singhuk

Reference: Life Stories of Great Sikh Saints by Dr.Hakam Singh
 
Bhul chuk maaf

This guy seems real genuine. He's definitely a listener and got the correct attitude for "everyone"...every race, gender, color and faith.
4 Sikhs I believe and half cabinet is female!

Sangat jee: Below is an inspiring story of a Singh, who gave away his entire life savings for seva. Please do read.
 

 
Reference:  Life Story of Sant Attar Singh ji by Harbans Singh Doabia
Bhul chuk maaf
 

Sometimes English translations just loose the essence of the shabad.
ਸਲੋਕ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੨  ॥
ਗੁਰੁ  ਕੁੰਜੀ  ਪਾਹੂ  ਨਿਵਲੁ  ਮਨੁ  ਕੋਠਾ  ਤਨੁ  ਛਤਿ  ॥
ਨਾਨਕ  ਗੁਰ  ਬਿਨੁ  ਮਨ  ਕਾ  ਤਾਕੁ  ਨ  ਉਘੜੈ  ਅਵਰ  ਨ  ਕੁੰਜੀ  ਹਥਿ  ॥੧॥
---------------------------
ਮਹਲਾ  ੨  ॥
ਸਿਫਤਿ  ਜਿਨਾ  ਕਉ  ਬਖਸੀਐ  ਸੇਈ  ਪੋਤੇਦਾਰ  ॥
ਕੁੰਜੀ  ਜਿਨ  ਕਉ  ਦਿਤੀਆ  ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ  ਮਿਲੇ  ਭੰਡਾਰ  ॥
ਜਹ  ਭੰਡਾਰੀ  ਹੂ  ਗੁਣ  ਨਿਕਲਹਿ  ਤੇ  ਕੀਅਹਿ  ਪਰਵਾਣੁ  ॥
ਨਦਰਿ  ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ  ਕਉ  ਨਾਨਕਾ  ਨਾਮੁ  ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ  ਨੀਸਾਣੁ  ॥੨॥
---------------------------
ਰਾਗੁ  ਗਉੜੀ  ਪੂਰਬੀ ਮਹਲਾ  ੫
ੴ  ਸਤਿਗੁਰ  ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ  ॥
ਕਿਨ  ਬਿਧਿ  ਮਿਲੈ  ਗੁਸਾਈ  ਮੇਰੇ  ਰਾਮ  ਰਾਇ  ॥
ਕੋਈ  ਐਸਾ  ਸੰਤੁ  ਸਹਜ  ਸੁਖਦਾਤਾ  ਮੋਹਿ  ਮਾਰਗੁ  ਦੇਇ  ਬਤਾਈ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥
ਅੰਤਰਿ  ਅਲਖੁ  ਨ  ਜਾਈ  ਲਖਿਆ  ਵਿਚਿ  ਪੜਦਾ  ਹਉਮੈ  ਪਾਈ  ॥
ਮਾਇਆ  ਮੋਹਿ  ਸਭੋ  ਜਗੁ  ਸੋਇਆ  ਇਹੁ  ਭਰਮੁ  ਕਹਹੁ  ਕਿਉ  ਜਾਈ  ॥੧॥
ਏਕਾ  ਸੰਗਤਿ  ਇਕਤੁ  ਗ੍ਰਿਹਿ  ਬਸਤੇ  ਮਿਲਿ  ਬਾਤ  ਨ  ਕਰਤੇ  ਭਾਈ  ॥
ਏਕ  ਬਸਤੁ  ਬਿਨੁ  ਪੰਚ  ਦੁਹੇਲੇ  ਓਹ  ਬਸਤੁ  ਅਗੋਚਰ  ਠਾਈ  ॥੨॥
ਜਿਸ  ਕਾ  ਗ੍ਰਿਹੁ  ਤਿਨਿ  ਦੀਆ  ਤਾਲਾ  ਕੁੰਜੀ  ਗੁਰ  ਸਉਪਾਈ  ॥
ਅਨਿਕ  ਉਪਾਵ  ਕਰੇ  ਨਹੀ  ਪਾਵੈ  ਬਿਨੁ  ਸਤਿਗੁਰ  ਸਰਣਾਈ  ॥੩॥
ਜਿਨ  ਕੇ  ਬੰਧਨ  ਕਾਟੇ  ਸਤਿਗੁਰ  ਤਿਨ  ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ  ਲਿਵ  ਲਾਈ  ॥
ਪੰਚ  ਜਨਾ  ਮਿਲਿ  ਮੰਗਲੁ  ਗਾਇਆ  ਹਰਿ  ਨਾਨਕ  ਭੇਦੁ  ਨ  ਭਾਈ  ॥੪॥
ਮੇਰੇ  ਰਾਮ  ਰਾਇ  ਇਨ  ਬਿਧਿ  ਮਿਲੈ  ਗੁਸਾਈ  ॥
ਸਹਜੁ  ਭਇਆ  ਭ੍ਰਮੁ  ਖਿਨ  ਮਹਿ  ਨਾਠਾ  ਮਿਲਿ  ਜੋਤੀ  ਜੋਤਿ  ਸਮਾਈ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ਦੂਜਾ  ॥੧॥੧੨੨॥
---------------------------------
HOW THE TRUE GURU IS FOUND: Aka: How to unlock what Guru is really telling us.
ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ  ਮਹਲੁ  ੧  ॥
ਧਾਤੁ  ਮਿਲੈ  ਫੁਨਿ  ਧਾਤੁ  ਕਉ  ਸਿਫਤੀ  ਸਿਫਤਿ  ਸਮਾਇ  ॥
ਲਾਲੁ  ਗੁਲਾਲੁ  ਗਹਬਰਾ  ਸਚਾ  ਰੰਗੁ  ਚੜਾਉ  ॥
ਸਚੁ  ਮਿਲੈ  ਸੰਤੋਖੀਆ  ਹਰਿ  ਜਪਿ  ਏਕੈ  ਭਾਇ  ॥੧॥
ਭਾਈ  ਰੇ  ਸੰਤ  ਜਨਾ  ਕੀ  ਰੇਣੁ  ॥
ਸੰਤ  ਸਭਾ  ਗੁਰੁ  ਪਾਈਐ  ਮੁਕਤਿ  ਪਦਾਰਥੁ  ਧੇਣੁ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥
ਊਚਉ  ਥਾਨੁ  ਸੁਹਾਵਣਾ  ਊਪਰਿ  ਮਹਲੁ  ਮੁਰਾਰਿ  ॥
ਸਚੁ  ਕਰਣੀ  ਦੇ  ਪਾਈਐ  ਦਰੁ  ਘਰੁ  ਮਹਲੁ  ਪਿਆਰਿ  ॥
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਮਨੁ  ਸਮਝਾਈਐ  ਆਤਮ  ਰਾਮੁ  ਬੀਚਾਰਿ  ॥੨॥
