Mekhane'ch Jannat

I think we should start a best qawwal's thread. But on the other hand it really is a foregone conclusion, no one come close to the masterful Aziz Mian I mean someone like him had so much devotion to Allah that even a sin became an act of bandagi, Ay Allah, waiz ki bandagi hai jahannum ke khauf se Maine gunah kiye tujhe ghaffar samajh kar The preacher is pious only because of his fear of hell, Lord. Whereas me, I sinned freely, trusting in your mercy Listening to Nusrat doesn't evoke the same feelings as the raw passion of aziz mian, the words are but a vehicle, they serve to beautify what i feel is the essence of qawwali the bhaav or state of the qawwal, for me Aziz Mian had experienced divine bliss which expressed itself through his perdormances and nusrat had not, I could be wrong though just my sentiments.

knowledge and experience what is the correct mixture must depend upon what is the aim. Following on from the previous analogy the lake could be our society and the evils and good contained within. So to cross the lake is to be an effective integrated member of society - the mesocosm. This is part of crossing, so to slightly change the analogy our society is the river we must flow with to get to the sea. you -microcosm river - mesocosm and sea - macrocosm each level is absorbed into the higher so the macrocosm absorbs all, is all (please anyone correct this if have got myself confused.) For me the aim is going along with the flow to take you to the sea. How much knowledge does an individual need to be able to go with the flow? This depends on the current of the river which is the society. If the current is strong it is difficult to go against it and it will take you without much effort to the sea the society is attuned to the flow then what knowledge is needed? But if the society is going aganist the flow and the flow is weak then a lot of knowledge is needed to realise that what you are doing is against the flow and you have to attune yourself to nature to let her take you to the sea. Herein is the danger of knowledge whereby without using this knowledge to change fundamentally, internally it makes you fight harder against the current. In other words sadh sangat negates the need for knowledge if the whole society was full of sadhu's then no knowledge is required, knowledge required for moksh rises proportionally with social degredation. Or the need for moksh comes about because of social degredation?

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How can the abstract be mocked. Even through mocking it is paying respects. WHether real or unreal the devta's etc are upon a different level from our everyday world characterised by words and speech. The sentiment that underlies what you call mocking is a beautiful gem. Even an insult can be full of love if pervaded by the right sentiment. It is only the frail 'i must grab onto things" ego of man that feels mocked when an infinetly small aspect of god is seemingly mocked when taken at face value. Another point is even if we mock in opposition to something we still accept that thing we mock as part of our thinking. It is not beyond the pale. So mocking on another level helps the culture grow mutually rather than stagnating by protecting words and concepts, thereby being dead and not alive and vibrant.

Publius Ovid the Celtic influenced Roman writer Describes the gold silver bronze and iron ages http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/creation-ovid.html My viewpoint on the metaphor/fact thing is this; an image from any mythology is a powerful way to remember something. It is only a fact if it improves your behaviour in life. By improve i mean as a Sikh takes you closer to living the perfected life of a brahmgyani. People are very quick to forget and carry on living, so a myth is powerful because it gives an image to your brain that 'sticks' so when you remember the image you remember that you should be acting in a certain way. For example the myth of reincarnation (i do not use myth in a deregotary way) would teach a person detachment and vairaag to the problems he faces in life because he believes it is the fruit of karma from previous births, it can be negative also e.g. i won't do bhagti now i'll wait for a better birth or something along those lines. In other words a myth is not fact until through your own experience you make it into a fact for yourself whereby it takes on a deep meaning for your self. Internal experience and perception of the world lends truth to myths an individual imbues a myth with his own shaktee and makes it useful for him in his daily sadhana. But nowadays we have no societal myths which in my opinion were very powerful and guided socities on the path of dharam. The value of myth is decreased nowadays as reflected in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, not to say that myths have no value now. As in Bhai Gurdas Ji's vaara in satyug a man commits a sin the whole world is punished, in treta the whole city, in dwapar his family and in kaliyug aape he biij appe hi khaae. man is becoming more and more segregated from his fellows a sad sad truth.

Where are you getting this stuff. In this day and age we should promte unity among all lay-peoples of this Earth "ayi panthh sagal jamati" Get together and fight true injustice social and political injustice. Making other peoples beliefs seem incorrect or correct is a pointless waste of time and energy. What do you hope to achieve? are you after a pat on the back for uncovering the evil of Hinduism. OK welldone. Now what. You proved your point Now what.

