Our Mata, Mata Sahib Devi

[amardeep]

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh.

upon entering the Khalsa brotherhood, your spiritual parents becomes The king of Kings Sahib Sri Gobind Singh ji Maharaj, and The purest of the pure mata Sahib Devi..

As we all know there are tons of beautifull books written on our Father, but has there been written anything on our Mata ji? I personally know next to nothing about her life, her qualities, her personality, her heart.

Has there been written anything about her in any litterature? if so, please share your knowledge with sangat.

[Matheen]

Suraj Parkash Granth tells us a bit about her. I suggest you listen to this:

http://www.gurbaniupdesh.org/multimedia/in...Patiala+Wale%29

A bit long, but well worth it.

[amardeep]

Thank you for the link.

what is the reason of Mata jis low importance among sikhs, compared to the importance of Mariya in catcholicm and Lady Fatima in Shia Islam?

How come we dont revere our matas the same way?

[Malwe Da Sher]

Nihang Singhs do revere Mata Sahib Devan very highly.

[Matheen]

Mata Ji is very highly revered - what higher title can there be than "Mother of the Khalsa"?

[amardeep]

Indeed matheen. But im thinking of more like a role model... Sikhs use Guru Gobind Singh Mahraj as their rolemodel, as he is the Perfect Man, but why is Mata Sahib Devi not used as role models for girls, as is Lady Fatimah in Shia Islam etc.

im just wondering, as she is our mata, and so little is mentioned about it in everyday life

[wahegurubol]

Sikhs in india believe that Mata Sahib Kaur was was incarnation of durga mata , ofcourse I dont believe that..but thats what I heard from some ppl when i came across. Total crap !

[kirpa_karo]

what would you define as durga mata ?

isnt durga just an aspect fo the divine?

[Niranjana]

amardeep asked:

"what is the reason of Mata jis low importance among sikhs, compared to the importance of Mariya in catcholicm and Lady Fatima in Shia Islam?"

Making such comparisons at face value are not always so appropriate given the differences in traditions, however the importance of the Mata Sahibs have been in recent times either under emphasised (usually because certain groups like to further their own petty agendas by focusing on exceptional figures like Mai Bhago, who has become rather strangely the epitome of a Sikh woman compared to the likes of Mata Sahib Devan, Mata Khivi Jee etc) or over-emphasised by ill-thought out links to Mata Durga or revisionist expressions of what their roles were, these again are motivated by individual group agendas or jumping (rather blindly) onto the so-called "feminist" bandwagon.

[Niranjana]

wahegurubol wrote:

"Sikhs in india believe that Mata Sahib Kaur was was incarnation of durga mata , ofcourse I dont believe that..but thats what I heard from some ppl when i came across. Total crap !"

The obvious question that comes to mind is if Mata Sahib Devi was indeed Durga, then

(a) why did Guru Sahib marry her? Surely he would be inclined to do her pooja, given that the same group of people who advocate his myth also assert that Guru Sahib was Dhust Daman in his past life and obtained a boon from the Devi?

( Durga Devi always personally goes to war (in all her previous incarnations as Chamundi Maa or otherwise), our Mata Sahibs (contrary to the mascline image of Sikh warrior women portrayed by certain groups) never went to war themselves.

This is also an issue I have with mainstream Hindus refering to Indira Ghandi as an incarnation of Durga last century, in this case, such an assertion it is nothing more than an insult to the Devi Durga, who is beyond comparison to a politician like Ghandi.

[Niranjana]

Matheen wrote;

"Mata Ji is very highly revered - what higher title can there be than "Mother of the Khalsa"?"

For all extents and purposes, this has to be the bottom line.

[amardeep]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

How much is known about Mata ji, are there any sakhis on her or is it mostly overall information?

I remember seing a picture of Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj embracing one of his younger sons, it tore my heart apart it was so beautiful

to be reminded of the parental aspect of Maharaj and his love towards his children. Do any of you know any sakhis regarding the Sahibzades relationship with their parents (i have only heard one and that is the one at the battle of Chamkaur Sahib)

as Niranjana has stated, the political agenda of some groups may have pushed certain characters out of primary sikh history. I remember how surprised i was to see the Sarbloh Granth sahib mentioning the four Sahibzade as the leaders of the Khalsa, while they are practically never mentioned among sikhs today.

what was the status and role of Mata ji and the four sahibzade in "early Sikhism" ?

[wahegurubol]

Every great woman in India becomes an incarnation of durga mata... LOL !

as for reverance to mata ji. ... There is really No Difference between Guru Gobind Singh and Mata Sahib Kaur. They r one and the same.

[Pheena]

(a) why did Guru Sahib marry her? Surely he would be inclined to do her pooja, given that the same group of people who advocate his myth also assert that Guru Sahib was Dhust Daman in his past life and obtained a boon from the Devi?

was guru sabhi not Dhust Daman in his past life?