ਤ੍ਰਿਬਿਧਿ  ਕਰਮ  ਕਮਾਈਅਹਿ  ਆਸ  ਅੰਦੇਸਾ  ਹੋਇ  ॥
ਕਿਉ  ਗੁਰ  ਬਿਨੁ  ਤ੍ਰਿਕੁਟੀ  ਛੁਟਸੀ  ਸਹਜਿ  ਮਿਲਿਐ  ਸੁਖੁ  ਹੋਇ  ॥
ਨਿਜ  ਘਰਿ  ਮਹਲੁ  ਪਛਾਣੀਐ  ਨਦਰਿ  ਕਰੇ  ਮਲੁ  ਧੋਇ  ॥੩॥
ਬਿਨੁ  ਗੁਰ  ਮੈਲੁ  ਨ  ਉਤਰੈ  ਬਿਨੁ  ਹਰਿ  ਕਿਉ  ਘਰ  ਵਾਸੁ  ॥
ਏਕੋ  ਸਬਦੁ  ਵੀਚਾਰੀਐ  ਅਵਰ  ਤਿਆਗੈ  ਆਸ  ॥
ਨਾਨਕ  ਦੇਖਿ  ਦਿਖਾਈਐ  ਹਉ  ਸਦ  ਬਲਿਹਾਰੈ  ਜਾਸੁ  ॥੪॥੧੨॥
------------------------
ਸਭਿ ਸੁਖ ਹਰਿ ਰਸ ਭੋਗਣੇ ਸੰਤ ਸਭਾ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥
===================================
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that: Real Saints are must for the breaking the highest level. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is NOT the replacement of Sants. In-fact, there are many references in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji where is clear that Guru and Sant (real Sant) both are required and often inter-changeable (isn't this just a name tag). And this might be the reason that Guru did not write down the arths/translations of Guru Granth Sahib Ji: because TRUTH never changes but the seeker is always on change and therefore seeker needs a customized understanding as per their current level and that where Sants come to the picture. 
Sant is the one who has the key to unlock the treasure. So, how could we play-down-the-importance-of-Sants. I agree that these days a lot of not-so-high and some even fake Sants are present and these are the only type of Sant these days youngsters are exposed to. So, naturally the youngsters will be against these so-called Sants but this is leading our young generation towards the point where Muslims are: Katarpanthi and loosing the essence.
Moreover, I've seen another brand of people who say that puratan Sants were perfect and today there are none and therefore they just do ninda of today's Saints. It is correct to say that there are less Sants (real) these days but we often forget that there is also the downwall of the real seekers. Why would we expect a Phd teachers in excess whereas there are very less students? After-all Sants come to help the Souls on the path of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (Shabad marg).
So, bottom line is: when we're in lower grades e.g say in kindergarten then it IS okay to take lessons from lower grade teacher (keeping in mind that this is not the destination) and keep moving and eventually once we're ready, then we'll get the real understanding of Bani. Isn't it foolish to argue/blame/debate regarding the lack of true teachers or fake-teachers without relizing where we're standing on the path? These days, we put great stress on debates regarding rIght (MY version) vs wrong (OTHER's version.)
 

