Confused about Kundalini /Rom Rom

[CuriousSeeker]

I recently came across this clip.  Benti to ignore the policical motivations from both sides, as I'm just confused about his description of what kundalini does, and how he describes it as going away after few months.  Can any advanced meditator please explain better about what Ranjit Singh is referring to?  And is what he saying correct in terms of how it works?

VID-20170326-WA0003.mp4

[Lucky]

On ‎3‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 6:06 PM, CuriousSeeker said:

I recently came across this clip.  Benti to ignore the policical motivations from both sides, as I'm just confused about his description of what kundalini does, and how he describes it as going away after few months.  Can any advanced meditator please explain better about what Ranjit Singh is referring to?  And is what he saying correct in terms of how it works?

VID-20170326-WA0003.mp4

He doesn't say anything wrong directly in the video but the technique he mentions of excessive & forced navel breathing is NOT simran and not what I would recommend to anyone either.   He is correct that this can lead to a "Forced" kundalini awakening, ..but all Yoga's advise against this in general and warn students about not attempting forced kundalini awakenings.    However, the video can be misinterpreted, because he has used the term yojis, very loosely. It gives the impression that all yogi methods are forced and not gurmat. Whereas, this is clearly not the case.

He says that people doing "waheguru waheguru" and no gurbani veechar or paaths is a false technique-> True to an extent, ..but you have to do simran to start going within,..and when you are more inwards, you will interpret gurbani at much deeper levels.  A true abyassee can usually tell if another Sikh has been practicing abyaas in gurmat, if the other's gurbani veechar and interpretation is deep enough and more profound. .Especially with bhagat bani like Kabeer ji and Naamdev..

 

 

[CuriousSeeker]

4 hours ago, Lucky said:

He doesn't say anything wrong in the video but the technique he mentions of excessive & forced navel breathing is NOT simran and not what I would recommend to anyone either.   He is correct that this can lead to a "Forced" kundalini awakening, ..but all Yoga's advise against this in general and warn students about not attempting forced kundalini awakenings.    However, the video can be misinterpreted, because he has used the term yojis, very loosely. It gives the impression that all yogi methods are forced and not gurmat. Whereas, this is clearly not the case.

He says that people doing "waheguru waheguru" and no gurbani veechar or paaths is a false technique-> True to an extent, ..but you have to do simran to start going within,..and when you are more inwards, you will interpret gurbani at much deeper levels.  A true abyassee can usually tell if another Sikh has been practicing abyaas in gurmat, if the other's gurbani veechar and interpretation is deep enough and more profound. .Especially with bhagat bani like Kabeer ji and Naamdev..

 

 

Thanks bro, had me confused.  His video seems to imply he seems to think all kundalini awakenings are forced where thats obviously not the case.  

[Ragmaala]

By listening to him, you can tell he has very superficial knowledge about such things, I doubt he himself has experienced anything. I think he has been spending a lot of time with Panthpreet Singh, and thus his views are starting to change and going astray.

Many pracharks have no idea about inner workings of body or any practical experience. 

[Sat1176]

Someone out there is trying to cause friction with this video between him and other groups. First of all why was AKJ shown doing naam simran at the beginning? Do AKJ teach applying pressure on the navel during naam abhiyaas? 

Anyway leaving that point aside, I don't agree with what he is saying. I have heard a number of mahapursh teach this technique and the first time was years ago, in the audio simran instruction recording of Sant Baba Isher Singh (Rare Wale). He clearly stated in that, when one applies pressure on the navel you will eventually begin to feel the pulse behind it. When simran is synchronized with that pulse and dhyaan is placed there it would lead to manifestation of Rom Rom simran. He said Bakhari was done at the mouth, Madhma in Khant, Pasanti in the heart and Para at the navel. Maskeen ji also wrote about this in the book Prabhu Simran.

I also recall reading in the instructions given by Sant Baba Waryam Singh that one should not progress to the trikuti until you see the planets and starts at the navel and one hears the anhad shabad.