I was not clear about this in my previous post, I got a bit ahead of myself. What I meant was experience of God is limited by remembering. If I can try to organise myself in this post; The Gurus wisdom in my definition is wisdom outside of maya which when known is inside maya but with an added bonus of a cleansed laser like mind dissolving the seeables and feelables into their essence. In your first post you say what is the colour of this wisdom My reply would be that the relationship of man with God is multi faceted. A deep feeling the ultimate invokes in a man or a piercing into the essence of a thing occurs in a certain situation, so the piercing is "coloured" by maya, in her benevolent aspect. This glimpse into the essence has been represented by our Guru's as various colours. . I don't mean to say thats the whole story just a small suggestion from my limited experience So the Guru's wisdom when given with karam is always limited, when you come back to maya, when you are. I'd say there are a many degree of levels of perfection of people who have received the Guru's wisdom and understood it in their lives. E.g walking up first thing in thing in the morning a person who does abhiaas can have a glimpse but then quickly tesions and thoughts rush back in, it is about perfecting this and having some noble aims in life otherwise you'd leave for good. Our Guru's understood it perfectly as much as any human could but in my view the totality of being cannot be told, as that would imply limitation.

if we take the last of my crappy analogies, I remebered from my bygone physics days that black absorbs colours and white reflects colours in the visible part of the electromagnetic spectrum, so maybe light was not the best word to use. What I meant to say by analogy was the wisdom of the Guru can purify your mind of sanskars and inhibitions or just "bad" thoughts which makes it reflect the soul, which is the cause of materiality (inc. mental apparatus) but seperate. White reflects all colours so by analogy the mind becomes "white" through the Guru's wisdom, which I suppose can be called whitening wisdom or applyying whitewash to your brain. In fact our mind or the guru's wisdom is not white. When the Guru's wisdom permeates a man who through pure experience, intuitively understands, about the essence of being he cannot communicate this experience. This experience is completeness wholeness by saying something about it you are pinching off a bit of roti for a burkhi and saying this is the whole roti. So lets say a man had this experience and came back because he had to do something, and some seemingly inquisitive person asked him what is the colour of the Guru's Wisdom, he would remember the event, by remembering it he has limited it (pinched it off) the rememberenace he now communicates through the sanskars he now has so he may say "the guru's wisdom is pink"

sorry posted twice

The colour of the Guru;s wisdom is red. Because our blood is red. Our blood is the gross version of praan or life energy. Praan is the thread that holds the animal body together it is a chain. Death is a release of the chains or in bygone times doing strange things wwith the breath, esoteric pranayam, broke the chains. And knowledge, cessation of desire can break the chains. Gurus knowledge or wisdom shows a sikh the chains so he can become a devta and recognise his animal body, whilst recognising it, he still "is" it, to some extent but its in his power. So the colour is red because it is the gross extrapolation (the Blood) of a subtle understanding or knowing that only the Guru can show us But it can also be blue because the sky is blue and the sky is unlimited there is end to sky, as the wisdom of the Guru reveals the unending endless. It is also white, white reflects all light. The guru's wisdom purfies manush's buddhi so it pure reflects the transcendental atmaa

