Premi

I have started reading this book, and as with all books on partition of Panjab, it makes a VERY depressing read!
I was hoping that this book would have truly reflected the feelings of the Sikh leadership and masses, but it carries a great irritiation from the author that the Sikhs won't accept themselves to be Hindu or part of the wider hindu pantheon. She makes the odd historical mistake here and there, but takes digs at the Singh Sabha and Gurdwara Sudhar Lehars. She also quotes from some quite hideous authors to back up the india-wide assertion that Sikhs were essentially part of the hindu society until the 1880s when they came under the infuence of the British to assert themselves as a separate people. So disappointing.
 
 
 

Is this the kind of mistake your talking about.
 
Victim of love Gihad
 

The mistake of thinking one enemy power subduing or destroying another enemy power is always going to be in your favour.
Nader Shah virtually destroyed Moghal power in Delhi leaving Sikhs able to make claims on Panjab. It worked out .
Native Americans helping the "white man" against other tribes in the hope that they would then possess their native american adverseries lands and hunting grounds. It was a genocide, and they have for all intents and purposes disappeared from the peoples map of the world.
 
I can see you piping up everytime something comes in against islam and/or muslims. Hindutva training. Sikhs in india have left true Sikhi, for their love affair with the indian state.
 
In the past 3 months, ManMohan Singh has dealt with at least 5 cases of Sikh youngsters converting to Islam in the UK. Whether they stay Muslim or not, the fact is that they had no regard or love for Gurmat to even consider that step.
 
But only last week a high ranking police officer was labelled a Khalistani because he objected to a BJP woman breaking the law:
 
 
As long as you kiss their arse, which you KD, seem to be fond of, they will love you as they love their pet dogs. But act against them and you will see their true colours.

What you're saying just consistently isn't based on what I said brother. 

Well brother. That is tragic. At least he didn't see real Court yet. 

A dangerous path. A mistake made by many over the years.

Don't know what to say....no justice in this country
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13104185/Swearing-Imam-72-ran-killed-49-year-old-man-lying-road-spared-jail.html
Swearing Imam, 72, who ran over and killed 49-year-old man lying in the road while on his way to mosque is spared jail - after telling police he thought body was a 'bin bag'
Qari Hazarvi Abassi hit the man on his way to the Abubakr Mosque in Southall By MILO POPE
PUBLISHED: 13:17, 20 February 2024 | UPDATED: 13:25, 20 February 2024
 
 
A swearing Imam who ran over and killed a man who was lying in the middle of the road has been spared jail after he told police he 'might have run over a bin bag'.
Qari Hazarvi Abassi, 72, from Southall, was on his way to lead early morning prayers at the Abubakr Mosque in west London when he hit Harvinder Singh, 49, on May 4, 2021.
Two passers-by saw Mr Singh lying in the middle of Lady Margaret Road and tried to divert vehicles around him. He had been found in the road earlier saying he wanted to kill himself.
...
He denied but was convicted of causing death by careless driving by an Old Bailey jury after a trial last month.
Abassi was sentenced to 36 weeks jail suspended for 12 months. He will also have to pay £1,800 in costs and he was disqualified from driving for three years.
Judge Rebecca Poulet, KC, said unfortunately by the spring of 2021 Mr Singh was in a 'very vulnerable state' and was 'deeply depressed, apparently suicidal and, I am told, suffering from alcoholism'.
She told Abassi: 'Before your approach two men completely unknown to each other had taken up positions in front of Mr Singh's body seeking to protect him.
'You did not slow down at all as you approached the two men who were by now urgently gesturing at oncoming vehicles to avoid Mr Singh and drive into the other carriageway.
'You did not slow or steer to avoid either of the men. Both men had to jump out of your path, as one of them said, 'to save my life'.'
'In my judgement you were impatient, and fatally misjudged the situation ahead of you.'
The judge said Abassi did not initially realise he had driven over a body and accepted that the cleric had shown remorse.
'You have now clearly expressed very deep remorse for the loss of Mr Sing's life, and you now accept the jury's verdict. This is a very tragic case'.
The Imam was driving at 25mph in a 20mph zone when he hit Mr Singh, the court heard.
Prosecutor Alexander Agbamu said two members of the public had stood in the road, warning Abassi of the imminent hazard ahead.
'Mr Abassi disregarded those warnings and did not slow his approach, causing the members of the public to jump out of the way to avoid being hit themselves.
'He drove over Mr Singh and continued to drive on without stopping. Mr Singh sustained devastating injury and was pronounced dead later that morning.'
Giving evidence through an Urdu interpreter, Abassi said he had not stopped when he saw the men because he thought they might have been drunk.
He said: 'While I was driving I saw two men standing on the road and they were showing some gestures towards me and I thought why are they doing these gestures with their hands towards me? Either they want a lift or they are drunk.
'There was something lying on the road which I thought was a bin or briefcase or something, and these men with their gestures.
'So I was thinking "Why are they doing this to me for being a human being, so I made some comments which were sweary".
'It was never in my mind that some human being or person was there. When people ask you to stop and you don't know those people, you don't stop for that reason.'
The prosecutor asked him: 'Do you think you did anything wrong?' Abassi replied: 'No'.