Secondly in Sidh Gosht (Ang 945), Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji says the following to the Siddhas:

ih man maigal kahaa basee-alay kahaa basai ih pavnaa.
"Where does this mind-elephant live? Where does the breath reside?

kahaa basai so sabad a-oDhoo taa ka-o chookai man kaa bhavnaa.
Where should the Shabad reside, so that the wanderings of the mind may cease?"

nadar karay taa satgur maylay taa nij ghar vaasaa ih man paa-ay.
When the Lord blesses one with His Glance of Grace, he leads him to the True Guru. Then, this mind dwells in its own home within.

aapai aap khaa-ay taa nirmal hovai Dhaavat varaj rahaa-ay.
When the individual consumes his egotism, he becomes immaculate, and his wandering mind is restrained.

ki-o mool pachhaanai aatam jaanai ki-o sas ghar soor samaavai.
"How can the root, the source of all be realized? How can the soul know itself? How can the sun enter into the house of the moon?"

gurmukh ha-umai vichahu khovai ta-o naanak sahj samaavai. ||64||
The Gurmukh eliminates egotism from within; then, O Nanak, the sun naturally enters into the home of the moon. ||64||

ih man nihchal hirdai vasee-alay gurmukh mool pachhaan rahai.
When the mind becomes steady and stable, it abides in the heart, and then the Gurmukh realizes the root, the source of all.

naabh pavan ghar aasan baisai gurmukh khojat tat lahai.
The breath is seated in the home of the navel; the Gurmukh searches, and finds the essence of reality.

so sabad nirantar nij ghar aachhai taribhavan jot so sabad lahai.
This Shabad permeates the nucleus of the self, deep within, in its own home; the Light of this Shabad pervades the three worlds.

 

On Ang 223 there is references to Baramh Agan by Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji. This Baramh Agan is generated when one does intense jaap in a speedy manor. But if one doesn't know how to control this inner heat it can cause problems, slow best to stick to a slow steady pace unless under guidance of an experienced abhyaasi.

 

nirbha-o jogee niranjan Dhi-aavai.
The Yogis meditate on the Fearless, Immaculate Lord.

an-din jaagai sach liv laavai.
Night and day, they remain awake and aware, embracing love for the True Lord.

so jogee mayrai man bhaavai. ||2||
Those Yogis are pleasing to my mind. ||2||

kaal jaal barahm agnee jaaray.
The trap of death is burnt by the Fire of God.

[ragnarok]

On 3/27/2017 at 0:31 PM, Sat1176 said:

I don't agree with what he is saying. I have heard a number of mahapursh teach this technique and the first time was years ago, in the audio simran instruction recording of Sant Baba Isher Singh (Rare Wale). He clearly stated in that, when one applies pressure on the navel you will eventually begin to feel the pulse behind it. When simran is synchronized with that pulse and dhyaan is placed there it would lead to manifestation of Rom Rom simran. He said Bakhari was done at the mouth, Madhma in Khant, Pasanti in the heart and Para at the navel. Maskeen ji also wrote about this in the book Prabhu Simran.

You disagree with this? Why?

[Lucky]

On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 11:26 AM, Ragmaala said:

By listening to him, you can tell he has very superficial knowledge about such things, I doubt he himself has experienced anything. I think he has been spending a lot of time with Panthpreet Singh, and thus his views are starting to change and going astray.

Many pracharks have no idea about inner workings of body or any practical experience. 

You right, his views are more missionary. I too, doubt he has any experience or if he has ever had any kind of spiritual experience. Lots of sangat listen to him and take his words as gospel, which is a shame. 

Ignore these kinds and just absorb the little bits of truth that one is able to extract.

 

[Lucky]

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 2:31 AM, Sat1176 said:

He clearly stated in that, when one applies pressure on the navel you will eventually begin to feel the pulse behind it. When simran is synchronized with that pulse and dhyaan is placed there it would lead to manifestation of Rom Rom simran. He said Bakhari was done at the mouth, Madhma in Khant, Pasanti in the heart and Para at the navel.

I firmly believe that there is no other technique more effective than navel activation for establishing rom rom. I never tried to put together the various mahapursh's guidance about Navel, to conclude it's significance.

[Sat1176]

Before someone critises techniques and simply passing them if as yog mat, they should along side their comments say to the sangat I used this technique as per gurbani and achieved xyz result. But you will never hear this in any video. This holier than thou attitude, is becoming a serious disease with our faith and we are quick to downplay techniques that mahapursh have used In the past. This knowledge will become lost real soon, if the majority of the emphasis is placed only on outwardly seva and reading gurbani. Don't get me wrong reading gurbani is absolutely important as without it you have no knowledge, but one must also walk on the path and follow the instructions within it. How else will we do khoj of ourselves? 

Am sure I read the pangti somewhere,

SatGur ki seva Har Naam dayaiyeh.

No doubt Sant/Bhai Ranjit Singh is doing a lot of seva and parchar in the panth, probably like no other in recent times, which means he has even a bigger responsibility to put people on the right path. I am yet to see what that is from him in terms of bhagti advice. 