"Nakula said, 'The bow, O grandsire, is regarded as the foremost of weapons in this world. My mind, however, inclines towards the sword, since when the bow, O king, is cut off or broken, when steeds are dead or weakened, a good warrior, well trained in the sword, can protect himself by means of his sword. 1 A hero armed with the sword can, single handed, withstand many bowmen, and many antagonists armed with maces and darts. I have this doubt, and I feel curious to know the truth. Which, O king, is really the foremost of weapons in all battles? How was the sword first created and for what purpose? Who also was the first preceptor in the weapon? Tell me all this, O grandsire.' "Vaisampayana continued, 'Hearing these words of the intelligent son of Madri, the virtuous Bhishma, the complete master of the science of the bow, stretched upon his bed of arrows, made this answer fraught with many refined words of delightful import, melodious with vowels properly placed, and displaying considerable skill, unto the high-souled Nakula, that disciple of Drona, endued with skilful training.' "Bhishma said, 'Hear the truth, O son of Madri, about what thou hast asked me. I am excited by this question of thine, like a hill of red-chalk. 2 In ancient times the universe was one vast expanse of water, motionless and skyless, and without this earth occupying any space in it. Enveloped in p. 362 darkness, and intangible, its aspect was exceedingly awful. Utter silence reigning all over, it was immeasurable in extent. In his own proper time the Grandsire (of the universe) took his birth. He then created the wind and fire, and the sun also of great energy. He also created the sky, the heavens, the nether regions, earth, the directions, the firmament with the moon and the stars, the constellations, the planets, the year, the seasons, the months, the two fortnights (lighted and dark) and the smaller divisions of time. The divine Grandsire then, assuming a visible form, begot (by power of his will) some sons possessed of great energy. They are the sages Marichi, Atri, Pulastya, Pulaha, Kratu, Vasishtha, Angiras, and the mighty and puissant lord Rudra, and Prachetas. The last begat Daksha, who in his turn, begat sixty daughters. All those daughters were taken by regenerate sages for the object of begetting children upon them. From them sprang all the creatures of the universe, including the gods, Pitris, Gandharvas, Apsaras, diverse kinds of Rakshasas, birds and animals and fishes, monkeys, great snakes, and diverse species of fowl that range the air or sport on the water, and vegetables, and all beings that are oviparous or viviparous or born of filth. In this way the whole universe consisting of mobile and immobile creatures sprang into existence. The universal Grandsire, having thus evoked into existence all mobile and immobile creatures, then promulgated the eternal religion laid down in the Vedas. That religion was accepted by the gods, with their preceptors, priests, the Adityas, the Vasus, the Rudras, the Sadhyas, the Maruts, the Aswins, Bhrigu, Atri, Angiras, the Siddhas, Kasyapa rich in penances, Vasishtha, Gautama, Agastya, Narada, Parvata, the Valikhilya Rishis, those other Rishis known under the names of Prabhasas, the Sikatas, the Ghritapas, the Somavayavyas, the Vaiswanaras, Marichipas, the Akrishtas, the Hansas, those born of Fire, the Vanaprasthas, and the Prasnis. All of them lived in obedience to Brahman. The foremost of the Danavas, however, setting at night the commands of the Grandsire, and yielding to wrath and covetousness, began to cause the destruction of righteousness. They were Hiranyakasipu, and Hiranyaksha, and Virochana, and Samvara, and Viprachitti, and Prahlada, and Namuchi, and Vali. These and many other Daityas and Danavas, transcending all restraints of duty and religion, sported and took delight in all kinds of wicked acts. Regarding themselves equal in point of birth with the gods, they began to challenge them and the sages of pure behaviour. They never did any good to the other creatures of the universe or showed compassion for any of them. Disregarding the three well-known means, they began to persecute and afflict all creatures by wielding only the rod of chastisement. Indeed, those foremost of Asuras, filled with pride, forsook every friendly intercourse with other creatures. Then the divine Brahman, accompanied by the regenerate sages, proceeded to a delightful summit of Himavat, extending for a hundred Yojanas in area, adorned with diverse kinds of jewels and gems, and upon whose surface the stars seemed to rest like so many lotuses on a lake. On that prince of mountains, O sire, overgrown with forests of flowering trees, that foremost of the gods, viz., Brahman, stayed for some time for accomplishing the business of the world. After the lapse of a thousand years, the puissant p. 363 lord made arrangements for a grand sacrifice according to the ordinances laid down in the scriptures. The sacrificial altar became adorned with Rishis skilled in sacrifice and competent to perform all acts appertaining thereto, with faggots of sacrificial fuel, and with blazing fires. And it looked exceedingly beautiful in consequence of the sacrificial plates and vessels all made of gold. All the foremost ones among the gods took their seats on it. The platform was further adorned with Sadasyas all of whom were high regenerate Rishis. I have heard from the Rishis that soon something very awful occurred in that sacrifice. It is heard that a creature sprang (from the sacrificial fire) scattering the flames around him, and whose splendour equalled that of the Moon himself when he rises in the firmament spangled with stars. His complexion was dark like that of the petals of the blue lotus. His teeth were keen. His stomach was lean. His stature was tall. He seemed to be irresistible and possessed of exceeding energy. Upon the appearance of that being, the earth trembled. The Ocean became agitated with high billows and awful eddies. Meteors foreboding great disasters shot through the sky. The branches of trees began to fall down. All the points of the compass became unquiet. Inauspicious winds began to blow. All creatures began to quake with fear every moment. Beholding that awful agitation of the universe and that Being sprung from the sacrificial fire, the Grandsire said these words unto the great Rishis, the gods, and the Gandharvas. This Being was thought of by me. Possessed of great energy, his name is Asi (sword or scimitar). For the protection of the world and the destruction of the enemies of the gods, I have created him. That being then, abandoning the form he had first assumed, took the shape of a sword of great splendour, highly polished, sharp-edged, risen like the all-destructive Being at the end of the Yuga. Then Brahman made over that sharp weapon to the blue-throated Rudra who has for the device on his banner the foremost of bulls, for enabling him to put down irreligion and sin. At this, the divine Rudra of immeasurable