Hi das, few points;
1. Sri Guru granth Sahib Jee = Waheguru (God), so that means Gyaan(knowledge) in SGGS is infinite, how can its explanation be put on paper and written in language which has its limitations. But since Guru Sahib is Waheguru Himself and can do anything, and put this gyaan on paper. Now Guru sahib will write exactly the 100% true meanings on the Gurbani, not near 100% but exactly the truth as it is.
2. Now Jaap sahib says Waheguru Jee is "Nirbhujh", "Assujh", we have the meanings is front of us, Does our "Buddhi" understands what it says, looks hard to me.
3. So, why Guru Sahib did not write when Guru Sahib could, its like saying if 2 year old ask how babies are made, even if the person is Phd. in biology and know all, won't make the child understand the actual reality. So it ends up saying stork put babies in mother lap, and that is not the truth, even if Guru sahib want to tell oust exact thing we won't understand.
4. Also its my understading that Waheguru intention is for the human to struggle and find his own answers at his pace. Also I think gurbani goal to "bhujanna" not just memorizing the meanings. I am just rambling, your thoughts.

that's a poor excuse again.
You are saying that gurbani is only for brahmgyanee, ... a limited view is not going to help anyone get to that level.
and NO, the above is not a stage for brahmgyanee because if we make the effort then we can all get there. Brahmgyan comes when the person completely merges in with Brahm., when yoa and brahm become completely ik-mikh.... he becomes you and you become him....................You need to understand this..  as person doing 24./ saas saas doesn't have to be brahmgyaan.. that step comes after.......the complete merging of the mann......
Bro, you have to stop thinking inside the box and stop using only a brahmgyan can do this or do that. You are talking inside the box of your own panj chor and not seeing the truth of gurbani. Gurbani is not about translating it correctly to understand it...it's about ''feeling'' it and getting underneath the surface towards the SACH that it comes from. ......If you have no idea what I am talking about, then you haven't even attempted to see it's Truth
I see gurbani being played about too much on this forum as a tool for battling egos....I urge you all to please not do this and stop using it from it's surface levels. This makes you no better than the missionaries, who do exactly the same.

Which old saroops of Satguru jee don't have Sri Raagmala Sahib jee? How old are they?
Bhul chuk maaf

Handing the palla over by the father is the SAME as giving away the daughter as ''father of the bride''
I think we should understand the reasoning of woman walking whilst holding the palla which symbolises the new bond formed by father giving his daughter away.
This has nothing to do with who is dominant and who is who's b**ch.  (is it about a dog on a leash??)
We need some maryada for pre-marriage knowledge to be hammered in to couples. They MUST understand how sacred the lava are and exactly who's jyot merges into whom?
The couple DO NOT merge their jyot into each other in the ceremony and neither is it about 2 souls become ONE. ......It is about 2 souls or 2 jyots MERGING TOGETHER into the ONE AKAL PURAKH JYOT.
TWO souls circumambulating to enter into the ONE-WAHEGURU..
So don't get it mixed up with ceremonies from other faiths where couples join in matrimony whereby GOD is WITNESS. .....because this is clearly not the case in sikhi.
 
Guru Ram Das ji  composed the four lavan and Guru Arjan Dev ji and Mata Ganga ji were the first to be married with this ceremony.
Guruji set the example himself and today we have clever clogs who think they can tamper with the sacred ceremony because they feel they have more equal right concerns than a Sikh Guru.
Are we Sikhs, if we feel we can correct our Gurus ?
 