[Lucky]

A non-swimmer can read as many books on how to swim.  Months and years of reading..reading..and reading,  without ever attempting to get in the water, will never help him to swim a length physically. In the same manner, if you don't ever undertake the real practice, then all the readings will be of no use in the end.

 

[Sat1176]

On ‎27‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 10:31 AM, Sat1176 said:

On Ang 223 there is references to Baramh Agan by Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji. This Baramh Agan is generated when one does intense jaap in a speedy manor. But if one doesn't know how to control this inner heat it can cause problems, slow best to stick to a slow steady pace unless under guidance of an experienced abhyaasi.

 

nirbha-o jogee niranjan Dhi-aavai.
The Yogis meditate on the Fearless, Immaculate Lord.

an-din jaagai sach liv laavai.
Night and day, they remain awake and aware, embracing love for the True Lord.

so jogee mayrai man bhaavai. ||2||
Those Yogis are pleasing to my mind. ||2||

kaal jaal barahm agnee jaaray.
The trap of death is burnt by the Fire of God.

Furthermore on Ang 1161 Kabeer ji asks the following question?

ki-o leejai gadh bankaa bhaa-ee.
How can the beautiful fortress be conquered, O Siblings of Destiny?

dovar kot ar tayvar khaa-ee. ||1|| rahaa-o.
It has double walls and triple moats. ||1||Pause||

paa^Nch pachees moh mad matsar aadee parbal maa-i-aa.
It is defended by the five elements, the twenty-five categories, attachment, pride, jealousy and the awesomely powerful Maya.

jan gareeb ko jor na pahuchai kahaa kara-o raghuraa-i-aa. ||1||
The poor mortal being does not have the strength to conquer it; what should I do now, O Lord? ||1||

kaam kivaaree dukh sukh darvaanee paap punn darvaajaa.
Sexual desire is the window, pain and pleasure are the gate-keepers, virtue and sin are the gates.

kroDh parDhaan mahaa bad dundar tah man maavaasee raajaa. ||2||
Anger is the great supreme commander, full of argument and strife, and the mind is the rebel king there. ||2||

savaad sanaah top mamtaa ko kubuDh kamaan chadhaa-ee.
Their armor is the pleasure of tastes and flavors, their helmets are worldly attachments; they take aim with their bows of corrupt intellect.

tisnaa teer rahay ghat bheetar i-o gadh lee-o na jaa-ee. ||3||
The greed that fills their hearts is the arrow; with these things, their fortress is impregnable. ||3||

paraym paleetaa surat havaa-ee golaa gi-aan chalaa-i-aa.
But I have made divine love the fuse, and deep meditation the bomb; I have launched the rocket of spiritual wisdom.

barahm agan sehjay parjaalee aykeh chot sijhaa-i-aa. ||4||
The fire of God is lit by intuition, and with one shot, the fortress is taken. ||4||

sat santokh lai larnay laagaa toray du-ay darvaajaa.
Taking truth and contentment with me, I begin the battle and storm both the gates.

saaDhsangat ar gur kee kirpaa tay pakri-o gadh ko raajaa. ||5||
In the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, and by Guru's Grace, I have captured the king of the fortress. ||5||

bhagvat bheer sakat simran kee katee kaal bhai faasee.
With the army of God's devotees, and Shakti, the power of meditation, I have snapped the noose of the fear of death.

daas kameer charh^Hi-o garh^H oopar raaj lee-o abhinaasee. ||6||9||17||
Slave Kabeer has climbed to the top of the fortress; I have obtained the eternal, imperishable domain.

 

An interpretation of the above lines is exactly the what Ranjit Singh was complaining against in the video.

What chot/shot is being referred to here?

It is the shot of the Gurmantar at the navel. The location where Shakti, "kundalani" is said to reside.

These kinds of pangti's are encoded messages in the language of the saint's which the common person will not understand. Only when you enter in naam abhiyas circles are these kinds of things spoken and revealed.

[paapiman]

On 3/25/2017 at 9:06 PM, CuriousSeeker said:

I recently came across this clip.  Benti to ignore the policical motivations from both sides, as I'm just confused about his description of what kundalini does, and how he describes it as going away after few months.  Can any advanced meditator please explain better about what Ranjit Singh is referring to?  And is what he saying correct in terms of how it works?

VID-20170326-WA0003.mp4

Bro, is the full diwan available online?