soul, praised by the great Rishis, took up that sword and assumed a different shape. Putting forth four arms, he became so tall that though standing on the earth he touched the very sun with his head. With eyes turned upwards and with every limb extended wide, he began to vomit flames of fire from his mouth. Assuming diverse complexions such as blue and white and red, wearing a black deer-skin studded with stars of gold, he bore on his forehead a third eye that resembled the sun in splendour. His two other eyes, one of which was black and the other tawny, shone very brightly. The divine Mahadeva, the bearer of the Sula, the tearer of Bhaga's eyes, taking up the sword whose splendour resembled that of the all-destructive Yuga fire, and wielding a large shield with three high bosses which looked like a mass of dark clouds adorned with flashes of lightning, began to perform diverse kinds of evolutions. Possessed of great prowess, he began to whirl the sword in the sky, desirous of an encounter. Loud were the roars he uttered, and awful the sound of his laughter. Indeed, O Bharata, the form then assumed by Rudra was exceedingly terrible. Hearing that Rudra had assumed that form for achieving fierce deeds, the Danavas, filled with joy, began to come towards him with great speed, showering huge p. 364 rocks upon him as they come, and blazing brands of wood, and diverse kinds of terrible weapons made of iron and each endued with the sharpness of a razor. The Danava host, however, beholding that foremost of all beings, the indestructible Rudra, swelling with might, became stupefied and began to tremble. Although Rudra was alone and single-handed, yet so quickly did he move on the field of battle with the sword in his arm that the Asuras thought there were a thousand similar Rudras battling with them. Tearing and piercing and afflicting and cutting and lopping off and grinding down, the great god moved with celerity among the thick masses of his foes like forest conflagration amid heaps of dry grass spread around. The mighty Asuras, broken by the god with the whirls of his sword, with arms and thighs and chests cut off and pierced, and with heads severed from their trunks, began to fall down on the earth. Others among the Danavas, afflicted with strokes of the sword, broke and fled in all directions, cheering one another as they fled. Some penetrated into the bowels of the earth; others got under the cover of mountains, Some went upwards; others entered the depths of the sea. During the progress of that dreadful and fierce battle, the earth became miry with flesh and blood and horrible sights presented themselves on every side. Strewn with the fallen bodies of Danavas covered with blood, the earth looked as if overspread with mountain summits overgrown with Kinsukas. Drenched with gore, the earth looked exceedingly beautiful, like a fair-complexioned lady intoxicated with alcohol and attired in crimson robes. Having slain the Danavas and re-established Righteousness on earth, the auspicious Rudra cast off his awful form and assumed his own beneficent shape. Then all the Rishis and all the celestials adored that god of gods with loud acclamations wishing him victory. The divine Rudra, after this, gave the sword, that protector of religion, dyed with the blood of Danavas, unto Vishnu with due adorations. Vishnu gave it unto Marichi. The divine Marichi gave it unto all the great Rishis. The latter gave it to Vasava. Vasava gave it to the Regents of the world. The Regents, O son, gave that large sword to Manu the son of Surya. At the time, of giving it unto Manu, they said, 'Thou art the lord of all men. Protect all creatures with this sword containing religion within its womb. Duly meting out chastisement unto those that have transgressed the barriers of virtue for the sake of the body or the mind, they should be protected conformably to the ordinances but never according to caprice. Some should be punished with wordy rebukes, and with fines and forfeitures. Loss of limb or death should never be inflicted for slight reasons. These punishments, consisting of wordy rebukes as their first, are regarded as so many forms of the sword. These are the shapes that the sword assumes in consequence of the transgressions of persons under the protection (of the king). 1 In time Manu installed his own son Kshupa in the sovereignty of all creatures, and gave him the sword for their protection. From Kshupa it was taken by Ikshvaku, and from Ikshvaku by Pururavas. From Pururavas it was taken by Ayus, and from Ayus by Nahusha. From Nahusha it was taken by Yayati, and p. 365 from Yayati by Puru. From Puru it was taken by Amurtarya, From Amurtarya it descended to the royal Bhumisaya. From Bhumisaya it was taken by Dushmanta's son Bharata. From Bharata, O monarch, it was taken by the righteous Ailavila. From Ailavila it was taken by king Dhundumara. From Dhundumara it was taken by Kamvoja, and from Kamvoja it was taken by Muchukunda, From Muchukunda it was taken by Marutta, and from Marutta by Raivata. From Raivata it was taken by Yuvanaswa, and from Yuvanaswa by Raghu. From Raghu it was taken by the valiant Harinaswa. From Harinaswa the sword was taken by Sunaka and from Sunaka by the righteous-souled Usinara. From the last it was taken by the Bhojas and the Yadavas. From the Yadus it was taken by Sivi. From Sivi it descended to Pratardana. From Pratardana it was received by Ashtaka, and from Ashtaka by Prishadaswa. From Prishadaswa it was received by Bharadwaja, and from the last by Drona. After Drona it was taken by Kripa. From Kripa that best of swords has been obtained by thee with thy brothers. The constellation under which the sword was born is Krittika. Agni is its deity, and Rohini is its Gotra. 1 Rudra is its high preceptor. The sword has eight names which are not generally known. Listen to me as I mention them to you. If one mentions these, O son of Pandu, one may always win victory. Those names then are Asi, Vaisasana, Khadga, sharp-edged, difficult of acquisition, Sirgarbha, victory, and protector of righteousness. Of all weapons, O son of Madravati, the sword is the foremost. The Puranas truly declare that it was first wielded by Mahadeva. As regards the bow, again, O chastiser of foes, it was Prithu who first created it. It was with the aid of this weapon that that son of Vena, while he governed the earth virtuously for many years, milked her of crops and grain in profusion. It behoveth thee, O son of Madri, to regard what the Rishis have said, as conclusive proof. All persons skilled in battle should worship the sword. I have now told thee truly the first portion of thy query, in detail, about the origin and creation of the sword, O bull of Bharata's race! By listening to this excellent story of the origin of the sword, a man succeeds in winning fame in this world and eternal felicity in the next.'" The Mahabharata Book 12: Santi Parva Kisari Mohan Ganguli, tr. [1883-1896] http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m12/m12a165.htm