[wahegurubol]

as guru sabhi not Dhust Daman in his past life?

this is another controversial topic, but i feel that his being dhust daman has nothing to do more than mythology. i dont believe.

[wahegurubol]

what would you define as durga mata ?

isnt durga just an aspect fo the divine?

this is shri durga mata ji :

[Niranjana]

this is another controversial topic, but i feel that his being dhust daman has nothing to do more than mythology. i dont believe.

The story of Dhust Daman does not appear in either the Sri Guru Granth Sahib or the Sri Dasam Granth Sahib (contrary to what the anti-Dasam Granth lobby like to say, which incidently is another why the majority of them are plain morons, as they clearly haven't read the text in question!)

The main source of the Dhust Daman fable is the Sau Sakhi, which is an extremely difficult text to work with by any stretch of the imagination.

Those who believe the Dhust Daman was Guru Gobind Singh in his prior life, please provide tangible evidence to that effect.

[Niranjana]

what would you define as durga mata ?

isnt durga just an aspect fo the divine?

Maybe so, however Durga Devi is also not the Advait Brahman that the Upanishads or the Sri Guru Granth Sahib speaks of, so this line of thinking is not going to lead anywhere, since we can drill it down to you and me being aspects of the Divine, we just have 'realised' it as yet!

[Pheena]

The story of Dhust Daman does not appear in either the Sri Guru Granth Sahib or the Sri Dasam Granth Sahib (contrary to what the anti-Dasam Granth lobby like to say, which incidently is another why the majority of them are plain morons, as they clearly haven't read the text in question!)

The main source of the Dhust Daman fable is the Sau Sakhi, which is an extremely difficult text to work with by any stretch of the imagination.

Those who believe the Dhust Daman was Guru Gobind Singh in his prior life, please provide tangible evidence to that effect.

Forgive my ignorance on this topic, but I was under the impression that the established Hemkunt Sahib was due to the reference made in the Dust Daman story of Guru Sahib who had done bhagti there prior to taking birth as the 10th Master.

[Guest]

The story of Dhust Daman does not appear in either the Sri Guru Granth Sahib or the Sri Dasam Granth Sahib (contrary to what the anti-Dasam Granth lobby like to say, which incidently is another why the majority of them are plain morons, as they clearly haven't read the text in question!)

The main source of the Dhust Daman fable is the Sau Sakhi, which is an extremely difficult text to work with by any stretch of the imagination.

Those who believe the Dhust Daman was Guru Gobind Singh in his prior life, please provide tangible evidence to that effect.

I thought indications towards previous incarnation of sri guru gobind singh-dusth daman ji was made in bachitar natak by maharaj himself?

[gsingh00]

neither does guru sahib refer to themselves as dusht daman, nor do they write anything about the supposed battle fought by dusht daman.

I think sooraj prakash also talks about dusht daman.

[shaheediyan]

The location of Hemkunt Sahib is purely guesswork on part of the retired army general Sohan Singh who was inspired by Vir Singhs work Sri Kalgidhar Chamtkar, which was previously inspired by Pandit Tara Singhs work commissioned by the Maharaja of Patiala.

The vague geological evidence of the site is the mention of seven peaks in Maharaj's Bachitar Natak, I don't recall the mention of Dusht Daman.

[Xylitol]

as an interesting point,

The founder of a local prachaar school told me that he met a yogi at sri Hemkunt Sahib who has been doing Tap since Rishi Dusht Daman ji's time. This yogi actually knew Guru ji in that previous incarnation.

one day, when I have time I'll ask him for more details on the encounter with the yogi.

[Guest]

There is difinately indication of maharaj previous life written by maharaj himself. Bachitar Natak doesnt referred to name dust daman directly but he defaniately made indiction of his previous life.

[wahegurubol]

as an interesting point,

The founder of a local prachaar school told me that he met a yogi at sri Hemkunt Sahib who has been doing Tap since Rishi Dusht Daman ji's time. This yogi actually knew Guru ji in that previous incarnation.

one day, when I have time I'll ask him for more details on the encounter with the yogi.

I have read it somewhere, somethig similar. The person who went to himalayas to find about hemkunt sahib, he met a Yogi there adn then the yogi told him pointing towards a stone "This is the place where your Guru sat and meditated." and after that the yogi disappeared.

I do believe in hemkunt sahib, but I odnt know about the authenticity of dusht daman... i feel it is just mythology... all this demon v/s devas seems like hinuistic mythology.

There is a mandir also infront of the gurudwara in hemkunt and surprisingly i have noticed in punjab that whereever you have a Gurudwara there is a mandir opposite it and even in Dubai ! Mehtab Singh must be knowing it. :evil: