amardeep

@Satkirin_Kaur
The longest lasting leader the Sikhs have ever had was a female! Mata Sahib Devi ruled the Sikhs for about 40 years (1708-1747).  This happened before the introduction of 'western values' to the Indian subcontinent meaning that the Sikhs followed a female as leader from within its orthodoxy.... There are many examples to give but people here can't be bothered because you only read what you want to read and otherwise blow Things out of proportions.
When you wrote those sarcastic remarks trying to emulate the views of some people here, - you ended up pissing them off.. This clearly suggests that you did not represent and reflect their view point. Otherwise they would'n be pissed off if what you wrote truly reflected their view points..
Yes there is a clear majority of men being mentioned and portrayed in Sikh literature,- this reflects the literary traditions of the time GLOBALLY. You can't blame this on Sikhi. The fact that Bhai Gurdas writes that females are equal to men in virtue, action and wisdom clearly shows that this is the stance of Sikhi! You might be able to find some tuks you take out of context to say otherwise, but then Again you are just reflecting your own wrong readings of Sikh literature.
Your problem is that you mix everything up, - theory, practice, literature and real life and make connections that are not supposed to be connected.

Lets have a serious discussion you and me, - bring up all the relevant points one at a time, and lets see what Sikhi says on this. The only requirement is that you READ WHAT I WRITE and contemplate it without going into extreme whataboutery (ie. what about this, what about that bla bla)..

Make a new thread and lets go through each question one by one.
 

@Satkirin_Kaur
The longest lasting leader the Sikhs have ever had was a female! Mata Sahib Devi ruled the Sikhs for about 40 years (1708-1747).  This happened before the introduction of 'western values' to the Indian subcontinent meaning that the Sikhs followed a female as leader from within its orthodoxy.... There are many examples to give but people here can't be bothered because you only read what you want to read and otherwise blow Things out of proportions.
When you wrote those sarcastic remarks trying to emulate the views of some people here, - you ended up pissing them off.. This clearly suggests that you did not represent and reflect their view point. Otherwise they would'n be pissed off if what you wrote truly reflected their view points..
Yes there is a clear majority of men being mentioned and portrayed in Sikh literature,- this reflects the literary traditions of the time GLOBALLY. You can't blame this on Sikhi. The fact that Bhai Gurdas writes that females are equal to men in virtue, action and wisdom clearly shows that this is the stance of Sikhi! You might be able to find some tuks you take out of context to say otherwise, but then Again you are just reflecting your own wrong readings of Sikh literature.
Your problem is that you mix everything up, - theory, practice, literature and real life and make connections that are not supposed to be connected.

Lets have a serious discussion you and me, - bring up all the relevant points one at a time, and lets see what Sikhi says on this. The only requirement is that you READ WHAT I WRITE and contemplate it without going into extreme whataboutery (ie. what about this, what about that bla bla)..

Make a new thread and lets go through each question one by one.
 

@Satkirin_Kaur
The longest lasting leader the Sikhs have ever had was a female! Mata Sahib Devi ruled the Sikhs for about 40 years (1708-1747).  This happened before the introduction of 'western values' to the Indian subcontinent meaning that the Sikhs followed a female as leader from within its orthodoxy.... There are many examples to give but people here can't be bothered because you only read what you want to read and otherwise blow Things out of proportions.
When you wrote those sarcastic remarks trying to emulate the views of some people here, - you ended up pissing them off.. This clearly suggests that you did not represent and reflect their view point. Otherwise they would'n be pissed off if what you wrote truly reflected their view points..
Yes there is a clear majority of men being mentioned and portrayed in Sikh literature,- this reflects the literary traditions of the time GLOBALLY. You can't blame this on Sikhi. The fact that Bhai Gurdas writes that females are equal to men in virtue, action and wisdom clearly shows that this is the stance of Sikhi! You might be able to find some tuks you take out of context to say otherwise, but then Again you are just reflecting your own wrong readings of Sikh literature.
Your problem is that you mix everything up, - theory, practice, literature and real life and make connections that are not supposed to be connected.

Lets have a serious discussion you and me, - bring up all the relevant points one at a time, and lets see what Sikhi says on this. The only requirement is that you READ WHAT I WRITE and contemplate it without going into extreme whataboutery (ie. what about this, what about that bla bla)..