Don't know what to say....no justice in this country
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13104185/Swearing-Imam-72-ran-killed-49-year-old-man-lying-road-spared-jail.html
Swearing Imam, 72, who ran over and killed 49-year-old man lying in the road while on his way to mosque is spared jail - after telling police he thought body was a 'bin bag'
Qari Hazarvi Abassi hit the man on his way to the Abubakr Mosque in Southall By MILO POPE
PUBLISHED: 13:17, 20 February 2024 | UPDATED: 13:25, 20 February 2024
 
 
A swearing Imam who ran over and killed a man who was lying in the middle of the road has been spared jail after he told police he 'might have run over a bin bag'.
Qari Hazarvi Abassi, 72, from Southall, was on his way to lead early morning prayers at the Abubakr Mosque in west London when he hit Harvinder Singh, 49, on May 4, 2021.
Two passers-by saw Mr Singh lying in the middle of Lady Margaret Road and tried to divert vehicles around him. He had been found in the road earlier saying he wanted to kill himself.
...
He denied but was convicted of causing death by careless driving by an Old Bailey jury after a trial last month.
Abassi was sentenced to 36 weeks jail suspended for 12 months. He will also have to pay £1,800 in costs and he was disqualified from driving for three years.
Judge Rebecca Poulet, KC, said unfortunately by the spring of 2021 Mr Singh was in a 'very vulnerable state' and was 'deeply depressed, apparently suicidal and, I am told, suffering from alcoholism'.
She told Abassi: 'Before your approach two men completely unknown to each other had taken up positions in front of Mr Singh's body seeking to protect him.
'You did not slow down at all as you approached the two men who were by now urgently gesturing at oncoming vehicles to avoid Mr Singh and drive into the other carriageway.
'You did not slow or steer to avoid either of the men. Both men had to jump out of your path, as one of them said, 'to save my life'.'
'In my judgement you were impatient, and fatally misjudged the situation ahead of you.'
The judge said Abassi did not initially realise he had driven over a body and accepted that the cleric had shown remorse.
'You have now clearly expressed very deep remorse for the loss of Mr Sing's life, and you now accept the jury's verdict. This is a very tragic case'.
The Imam was driving at 25mph in a 20mph zone when he hit Mr Singh, the court heard.
Prosecutor Alexander Agbamu said two members of the public had stood in the road, warning Abassi of the imminent hazard ahead.
'Mr Abassi disregarded those warnings and did not slow his approach, causing the members of the public to jump out of the way to avoid being hit themselves.
'He drove over Mr Singh and continued to drive on without stopping. Mr Singh sustained devastating injury and was pronounced dead later that morning.'
Giving evidence through an Urdu interpreter, Abassi said he had not stopped when he saw the men because he thought they might have been drunk.
He said: 'While I was driving I saw two men standing on the road and they were showing some gestures towards me and I thought why are they doing these gestures with their hands towards me? Either they want a lift or they are drunk.
'There was something lying on the road which I thought was a bin or briefcase or something, and these men with their gestures.
'So I was thinking "Why are they doing this to me for being a human being, so I made some comments which were sweary".
'It was never in my mind that some human being or person was there. When people ask you to stop and you don't know those people, you don't stop for that reason.'
The prosecutor asked him: 'Do you think you did anything wrong?' Abassi replied: 'No'.