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Sat1176]

Interesting read

http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/spiritual-research/kundalini-and-chakras/kundalini-awakening/

http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/spiritual-research/kundalini-and-chakras/kundalini-chakras-awakening/

 

[Raju]

Rom Rom requires self-generating mantra. Acquiring that stage has many techniques. And maintaining it is delicate.However, not all techniques are suitable for all aspirants. Depends on one's karma, and where the flow of pran is concentrated in the body. 

 

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Raju said:

Rom Rom requires self-generating mantra. Acquiring that stage has many techniques. And maintaining it is delicate.However, not all techniques are suitable for all aspirants. Depends on one's karma, and where the flow of pran is concentrated in the body. 

 

Does Rom Rom start before one reaches Brahamgyan? Is it possible for one to attain Rom Rom avastha, but still be affected by vikars?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Raju]

Yes, it starts before that. Before you attain realization it is possible to fall again, as many of us do.

[Sat1176]

Rom rom simran instructions:

Be One With the Cosmic Pulse

Day One

Blessings to you!  Welcome to 40 Days to Be One With the Cosmic Pulse.  

Japa is typically thought to mean repetition of a mantra.  But really Japa is the process of awakening a mantra.

Your own pulse should do Japa.  

You should not do Japa.  

Realize that inside you, there is a continual Japa.  The beat in the body continually repeats Sat Naam Sat Naam Sat Naam, without any effort on your part.  

Yogi Bhajan said, “Meditating on your own pulse is the hardest meditation a man can do.  But take the worst criminal on the Earth and make him meditate for 2 ½ hours on his pulse and after ninety days, give him a gun and tell him to shoot you.  If he can handle it, spit in my face.  That much cleansing can happen in consciousness.”  Let meditating on the pulse totally cleanse your consciousness.  Let it bloom you.

Whenever we chant Sat Naam, we always think that we are chanting.  When we think we are chanting, really this is our conditioned superficial “I” that is chanting.  

Realize that we have been chanting in the pulse all along.  Listen to the mantra in the pulse.  Be receptive to Japa.  Allow your witnessing consciousness to contemplate:  who is the one who is beating this heart?  

Meditate on the Japa of the pulse, and may Guru Ram Das always be in your heart!

Yogi Amandeep Singh

[Kaur10]

On 3/27/2017 at 10:31 AM, Sat1176 said:

Someone out there is trying to cause friction with this video between him and other groups. First of all why was AKJ shown doing naam simran at the beginning? Do AKJ teach applying pressure on the navel during naam abhiyaas? 

Anyway leaving that point aside, I don't agree with what he is saying. I have heard a number of mahapursh teach this technique and the first time was years ago, in the audio simran instruction recording of Sant Baba Isher Singh (Rare Wale). He clearly stated in that, when one applies pressure on the navel you will eventually begin to feel the pulse behind it. When simran is synchronized with that pulse and dhyaan is placed there it would lead to manifestation of Rom Rom simran. He said Bakhari was done at the mouth, Madhma in Khant, Pasanti in the heart and Para at the navel. Maskeen ji also wrote about this in the book Prabhu Simran.

I also recall reading in the instructions given by Sant Baba Waryam Singh that one should not progress to the trikuti until you see the planets and starts at the navel and one hears the anhad shabad.

Secondly in Sidh Gosht (Ang 945), Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji says the following to the Siddhas:

ih man maigal kahaa basee-alay kahaa basai ih pavnaa.
"Where does this mind-elephant live? Where does the breath reside?

kahaa basai so sabad a-oDhoo taa ka-o chookai man kaa bhavnaa.
Where should the Shabad reside, so that the wanderings of the mind may cease?"

nadar karay taa satgur maylay taa nij ghar vaasaa ih man paa-ay.
When the Lord blesses one with His Glance of Grace, he leads him to the True Guru. Then, this mind dwells in its own home within.

aapai aap khaa-ay taa nirmal hovai Dhaavat varaj rahaa-ay.
When the individual consumes his egotism, he becomes immaculate, and his wandering mind is restrained.

ki-o mool pachhaanai aatam jaanai ki-o sas ghar soor samaavai.
"How can the root, the source of all be realized? How can the soul know itself? How can the sun enter into the house of the moon?"

gurmukh ha-umai vichahu khovai ta-o naanak sahj samaavai. ||64||
The Gurmukh eliminates egotism from within; then, O Nanak, the sun naturally enters into the home of the moon. ||64||

ih man nihchal hirdai vasee-alay gurmukh mool pachhaan rahai.
When the mind becomes steady and stable, it abides in the heart, and then the Gurmukh realizes the root, the source of all.

naabh pavan ghar aasan baisai gurmukh khojat tat lahai.
The breath is seated in the home of the navel; the Gurmukh searches, and finds the essence of reality.

so sabad nirantar nij ghar aachhai taribhavan jot so sabad lahai.
This Shabad permeates the nucleus of the self, deep within, in its own home; the Light of this Shabad pervades the three worlds.

