Prof Darshan Promoting Meat Eating

[SikhKhoj]

Why would Sikhi borrow main articles of faith from another religion, flawed deities? What kind of study have you done to suggest Rehatnamas are authentic and professor Padam who studied them all life, bhought Rehatnamas to mainstream openly admitted in the preface that they were all later writings.

[SikhKhoj]

everything but naam is a foreign element to our bodies

Food? Have you read what Gurbani says about food.

[GtLoc]

Food? Have you read what Gurbani says about food.

Yeah, depending on what you mean.

I meant that everything but naam, is but a part of the temporal world.

[chatanga1]

I fully agree 500%

Drugs should be taken only in medications etc.

Jhatka should only be done in war times.

should yudh-mai bani should only be read in war times?

and practice of shashtar?

Edited March 4, 2014 by chatanga1

[Jonny101]

should yudh-mai bani should only be read in war times?

and practice of shashtar?

No because Bani whether it is Dasam or Aad, it should be read by all Sikhs because Bani cleanses the Mann of Janam Janam di Mail. And practice of self defence should be practiced by all to protect one's self and Dharm.

This cannot be equated to consuming Sharab and Kabob which is a Kalyugi trait

Edited March 4, 2014 by Jonny101

[chatanga1]

but why pick and choose?

Gurbani says that eating meat is not a kalyugi trait. you know this.

[Jonny101]

but why pick and choose?

Gurbani says that eating meat is not a kalyugi trait. you know this.

It's not about picking and choosing. It is about using one's Bibek Budh which is the ability to discern what is Good and what is Bad according to Gurmat. Eating meat is a Malech attribute and today is only done for Jeeb Rass(Jabaan da Chaska). Malech attributes should be avoided if one want to walk on the path of Gurmat Aatam Marg.

Originally somethings may have been done to keep one self alive if there was nothing else to eat or to check if an enemy is not among our ranks i.e. some suspected Muslim spy who was pretending to be a Sikh was probably fed pork to see if he is a Muslim or not(this test worked fine as a lie detector test does today). Over time, due to the numerous genocides and as the older generation died off, the new converts to the faith began to bring into the Sikh faith non Sikh practices such as eating meat, taking drugs. These non Sikh practices were allowed to be considered normal in our religion. This was how normal Sikhs were until the rise of Damdami Taksal parchar during the 70s-90s which again revived vegetarianism among the Amritdhari Sikhs. Thanks to this, today it is considered a taboo for an amritdhari to eat meat or do drugs. We need another Sant Jee for another round of revival.

[das]

To all those who support Meat Eating:

• It has been told numerous times by Ghost/Bhoots/Negative-Powers (one example of Suleman who was a Ghost but given human birth by Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji) that they (Negative-Powers) are attracted (or say easy prey) to persons who are meat eaters and wine drinkers. It does mean that meat and wine does make the person spiritually less strong.
  
  There are many rituals in this world (e.g in Kaula and Mishra school of Tantra but NOT in Samaya school) which does use meat even for spiritual purposes but that is used for the powers that reside in the lower chakras. Basically, they are taking help of those super-natural forces to awaken the kundlini power so that it can go up and reach Trikuti. But why to take such a risky path??
  
• Some say Guru Ji did approve hunting along with meat eating. This is half-truth; Guru Ji did hunting; Guru Nanak did write about the debate of meat-eaters vs vegetarians. But that does not mean that we should mimic that. If we say that no Guru Ji allowed it, then Guru Ji also allowed to fight for injustice, Guru Ji also allowed to sacrifice one's whole family etc. etc. Why don't we copy that?
  
• One plain question: What all Spiritual Granths (including Guru Granth Sahib Ji) say about Diet: Eat Simple. Basically, we eat to live. Period. At-least I don't understand the concept of eating meat in today's environment when there are so many simple things to eat. Why you want to eat risky stuff?? Moreover, those who are deadly against the meat-eaters, keep in mind the tuks that Guru Nanak Dev Ji had for this debate and secondly, in almost 98% packaged foods available in market does have some form of animal ingredient (obviously under chemical name). But you know Kaal wants us to keep debating and forget the real purpose of this human birth.
  
  Bottom line is: Eat simple which is conductive to our physical body (a temple of God) and also conductive to our Spiritual progress (which is the aim of this human birth). Meat and Liquor does not seem to fit this condition.