Make a new thread and lets go through each question one by one.
 

@Satkirin_Kaur
The longest lasting leader the Sikhs have ever had was a female! Mata Sahib Devi ruled the Sikhs for about 40 years (1708-1747).  This happened before the introduction of 'western values' to the Indian subcontinent meaning that the Sikhs followed a female as leader from within its orthodoxy.... There are many examples to give but people here can't be bothered because you only read what you want to read and otherwise blow Things out of proportions.
When you wrote those sarcastic remarks trying to emulate the views of some people here, - you ended up pissing them off.. This clearly suggests that you did not represent and reflect their view point. Otherwise they would'n be pissed off if what you wrote truly reflected their view points..
Yes there is a clear majority of men being mentioned and portrayed in Sikh literature,- this reflects the literary traditions of the time GLOBALLY. You can't blame this on Sikhi. The fact that Bhai Gurdas writes that females are equal to men in virtue, action and wisdom clearly shows that this is the stance of Sikhi! You might be able to find some tuks you take out of context to say otherwise, but then Again you are just reflecting your own wrong readings of Sikh literature.
Your problem is that you mix everything up, - theory, practice, literature and real life and make connections that are not supposed to be connected.

Lets have a serious discussion you and me, - bring up all the relevant points one at a time, and lets see what Sikhi says on this. The only requirement is that you READ WHAT I WRITE and contemplate it without going into extreme whataboutery (ie. what about this, what about that bla bla)..

Make a new thread and lets go through each question one by one.
 

Gurpreet Kaur: Wonderful explanations. Thank you for that.

Check it out at 08.50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cokjBUMdxRI

I think you are living in your own little world. People have told you over and over again not to put things in their mouths. You connect things that are not connected and then use that as an argument against people. I think its called a straw man in english. You build up a narrative in your own head and then argue with people about why they feel a certain way. But they actually dont feel that way!
 
When people here have respect for samprdayas it is NOT because of the way they view women.. thats YOUR take on it because you seem to center your life on feminism.. So if I tell you im into the samprdayas, then you will find something you dont agree with and make a fuss and drama about me being into the samprdayas due to this one female statement only!! Its bloody weird man and you need to stop it!  People here respect the samprdayas because they reflect a pre-colonial disposition of Sikhi with a heavy regard on oral tradition...... NOBODY HAS MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT WOMEN!! yet you keep hammering on and on and on about them....The puratan samprdayas dont even follow the old rahitname, - they have their own oral traditions which they follow.
Like I said, - you dont understand what people are writing, nor do they understand what you are writing.. bloody kinder garden man!! When people showed you the tuks of Sri Guru Amar Das on women, they did'n mean to say that The Satguru talks ill of women.. They were saying "if you use this kind of arguments against Sri Dasam Granth then why dont you apply the same logic to the Guru Granth Sahib".. Its a way of showing how illogical you are.. Yet you read it as the guys saying Guru Amar Das looked down on women...
And now you're making connections between Rahitanme and Dasam Granth....SERIOSLY??? wtf???? The rehitname for the most part are 2-3 pages long... The Dasam Granth is 1300+ pages long... Stop making weird analogies... I dont know if you have some sort of OCD or something but if you do, please let us know... This is getting really tiring.. Everyone here is tired of having to explain themselves over and over again as well as having to defend themselves of weird allegations you keep making, -putting words in their mouths etc....
 
Pappiman says weird shit at times, - all of us laugh at it from time to time and consider those views as representing only himself.. Yet you take it and blow it out of proportions and make it sound like pappiman is the sole global ambassador of SIkhi - everything he says is true and law!
Give it a rest man..

Check it out at 08.50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cokjBUMdxRI

Check it out at 08.50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cokjBUMdxRI

Haha I love reading my old posts here. Window back in time.