I would also be interested to know that. There must be some data somewhere showing how many people leave Islam

How many will remain muslim throughout their lives. Nobody counts how many leave islam.

Daily mail website

 
Why white British children as young as eight are pledging their lives to Allah
By SUE REID
PUBLISHED: 20:54 EST, 19 February 2024 | UPDATED: 02:33 EST, 20 February 2024
Eyes shining with excitement, the nine-year-old English boy in a dark Parka jacket holds up a certificate showing he has just converted to Islam.
‘You’re a Muslim, Rudi!’ cheers the imam as he hugs the child, whose hand he has held throughout a short ceremony at a Lancashire mosque.
In his piping voice, the youngster has just recited the words of the Shahada, a strict Islamic creed pledging that there is ‘nothing worthy of worship but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger’.
The mantra means he must now wash before praying five times a day, never eat pork and — when he is grown up — shun Western habits including drinking alcohol or sex, except with his own equally devout Muslim wife.
We know about Rudi, and that his mother, charity volunteer Claire, willingly agreed to his conversion, because we have seen a video of the event in January 2021.
Sign of the times: A Muslim cleric pictured with a young convert to Islam. Their identities have been obscured for legal reasons
The Mail has discovered that child and teenage Islamic conversions have become commonplace at the UK’s 1,500 mosques during the past five years. Identities have been obscured for legal reasons
It was posted online by the mosque and has been plastered over numerous Islamic TV channels as well as social media sites including Facebook, TikTok and YouTube, ever since.
During the video, Imam Muhammad Bilal can he heard asking Rudi if he has made his decision to become a Muslim of his free will and without any pressure from anyone. The boy answers yes, nodding his tiny, mopped head enthusiastically.
At that moment, Rudi became one of the youngest UK converts to Islam, according to the Greengate mosque in the former cotton town of Oldham.
But he is one of many hundreds of British children whose ancestors were largely Christians who are converting to the creed.
Type ‘Islam convert’ into an internet search engine and you will see scores of clips of British youngsters embracing the religion. Many have been posted by mosques to showcase the ‘phenomenon’ of mass conversions by disenchanted young Christians and non-believers, some still at primary school.
The number of converts — or ‘reverts’ as they are also known in Islam faith, which decrees that every person is born a Muslim — has grown into a tidal wave since the horrific massacre of Israelis by terror group Hamas last year, which has provoked a pro-Palestinian fervour among the young  which has provoked a pro-Palestinian fervour among the young. But the Mail has discovered the scene was set long before the October 7 atrocities. We have found that child and teenage Islamic conversions have become commonplace at the UK’s 1,500 mosques during the past five years.
Even in the cathedral city seat of the Church of England’s Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby, a mosque has posted a film online entitled Two English Brothers Accept Islam.
It shows the boys, perhaps aged 14 and 15, repeating the Shahada watched by groups of young Muslim men, some sitting on the floor, and nearly all recording the event on mobile phones. At the end, the bearded and gowned imam, waving a bottle of water and a microphone, smiles as the brothers hug each other and then embrace some of the watching worshippers.
In another astonishing video, a minuscule ten-year-old English child called George in a black and white headdress says the Shahada as he converts to Islam on a pavement under the shadow of Big Ben during a massive pro-Palestine protest in London last December. 
The cherubic-looking child is told by the Islamic cleric with a strong South London accent (who is not shown on screen): ‘Our main aim is paradise, [as Muslims] we will never die.’
The child is standing by his unnamed and straight-talking father in a flat cap, holding a Palestinian flag. He tells the camera that he once converted to Islam ‘25 years ago’ but has since strayed from the faith, even visiting Anglican churches to pray.
The father insists that he is encouraging his son to convert. The boy himself pipes up that he is anti-Islamophobia and wants to have a new life during what appears to be an impromptu ceremony.
The number of converts — or ‘reverts’ as they are also known in Islam faith, which decrees that every person is born a Muslim — has grown into a tidal wave since the horrific massacre of Israelis by terror group Hamas last year ‘This is amazing, you’re a believer. Go to the mosque and learn Arabic,’ instructs the imam as he finishes the Shahada with the child grinning in delight. 
Behind him as a backdrop to this extraordinary scene are flag-waving protesters, the statue of Winston Churchill and red London buses. This video of George has now gone viral across the world, along with those of other British boys and girls becoming Muslims.
One mosque welcoming the child converts with alacrity is Lewisham Islamic Centre in South-East London. 
Its outspoken chief imam Shakeel Begg, 44, is a persuasive and voluble speaker who, as the Mail revealed last December, told his worshippers at Friday prayers after the October 7 Hamas attack: ‘Grant victory to the people of Palestine, the people of Gaza, support them over their enemy, your enemy. Punish the oppressors (Israel) ... destroy them, tear them apart.’
He went on to claim that, despite filmed evidence to the contrary, the West and Israel were lying by saying Muslims ‘had killed innocent children in Israel’.
Begg is a controversial figure. He once launched an unsuccessful libel case against the BBC for calling him an extremist. The judge warned him that he was in the perfect position to ‘plant the seeds of extremism in a young mind’.
Yet now he boasts of his growing following, particularly among school-aged children and students, from within his own deprived borough and across London.
On Islamic channels, the imam explains that he has welcomed 30,000 new Muslims to his mosque over two decades, two of the recruits only eight years old.
‘People are looking for the truth... spiritual guidance and not finding that in the materialistic world that we are living in,’ he claimed. ‘So they are getting the answers and solutions in Islam.’