Apart from the obvious basic stretching you can do, I find that hindu squats (baithka) can strengthen your lower back, if you keep good form throughout the excercise. Also training with weights correctly can strengthen your lower back. BUT training with weights good form is an absolute essential throughout the movement otherwise you can damage your lower back. General good posture throughout the day can i.e. keeping your back straight and head inline with torso can make your body use-to a straight backed position. If you can't be bothered to do any of that sit against a wall, or if you are willing to damage your body to obtain higher spiritual states then keep the pain as long as you can and use the pain to focus upon waheguru, u will get some mad concentration going if your hard ALso just to add another excercise to help back - hindu push up this you do by starting off ina normal push up mode and then raise your arse into the air so your body is a V and your head between your hands then move your head upwards looking straight ahead whilst your backside is lowered to the ground thus arching your back.

I suppose it depends on what you want. And how badly you want it. This is where i suppose reasoning comes in. Through correct reasoning the strangeness of the world is apparent and shaktee is gained from thinking about the world in a correct way. The more you reject the more shaktee you get. The way in which I use the word rejection is not as in forest recluse way, but a subtle rejection of any external gain, internally. So a person analysing his own state gives himself the gift of shaktee to dive deeper into the depths of his mind and unearth more hidden gems. You write in your introductory post whether people want to get closer to God or just get a buzz, i'd say it depends on how deep they want to go into themselves, and how much fear of god (he is too big) they are willing to sustain, there are numerous demons to overcome to get the treasures it depends on how good a warrior you inherently are or how hard your willing to train. In attempt to answer 2 - i don't think anyone has any pure virtues they may have for a little while but as long as you identify with your body those virtues are tainted. To say that I have a virtue is a adharam because in reality i ain't got s**t. For a normal person who does not wish to pursue immersion in the formless he can say he has virtue and its true- in accordance with dharam - if he is virtuous, but someone who aim is different it is a gunah to say he has virtue when he spends time praising the cause of all things, it would make him a hypocrite. Whether you have virtue depends on who you are and what you are doing and where you want to be. Q 4 is interesting. The mind is the door through which you can have his darshan. My view is that when people talk about spirituality they mean a specific mental conditioning. The mind is the site of a great war - the Devas and Asura's battling it out for eternity. If the mind cannot do the same thing repetitiously that is because its the nature of the mind not to focus on one thing. So the mind cannot judge God? This for me is the crux of the matter, how do we mould the mind to become something else and not make judgements about something the outward mind can have no conception of. Inwardness is the beggining further i can't say, except that constant effort and grace must have something to do with it.

