain without breaking someone's sharda, which is not my intention, in these types of jaaps that gurmukhs and mahapursh encourage. I have hardly heard anyone say when doing mool mantar, do so with complete dhyaan (focused concentration, awareness on the words). What is given emphasis is the count you have to complete. You can do a million recitations at super speeds but if your concentration is not locked on what is being said and it is one big mumble going on the mind or voice, then I'm sorry it probably won't bare any fruit. I feel this is not made clear to abhiyasis when these jaaps are encouraged. Yes it is better than not doing anything and whilst you might build up stamina and be able to sit for long periods the key point is where was the mind when doing these jaaps? What mahapursh hope is that over time your concentration levels will increase automatically after which time you can progress to gurmantar.
 
 

Brother Shivam,
Naam, is within each and every jeeva, irrespective of any dharam,caste, color, creed, age, or gender, or be it a mahapurukh, or a theif, dacoit or a non believer, it is within each and everyone of us. Nam is the highest level of consciousness, with countless virtues, can be summarized in as we all know: Sach/Truth-  Chit/Pure Consciousness - Anand/Bliss
it is not that it is only within sikhs, or hindus,  and not in muslims, christians, buddhists, ...etc, for Nam is the Origin, the Creator of everything.
Guru Jee, in the beginning of the Mool Mantar clearly says: Ik Oankar,  Sat-Nam.  He says: there is only One Lord Creator, which is Nam, and that Nam is sat/sach, which means, it is the only eternal  everlasting Truth. That is why Guru Jee called it Sat-Nam.
Moreover the Bani referring to that Nam, tells us : Aad Sach, jugaad Sach, hae bhee Sach, Nanak hosee bhee sach.
This Nam, is also referred in the Bani as: Shabad, Sachee Bani, Dhur kee Bani, Amrit, Amrit Bani, Anahad Bani....etc. 
The thing is many of us, take Nam literally as a mantar, a word or something utter able, be it in any language. 
But let us ask ourselves, if Nam was a word, a phrase, or a couplet of words, that would not be possible, because how can a word or a handful of words create the infinite creation? 
Moreover, in what language?
For when He exists alone by Himself, since the very beginning, who was there to address Him, or call Him? With which mouth, or in which language?
He, can be described as an Infinite Ocean of Light and Shabad or Dhun. So if in a manner, if the sun has no caste or creed, what caste or creed can a mamulee jeeva atma, a ray of that Light, have?  If an ocean has no caste or creed, what caste or creed can  a mamulee drop of that ocean have? it is by braham, we say we are this, or that one is so, or so.  And due to that braham, fools blinded by the agyanta, and under hatred, ahankar, and ego, fight and kill in the name of dharam/religion.
That also, when in the Bani, referring to that primal force as  Jot/Light, Guru Jee clearly says : Sabh meh Jot, Jot hae soee. 
That Nam is Jot, and that very Jot is within every being, as a ray of that Jot.
There can be many words, in many languages, to describe that One Truth, but all aim to that ultimate reality. Christians call it Word or Logos, muslims call it Kun, chinese call it Tao, etc
Now, what you call Naam Daan,  it is not that, Naam is given to anybody, because as said before, Nam is within everybody already, without it we can not even exist for a second. When He infuses that ray of Nam within anybody, that being becomes conscious being/living being, be it in any joonee. And when He withdraws, that ray of Nam, we cease to exist, and parlays, and mahaparlays take place, and the creation at all levels also comes to an end, until once again, He, Wahiguru Akal Purukh, out of His Mauj, wants to create again.
So you see, what you refer as Naam daan, I would say, is a technique, a jugtee, to make pargat that Nam within us, which already exists, but of which due to the filth of our karmas, vices, man, maya, sanskaras, senses, we are unable to perceive that reality of Nam.
So brother, if the path of Radha Soami Satsang Beas, tells you to wait until you are 25, then try to read more literature, read the Bani, in order to understand and convince yourself, what is right for you, do not rush into anything.
The path is already within also,  and if you are to tread that path, or any other, do not worry, nobody can ever push you away, nor pull you along, for your destiny is only yours, it is a matter of time only.
For the mean time, as brother das has written in his post, keep an eye on your karam, in order to stay clean, and do seva as he has suggested also.
Stay blessed.
Sat Sree Akal.
 
 

Exactly 
We get “Gur mantar” through 5 pyaare
Naam is present in us.  With Guru’s kirpa it becomes pargat. 
We cannot get NAAM from outside. 

Yes please continue doing meditation with whatsoever technique you're following. Do you see any harm in continuing meditation (exactly the same way you're doing)?
Your efforts (meditation-without-guru or say without-naam-dhan or initiation, or baptism, or whatever name you prefer) will help you in the following way:
- To keep away from bad karma/deeds.
- To clean your mind. You can pour milk in a bowl only if the bowl is clean. So, do meditate, it will help you in direct/indirect way.
Basically clean yourself internally. And the best thing is to do physical seva in Mandir/Gurdwara or in general of any needy, that would help to clean your older bad karma along with check to your ego. And continue meditation along with that. In other words, seva of humanity and meditation is a good recipe.
Don't indulge in this-method-vs-that-method or mine-vs-there. That is the game of illusion. e.g if you're dying with thirst and someone offered you water; you don't ask if the person is from this creed or that creed. Meditation is the act of Selfless Love which is possible only with Faith.
May be search for "Ishwar Puri" in youtube and that might help you on your path.