Mr Sardar Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 I know, I know this topic has been discussed again and again, however alot of members on this forum board are generally not for khalistan. Certain factors we need to take into account is that sikhs believe in a secular state, religious freedom so a state where any religion can live, sikhs believe in freedom of speach. However under India sikhism is being repressed on many grounds and slowly integrated in hinduism by intermarriages and slowly decreasing punjabi language in punjab (it is being kept alive outside of punjab)- Sikhism is not taught properly. The akal takht highest body of sikhs is controlled by state goverment who take bribes and are controlled by central goverment. Sikhs are slowly killed off silently since 1947, 1984 and till today. For the preservation of the sikh religion a state of khalistan would have to be drafted it can be a democratic goverment understood as a republic of sikhism and something which would take the united nations to do more then ever something from the UK and USA to pass forward sikhs today in punjab openly want khalistan alot are not happy under India and most sikhs (amritdhari) do not have a linked identity with India and repressed in bollywood for along time, past sikh states such as punjab, haryana and delhi sikhs are rare and few in number. f we make sure we do not make the same mistake muhammad ali jinnah did by ethnically cleansing the khalistan state we would have a chance of people not dieing however it puts a risk on another religious group one day rising to rebel against the state. There are alot of Sikhs in canada pro this noition but I have not heard anyone present anything actually practical for khalistan yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) With the infrastructure of sikhism under fantaic hindus sikhism ability to sprout past and reach it's potentials are limited. For your next generation to be secured to marrying sikhs to happens better priest hood is required, better brotherhood, the akal takht is out of control of the sikhs. Akal takht sahib has no real power the chief minister of punjab (real secularism) will always over rule the jathedar. In addition most akal takht sahib jathedars are illiterate and should be linked in some form of networking with punjab universities. Badal should bow to the akal takht instead of having it bow to him, even maharaja ranjit singh bowed to the akal takht and took rullings from it rather then giving it to them. Edited March 5, 2011 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 where did you come up with the idea that most akaal takht sahib jathedars are illiterate most are actually scholars you should get your facts straight before you go on these diatribes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 most are actually scholars Really? Just a cursory glance backwards at some jathedars during my own lifetime: Ragi Darshan 'Anti DG' Singh - is he a scholar? Jathedar Ranjit Singh - respected for serving time for alleged assassination but no scholar Jathedar Joginder Singh 'Vedanti' - could arguably be called a scholar though I've always wondered why his work Chevin padshah was withdrawn by the SGPC themselves Don't know anything about the current Jathedar, Gurbachan Singh. But it's hard not to think he is a Badal fill in for the beleaguered previous jathedar? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Sikhs are slowly killed off silently since 1947, 1984 and till today. For the preservation of the sikh religion a state of khalistan would have to be drafted it can be a democratic goverment understood as a republic of sikhism and something which would take the united nations to do more then ever something from the UK and USA to pass forward sikhs today in punjab openly want khalistan alot are not happy under India and most sikhs (amritdhari) do not have a linked identity with India and repressed in bollywood for along time, past sikh states such as punjab, haryana and delhi sikhs are rare and few in number. What is the percentage of Sikhs that want Khalistan?With The present demography of Punjab Even if you carve Punjab out of India and conduct Free elections Then a Badal type of person will become President as the Amritdhari Sikhs are very much in minority 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 I thought Badal was Amritdhari? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 I thought Badal was Amritdhari? Badal may be Amritdhari but he is not the kind of person what Khalistani's want to rule over Khalistani.But If Khalistan is carved out with present demography there is every possibility that Government will be Sikh Hindu mix as Hindu's already are 40% of Punjab's population 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Really? Just a cursory glance backwards at some jathedars during my own lifetime: Ragi Darshan 'Anti DG' Singh - is he a scholar? Jathedar Ranjit Singh - respected for serving time for alleged assassination but no scholar Jathedar Joginder Singh 'Vedanti' - could arguably be called a scholar though I've always wondered why his work Chevin padshah was withdrawn by the SGPC themselves Don't know anything about the current Jathedar, Gurbachan Singh. But it's hard not to think he is a Badal fill in for the beleaguered previous jathedar? Ragi Darshan Singh is a scholar, a scholar of music, and has great knowlegde of raags hence the ragi. all of the jathedars have a great knowledge of gurmat, they aint thick, but they are subject to whims of the political leaders of the sgpc. the sgpc chooses the jathedars, so they end up being compliant, or being forced out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) Out of the sikhs of punjab only 2% wear turbans, all of punjab has become drug infested- prakash singh badal has robbed all the sangats money put it in his pocket and is a puppet of the central goverment. Regardless why is he controlling akal takht all around the world religion broke away from state that is what secularism is- maharaja ranjit singh bowed to akali phoola singh the history of the akal takht is that it is higher then state- piri is slightly higher then miri even in the chanda in amritsar( ). As for akal takht sahib jathedar it would probably be best to organise terms of changing them for voting. The growth of khalistan should be done from the bottom up so people and groups getting together moving upwards not from top down. It starts with us getting the movement of detaching akal takht sahib from chief minister of punjab and giving proper power to our jathedar and electing someone worth while. Even recently delhi has detached from amrtisars sgpc sarna has gona against badal, badal's own nephew has gone against him. It is time we detach the power of the chief minister from the akal takht so sikhs can actually control the akal takht and pass rullings for the sikhs. Badal puts a jathedar in place as a puppet he controls. It is after 1984 the goverment started to use badal as a political puppet for there games so no one like sant jarnail singh ever goes against them they have been trying to kill sikhi off ideoligically slowly as the sikh religion and khalsa rulling opposes brahminsm and bowing to brahmins. For the sikhs the akal takht was even higher then the moghul empire imagine what would have happened if the moghuls controlled the akalt takht and it's jathedar hence why ahmed shah abdali attacked it just like operation blue star. Had the moghuls controlled the akal takht they would be able to slowly shape sikhs towards islam (moving us from nitnem to namaz now we are being moved from nitnem towards pooja and gayatri mantars etc.)- now sikhs are being slowly put towards hinduism. Khalistan or a proper secular india protecting the rights of religion starts by sikhs taking back the akal takht from these new massands and separting the akal takht from the chief minister of punjab and arising this awarness. Even the british tried to shape sikhs towards them they built a clock tower hence why sikhs fought for independence- which the sikhs destroyed after independence. Real scholars literate amritdharis should be controlling the akal takht and being the jathedar having better networks. Like when master tara singh threw the dasam granth out of the akal takht we have been down hill after maharaja ranjit singh lost his rule and been the slaves of other people we as sikhs were better off under mughal rule compared to what we have now. Sikhs and akal takht were attacked because of fundamenalist muslims who wanted there religion on india and nearly got there- and now we have fundamental hindus who want there way and are really having there way with sikhs ideolgically. Maharaja ranjit singh may have been corrupt but he did not control the akal takht- akali phoola singh was a gursikh of that time- imagine what could have happened to sikhi- alot of gianis were honest as well there are stories of that time- now the gianis we have that are honest are not appreciated because our politicians do not respect them but control them. Look what happened in 1984 when sant jarnail singh refused to become congresses the central goverment's puppet. Even in gurdwaras the mukht sewadar the president is supposed to respect the giani but I have seen many instance infact the abuse the giani and then all of these giani corruption cases doing dodgy things. In addition to that system to place someone in the power of hari singh nalwa and other generals would be giving a position of a board of representation to maybe head of police and head of sikh regiment to have some voice of contact to akal takht sahib but the overall sikh state was impovered by akali phoola singh after he was killed off no one has ever properly taken his seat. Even vedanti started to support khalistan alot of these jathedars got fed up- infact all the sangat can disconnect the power of the chief minister of punjab from akal takht and impower the jathedar. Edited March 5, 2011 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) giani gurbachan singh has been appointed by badal he has no real power there should be elections for such jathedars with cvs who have such position and for limited terms however should have real authority the sikh rulling and religion start from akal takht. The jathedar is supposed to be the most proper sikh and ideal role model of the whole sikh quom not a puppet. Edited March 5, 2011 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Post #9 is a great post. Truth is that a sikh state needs to protect our own faith, culture and heritage but not stop others practicing their faith. Having said that any treason and attempts to undermine the sikhs state would have to be dealt with severely to keep troublemaking non-sikhs and foreigner loving sikhs in line. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 we need to start with putting the akal takht back into the hands of sikhs that is what sikhs need to do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Also can someone get the akal takht sgpc and giani gurbachan singh onto twitter so we can actually get points accross to him all around the world or facebook or a website or email- to contact the staff properly straight to the sgpc so sikh faith matters can be discussed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 First thing is first, the SGPC needs to be completely independent of Shiromani Akali Dal or any other political party. SGPC should be run by rehetvaan Sikhs. SGPC can do great things for Sikhs worldwide if only in the right hands. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) Prakash singh badal set fire to the indian constition for that he should be according to india's law in jail for lifetime- also some of the people like tytler and modi and others for acts of genocide should be in jail without bail- the police of india is corrupt to the lowest level atleast india needs to stop the smallest officers from being corrupt. Most of India's politicians should be in jail right now. Mithar how do we rise this revolution this lair how do we do it? Either the sgpc is being outsmarted right now or a show to the public and not even sikh- I personally think they are being outsmarted at the moment we only need them to declare independence from chief minister. Sikhism is an international body that has no connection to the goverment of India. Edited March 5, 2011 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) Guru gobind singh's own sons did not bow to the moghuls when it came to them being bricked alive- why are we bowing to the akali dal or congress- i.e. the brahmin parties. The