I'll have a bash at this from my limited intellecct. Using psychological terminolgy the karan sareer could be the subconscious. The seeds of all the karma's you will do are contained in it. Suksham sareer is your normal consciousness or how you are feeling. How you are feeling is due to past actions that have been harvested and from the harvest the new seeds are placed in the karan sareer. These seeds are very subtle, so every thought you have, causes action that produces a seed, the emotional intensity of the thought determines how much the seed will grow, or how strong the effect will be. These thoughts and the intensity of them are in turn dtermined by the karan sareer. In reality everything is a continuum of thought just varied degrees. Karan sareer is the most subtle so without abhiaas almost impossible to have a glimpse. As the subtlety decreases they become more evident to our gross minds, physical results such as injury being the most evident. i can guess to say the Karan sareer is also where man can have a glimpse of his past lives as the subconsciouss is the storehouse of all actions waiting to be actualised. These are just my musings please forgive anything wrong i've said.

I heard another explanation where Adam would be the human mind, his expulsion from eden is when he begins to think. When he thinks the world is created. The world is characterised by Iblis/Satan who does not accept Adam as a manifestation of the divine and just believes the sensory outer world to be true and also angels that are thoughts which raise your mind to his door. Or to the emptiness viraan. Original sin is i suppose the state of fallen man when you begin to think and put into the cycle of subconscious vasana's - thoughts - karma. Once in this cycle you are fallen man, as long as you live you will be impure, only through his grace and only he can forgive your faults so you better start praying otherwise your sunk. I don't really agree with this " The tree of the nervous system bears many enjoyable fruits, or sensations of sight, sound, smell, taste, and touch. In these, man may rightfully indulge; but he was forbidden the experience of sex, the 'apple' at the center of the bodily garden" My view is that impurity is any thoughts outward going, once you become temporarliy lost (intoxicated) in a sight or sound you taint your soul with impurity, the soul and mental apparatus are in effct one, but outwards movement makes the illusion of evolustion of mind. Quotes like the above can lead to frustration because simple abstinence from sex wont do anything for you. Kundalini is more subtle than subtle talking about it grossens it and in my view can be dangerous and misleading.

In my opinion equality in a society would mean each individual acts according to his inherent capabilities. Inequality is where a person does not understand his own strengths and weaknesses and therefore acts in a detrimental way towards other people. Also I believe Karma must play a role in the way we look at equality. If we accept that certain people will have strong tendencies to act in particular ways due to past thought patterns, then we see people as equal because each person does what he or she is 'programmed' to do. ( for clarification - This program is not set in stone but depends on how deep the rut is, i don't believe that we should make no effort to do anything because its all pre-planned) In the light of my understanding the Guru's accepted the variety of human differences as the spice of Akaal's Lila, and to interfere with this spice of life is a grave crime against mankind. The breaking of the Brahman's Hedgemony on spiritual knowledge did not lead to the fact that each an every man became enlightened