Interesting. Verse 211 begins at the bottom - Durjan Dal dandhan.
http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&p=78
 
 

Haha I love reading my old posts here. Window back in time.

hmm I can't remember what else it covered. I was quite young and western Sikh writings were new to me at the time. Maybe I should read it again.
Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha wrote a 100+ page book on Braj Bhasha prosody and how to write poetry using chands and meters. In it he uses the Dasam Granth quite a lot as examples of how to write poetry in the different meters. He quotes extensively from the Chaubis Avatar etc. So he might not have considered it Guru krit but he did respect it in terms of poetic value.

I think you are living in your own little world. People have told you over and over again not to put things in their mouths. You connect things that are not connected and then use that as an argument against people. I think its called a straw man in english. You build up a narrative in your own head and then argue with people about why they feel a certain way. But they actually dont feel that way!
 
When people here have respect for samprdayas it is NOT because of the way they view women.. thats YOUR take on it because you seem to center your life on feminism.. So if I tell you im into the samprdayas, then you will find something you dont agree with and make a fuss and drama about me being into the samprdayas due to this one female statement only!! Its bloody weird man and you need to stop it!  People here respect the samprdayas because they reflect a pre-colonial disposition of Sikhi with a heavy regard on oral tradition...... NOBODY HAS MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT WOMEN!! yet you keep hammering on and on and on about them....The puratan samprdayas dont even follow the old rahitname, - they have their own oral traditions which they follow.
Like I said, - you dont understand what people are writing, nor do they understand what you are writing.. bloody kinder garden man!! When people showed you the tuks of Sri Guru Amar Das on women, they did'n mean to say that The Satguru talks ill of women.. They were saying "if you use this kind of arguments against Sri Dasam Granth then why dont you apply the same logic to the Guru Granth Sahib".. Its a way of showing how illogical you are.. Yet you read it as the guys saying Guru Amar Das looked down on women...
And now you're making connections between Rahitanme and Dasam Granth....SERIOSLY??? wtf???? The rehitname for the most part are 2-3 pages long... The Dasam Granth is 1300+ pages long... Stop making weird analogies... I dont know if you have some sort of OCD or something but if you do, please let us know... This is getting really tiring.. Everyone here is tired of having to explain themselves over and over again as well as having to defend themselves of weird allegations you keep making, -putting words in their mouths etc....
 
Pappiman says weird shit at times, - all of us laugh at it from time to time and consider those views as representing only himself.. Yet you take it and blow it out of proportions and make it sound like pappiman is the sole global ambassador of SIkhi - everything he says is true and law!
Give it a rest man..

Rattan Singh Jaggi in his Dasam Granth PHD from the 1960s (he did'n believe in Dasam Granth as Guru krit at the time) did a comparative analysis of the three chandi compositions (and also the Chaubis Avatar if I remember correctly). He put the Sanskrit and Dasam Granth Braj Basha granths side by side to see how loyal and accurate the translations were. His conclusion was that the author had editorially omitted all forms of theological sections seen in the original and instead focused heavily on translating the parts that deal with yudh. In this way, many large sections that deal with theology are not to be found in the Braj translation.
What I make of this is that the purpose of the different banis of Sri Dasam Granth is in no way an attempt to confess any faith but rather to stirr the nerves of the readers and boil their blood as a preperation for Dharam Yudh.

Rattan Singh Jaggi in his Dasam Granth PHD from the 1960s (he did'n believe in Dasam Granth as Guru krit at the time) did a comparative analysis of the three chandi compositions (and also the Chaubis Avatar if I remember correctly). He put the Sanskrit and Dasam Granth Braj Basha granths side by side to see how loyal and accurate the translations were. His conclusion was that the author had editorially omitted all forms of theological sections seen in the original and instead focused heavily on translating the parts that deal with yudh. In this way, many large sections that deal with theology are not to be found in the Braj translation.
What I make of this is that the purpose of the different banis of Sri Dasam Granth is in no way an attempt to confess any faith but rather to stirr the nerves of the readers and boil their blood as a preperation for Dharam Yudh.

I think you are living in your own little world. People have told you over and over again not to put things in their mouths. You connect things that are not connected and then use that as an argument against people. I think its called a straw man in english. You build up a narrative in your own head and then argue with people about why they feel a certain way. But they actually dont feel that way!
 