Edited March 5, 2014 by das

[OnPathToSikhi]

Going through some of the discussions here, it seems that we are more focused on the brahman like traits of do's and dont's. People who consider them Sikhs should feel fortunate that our Gurus have established a very simplified way of like. Kirt karo, Naam japo and Wand Ke chako. What would be so difficult to understand here? Feel fortunate that our Gurus have freed us of such mental bondage. IMHO eating or not eating meat is a non issue. Eventually Gurbani elevates oneself and the desire to eat meat may no longer exist, much so that daal-phoolka would start making sense. Should everyone need to be reminded of Bhai Lehna Ji's sakhi related to the dead body? Follow Gurbani and get on the path to righteousness. For ones favoring eating meat, remember ants, wolves, crows, vultures, rats, etc eat meat too. For ones favoring being vegetarian, remember the water that you drink may have living organisms, the raw vegetables that you eat may have living organisms, well, you may have swallowed a mosquito, fly, etc... Now what? Gurus have stressed that our good deeds and actions will make us what we are, not food, so why this foolish discussion. Most of the veer-phen here are guni-vidhwani, so why I sense that people are starting on the wrong note. The span of Sikhi and our Gurus is infinite beyond doubt, but IMHO doing/not-doing certain things will not help in realizing the truth, ONLY Naam Gurbani will.

Chardi Kala!

[chatanga1]

It's not about picking and choosing. It is about using one's Bibek Budh which is the ability to discern what is Good and what is Bad according to Gurmat. Eating meat is a Malech attribute and today is only done for Jeeb Rass(Jabaan da Chaska). Malech attributes should be avoided if one want to walk on the path of Gurmat Aatam Marg.

Originally somethings may have been done to keep one self alive if there was nothing else to eat or to check if an enemy is not among our ranks i.e. some suspected Muslim spy who was pretending to be a Sikh was probably fed pork to see if he is a Muslim or not(this test worked fine as a lie detector test does today). Over time, due to the numerous genocides and as the older generation died off, the new converts to the faith began to bring into the Sikh faith non Sikh practices such as eating meat, taking drugs. These non Sikh practices were allowed to be considered normal in our religion. This was how normal Sikhs were until the rise of Damdami Taksal parchar during the 70s-90s which again revived vegetarianism among the Amritdhari Sikhs. Thanks to this, today it is considered a taboo for an amritdhari to eat meat or do drugs. We need another Sant Jee for another round of revival.

So are you arrogant enough to assume your bibek budhi speaks for everyone? You talk about jeeb rass, but what does Gurbani say about it? Gurbani does not say eating meat is a malech attribute. Its just your ignorance, (a malech attribute) that makes you think you know everything. This ignorance will not help you walk on Gurmat Aatam Marg.

I'm surprised that you denigrate and insult Gurbani to the extent of trying to "prove" that Gurmat is a veggie path only.

Eventually Gurbani elevates oneself and the desire to eat meat may no longer exist, much so that daal-phoolka would start making sense.

no, even daal-phoolka would be a desire of the tongue. If one did elevate themselves, they would be living on rukhi-suki roti, and thanda paani alone. Gurbani is testament to this.

[Lucky]

Eventually Gurbani elevates oneself and the desire to eat meat may no longer exist, much so that daal-phoolka would start making sense.

no, even daal-phoolka would be a desire of the tongue. If one did elevate themselves, they would be living on rukhi-suki roti, and thanda paani alone. Gurbani is testament to this.

Both posts totally on track !

The end point of discussion should not be that elevated=veggie, veggie=elevated, or veggie-right compared to meat...etc..etc.....

But the end-point should be that it is absolutely foolish to argue about the taste of tongue.

Guru-Nanak ji says, that only fools argue about flesh and they KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MEDITATION.

So, when you follow this to go and find out with practice of meditation, then you too will realize how foolish it is to argue about justifying veggie/meat or quite simply the 'rights for the taste of the tongue'

So yes, chatanga ji is right to point that even justifying daal phoolka is itself, foolish talk about taste.

[das]

Think about it deeply who ARE doing meditation/simran, is it really the taste of tongue? I don't think so, tongue does NOT enjoy. It is the Mind which enjoys the taste via the sense of taste. e.g whenever we're really very sad or depressed, then we don't really enjoy any good food.