Below is an excerpt from Kahlil Gibran's The Prophet it can be read in full at http://www.columbia.edu/%7Egm84/gibtable.html On Joy & Sorrow Then a woman said, "Speak to us of Joy and Sorrow." And he answered: Your joy is your sorrow unmasked. And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears. And how else can it be? The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain. Is not the cup that hold your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter's oven? And is not the lute that soothes your spirit, the very wood that was hollowed with knives? When you are joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it is only that which has given you sorrow that is giving you joy. When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight. Some of you say, "Joy is greater than sorrow," and others say, "Nay, sorrow is the greater." But I say unto you, they are inseparable. Together they come, and when one sits alone with you at your board, remember that the other is asleep upon your bed. Verily you are suspended like scales between your sorrow and your joy. Only when you are empty are you at standstill and balanced. When the treasure-keeper lifts you to weigh his gold and his silver, needs must your joy or your sorrow rise or fall. On Pain And a woman spoke, saying, "Tell us of Pain." And he said: Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding. Even as the stone of the fruit must break, that its heart may stand in the sun, so must you know pain. And could you keep your heart in wonder at the daily miracles of your life, your pain would not seem less wondrous than your joy; And you would accept the seasons of your heart, even as you have always accepted the seasons that pass over your fields. And you would watch with serenity through the winters of your grief. Much of your pain is self-chosen. It is the bitter potion by which the physician within you heals your sick self. Therefore trust the physician, and drink his remedy in silence and tranquillity: For his hand, though heavy and hard, is guided by the tender hand of the Unseen, And the cup he brings, though it burn your lips, has been fashioned of the clay which the Potter has moistened with His own sacred tears. On Love Then said Almitra, "Speak to us of Love." And he raised his head and looked upon the people, and there fell a stillness upon them. And with a great voice he said: When love beckons to you follow him, Though his ways are hard and steep. And when his wings enfold you yield to him, Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you. And when he speaks to you believe in him, Though his voice may shatter your dreams as the north wind lays waste the garden. For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you. Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning. Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun, So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to the earth. Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself. He threshes you to make you naked. He sifts you to free you from your husks. He grinds you to whiteness. He kneads you until you are pliant; And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may become sacred bread for God's sacred feast. All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of your heart, and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life's heart. But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure, Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor, Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears. Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself. Love possesses not nor would it be possessed; For love is sufficient unto love. When you love you should not say, "God is in my heart," but rather, I am in the heart of God." And think not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. Love has no other desire but to fulfil itself. But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires: To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night. To know the pain of too much tenderness. To be wounded by your own understanding of love; And to bleed willingly and joyfully. To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day of loving; To rest at the noon hour and meditate love's ecstasy; To return home at eventide with gratitude; And then to sleep with a prayer for the beloved in your heart and a song of praise upon your lips.

The difference is that Israel has a much larger arsenal and much more destructive weapons and also support from the powerful west. Whereas hezbollah rockets are inferior and maybe kill a handful of innocent people Israel are bombing a whole nation into the stone age. I think you have to agree that is a big difference. I am not defending hezbollah, they are a bunch of idiots but things should be kept in perspective.

It really is a disgrace what is happening in the middle east, what makes it all the more sickening is the majority of people (sheeps) swallow the propaganda fed to them. http://www.medialens.org/alerts/

Selling Spirituality: The Silent Takeover of Religion Jeremy Carrette, Richard King Anyone who has heard of deepak chopra, osho etc. should read this book, it uncovers many of the underlying assumptions we as people living in a consumerist society make of "spirituality" - how orginal traditions are distorted and repackaged to provide a soothing balm to the overworked executive.

Hey dudes, could you please expand on the statement you made. Having other peoples views explained to me helps me, myself, understand things better. Thanks

why do you care so much what people think of you? There is no one way of being a Singh everyone is different. Find your own way, are you that much of a Kid that you need people to tell you everything. I was surprised you didn't include how a Singh should wipe his arse. If you are so worried about how you look, or how you should be a "singh" maybe you should look at yourself to see if you are happy with yourself.

no need to apologise, if you write something, then try to back it up, or write why you think that. Your view is valid as mine or anyone else's, if you think that what i wrote is perverted, thats fine, but to use such a strong word, you must justify or try to explain why you think that. I think we must self-evaluate, that is why this forum is useful as we can write things we normally would not say, and use reactions from other people to re-assess our thoughts, in this way we can self-evaluate ourselves.

yeah i got all 3 parts, it was an interesting read, it did change the way i thought about things. The biggest idea i took from the book was the subjective-ness of his thought, if that makes any sense. I would be cautious to recommend it to anyone, you definetly have to have an open mind to benefit from it, and some knowledge of tantra would help.

PLease tell me what you disagreed with, maybe i can learn something, i am a sikh so i never stop learning. what did you find perverted in my words, did all this sexual talk disoncert you, could you feel kaam "pricking" you with his arrows. Lets be sensible geezer we are not equally blessed with the grace of akaal purakh, some of us need to pull ourselves out of the muck of sansar by facing up to some distastefulness before we reach the stage of the pure lotus flower emerging from the slime of the world.