When people here have respect for samprdayas it is NOT because of the way they view women.. thats YOUR take on it because you seem to center your life on feminism.. So if I tell you im into the samprdayas, then you will find something you dont agree with and make a fuss and drama about me being into the samprdayas due to this one female statement only!! Its bloody weird man and you need to stop it!  People here respect the samprdayas because they reflect a pre-colonial disposition of Sikhi with a heavy regard on oral tradition...... NOBODY HAS MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT WOMEN!! yet you keep hammering on and on and on about them....The puratan samprdayas dont even follow the old rahitname, - they have their own oral traditions which they follow.
Like I said, - you dont understand what people are writing, nor do they understand what you are writing.. bloody kinder garden man!! When people showed you the tuks of Sri Guru Amar Das on women, they did'n mean to say that The Satguru talks ill of women.. They were saying "if you use this kind of arguments against Sri Dasam Granth then why dont you apply the same logic to the Guru Granth Sahib".. Its a way of showing how illogical you are.. Yet you read it as the guys saying Guru Amar Das looked down on women...
And now you're making connections between Rahitanme and Dasam Granth....SERIOSLY??? wtf???? The rehitname for the most part are 2-3 pages long... The Dasam Granth is 1300+ pages long... Stop making weird analogies... I dont know if you have some sort of OCD or something but if you do, please let us know... This is getting really tiring.. Everyone here is tired of having to explain themselves over and over again as well as having to defend themselves of weird allegations you keep making, -putting words in their mouths etc....
 
Pappiman says weird shit at times, - all of us laugh at it from time to time and consider those views as representing only himself.. Yet you take it and blow it out of proportions and make it sound like pappiman is the sole global ambassador of SIkhi - everything he says is true and law!
Give it a rest man..

Fantastic man!

It is also good that they are reaching out to the 3HO community to bring them closer to Sikhi.

I think you are living in your own little world. People have told you over and over again not to put things in their mouths. You connect things that are not connected and then use that as an argument against people. I think its called a straw man in english. You build up a narrative in your own head and then argue with people about why they feel a certain way. But they actually dont feel that way!
 
When people here have respect for samprdayas it is NOT because of the way they view women.. thats YOUR take on it because you seem to center your life on feminism.. So if I tell you im into the samprdayas, then you will find something you dont agree with and make a fuss and drama about me being into the samprdayas due to this one female statement only!! Its bloody weird man and you need to stop it!  People here respect the samprdayas because they reflect a pre-colonial disposition of Sikhi with a heavy regard on oral tradition...... NOBODY HAS MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT WOMEN!! yet you keep hammering on and on and on about them....The puratan samprdayas dont even follow the old rahitname, - they have their own oral traditions which they follow.
Like I said, - you dont understand what people are writing, nor do they understand what you are writing.. bloody kinder garden man!! When people showed you the tuks of Sri Guru Amar Das on women, they did'n mean to say that The Satguru talks ill of women.. They were saying "if you use this kind of arguments against Sri Dasam Granth then why dont you apply the same logic to the Guru Granth Sahib".. Its a way of showing how illogical you are.. Yet you read it as the guys saying Guru Amar Das looked down on women...
And now you're making connections between Rahitanme and Dasam Granth....SERIOSLY??? wtf???? The rehitname for the most part are 2-3 pages long... The Dasam Granth is 1300+ pages long... Stop making weird analogies... I dont know if you have some sort of OCD or something but if you do, please let us know... This is getting really tiring.. Everyone here is tired of having to explain themselves over and over again as well as having to defend themselves of weird allegations you keep making, -putting words in their mouths etc....
 
Pappiman says weird shit at times, - all of us laugh at it from time to time and consider those views as representing only himself.. Yet you take it and blow it out of proportions and make it sound like pappiman is the sole global ambassador of SIkhi - everything he says is true and law!
Give it a rest man..

I think you are living in your own little world. People have told you over and over again not to put things in their mouths. You connect things that are not connected and then use that as an argument against people. I think its called a straw man in english. You build up a narrative in your own head and then argue with people about why they feel a certain way. But they actually dont feel that way!
 