 
 
 

Even though i agree discussions are good , but these type of discussions i feel is breaking the panth , you have people
1. For Dasam Granth ji 
2. Anti Dasam Granth ji
3. in the middle
4. only for Sri Guru granth sahib ji
5. For none
In summary from all the posts , my understanding is that
One must be at a certain spiritual level to fully understand the true meaning . How is this achieved ?
Should there be a caveat in place , stating one must have had proper santhiya of both granths for x amount of years before they start preaching / having dialogue with the sangat as not to misguide them ? ( Like Bhai Pinderpal Singh) 
Should the granths be easily/readily available online/other sources as the normal "Joe Bloggs" reading the granth , especially the english translation will take the meaning literary and question and question its authenticity . Or does read and follow its teachings ...period no questions asked. 
If they do ask questions , who do they ask ? ( Forums , Granthis , mates and how legitimate will they be ?)
The questions asked should they be put in way asking for answers ? 
Then you get some , who get all defensive and abusive and attack personally due to one questioning the context according to their own psyche.
Where does one draw the line ?
 

Paapimaan's point is that - Explicit language does not mean that it is solely for "entertainment".
He is saying that there is explicit language in Gurbani yet the purpose is to explain something deeper.
And that this is also what Charitropakhyan is doing but instead of spiritual concepts, it covers wordly concepts.
Did I understand it correctly?
Indeed they won't so don't give them any attention. "What you resist persists"

Instead focus on discussion of material in Charitropakhyan and how it is relevant to  today's society.

Talk about the deeper meanings in Charitropakhyan and in what situations that story or message might be helpful.

Ps also that would create a space for people, who are not familiar with the material, to dig their hands into.

Sex is everywhere. You cannot avoid it.
You see bees dancing around, butterflies dancing, birds playing with each other, pollen transferring from one flower to another, night giving into day, when shakti rises to meet shiva that is also sex, when you are chanting mantra, your tongue is a linga rubbing against the roof of mouth, that is also called maithuna.
Once a devotee said to Baba Ishar Singh Ji that your belly is getting fact, Baba Ji replied we are pregnant with bindu of Guru Nanak, we have internalized Guru Nanak inside.
Even pooran mahapurakhs have sex with God, not physically , but on a way deeper level.
Man this stuff is deep and way beyond our understanfin, Gurbani is deeeeeep, we have no idea, our ego makes us think we can interpret it but no sir....
So the sexual imagery is not to be seen as sexual but something beyond comprehension.
Paapiman, ur intentions seem honest, but no matter how hard you try the nindaks of dasam bani will not stop, so let them be, hopefully Guru sahib bless them with understanding.
wjkk wjkf
 

Om Swami came from a rich family, is educated in Australia and was running his own multi-million dollar company. But he left everything to be on Spiritual track. Very touching articles. e.g
http://omswami.com/2015/09/a-story-of-faith.html
http://omswami.com/2015/05/a-cobbler-dog-and-god.html
I think he is indeed brave or say lucky, who can do what life really wants instead of us who are just engrossed in baseless/worthless arguments on this vs that. Have a look on his website. Great, refreshing.

Quote 
paapiman, singh123456777, Harjot8963, Raagmala and chatanga1 Ji can all of you kindly clarify whether you believe the 404 Tiya charitars (excluding Sri Benti Chaupai Sahib) to be the original personally-devised (unplagiarised) work of Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj themself or if you believe that the 404 charitars are in fact translations of earlier historic Hindu sexual erotica stories?
Unquote
It does not matter to Sikhs, whether it was written by Satguru jee or approved by Satguru jee --- Either way, we must respect and follow its teachings. Even Bhagat Gurbani and Bhatt Gurbani, were not initially uttered by any of the masters, but approved and included in SSGGSJ.
Bhul chul maaf

Bhul chuk maaf

I agree.It doesn't have to be given the status of Gurbani for it to be read by and used as knowledge by the Sikh. Guru Arjan Sahib didn't include Bhai Gurdas' Vaaran in Guru Granth Sahib, but that doesn't mean that we cannot read, respect, understand and follow them.

Isn't there a letter from Bhai Mani Singh telling Mata Sundri that he has located the Krishan Avtar and CharitarPakhyan? Bhai Mani Singh was tasked with the job of collecting Guru Sahib's writings. Isn't there a possibility that he would have known that these weren't Guru Ji's works?

It says this is so b/c the worshipper can only become like the roop of worshipped, hence in this case an istree

Neo the Khalistan movement brought out a lot of bravery and chivalry in many Sikhs. We have very good examples of Sukha/Jinda and their gang. Read about their exploits, you will be amazed. Then there were people like Avtar Singh Brahma, Toofan Singh and Arvinder Singh Goldy etc. I think the bravery and chivalry is still there in the Sikh psyche, but you have to take into account that wars are not fought aahmo-saamne anymore, and neither are the same weapons used.
If you look at the shaheedi of Bhai Avtar Singh Shattrana or Gurdev Singh Debu, you can see the spirit of the puratan Sikhs.