In a film, Meet The Imam Converting Tens of Thousands Of Brits To Islam, published recently on the 5Pillars news site, he continues: ‘Islam is being normalised. It is... cool to be a Muslim. Because you find footballers, boxers, rappers, celebrities, so it is OK with the general public.’
In another recent podcast he is interviewed with a fellow Muslim, Fatima Barkatulla, for a show entitled Londoners Converting To Islam. It was broadcast on the social media site UMMAH (‘community’ in Arabic) TALK, which has a growing UK following.
In the Barkatulla podcast, Begg says his mosque is giving out 30 to 40 copies of the Koran every week to passers-by who come in and ask for them. Many are non-Muslims.
He gives details of the two recently converted eight-year-old English children.
‘The girl was with her father, a Muslim who had taken the Shahada before. The primary-school boy came with his friends who attended the mosque,’ he says. ‘In the last three or four years, a lot of people are becoming Muslims from the white community.’
When asked by Ms Barkatulla (pictured behind a blue veil) how he sees the future in 100 years’ time, the imam says that every household in the UK will have someone in it who is a Muslim, ‘a daughter, son, a cousin, or an aunt’.
He expects in Lewisham, if Allah is willing, that almost all the population will have joined Islam by then.
Dig a little deeper into events at Lewisham Islamic Institute and you find on social media the short film of a pale-skinned English child — perhaps the eight-year-old girl he mentions — taking the Shahada there.
She looks incredibly young and has certainly not reached puberty. Her head, shoulders and thin chest are shrouded in a brown hijab, the modest Islamic covering for women, as she repeats her promises solemnly in a quiet voice to a cleric.
‘You are now a Muslim, Sister Layla,’ the man tells the child as he congratulates her warmly.
Although we are told on the mosque footage that she is called Layla, that is the name many new Muslim women and girls adopt after the ceremony because they shed their previous, often Christian, persona.
It holds a special meaning in Islam because it is shared by a female contemporary of the Prophet Muhammad’s who was married to one of his most successful generals. The video of Layla could easily be viewed as a publicity blurb fuelling the mosque’s uptick in conversions.
Begg would tell you that she — and her family — agreed to her being filmed during the momentous decision to devote her life to Islam at such an early age.
And this surge in British youngsters converting to Islam shows no sign of slowing. Many mosques make it clear they are willing to welcome non-believing recruits sporting ‘tattoos, braided uncovered hair, or even immodest clothing’, without criticism or judgement.
One of these eager forward scouts is another imam at the Lewisham Islamic Institute.
He is Ashraf Dabous who recently appeared on the Thinking Muslim podcast to talk of the ‘phenomenon’ of youth conversions. He said that a really dramatic rise of 60 or 70 youngsters, some just 13 and 14 years old, took Shahada there during Ramadan, the month of holy fasting, during spring last year.
The imam said many of the converts had watched their friends and fellow Muslim pupils praying five times a day at school, being friendly, disciplined in behaviour, and liked what they saw — so wanted to copy them.
‘There are a new generation [of young people] in our society who live Islam confidently. They say they are British, yes, but they are Muslim first,’ he explained during the interview.
He added: ‘Our doors [at the mosque] are always open.’
He suggested that controversies around gender and LGBT issues have driven a wedge through society, helping to encourage the avalanche of male converts to Islam. ‘It is difficult for young men to find their way in a society that is feminising and erasing them. We as Muslims are very black and white on these issues . . . a man is a man and a woman is a woman.’
This is confirmed by the Leicestershire-based Convert Muslim Foundation where a ‘leading light’ who wished to withhold her name told us this week that youngsters are being inspired by Islam amid turbulent world events.
‘They, and others of all ages, are worried about the moral bankruptcy of modern society,’ said the spokeswoman to the Mail, revealing that she herself had converted from Roman Catholicism.
More converts had come forward since October 7 after what she claimed, in an extraordinary outburst, was the ‘genocide’ Israel was inflicting on Palestine in its ongoing military action.
Other films seen by the Mail reveal English teenage males turning to Islam. Lancashire’s Masjid as-Sunnah establishment in Accrington has posted one of Mitch, 17, solemnly saying the Shahada as he sits on the floor next to an imam last year. He stands up afterwards and, smiling, is hugged by members of the congregation.
In nearby Nelson, teenager Dylan, in a grey hoodie, is filmed accepting the Shahada in a local mosque in 2022.
A message posted under the online film written by him and signed in his full name a year later says: ‘It’s me on this video . . . It is still the best decision of my life and all the blessings that come with Islam.’
This weekend Rudi — now 12 — does not regret his decision. After he converted, he changed his name to ‘Muhammed Muzammil’, referenced in the Koran as meaning a person enwrapped in the Islamic faith.
In photos and film taken at the mosque and distributed on social media, he is portrayed dressed in Islamic regalia praying next to adult male worshippers. His mother, Claire, 45, can be seen hugging her son at the mosque after his conversion. An outpouring of messages congratulate them both for their decision.
‘This is really beautiful,’ says one. ‘Nine-year-old Rudi has accepted Islam, the youngest person to take Shahada with the [Imam] Muhammad Bilal.’
The message praised his mother Claire for ‘beautifully saying she is happy with whatever decision her young son makes’. ‘May Allah honour Imam Bilal, bless Rudi, and allow this entire country to accept to Islam [sic],’ added the enthusiastic message.
This week the family of Rudi confirmed that he — and they — have no regrets about his conversion three years ago at such an early age. Rudi still attends some of the weekly Friday ceremonies at the mosque half an hour’s bus journey away from his terraced house where he lives with his mother, sister and brother.
The fresh devotion of Rudi, and so many other British boys and girls, to Islam shows no sign of waning. And it has to be said those who lead our mosques seem very pleased about the way this religious revolution is turning out.

