Bibian And Singhs

[JustME]

waheguru.....

Each of us is filled with a vice.....problems arise because we are not aligned with ourselves.......we cannot or moreso do not wnt to see the filth that resides in us...............hence come the false claims of fake brotherly/sisterly love................the only person we can ever fool is ourselves...............the only person who suffers in all this is us.............yet we are all searching for the same thing..............but we turn to the desease itself for a cure............

[randip singh]

I believe kaam translates to 'obsession/addiction/lust'. It does not necessarily have to relate to sexual desire, but this form of lust/desire is certainly the strongest.

I understand what you are saying Randip Singh Ji, all I am saying is that we shouldn't ridicule traditional methods which some youth today find nimrata and strentgh in - methods or cultures which I personally saw esteemed and devote members the older generation use, not to mention divine personalities in History and many famous Gursikh. Your leather example actually implies 'association' so it would have been cultivated elsewhere - to that with which it associates.

If your method works for you, its all well and good. Some of us like to believe their is wisdom in tradition/religious personalities, those beliefs should at the very least be respected.

I see what you are saying.

My intention wasn't to ridicule, but I can see how my abrupt style can be seen to be ridiculing. I will watch that in future.

Thanks

[Kaljug]

Amardeep Singh,

Where did you find the English translation of Charitropakhyan? Is it in book form or is it online somewhere? I've got Surindar Singh Kohli's translation of Dasam Granth but it does not contain Charitropakhyan or the Hikayats, nor do any of the other English translations I've come across.

Also, is the raja in the story supposed to be Guru Ji?

Regards,

K.

[amardeep]

you can download an english translation of Charitro Pakhyan here.

http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showtopic=10849

[randip singh]

you can download an english translation of Charitro Pakhyan here.

http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showtopic=10849

I highly recommend ready Chitropakhayan. Even if you don't believe in the Dasam Granth, this gives you an idea of how one can be trapped in Kaam.

[Only five]

It all depend on how strong your SIkhi is. If your Sikhi is really strong then looking at another women is nothing and looking down when a women is passing by is a great way to advance in Sikhi. It keeps the desire out of your mind. Keep reading Gurbani to keep kaam in check. Sooner or later this desire will be in check and looking or talking to a women will not bring kaam up. And if you feel the women is in kaam then simply end the conversation in a polite way and walk away. Repeating Waheguru consciously when one of the five thieves present themselves and it will help keep them in check. Kaam affects both and don't blame women for you being a victim of kaam. Same goes for women don't blame men for the kaam that presents itself. If this is happening to you then it's a clear cut indication to do more bhagti. With more bhagti comes shakti and with more shakti comes a better understanding of yourself.

Figure out what stage you are at on your Sikhi and take the appropriate precautions to keep yourself in check. This can range from doing bhagti for couple hours straight each day or lowering your eyes when a women walks by or just doing a combination of things to keep progressing on the path of Sikhi.

Just don't start hanging yourselves from trees and running in the woods to be yogis.

This Chitropakhayan story is the biggest lie I have ever heard. How can our great Guru be tricked by some women. Think about it long and hard before you answer. There is so many things faulty about this story. Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji would have known when one of his helpers lied to him. Then you have Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji running at the end of the story. Come on people, why would he run. The Guru never cares about public opinion. Read Gurbani. Then you have Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji flirting with the women to trick her!!!!!! Get real people. Truth is high, but higher is Truthful living. The Guru will never go against this. Further, you have the women's brother being beaten for doing something he did not do. And the Guru if the story was true would have spoken out that the brother did not steal, once again holding Truthful living higher.

Look how this story starts off, Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji wanted to know some mantra.LOL, why in the world would Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji go to another when he is the True Guru himself. For God's sake he is the Guru, not some spiritually unwise person.

The Guru that gave us the Khalsa Panth is asking for mantras from other's and running with leaving his clothing and shoes behind. Seriously get real people and stop spreading these fake stories.

[randip singh]

It all depend on how strong your SIkhi is. If your Sikhi is really strong then looking at another women is nothing and looking down when a women is passing by is a great way to advance in Sikhi. It keeps the desire out of your mind. Keep reading Gurbani to keep kaam in check. Sooner or later this desire will be in check and looking or talking to a women will not bring kaam up. And if you feel the women is in kaam then simply end the conversation in a polite way and walk away. Repeating Waheguru consciously when one of the five thieves present themselves and it will help keep them in check. Kaam affects both and don't blame women for you being a victim of kaam. Same goes for women don't blame men for the kaam that presents itself. If this is happening to you then it's a clear cut indication to do more bhagti. With more bhagti comes shakti and with more shakti comes a better understanding of yourself.

