Ishraqi Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8072158/Mother-hacked-to-death-after-filing-for-divorce.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 What are you trying to show here? Some Cruel Punjabi men killed her but where it is written that the killing was motivated by sikhism. If you want to blame sikhism for this then O.K but also then accept that dawood ibrahim,abu salem and much of the crime world of India is dominated by muslims and islam should be blamed for that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 bit of a cheap shot isnt it ishragi? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 I actually knew that it was going to be about this before i clicked on the thread, you can hardly call them sikhs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaikaara Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 veers why do u get upset by what he shows, yes it is very disheartening that one of our apne was the organiser of such a barbaric act. however, this is a regular thing with 'them', honor killings are thier hobby read this article My link 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 (edited) Why give this confused clown oxygen brothers? Yes, it is a shame and wrong when this type of stuff happens. Few Sikhs are saying otherwise. The clown is obviously trying to use this misfortune to try and alleviate his own dissonance regarding the norms in his new adopted quom. Ishraqi, your new brothers and sisters must be really boring for you to have to keep coming here. Sod off and enjoy your spiritual 'journey' and spare us your tomfoolery. Edited October 19, 2010 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 (edited) Despicable. May the 4 men rot in hell. However, this does'nt seem like a case of honour killing since her family was not involved in it any how. Edited October 19, 2010 by amardeep 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 On the topic of honour killings, has anyone read the Guardian's Robert Fisk's article about honour killings? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 (edited) When white men kill (or try to) their girlfriends/spouses in the UK (and they do). We don't get a breakdown along racial cultural lines. What people must remember is that as despicable as these things area, whitey also have their own agenda of trying to portray other cultures as savage and barbaric in their media. Ultimately though, we ourselves need to try and limit these things by providing support and facilitating good marriage practices that minimise such things. Overall though, is there a widespread problem with apnay blokes killing apneean in the UK? I think not. I'm not saying such things don't occur but like white killings of girlfriends/spouses, they are an aberration, not some sort of norm. We can see a similar situation with that bloke who recently went bezerk in the UK, shooting his girlfriend, perceived boyfriend and a copper. What is startling is that despite this, he had a lot of sympathy from the public and even celebrities. What does that tell you? There is a stereotype of the savage ethnic, oppressing brown man that white society has created and likes to perpetuate when such tragedies happen. We need to be aware of this. Edited October 19, 2010 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 (edited) This is much more common in sullah societies and is even part of their religious laws. There were 50 honour killings in Iran in 2008: http://iranhr.net/spip.php?article803 From the article: According to the paragraph 220 of the Iranian penal law, if a father or grandfather (on father’s side) kill his child or grandchild, he will not be convicted and punished for murder. The rest of Iran's Islamic Penal Code is available here: http://mehr.org/Islamic_Penal_Code_of_Iran.pdf The difference is that honour killings are justified in Islam and are part and parcel of that cult. The justification for honour killings (e.g., the above article in Iranian Islamic penal law) comes from this hadith: The most egregious case in point is the Umdat Al-Salik(“Reliance of the Sojourner” in Arabic), a manual on Shari’a (Islamic law) certified by Al-Azhar University, the most prominent and authoritative institute of Islamic jurisprudence in the world, as a reliable guide to orthodox Sunni Islam. The manual states (01.1-2) that “retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right,” except when “a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers)” kills his or her “offspring, or offspring’s offspring.” Hence, according to this view a parent, who murders his or her son/daughter for the sake of “honor,” whether owing to issues of chastity, apostasy and the like, incurs no penalty under Shari’a. This ruling is derived from a hadith (Sahih Muslim, Book 19, Number 4457) where it is affirmed that one should not kill a child unless one could know “what Khadir had known about the child he killed.” Khadir is a figure featured in the Qur’an who accompanies Moses on a journey and kills a son of believing parents for fear that he would rebel against the will of God (18:74 and 18:80-81). K. Edited October 27, 2010 by Kaljug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishraqi Posted October 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 I had one of my law students in Tehran check your so-called paragraph 220 which you mentionned... The actual paragraph is: "Section 16 A father or paternal grandfather who kills his son (or grandson) shall be liable only to pay the Diyat for the murder to the heirs as a Ta'zeer." Retribution for murder is a right of the victim's family. If the murderer happens to be the father of grandfather the retribution (death penalty) is converted into diyat or a prison sentence. Kind of not the same as the bullcrap you quoted. And why the hell are you qouting flipping Sunni hadiths when talking about Iran? All those spikes in your head must have made your brain gone soft. Also the cases you mentionned have been reported by the Iranian press. We all know there are retrograde elements in Iranian society, but at least Iran doesn't have the world's highest rate for female infanticide.