https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2024-02-14/rapists-tried-to-charge-victim-20-after-truly-disturbing-attack-in-taxi
the middle one and one on the right look like socioopaths 
Three rapists tried to charge their victim £20 after 'horrific' attack in 'taxi' in Hull
Wednesday 14 February 2024 at 5:47pm   L-R: Bakhtullah Safi, Kehan Safi and Habibullah Ahmadzai are due to be sentenced in April.Credit: Humberside Police
Three men who raped a woman in what she believed to be a taxi and tried to charge her £20 for the journey will be sentenced in April.
The victim was walking home from a night out in Hull on 30 July 2023 when she got into one of a queue of cars parked on Ferensway, believing it was a taxi.
The car then drove off, before the three men raped her.
Following an eight-day trial at Hull Crown Court, a jury found Bakhtullah Safi, 18, of Margaret Street, and Habibullah Ahmadzai, also 18, of Wellsted Street, guilty of rape.
Kehan Safi, 26, of Wellington Lane, pleaded guilty to rape at an earlier hearing.
During the course of the journey, the trio continued to deceive the woman that it was a licenced taxi.
Having raped her, Bakhtullah then requested a £20 fare for the journey. The woman refused and fled to safety after she was allowed to get out of the vehicle.
Det Con Ashley Webster of Humberside Police said: “This was a truly disturbing case and I’m pleased these men are now behind bars and are being punished for this horrific attack.
“I cannot begin to put into words the bravery the woman has shown throughout the investigation and court proceedings, and I want to offer my sincerest thanks as she has helped take these abhorrent men off our streets.“Kehan Safi, Bakhtullah Safi and Habibullah Ahmadzai are what I can only describe as ‘sexual predators’ who subjected a lone woman who had just been on a night out with friends, to a horrific and utterly traumatising ordeal for their own perverse needs," he said.