When people here have respect for samprdayas it is NOT because of the way they view women.. thats YOUR take on it because you seem to center your life on feminism.. So if I tell you im into the samprdayas, then you will find something you dont agree with and make a fuss and drama about me being into the samprdayas due to this one female statement only!! Its bloody weird man and you need to stop it!  People here respect the samprdayas because they reflect a pre-colonial disposition of Sikhi with a heavy regard on oral tradition...... NOBODY HAS MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT WOMEN!! yet you keep hammering on and on and on about them....The puratan samprdayas dont even follow the old rahitname, - they have their own oral traditions which they follow.
Like I said, - you dont understand what people are writing, nor do they understand what you are writing.. bloody kinder garden man!! When people showed you the tuks of Sri Guru Amar Das on women, they did'n mean to say that The Satguru talks ill of women.. They were saying "if you use this kind of arguments against Sri Dasam Granth then why dont you apply the same logic to the Guru Granth Sahib".. Its a way of showing how illogical you are.. Yet you read it as the guys saying Guru Amar Das looked down on women...
And now you're making connections between Rahitanme and Dasam Granth....SERIOSLY??? wtf???? The rehitname for the most part are 2-3 pages long... The Dasam Granth is 1300+ pages long... Stop making weird analogies... I dont know if you have some sort of OCD or something but if you do, please let us know... This is getting really tiring.. Everyone here is tired of having to explain themselves over and over again as well as having to defend themselves of weird allegations you keep making, -putting words in their mouths etc....
 
Pappiman says weird shit at times, - all of us laugh at it from time to time and consider those views as representing only himself.. Yet you take it and blow it out of proportions and make it sound like pappiman is the sole global ambassador of SIkhi - everything he says is true and law!
Give it a rest man..

Fantastic man!

I think you are living in your own little world. People have told you over and over again not to put things in their mouths. You connect things that are not connected and then use that as an argument against people. I think its called a straw man in english. You build up a narrative in your own head and then argue with people about why they feel a certain way. But they actually dont feel that way!
 
When people here have respect for samprdayas it is NOT because of the way they view women.. thats YOUR take on it because you seem to center your life on feminism.. So if I tell you im into the samprdayas, then you will find something you dont agree with and make a fuss and drama about me being into the samprdayas due to this one female statement only!! Its bloody weird man and you need to stop it!  People here respect the samprdayas because they reflect a pre-colonial disposition of Sikhi with a heavy regard on oral tradition...... NOBODY HAS MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT WOMEN!! yet you keep hammering on and on and on about them....The puratan samprdayas dont even follow the old rahitname, - they have their own oral traditions which they follow.
Like I said, - you dont understand what people are writing, nor do they understand what you are writing.. bloody kinder garden man!! When people showed you the tuks of Sri Guru Amar Das on women, they did'n mean to say that The Satguru talks ill of women.. They were saying "if you use this kind of arguments against Sri Dasam Granth then why dont you apply the same logic to the Guru Granth Sahib".. Its a way of showing how illogical you are.. Yet you read it as the guys saying Guru Amar Das looked down on women...
And now you're making connections between Rahitanme and Dasam Granth....SERIOSLY??? wtf???? The rehitname for the most part are 2-3 pages long... The Dasam Granth is 1300+ pages long... Stop making weird analogies... I dont know if you have some sort of OCD or something but if you do, please let us know... This is getting really tiring.. Everyone here is tired of having to explain themselves over and over again as well as having to defend themselves of weird allegations you keep making, -putting words in their mouths etc....
 
Pappiman says weird shit at times, - all of us laugh at it from time to time and consider those views as representing only himself.. Yet you take it and blow it out of proportions and make it sound like pappiman is the sole global ambassador of SIkhi - everything he says is true and law!
Give it a rest man..

Honestly Satkirin Kaur, I dont think you understand what people are writing to you. You seem to nitpick small things and you dont understand the arguments people use. Nor do they understand you... Thats why I keep reffering to you guys as kids in a kinder garden. Just loads of drama leading no where.

I came across this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jhujhar_Singh
 
And I wondered whether the names of the Sahibzade of Guru Gobind Singh has any form of political implications - an act of defiance so to speak. Is it possible that Guru Gobind Singh named his sons after the enemies of Aurangzeb? Are there any other warriors of history during the Mughal era who were named Zorawar Singh, Fateh Singh and Ajit Singh? Or is the above just a coincidence?