Figure out what stage you are at on your Sikhi and take the appropriate precautions to keep yourself in check. This can range from doing bhagti for couple hours straight each day or lowering your eyes when a women walks by or just doing a combination of things to keep progressing on the path of Sikhi.

Just don't start hanging yourselves from trees and running in the woods to be yogis.

This Chitropakhayan story is the biggest lie I have ever heard. How can our great Guru be tricked by some women. Think about it long and hard before you answer. There is so many things faulty about this story. Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji would have known when one of his helpers lied to him. Then you have Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji running at the end of the story. Come on people, why would he run. The Guru never cares about public opinion. Read Gurbani. Then you have Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji flirting with the women to trick her!!!!!! Get real people. Truth is high, but higher is Truthful living. The Guru will never go against this. Further, you have the women's brother being beaten for doing something he did not do. And the Guru if the story was true would have spoken out that the brother did not steal, once again holding Truthful living higher.

Look how this story starts off, Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji wanted to know some mantra.LOL, why in the world would Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji go to another when he is the True Guru himself. For God's sake he is the Guru, not some spiritually unwise person.

The Guru that gave us the Khalsa Panth is asking for mantras from other's and running with leaving his clothing and shoes behind. Seriously get real people and stop spreading these fake stories.

Where is you proof that Chitro Pakhyan is a lie?

Have you read Chitro Pakhya? If so what happens in the section when the women are dancing?

[shaheediyan]

Don't come here calling Sri Dasam Granth Sahib a lie. If you don't agree with it at least fully read it, speak to those that have vidya over it i.e. Taksals/Dals (instead of using your own manmat), then provide a critical appraisal and have the manners to address an audience appropriately, most of whom complete faith in Dasmesh Pitas bani.

And please don't provide pathetic Afghana/Gagga/Darshani/Canadian Singh Sabhia propoganda as some sort of saboot - although your stance clearly shows that you belong to one of these heretic groups.

[Silence]

Only five, i used to be in the same boat as you, but guru ji did kirpa, listen there is a lot of misunderstanding of dasam granth these days even from people who believe in it, they give the wrong meanings themselves so its no wonder average sikhs will get shanka. PLEASE PLEASE Listen to vyakhia, katha etc of dasam granth by the real deal taksalis, listen to what sant baba jarnail singh ji, sant babagurbachan singh ji,sant baba kartar singh ji, and giani thakur singh ji say, listen with an open mind, IGNORE all the koor parchar, please.

and the story is NOT about Guru Sahib, its about a king! Chartiropakhyan means stories which have already been told, so it cant be about anything contemporary i.e. cant be about guru sahib.

[shaheediyan]

The charitr is allegorical.

[Mithar]

Only five, i used to be in the same boat as you, but guru ji did kirpa, listen there is a lot of misunderstanding of dasam granth these days even from people who believe in it, they give the wrong meanings themselves so its no wonder average sikhs will get shanka. PLEASE PLEASE Listen to vyakhia, katha etc of dasam granth by the real deal taksalis, listen to what sant baba jarnail singh ji, sant babagurbachan singh ji,sant baba kartar singh ji, and giani thakur singh ji say, listen with an open mind, IGNORE all the koor parchar, please.

and the story is NOT about Guru Sahib, its about a king! Chartiropakhyan means stories which have already been told, so it cant be about anything contemporary i.e. cant be about guru sahib.

Silence brother, you are right. I was also one of those people not too long ago who would ridicule Dasam Banis and say it is a lie. But with Guru Jee's kripaa that is all in the past. One needs to listen to vyakya and katha of Gyanis who know and have studied Sri Dasam Granth, only then can you understand under what context certain banis were written. It is best if one stays away from Kala Afghana/Ghagha/Canadian 'Singh Sabha' propaganda.

[Only five]

Only five, i used to be in the same boat as you, but guru ji did kirpa, listen there is a lot of misunderstanding of dasam granth these days even from people who believe in it, they give the wrong meanings themselves so its no wonder average sikhs will get shanka. PLEASE PLEASE Listen to vyakhia, katha etc of dasam granth by the real deal taksalis, listen to what sant baba jarnail singh ji, sant babagurbachan singh ji,sant baba kartar singh ji, and giani thakur singh ji say, listen with an open mind, IGNORE all the koor parchar, please.

and the story is NOT about Guru Sahib, its about a king! Chartiropakhyan means stories which have already been told, so it cant be about anything contemporary i.e. cant be about guru sahib.