Brother I think the British have a fundamental genocidal hate for you. Not the average British person on the street but the people that run the country. 

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ ਪੁਸਤਕ ਮੇਲਾ ਪਹਿਲਾ ਦਿਨ ਕੈਲੀਬਰ ਪਬਲੀਕੇਸ਼ਨ ਪਟਿਆਲਾ ਸਟਾਲ ਨੰਬਰ 80 ਕੈਲੀਬਰ ਪਬਲੀਕੇਸ਼ਨ ਪਟਿਆਲਾ 9815448958 ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ ਪੁਸਤਕ ਮੇਲਾ 21 ਤੋਂ 25 ਫ਼ਰਵਰੀ

They go again... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-68271364
Delhi: Farmers face tear gas trying to resume march to India capital
By Arvind Chhabra in Haryana & Meryl Sebastian in Kochi BBC News   Indian police have used tear gas for a second day to stop farmers demanding minimum crop prices from marching on the capital Delhi.
Mostly from Punjab state, the farmers are still 200km (125 miles) from Delhi at the Shambhu border in Haryana state.
The capital is ringed by razor wire, cement blocks and fencing on three sides to block their entry.
On Tuesday, Haryana police had fired tear gas after farmers began removing barricades on the way.
Later at night, farm leaders called a "ceasefire" and said they would resume their march in the morning.
Video footage on Wednesday morning showed thousands of riot police and paramilitary troops deployed along Delhi borders to keep the protesters away.
Farmers on the Shambhu border have been distributing protective eyewear to protesters as police deployed tear gas shells to stop their march.
Farm leaders there also held a press conference, alleging that plastic and rubber bullets had been used against them.
They also criticised the media coverage of the protests saying a perception was being created that farmers were "terrorists" or aligned with opposition parties.
"We have nothing to do with anyone else," farm leader Sarwan Singh Pandher told reporters. "Our demands have been the same from the very beginning."
...
More than 200 unions are participating in the march and the farmers aim to reach the capital after crossing the state of Haryana.
On Tuesday, images from the city of Ambala, 200km north of the capital, showed thick clouds of tear gas. At the Shambhu border, clashes broke out between police and protesters as they tried to press past the barricades. Police dropped tear gas on the crowd using drones.
Several protesters were injured in the police action. Security personnel also suffered injuries from stones pelted at them by the protesters.

I have heard multiple Katha where it is clarified that it is Ik Oankaar.
What's your source for 'Ik Omkaar'?
What's prompted this topic/thread?
Thanks

We need to understand the arth of the previous verse to understand this tuk.
Below are the arths from three different Teekas:
 

 

 

 

 

 
Bhu chuk maaf

well, the fact the Sikhs are forbidden to eat Halal-meat only.

You're wrong with that one Bhaji, the youth these days cannot digest certain parts of SGPC rehat maryada.

Would you not class Taksalis and nirmalas as scholars bro?

"The extant text of Rehatnama Chaupa Singh is a conflation of at least three different sources. It cannot be the work of a single author. The manuscript evidence points to a text
comprising of four parts: the preface, a set of prescriptions of conduct, a narrative of Guru Gobind Singh's life, and a string of transgressions that need to be punished. The core of the text is constituted of the preface and the part that follows it, while the remaining two sections were appended later. The counting of the sentences in the section that follows the preface was eventually extended to the appended parts, creating the impression that they were always part of a single whole."

We need to settle the above issue first, ascertain which the real Chaupa Singh rehat is and then discuss its contents. Seems nearly impossible because we have near to no scholars left in our nation. Only people who argue on trivial matters and look down people not following the same Rehat.

Oof

Can you please elaborate on the point above?
Thanks
 
Bhul chuk maaf

There was no infiltration though. They were placed there by the you know whos. This goes for literally every position back then. For you to dumb it down to simple casteist nonsense just trivialises what happened.  For you to associate me with british racists shows how demented you are. I’ve already talked about the issue plenty over the years but just because I don’t pay lip service to the same old discussions each and everytime isn’t a sign of anything. We can’t all be mental like gurjant and constantly post inane musings and mock concern all the time. 
None of your economic points stand. As I’ve said before, India gets foodstuffs from East Punjab at a significant discount. In fact, India ends up exporting a lot of it to other countries. There are no cheap imports compared to their domestic producers. The water table is dropping because they grow water intensive crops there - those are the only ones guaranteed by the government’s minimum price scheme. If they could grow others they would but they aren’t allowed to. East Punjabis are also completely fascinated with westernisation. It’s a huge driver of various issues amongst them. I’ve already answered your other points about BRICS, I’m not going to keep repeating myself as normal sane people don’t say the same thing over and over again repetitively. 
A lot of freshies won’t even speak Punjabi once they get here. You may speak to some yokels who don’t know anything but the townies and city folk are a mixed bag in my experience. Acting as if you have a monopoly on apneh is just weird. They do all sorts of jobs and have varied education levels, though those aren’t always good indicators of the sort of person they are.  I can’t believe I have to spell this out to you but there are people who’ve read Granths and literature their whole lives….. but it hasn’t changed who they are. If you are using this as some sort of measurement for people don’t be surprised if it doesn’t turn out to be quite accurate. Just take a look at most of our committees for examples.
You just can’t stop crying that I know more about these topics than you. You try and sound knowledgeable, then you call me a know it all and finally you just resort to conjecture. Class envy is a weird thing for a Sikh to do.
When it comes to conversions the main cause is the obsession with westernisation, with casteism and poverty being secondary causes. If you actually talked to these people you would know that. People like gurjant go around on this forum spewing xtian verses and you are silent. Now you care about conversions all of a sudden? Do you think I am as dumb as you are?
I won’t call you an amateur hour Indiana Jones but you sometimes do come close to it. Most clued up Sikhs know that the colonial period wasn’t all benevolent brits giving us ‘choo-choo’ trains or letting us join in their ‘international escapades’. They effectively lobotomised and then robbed us before trying to finish us for good. Those who don’t see it this way have a vested interest in deluding themselves. Come to think of it I was the one explaining the ins and outs of what was going on to you. 
Moosewala wasn’t just popular with Sikhs. As for his songs, well he said he was a Khalistani but then tried to get elected with Congress so who knows what he really was. 
You don’t know what qualifications I have or what I am. I know a damn well more about this subject than you. It’s all well and good claiming you want to move forward, but the Badals said the same thing and look what they did - a colossal unprecedented mess. You will probably end up causing a Great Leap Forward type event with your thinking. Go look it up if you want to actually learn something rather than repeating yourself. You don’t even know about the debt levels of the government there, who their loans are owed to, the issues surrounding paying loans in foreign currencies with changing interest rates and the harm brishit management consultants have caused over the past decade to East Punjab. Have a clue about something before you start going on.
The collage was primary school level. You’re going to have to do better if you want to be taken seriously. In fact, feel free to post it on various bhangra music videos and social media pages. Don’t just save it for the lucky souls on this forum. 