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laalsingh Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 I figured it out. Warring factions are none other than 'love' and 'hate'. What drives you will decide your fate? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishraqi Posted October 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 I figured it out. Warring factions are none other than 'love' and 'hate'. What drives you will decide your fate? Love the Ahl ul Bayt (as), fight their ennemies. Summs up Tashayyu pretty well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laalsingh Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 Love the Ahl ul Bayt (as), fight their ennemies. Summs up Tashayyu pretty well. Love the Guru, fight the enemies. But this does not sum up Sikhi. It is 'tu hi tu, all friends, no enemies' as you progress, like Bhai kanhaiya saw in Chamkaur. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 Why do you guys entertain this moron? Are you really that simple that you can't spot someone baiting you for attention? Ishraqi, we can clearly see the lofty spiritual heights you've attained with your new faith.....bravo. That spiritual vacuum you exist in is as visible as the moon on the clearest of nights. Do yourself (and us) a big favour and salvage whatever soul you have left instead of coming here and trying to poke us. I'm really sorry you couldn't find a spiritual home in Sikhi, I'm sure you have your own gripes with some apnay about this. I can almost empathise. But for God's sake MOVE ON and find your solace elsewhere without revisiting your hurt by coming here. For the sake of your own mental and spiritual wellbeing. Seriously. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 You know you are a walking advert of the failure of your new 'faith' to transform you in a positive fashion. Knock yourself out. Pitiful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 I had one of my law students in Tehran check your so-called paragraph 220 which you mentionned... The actual paragraph is: "Section 16 A father or paternal grandfather who kills his son (or grandson) shall be liable only to pay the Diyat for the murder to the heirs as a Ta'zeer." Retribution for murder is a right of the victim's family. If the murderer happens to be the father of grandfather the retribution (death penalty) is converted into diyat or a prison sentence. The father who kills his child receives a light sentence. LOL, you are repeating exactly what I have said. The following paragraph from unicef says the same thing: http://www.unicef.org/events/yokohama/backgound8.html Sexual violence and abuse within the family is rarely reported and children themselves are largely silent on this issue. Laws in some of the countries also make reporting by children unlikely. For example, under the Jordanian penal code, complaints from a child can only be accepted if they are supported by the parents or guardian. Complaints from third parties � teachers, social workers, child rights workers � are not accepted. Some laws also tolerate violence in the family: for example, Article 220 of the Iranian penal code recognizes only a light sentence and fine for a father who kills his child in the course of administering �educational� punishment. Also the cases you mentionned have been reported by the Iranian press. We all know there are retrograde elements in Iranian society, but at least Iran doesn't have the world's highest rate for female infanticide.... Nope, Iranian Islamic society is retrograde and the government is complicit in Human Rights violations and the silencing of Human Rights activists. See here: http://www.iranhumanrights.org/2010/10/lddhi-campaign-seifzadeh/ and here: http://mehr.org/index_english.htm K. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishraqi Posted November 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 (edited) The father who kills his child receives a light sentence. So....a prison sentence is a light sentence? Just because the father doesn't get executed doesn't mean he doesn't do time in jail. But if you really insist on death sentence as a retribution why not start petitioning your own country (chose UK or India/Khalistan). Again you're throwing at me articles about the Iranian government when it is very clear to anyone who has studied fiqh that the Iranian government has violated essential tenets of Shi'ite jurisprudence. And this is not some liberal human rights group saying but high ranking clerics who have chosen to stay out of the revolutionary government, people like Ayatollah Shirazi whose family has been persecuted under Khamenei for that very reason. Shi'ite fiqh prohibits the intrusion of the authorities into peoples' privacy, it also forbids the imposition of the dîn by force. Amîr ul Mu'minin (as) never had a problem with women who didn't wear the Islamic veil precisely because the hijab is a sign of mu'min (believer) as opposed to being the identity marker of someone who merely submits (muslim) to Allah (swt). Furthermore the Iranian government has banned the buying and carrying of swords whereas the hadith clearly say that it's mustahab. They alsp banned public tabarra against Omar (la), Abu Bakr (la) and Aishah (la). etc etc etc THe idea that somehow Khamenei and his regime are representatives of Shi'ite tradition is simply ludicrous and a sign of profound ignorance. Now as imperfect and doctrinally dubious the laws of the Iranian government may be, there still is a legal system with its good and bad aspects. Now you tell me: what legal system did the panj pyare of Gobind Rai use when they condemned 300 masands to be burnt alive and thrown into a well? I would like to see the legal system that would have justified such a ruling. Now you can't give me the source because there is no such legal source in Sikhism. It is pretty clear that these Masands have been judged without a clear legal framework, condemned to death for offenses that were mostly economical in nature. What rule of law can a citizen of your future Khalsa Raj expect when all decisions are the result of the fantasies of five pindoos? The penalty for stealing an apple might range from paying a fine to getting ones whole family gang raped (as it has happened many times in