My take is:

• Following vegetarian diet without meditation is like putting good quality fuel in the car but not starting the car to continue the journey. We might increase the life span of the car's engine and will also get a reward from the quality controllers (Dharamraj). Another example would be what would be the use of cow (vegetarian) if she does not give milk? So, Guru Nanak Dev Ji's tuks (debate on vegetarian vs non-vegetarian) applies here as we are still in the field of Mind and therefore it does not matter if we go with Mind's one vs the another taste. To the real truth searchers it (Rewards by quality controllers) does not matter as their ultimate aim (Ek-Onkar) is above and beyond the Mind.
• On the other hand, if one is non-vegetarian and still do NOT do any meditation. Think about putting the waste liquid in the car. They will get punishment from the quality controllers (dharamraj).
• Now, let's say non-vegetarian also does the extensive meditation, then as he/she is also putting waste liquid (highly bad fuel) then his car (human body) might get low mileage and also run the risk of engine failure (death); he might not be able to complete his journey with that car (human body). If the person has insurance (Guru), then he will get another car but with high premiums. So, we can say that he is responsible for the bad fuel (bad karma) in first place and had to pay for it (in shape of high premiums).
• For a vegetarian person and also doing meditation, there is NO need for him to start eating meat based upon the tuks of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Here the tuks are intrepreted wrongly implying that it is okay to eat meat as long as you're on path (meditation/simran) and not indulging in debate.

In this world of Kal, we are already getting lot of bad karma when we drink plain water, eat plain grain, breathing because all these things do include living beings being killed. Then if we are already in this so complex thing of karma, why to collect more explicit bad karma by eating meat (killing of animals exclusively for the taste of tongue / enjoyment of mind)? Think about it.

At the same time, it is also true that God is beyond the karma and Guru can nullify the karma in order to provide the salvation to the Jeev. But also keep in mind that Guru comes only after one have certain good karmas acquired and if one does the bad deeds after getting the Guru, then Guru has to bear the consequences of those bad karams. You can treat this as personal experience from my past human birth in which I was indulged in meat (less) and liquor (main issue) and my Guru did mention in my dreams in that birth to stop doing that. I didn't heed to his guidance and it eventually lead to my physical death in previous birth. Now, in this birth as of now, my mind never wanted (Guru's Grace) meat and liquor even in my college life it never occurred to me to have liquor. But I do know that if I ever start having liquor then I'll be taking in either good or bad times i.e everyday. So, hale tak Guru de kirpa ha.

Edited March 9, 2014 by das

[singh1984]

Yeah sant only should not eat. Sikh is soldier, so end of debate. Sikh refusing to fight is not sikh, as sikh is not recluse.

Udasi or Nirmala is soldier of spiritual battlefield. I think they are vegetarian, that is fine.

To say Sikh cannot eat meat, is blatant lie. It is treason,

[Jonny101]

Yeah sant only should not eat. Sikh is soldier, so end of debate. Sikh refusing to fight is not sikh, as sikh is not recluse.

Udasi or Nirmala is soldier of spiritual battlefield. I think they are vegetarian, that is fine.

To say Sikh cannot eat meat, is blatant lie. It is treason,

I don't want to add to this debate of meat because Gurbani says Maas Maas Kar Moorakh Jhagre. So there is no point.

But I want to ask what has meat got to do with being a soldier or being able to fight? No one can deny that the Shaheed Singhs in 84 were all vegetarian while the meat eating Nihangs were scared to fight and joined Indira Gandhi. So what does this prove? Ironically the few Nihangs who did fight and become Shaheed in 84 had also become vegetarians after doing Sangat of Sant Jee.

I'm not saying meat eaters are not brave. But the point I'm making is, it is the Power of Baani that makes Sikhs brave not their diet. One should take notice of the amount of Baani Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale used to read everyday. Besides Nitnem, he recited entire Panj Granthi and also 100 Japji Sahib Paaths besides reading many Angs of Guru Granth Sahib Jee daily. With so much Bhagti one acquires a great amount of Shakti. This is what made Puraatan Singhs so brave and fierce fighters.

[singh1984]

The tarna dal fielded 100,000 soldiers right outside of Amritsar.

Your propaganda, while funny is delusional. You show no evidence either, that the nihangs gave up their rehat or that the Sikhs there were vegetarian.

Instead without knowing the details of why the Bhudda Dal did not participate in the movement you attribute it to cowardice.

There is a special place on the sooli reserved for gaddars like you.

KHALSA JI This is the reality of these sant gyani types.

Now that I see what kind of person you are, I wish to have no association.

Edited March 9, 2014 by singh1984

[dalsingh101]

There is a special place on the sooli reserved for gaddars like you.

What is a sooli? I always thought it was slang for a Muslim bird?