 

On Ang 223 there is references to Baramh Agan by Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji. This Baramh Agan is generated when one does intense jaap in a speedy manor. But if one doesn't know how to control this inner heat it can cause problems, slow best to stick to a slow steady pace unless under guidance of an experienced abhyaasi.

 

nirbha-o jogee niranjan Dhi-aavai.
The Yogis meditate on the Fearless, Immaculate Lord.

an-din jaagai sach liv laavai.
Night and day, they remain awake and aware, embracing love for the True Lord.

so jogee mayrai man bhaavai. ||2||
Those Yogis are pleasing to my mind. ||2||

kaal jaal barahm agnee jaaray.
The trap of death is burnt by the Fire of God.

Thanks veer, I was looking for answer to my question as to which chakra to activate first, Trikuti or Mooldhaara. Is it best to start from bottom and keep moving upwards?

I have the  diary book of Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji in which he states Va sound from navel , He sound from heart, Gu sound from throat and R sound from trikuti for naam Simran. Does it mean  we should start from navel , not the lowest chakra, the root chakra?

Or would it be ok to activate the Navel/Sacral chakra first by concentrating Naam Simran on that part for months or years until the point of focus moves up?

@Lucky, @Sat1176, @Soulfinder, @moorakh. Please gave your opinions.

[Kaur10]

On 6/29/2017 at 5:42 PM, Sat1176 said:

Interesting read

http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/spiritual-research/kundalini-and-chakras/kundalini-awakening/

http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/spiritual-research/kundalini-and-chakras/kundalini-chakras-awakening/

 

just explored this website, it is indeed very interesting. Thanks

[Sat1176]

11 hours ago, Kaur1510 said:

Thanks veer, I was looking for answer to my question as to which chakra to activate first, Trikuti or Mooldhaara. Is it best to start from bottom and keep moving upwards?

I have the  diary book of Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji in which he states Va sound from navel , He sound from heart, Gu sound from throat and R sound from trikuti for naam Simran. Does it mean  we should start from navel , not the lowest chakra, the root chakra?

Or would it be ok to activate the Navel/Sacral chakra first by concentrating Naam Simran on that part for months or years until the point of focus moves up?

@Lucky, @Sat1176, @Soulfinder, @moorakh. Please gave your opinions.

I wouldn't get bogged down with chakras. They will open on their own as your mind becomes more still. 

[Soulfinder]

21 hours ago, Kaur1510 said:

Thanks veer, I was looking for answer to my question as to which chakra to activate first, Trikuti or Mooldhaara. Is it best to start from bottom and keep moving upwards?

I have the  diary book of Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji in which he states Va sound from navel , He sound from heart, Gu sound from throat and R sound from trikuti for naam Simran. Does it mean  we should start from navel , not the lowest chakra, the root chakra?

Or would it be ok to activate the Navel/Sacral chakra first by concentrating Naam Simran on that part for months or years until the point of focus moves up?

@Lucky, @Sat1176, @Soulfinder, @moorakh. Please gave your opinions.

Bhen ji here are a few threads i found on gurmatbibek.com about the kundalini subject discussed on the links. 

 

Daas has not done kundalini simran but here is a good mention on it and if anyone has any experience with it please share

http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,5790

 

http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,1688

 

http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,7478

 

http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,19451

[Kaur10]

@Soulfinder so the conclusion is to ignore chakras activation, do Naam Simran with love and technique to reach higher state.

Thanks

[Soulfinder]

15 minutes ago, Kaur1510 said:

@Soulfinder so the conclusion is to ignore chakras activation, do Naam Simran with love and technique to reach higher state.

Thanks

Bhen ji i am not a expert on the subject as i have not reached that level. But its best to find a mahapursh or a puran gurmukh who has done simran with these stages as doing this type of simran jaap without gudiance is to hard understand about whats right or wrong. 

 

Try to get books by Bhai Ragbir Singh Ji Bir as they have talked and discussed a lot about simran stages from their personal life.

[Sat1176]

Funnily enough I came across a book today that explained Chakras quite well. 

[Sat1176]