Silence ji

I, myself read and listen to Dasam Granth Bani. To what i am questioning is the story and when people like to say that the Raja in the story is Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji. Maybe these individuals are on this forum aswell, who like to spread this lie. I have a good idea already of one of the member's who supports that it was Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji. Thank you for pointing it out that it was not Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji.

The people I am refering to, try to make Guru Sahib into a fool with this story and demean his status as Guru.

THE RAJA IN THE STORY IS NOT GURU GOBIND SINGH SAHIB JI AND IF THERE IS ANY CLAIM THAT IT IS THEN THIS STORY IS A LIE.

[Only five]

The Raja then thought, that at the time there was no Sikh available with him; and this woman in her madness was adamant to defame him. If he were to run away from there, there was no one with him to help him. (41 and 42)

People need to read this part more closely. Why does it say Sikh here. Why would some other Raja claim there is no Sikh with him when a Sikh only bows and took Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji as their Guru. Why in the world would another Sikh be with another Raja who people worship and he is also refered to as Guru. Thing's don't add up here.

This whole story is made out to look like as Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji is the Raja in the story. There are alot of giddar's against the Panth, don't believe a word they say and always refer back to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji if something doesn't sound right and it is being passed on as Guru Sahib's doing or actions or saying.

let's ask Randip Singh, is it Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji in this story who is being refered to as Raja or is it some other Raja?

[randip singh]

Don't come here calling Sri Dasam Granth Sahib a lie. If you don't agree with it at least fully read it, speak to those that have vidya over it i.e. Taksals/Dals (instead of using your own manmat), then provide a critical appraisal and have the manners to address an audience appropriately, most of whom complete faith in Dasmesh Pitas bani.

And please don't provide pathetic Afghana/Gagga/Darshani/Canadian Singh Sabhia propoganda as some sort of saboot - although your stance clearly shows that you belong to one of these heretic groups.

Problem is many people come onto forums without reading Bani, or reading Dasam Granth. If they do read it, they do not understand it, they do not understand metaphors and they do not understand the allegorical and contextual nature in which they were written.

What I suggest is ask specific questions to detractors on specific pages and ask them what they mean. It's very interesting to watch these people squirm.

[Only five]

Problem is many people come onto forums without reading Bani, or reading Dasam Granth. If they do read it, they do not understand it, they do not understand metaphors and they do not understand the allegorical and contextual nature in which they were written.

What I suggest is ask specific questions to detractors on specific pages and ask them what they mean. It's very interesting to watch these people squirm.

WOWWWWWW talk about having a huge ego. Randip if you believe you are learned in Gurbani then you should teach others the meaning of Shabads. To hold this over others is a very very very bad thing Randip. Let's follow Guru Sahib and kill the ego.

Take Care Randip

[Xylitol]

the word Sikh does not always refer to followers of the Sikh religion. It can very easily be used to refer to followers of other Gurus, which makes perfect sense considering the roots of the word.

[randip singh]

WOWWWWWW talk about having a huge ego. Randip if you believe you are learned in Gurbani then you should teach others the meaning of Shabads. To hold this over others is a very very very bad thing Randip. Let's follow Guru Sahib and kill the ego.

Take Care Randip

I am not in a position to teach anyone in Bani. I do recommend people understand it themselves rather than just reading it.

Many people here will not understand Braj, therefore I recommend translation by Dharam Singh and Jodh Singh.

[Only five]

the word Sikh does not always refer to followers of the Sikh religion. It can very easily be used to refer to followers of other Gurus, which makes perfect sense considering the roots of the word.

When it's written by Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji, then it does.

[Only five]

I am not in a position to teach anyone in Bani. I do recommend people understand it themselves rather than just reading it.

Many people here will not understand Braj, therefore I recommend translation by Dharam Singh and Jodh Singh.

Well you have two post saying two different things. Glad you changed your views here.

[Guest]

When it's written by Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji, then it does.

Just a little correction: Sri guru gobind singh ji didn't write treh charitar himself but included 405 charitars from puratan compositions. One being - panch tantar in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji.

Please read the following thread titled- Methodology framework in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib - http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showtopic=10552