your region of the world) because of the absence of a clearly defined legal system, which you NEVER EVER HAD. What good can I as a citizen expect from a Guru that gets his disciple slapped for having dirtied his shirt with some plaster while he was plastering his Guru's house? On what basis was that punishment given? Where is the text stating the legality of such an action? There is none because you have no legal whatsoever unlike civilized people. Your rulings are ALL based on the whimps and desires of the council of five pindoos who basically decide what they want. I remember a case at the Paris gurdwara in Bobigny when I lived there: a granthi had stolen money from the golak, the panj pyare decided to have him tied up and kept him in a room. For several weeks people were allowed to visit that room and beat the hell out of him before he was sent back to India. Now...apart from the fact that this is completely illegal in France. The question I have is: on what basis, what legal principles did these panj pyare take that decision? None. They settled for whatever came through their heads. God knows what even happened to that guy when he returned to India. The pradhan's son told me he had his hand cut off apparently. So you can keep on pointing fingers at Iran all you want, but people in Iran are well of the disturbing abuses of the Khamenei regime and his own disrespect for basic tenets of Shiite jurisprudence. Your people can't even be asked to have a legal in the first place let alone have a structure to implement it. Khalsa Raj? yeah right my ass... Calling Iranian people retrograde because of the abuses that their own press reports is frankly taking the piss when your own people can't even be asked to preserve the life of millions of baby girls who are getting slaughtered every single day with the silent consent OF YOUR admin cut SAVAGE COMMUNITY. And your alternative to all of this is what? Drinking cannabis milkshakes and parading around in 18th century arms coz it's maryada like innit like? like? admin cut that shit!!! Edited November 2, 2010 by Ishraqi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 blah blah The sentence for murder of your own child is lighter (if the judge gives him one at all) than any other kind of murder. How clear do I have to make it for you before it gets through your thick head? Has banging your head against the floor 5 times a day in the direction of a metorite damaged your brain to that extent? LOL, keep on telling us how advanced and civilised Islamic regimes are. It is apparent to anyone that Islamic regimes are the mose barbaric, cruel, retrograde and savage of all because their laws are based on the whims of a 7th century bedouin megalomaniacal paedophile who mistook his schizophrenic fantasies for angelic communication. Guess what? Just because some Arab warlord desperate for women and booty to fulfil his base desires tells some gullible camel herders that some lunar war god has told him that his crimes are sanctioned by divine writ doesn't make it divine law. K. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 What I don't get Ishraqi is your motivation? I would have thought that someone in your position would have been glad to finally wash their hands of us savage pindu types and get on with his new found faith....but no, in your case you seem propelled to come back and attempt these strange pokes towards us? I get it, we Panjabis aren't the most welcoming bunch. Get over it already. Anyway, given our 'known' unsophisticated pindufied nature, do you honestly think any one of us would take anything you say with much seriousness? It is really sad that you haven't seemed to have found peace in your new found faith and seem to be projecting some deeply seated malaise towards us as a result. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 The Prem Sumarag deals with government and jurisprudence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 (edited) Ishraqi your views now are in direct opposition to what you held only 3-5 years ago. You considered yourself a scholar then not brooking anyone challenging your views and rubbished anyone who thought differently to you. You now have the same attitude and criticise the one who you called Guru only a few years ago. So what does that tell us about you? Who knows in a few years times you will be coming on here praising L Ron Hubbard after having taken one of those free stress tests! As for Iran, everyone knows it's a shythole, even without the mickey mouse legal system it has chosen to implement and which will get more shyttier once the evil Joos drop a few bombs on it's nuclear reactors. Iranians remind of those stupid scousers waxing lyrical about what a great place Liverpool but they got out of the dump as soon as they could. Edited November 3, 2010 by tonyhp32 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 (edited) I don't get why we need to dis Iran just because of this bundha? As long as Iran isn't messing with Sikhs I haven't got any problem with them. Insulting Iran because goray are, or because a another goray has 'joined' them and is talking crap about Sikhi doesn't seem warranted. Why are some of you going down that route? Edited November 3, 2010 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 I agree with Dal Singh. Let's not insult Iran because of Ishraqi. He's not even an Iranian, he just has a strange fetish with Persian culture. Iran is a great nation, it's culture is a very refined culture and Farsi itself is a great language, let us not degrade Iran, Farsi, Persian people because of this "man". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted November 3, 2010 Report Share Posted November 3, 2010 I agree with Dal Singh. Let's not insult Iran because of Ishraqi. He's not even an Iranian, he just has a strange fetish with Persian culture. Iran is a great nation, it's culture is a very refined culture and Farsi itself is a great language, let us not degrade Iran, Farsi, Persian people because of this "man". Apparently they're going to stone some woman to death.. what was that you were saying about refined..? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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