mahanpaapi

Dhan Guru Nanak Tuhi Nirankaar

Dhan Guru Nanak Tuhi Nirankaar

respected paapiman ji, regardless of what is truth or not, what right or not, i humbly suggest please try not carry and avoidable unnecessary negative karmic burden forward. BhagatSinghji, Sukritkaur ji, das ji and others are your well-wishers.
 
 

If you're genuinely looking for some Spiritual information for peace or willing to investigate the nature of Self, then I would suggest you the following. Otherwise, if your sole intention is to debate or prove your point or just fun then please carry on as you wish.
 
The good place to start learning about the real Sikhism is from "Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji". It is a Sikh scripture that is the 11th Guru of Sikhs, IT was given the authority/Guruship by the 10th Sikh Guru. Sikhs have 10 Gurus and it was only during the 10th Guru's time that a formal religion/group (Khalsa) was established by giving them a distinct identity because of that time's need. Before the 10th Guru, they were normally called Sikhs but with no distinct indentiy. The 10th Guru chose not to include his writtings in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
What I want to convey is: If you want to study something, then starting from a more gross form is not a good idea. So, again I suggest reading the source instead of just getting confused with personalized thinking of everyone around you. The reason is I say this because even in Sikhs there are different people who are not good spiritually, they are just like everyone else.
Recently Sikhs (like any other religion) have gone towards "Radical Interpretation" of their history and therefore going down the self-created-drain of darkness where there is always quarrel between this-vs-that. They just don't ever try to analyze the writings in Guru Granth Sahib Ji and just solely goes with interpretations that follows their point of view instead of the other way around.
You could see the following different groups within Sikhs these days.
Group-1: This is the most popular and could easily be traced on Internet. Religious youth are its main force. This group treats the history (after 1699 - Khalsa creation) as the sole indicator. This group claims that their Guru is Guru Granth Sahib Ji but they do not bother to seriously analyze the writing of Guru Granth Sahib Ji in the light in which it is written. They are so deeply concerned with the history after the creation of Khalsa (post 1699 or 1708) that they fail to see the history which took place between 1469 and 1699. They don't realize that they have neglected the history of 10 Gurus (around 230 years) and have just opted for the history of 10th Guru's last 9-10 years. They are just like other religious people who believe that their religion is the best. Group-2: This group mostly includes Scholars who have studied Guru Granth Sahib Ji deepy but from materialistic point of view. They are far better than the first group as they give importance to both the history periods. But their interpretation is more like Black-and-White world. They fail to see that the world where we live is domain of Laws and the teachings in Guru Granth Sahib Ji did not ask them to revolt against the Laws or reject the Laws. The teachings are merely pointing what is temporary vs what is permanent and how to get to the permanent while living in this world. But still they are far better than the first group. Group-3: Then comes a group who is a mixture of Group-1 and Group-2; sometimes they took one side and then sometimes took side of another group; not because they want to but they themselves are confused. Without the real Spiritual knowledge, they say things as per Group-2 but then eventually they will switch to Group-1. Group-4: This is the group who mostly have read the English transalations of Guru Granth Sahib Ji but not in the proper light. They try to reject all the rituals, traditions without understanding the real nature of this world. They are kind of more aggresive form of Group-2. They try to understand the higher concepts by dragging the higher concepts to their level of thinking instead of the other way around. They are always fighting with Group-1. Group-5: They are the rarest and rarely available on Internet. They do understand the real nature of this Universe and do understand that: "A person cannot live without performing the karmas. i.e one has to pick something out of the choices provided by the immediate environment.". They do see the core teachings of core Guru Granth Sahib Ji in proper light and therefore understand the purpose of Guru Granth Sahib Ji is to show us the proper path while living in this universe of Laws: Essence/Juice of all Scriptures (including Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji): The following are the core ideas of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji: 
Purity of Mind (Karma): This is the first requirement on spiritual path. Purity of mind is achieved by staying away from filthy and investing in good, honest actions. Why there is a need to pure the mind, and how the impure mind is hindrance to real happiness, and how to purify the mind etc. all these topics are including in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Concentration of Mind (Upsana): When mind is purified, then the desire for concentration arises in mind.  One-pointedness of Mind is achieved through worship with full concentration so that mind does not create ripples (thoughts) to disturb us. The concentration is achieved by devotion and worship. What is Concentration, why it is important, uses/mis-uses of concentration, importance of concentration, and how to achieve one - all these topics could be found in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Knowledge (Gyan): When the search of Self is done with purity and concentration of mind, one realises that the same God that once appeared as separate is one's own; in fact the entire universe appears to be one. There are various topics which could give one the real knowledge but in order to understand the real knowledge, one needs to be expert in the first 2 points and with the Kirpa of Guru (again explained in Guru Granth Sahib Ji).  Practically, the above mentioned juice could be obtained by (explained in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji)
Bodily Cleanliness (Isnan), Charity: Do charity to needy i.e Charity of money, goods, knowledge, time etc. Meditation  