[PAL 07]

End of the day you only eat meat because you beleive it to be nutrional, but buffalo milk is far more nutrious and so are beans/pulses, almonds and maize flour. Gurmat siddhant is alap ahaar and alap nindra. (reduction in sleep and food) This does NOT mean that when you do eat that it should not be nutrious infact to the contrary. Thats why if you see the langar during Guru's times it used to be highly nutritious. Same applies to sleep - when you do go to sleep you make sure you sleep well.

The Gurmat siddant is that the khalsa are not a bunch of lazy dozy day dreamers and when it comes to diet their food is nutritious but they are not food junkies (labh) interested in eating out/fine dining and yes all types of tasty non veg dishes. This is what Kabeer is saying in the shabad Koob khanee kicheree.

Gurbani clearly is against meat but contradicts sikh history.

Edited March 9, 2014 by PAL 07

[Jonny101]

The tarna dal fielded 100,000 soldiers right outside of Amritsar.

Your propaganda, while funny is delusional. You show no evidence either, that the nihangs gave up their rehat or that the Sikhs there were vegetarian.

Instead without knowing the details of why the Bhudda Dal did not participate in the movement you attribute it to cowardice.

There is a special place on the sooli reserved for gaddars like you.

KHALSA JI This is the reality of these sant gyani types.

Now that I see what kind of person you are, I wish to have no association.

okay maybe it is not cowardice. I take my word back on this. But it was a Dhokha and betrayal non the less. They had three options. One was to join Sant Jee, the second was to stay neutral and the third was to join Indira Gandhi. And they chose the last and worst option. Even if they stayed neutral, it would not have been that bad. But joining Indira Gandhi was the worst thing an Amritdhari Rehetvaan Sikh can do. That's almost like a Sikh joining Aurangzeb's side during the battle of Chamkaur.

[Jonny101]

and you mentioned a 100,000 Nihang soldiers being outside Amritsar. Was this during operation bluestar?

[aksantali]

there were nihangs that supported sant ji and the movement....the man in my pic was a nihang..

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

and you mentioned a 100,000 Nihang soldiers being outside Amritsar. Was this during operation bluestar?

Read A.R. Darshi's the gallant defender. 140,000 individuals were led by Akali-Nihung Daya Singh Ji of the Baba Bidhi Chand Dal. Even though Santa Singh did not support Sant Ji (he had his own reasons) the Budha-Dal fielded Bhai Amrik Singh Jhaeru as a separate commander. There were a lot of Nihungs from all Dals who support the Dharam Yudh Morcha. Just because they eat meat doesn't mean they are all traitors. Second thing look at what the Akalis did. That was outright betrayal

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

there were nihangs that supported sant ji and the movement....the man in my pic was a nihang..

The Baba Bidhi Chand Dal.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

The tarna dal fielded 100,000 soldiers right outside of Amritsar.

Your propaganda, while funny is delusional. You show no evidence either, that the nihangs gave up their rehat or that the Sikhs there were vegetarian.

Instead without knowing the details of why the Bhudda Dal did not participate in the movement you attribute it to cowardice.

There is a special place on the sooli reserved for gaddars like you.

KHALSA JI This is the reality of these sant gyani types.

Now that I see what kind of person you are, I wish to have no association.

The Budha Dal were involved.

http://tisarpanth.blogspot.co.nz/2013/11/the-ascension.html?view=timeslide

[Jonny101]

Read A.R. Darshi's the gallant defender. 140,000 individuals were led by Akali-Nihung Daya Singh Ji of the Baba Bidhi Chand Dal. Even though Santa Singh did not support Sant Ji (he had his own reasons) the Budha-Dal fielded Bhai Amrik Singh Jhaeru as a separate commander. There were a lot of Nihungs from all Dals who support the Dharam Yudh Morcha. Just because they eat meat doesn't mean they are all traitors. Second thing look at what the Akalis did. That was outright betrayal

Baba Daya Singh Jee and Baba Nihal Singh Jee are inspirational Singhs who have the respect of the Panth.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Baba Daya Singh Jee and Baba Nihal Singh Jee are inspirational Singhs who have the respect of the Panth.

aksantali makes a very valid point. Don't be like the Khalibans on Sikhsangat who run around spreading utter garbage regarding Nihungs and purataan Sampradas. I am reading one of the posts on that forum and I am shocked at how some individuals label others as 'dogs' because they do not agree with their opinions. That is the mentality which has divided the panth today. Eating meat does not make you more or less of a saint or soldier. Individualism counts as well.