If even now, you're failing to acknowledge how a certain caste has infiltrated all major Sikh institutes and have been playing havoc with the principle of egalitarianism that is central to the idea of Sikh society - it says it all.....  But then maybe I shouldn't really be surprised because you've never once addressed the issue in all these years. You are part of the problem, just like a white denying racism has any serious impact on british society. 
You've completely turned a blind eye to my comments about how an agriculture dependent economy has been, and will in all likely cases will continue to be a dead end for Panjab. If anything things will get even worse in this department if things like BRICS happen, because India will probably be able to get cheap grains and whatnot from elsewhere. On top of the matter of a falling water table and increasingly unpredictable weather. It's not complicated. Plus you fail to address the fact that very few people (including people from farming families) actually want to do farming. This is no mysterious thing, even the children of farmers in the west have this problem.  It's laughable how you've failed to comprehend my point about wider global geo-political changes having the potential to change the game in Panjab. That was the whole point of the big fish in small ponds suddenly finding themselves in an ocean with a whole bunch of new things to contend with. 
 
It's funny because I learnt that 'rectal parasite' phrase from you years ago. At that point you were making the very point that we can't continue like this. You're one to talk about having an island monkey way of thinking - you're not even capable of conversing with the people you try and champion in their own native tongue. So it's no wonder your ideas are so 'out there'. You really haven't mixed with apnay - and if you did, what did you do, speak broken english with them? I'm not saying this to have a dig, but in all sincerity, how can you be influenced by, and absorb your cultural heritage (Sikh one NOT Panjabi)  without being able to communicate with people or read/access texts which help you imbibe the culture? None of us are perfect, but that gaping vacuum puts you in danger of all manner of miscomprehensions. That's doubled because a large number of people you encounter don't know much themselves. 
 
Now we see your toffo nature coming out. I'm better than you and more intelligent.....course you are........
I've had intelligent exchanges with you in the past. But i don't think we are going to progress until we confront and defeat the current norm of disgraceful inequality amongst Sikhs. We all know who the main culprits are in terms of trying to position themselves as some high caste, superior beings in the panth. I've been warning about the consequences of this for well over a decade - and look!!! Exactly what I was trying to warn about has come to be - we have people leaving the panth because of discrimination and forming their own groups as well as conversions to other faiths because of it. Then we NOW have opportunistists jumping on the bandwagon too. People like yourself helped bring this about through underplaying the issue.  
 
If we had a better culture than the normalised cut throat one in Panjab, we might be able to circumvent some of Delhi's moves against Sikhs. It's not just one way. Plenty of our own are willing instruments in what's going on. 
What a load of gibberish. I've tried hard to uncover precolonial Sikhi over the years. Are you going to deny that? You've lost the plot. If anything I was at the forefront of trying to highlight the 'jedi mind trick' done on apnay's psyches during colonialism. To your credit, you did recognise this to some extent. But you are in a tiny minority. But things are slowly slowly (hopefully changing). It might take a few generations the way some of our lot are so slow (and frankly apathetic). 
That just reinforces what I'm saying: a man who primarily wrote caste based, 'hard man' songs turns out to be the most popular singer in modern times - it just perfectly reflects what I'm saying about where the majority of this crowd's head is at!  
 
I'm not an economist - neither are you. None of us can accurately predict the future. But it looks like big changes are coming whether we like it or not. You STILL fail to address the issue that most people in Panjab don't want to work in the agricultural industry. And on top of that, a diverse, modern economy is a smart move.
I did that collage to make a valid point about where we are and how I feel about it in a humorous way that even an unlettered imbecile could understand.  And it's not just bhangra, it's a whole pendu mindset that is also part and parcel of that, that is holding us back. I don't watch Panjabi music videos btw. I don't watch the films either. You can just do a 5 second search and be flooded with evidence of where apnay's heads are at in this respect.