Sometimes, when we ourselves don't have full knowledge we are unable to explain the concepts to other people. Before making any statement, we should have a full grasp of it .
By making certain statements, we indirectly give the opposite party a chance to do slander of important concepts and traditions.
In my observation, most people do not want to learn from a discussion but rather only desire a feeling of accomplishment, and stay unchanged from their thought patterns as dictated by their ego.

then that will their own inner calm not eternal and universal calm, as many of us are calm with relative things and relative times. 

thanks Ragmala, you are absolutely correct in this approach,  the eternal truth can only be verified by those who are beyond intellect-based scholarly evidential approach and are merged in The ONLY ONE, as you referred to Hazur Baba Nand Singh Ji Maharaj. we have to accept that any large of amount of intellect we may have, we still operate within the realm of Kalyug will interpret things within that realm only, once we accept our reality that inner calm will start to come in as most doubts, questions, etc will wither away.
 
 
 
 

This is in reply to material posted by a Guest in other thread. I will speak from personal experience and my personal beliefs in Guru Ji. I do not care about the authenticity of Charitropakhyan from historical perspective. Since, the Chaupai Sahib is well approved by all the Panth, Charitropakhyan comes along with it. Baba Nand Singh ji took the rehraas from Hazoor Sahib, which includes the dohra about 405 Charitars. If there was anything controversial , Baba Ji will not have approved it. That alone is enough for me personally to have faith in words of Guru and Sant Mahapurush, I will not  change that at any cost, no matter how many historical sources this and that you provide me.
There are two questions that I would like to address, and some questions that I would like to ask Anti-charitropakhyan people in the end.
1) How can Guru Gobind Singh Ji write erotica ?
2) If this is bani, why is it not read in front of sangat in diwans ?
 
Ans 1 : Can Guru Ji write erotica ? It really is the fault of those who view it as erotica. When they make such a statement, they are basically assuming that Guru ji is on the same mental level as them. They assume that Guru Ji is affected by Lust, that Guru Ji will get excited when they will write such erotic material or tales. They assume that Guru ji like us find the form of woman attractive or get desires just like them. These people view Guru as a normal human being with desires like them. They think that Guru ji finds this material sexy, just like they do. They are making all these assumption based on their human nature. They do not know anything about the nature of their Guru. They are judging Guru based on their limited experience of reality & bondage of sexual desires, and their own insecurity. Just like no one can know about God, no one can know about the Nature of Guru. We can only say he is beyond and beyond. Neo Singh often does a good job in describing such states of non-duality untouched complete awareness, as evident from Akal Ustat.
          Now I will give my own example. I went through medical school. I have touched breasts, I have done manual vaginal physical examinations with my hands touching each and every portion you can imagine, I have done Pap Smear examinations taking samples from the cervix, I have assisted in deliveries of babies and witnessed the tearing & all the emotional drama. I have witnessed the female form in its fullest, deepest & grossest state. I have dissected bodies, penises and vaginas.   Do you know what was the state of my mind during my exposure ?
                        It was neutral. There was no sexual feelings associated with anything at all. Instead the opposite happened. My libido had decreased to zero after doing those pap smears and handling crazy mothers during delivery. I was not excited at all at the sight of breast or female form.  I was just in that state. The atmosphere was very professional & such thoughts never arose. Thus, if someone like me , who is lowly nothing, can experience this state of non-attachment to female body & loss of libido after so much exposure, do you think that Guru Gobind Singh Ji  who is the creator himself, the one who created Maya will be affected when writing sexual descriptive tales.
 