akal takht is a higher authority to a sikh then to any element or entire goverment of india. Edited March 5, 2011 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) What the akali dal are doing is bedbi- it is dishonour to the whole sikh quom. Prakash singh badal has sat himself above guru panth. Edited March 5, 2011 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) "During the eighteenth century, the Sarbat Khalsa issued Hukamnama-s to the Sikhs for manifold purposes. Through one Hukamnama, Akal Takht Sahib asked the Sikhs to release the wife of a Brahmin (Hindu of priestly class) whom the Afghan Chief of Kasur had carried away. In 1759, Sarbat Khalsa issued a Hukamnama to the Sikhs to send funds for the reconstruction of the Sikh shrines. After the British annexation of the Sikh Homeland, Akal Takht Sahib was misused by the occupying managers. A Hukamnama against Professor Gurmukh Singh was issued in 1879. A Hukamnama, it has been said, was issued against the Ghadar Party workers. There is no direct evidence of the issuance of such a Hukamnama. As these two and alike Hukamnamas were not in accordance with the Sikh ideology, hence the Sikh nation rejected them." ... "Since 1979, Akal Takht has been used by the Akali leaders for their factional activities. As a result the institution of Akal Takht Sahib has suffered a lot. The caretaker (whom they wrongly call Jathedar) of the Takht has been acting as an agent of the ruling Akali faction. Specially under the reign of Kirpal Singh Badungar, Akal Takht caretaker has acted as an ordinary Akali worker, loyal to the president of the SGPC. This is mockery of the institution. Akal Takht Sahib which is the greatest seat of the Sikh Panth has been defiled by the Akali leadership. Akal Takht is not a court of mediation between factions, groups; nor it is an industrial tribunal to decide disputes. Akal Takht Sahib should not deal with each and every case like an ordinary tribal court. It should deal with only those issues which are of national importance and the Hukamnamas should be issued only after a Gurmata has been passed by the Sarbat Khalsa. What is Sarbat Khalsa is still a moot point. In the present circumstances, a meeting of all the Sikhs is not possible. In such a situation the representatives of all those parties and institutions, which are loyal to Akal Takht Sahib plus the Sikh intelligentsia, should form the Sarbat Khalsa. This is not the final formula. The Sikh intelligentsia can discuss the procedure to for Sarbat Khalsa. But, the president of the SGPC appointing a caretaker of Akal Takht as per his political need is against Sikh philosophy. AND the caretaker issuing Hukamnamas of his personal whim in association with 4 more priests, in line with the SGPC president is still further un-Sikh like. The Sikhs should stop playing games with the Sikh fundamentals." http://www.sikhmarg.com/english/akal.html Edited March 5, 2011 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) Fighting in gurdwara over the jathedar being a rss agent and new york police come in with shoes on into guru darbar. Edited March 5, 2011 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 It comes down to people standing up to a bully the panj pyare and jathedar and sarbat khalsa not letting badal or akali dal to assert any authroity onto akal takht it can even start by denying him entry to amritsar until he knows his role. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 beware of sikh marg and related publications. i used to read those regularly. They are the work of unspiritual pseudoscholars, many of whom are actually enemies of the sikh panth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zulu Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 I wonder what happens tomorrow at the singh sahba elections.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted March 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) http://panthic.org/articles/3990 "AKALI DAL BADAL LEADER CAUGHT TRANSPORTING HEROIN" http://panthic.org/articles/3295 http://panthic.org/articles/4463 BADAL PROMISES REVIVAL OF ANTI-SIKH �NAMDHARI' CULT http://panthic.org/articles/3196 http://panthic.org/articles/3484 http://panthic.org/articles/3153 http://panthic.org/articles/3057 http://www.panthic.org/news/125/ARTICLE/2581/2006-06-25.html http://panthic.org/articles/3106 http://www.panthic.org/articles/2957 And that is a sikh goverment have we as a community lost our mind? When it came to any terrorist activity that took place in punjab in 1984 it was done by prakash singh badal not sant jarnail singh bhindranwala and now he is controlling punjab, the akali dal and the akal takht. Bear in mind I am not saying captain arminder singh is any better both are corrupt politicians who should have any control of the akal takht- captain arminder singh belongs to hindu congress party both are just puppets who should have no authority on akal takht sahib. If a politicans speaks the truth they will probably kill them like they did to sant jarnail singh bhindranwala. We as sarbat khalsa have to get akal takht free. Badal promised he would free people who were put in jail in 1984 out of jail no one was set free infact systematic killings still take place in punjab till today slowly. there a facebook thing here http://www.facebook.com/pages/Gurdwaras-SGPC-for-all-mankind-NOT-for-Sukhbir-Akali-Dal-only/148660375180861 Edited March 6, 2011 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbreakable Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 I am all in favour of a Independant Sikh State. But I see only one problem, we have no Sikhs to populate it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbreakable Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Also can someone get the akal takht sgpc and giani gurbachan singh onto twitter so we can actually get points accross to him all around the world or facebook or a website or email- to contact the staff properly straight to the sgpc so sikh faith matters can be discussed. Can you shed some more light on how Maharaja Ranjit Singh was corrupt? And when did Master Tara Singh throw Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji out of akal takht? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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