Ans 2 :   If this is bani, why is it not read in front of sangat in diwans ?
Consider this bani as something which is for certain advanced Sikhs who hold positions of great responsibility spiritually and politically, or saints who need to learn the antics of great maya before they can reach their ultimate goal.  Only those who are medical students & Doctors are allowed to witness & perform the procedures on female body that I mentioned above. Not every joe blow can come in and touch a woman's breast. This is years of rigorous training for a transformation of a medical student into a doctor or surgeon. Think of medical student as someone who risen above sexual desires and surgeon as a brahmgyani who reached his final destination.
If you teach this bani to someone who has not even read Guru Granth Sahib or has not even risen above the Lust, it will definitely seem as erotica. And all these people are only projecting their own insecurities , fears and weaknesses through their anti-charitropakhyan stance.
 
3) Why so many graphic details ?
 When you want to bring a piece to life, details are included from a poetic standpoint.  The details of sex positions, the voices of bed squeaking, ejaculation of sperm, deceit, or others etc recreate the scene and bring it to life. If you are getting excited reading this then you have a lot of work to do. Obviously, this was not meant for everyone. If you are getting weak in your knees reading this obviously you need to do a lot of work. Go apply Guru Granth Sahib in your life before you get to reading these so called erotic tales.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

there is a fundamental difference between knowing through intellect (which people like me tend to know a lot through readings, listening and discussions but is devoid of any experience, and furthermore rely on that to express my religiosity), and believing (which people like me tend to equate with knowing albeit falsely, and it means one has experienced the shabad one way or other, jaap or grace),
for example, let us take a shabad,
".... Taati vao na lagai, tati vao na lagai jin Parbrahm sharanai, Chaugird hamare Ram ka, chaugird hamare Ram ka
Dukh lage na bhai,...,"
now we all know what it means intellectually and not only that we tell others whenever they have any problem to do that, however, only a naam abhiyasi who have done jaap of this shabad, will actually know and believe it through spiritual experience.

there is a fundamental difference between knowing through intellect (which people like me tend to know a lot through readings, listening and discussions but is devoid of any experience, and furthermore rely on that to express my religiosity), and believing (which people like me tend to equate with knowing albeit falsely, and it means one has experienced the shabad one way or other, jaap or grace),
for example, let us take a shabad,
".... Taati vao na lagai, tati vao na lagai jin Parbrahm sharanai, Chaugird hamare Ram ka, chaugird hamare Ram ka
Dukh lage na bhai,...,"
now we all know what it means intellectually and not only that we tell others whenever they have any problem to do that, however, only a naam abhiyasi who have done jaap of this shabad, will actually know and believe it through spiritual experience.

there is a fundamental difference between knowing through intellect (which people like me tend to know a lot through readings, listening and discussions but is devoid of any experience, and furthermore rely on that to express my religiosity), and believing (which people like me tend to equate with knowing albeit falsely, and it means one has experienced the shabad one way or other, jaap or grace),
for example, let us take a shabad,
".... Taati vao na lagai, tati vao na lagai jin Parbrahm sharanai, Chaugird hamare Ram ka, chaugird hamare Ram ka
Dukh lage na bhai,...,"
now we all know what it means intellectually and not only that we tell others whenever they have any problem to do that, however, only a naam abhiyasi who have done jaap of this shabad, will actually know and believe it through spiritual experience.

"Sargun nirgun nirankar sun smadhi aap
aapan kiya nanaka ape hi phr jaap"

"Sargun nirgun nirankar sun smadhi aap
aapan kiya nanaka ape hi phr jaap"

"Sargun nirgun nirankar sun smadhi aap
aapan kiya nanaka ape hi phr jaap"

"Sargun nirgun nirankar sun smadhi aap
aapan kiya nanaka ape hi phr jaap"

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj  seva maryada by Baba Isher Singh Nanaksar Kaleran
GuruGranthSahibJiSewa.pdf

you are on the Path, and avoid intellectual interpretation of your symptoms.
The love and devotion to God has twin basis, give what you have without expectation and contemplate on giving what you don't have, and you can test your love and devotion yourself, it if is real, by gradually following HIS Hukams.
 
 

you are on the Path, and avoid intellectual interpretation of your symptoms.
The love and devotion to God has twin basis, give what you have without expectation and contemplate on giving what you don't have, and you can test your love and devotion yourself, it if is real, by gradually following HIS Hukams.
 
 

you are on the Path, and avoid intellectual interpretation of your symptoms.
The love and devotion to God has twin basis, give what you have without expectation and contemplate on giving what you don't have, and you can test your love and devotion yourself, it if is real, by gradually following HIS Hukams.