dalsingh101 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Don't know what this is all about?? http://www.punjabspectrum.tv/sikh/police-enter-gurdwara-karamsar-ilford-uk/#sthash.KAIaVNrp.dpbs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 General observation from outsider... yet again more problems in gurdwaras in england usually involving youths..England seems like shit hole place to live for practicing sikh, we have no issues like that for most part in canada, every sikhs know the fine line-live and let life...it appears in england you got more self righteous cactus jacks /singhs who got chip on their shoulder crowd than live and let live crowd......!! I have hung around with many taksali in canada,, they are most chilled out people i know..compare to taksali youths in uk, who are self righteous condescending outright pricks...even akj in canada are so mellow in canada, don't even know they exist, they are peaceful and do their own thing- rehansbhai and stuff. Looks like england sikh youths regardless if its taksali, akj, nihangs having a serious problem with integration with wider egalitarian western values which is compatible over gurbani message -of freedom of speech, freedom of liberty, equal rights for humanity, so far they have segregated themselves in ghetto causing all kind of tribal issues in the community. I predict if sikhs youths in england don't pay attention, they probably end up facing bigger problems like muslim youths ghettos in france will further cause all kind of issues- rioting, fighting amongst each other, violence, fascism etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 We could do with a reboot over here. Need to get creative. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Lol @ reboot. yea that might be needed...looks like lot of communities comes to england with sense of entitlement eh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sat1176 Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I know this gurdwara well. Whilst the sangat were on to a good thing by wanting to do their own santiya class, they should have consulted and had prior agreement from the gurdwara management. We all know you can't just walk into a gurdwara because it has an empty hall and start using it for your own purposes, even if it for a good cause. If there wasn't a overseeing management structure in place there would be chaos in the running of gurdware and everyone would be helping themselves to the facilities. Videos relating to incident have gone viral on facebook within the Sikh community locally. Personally I think it is being blown well out of proportion. Rather than addressing the core issue the group were facing i.e. not having a place to do their santiya class they are now more interested in defaming the gurdwara by showing videos of police wearing shoes outside the darbar hall and sachkhand. Yes the general sangat are supposed to leave their shoes downstairs but I guess in the case of the police an exception was made by the secretary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAL 07 Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Seeing all the problems in Gurdwaras some of the reasons are because: Committee of elders see their priority as normal smooth day to day running of the temple. Booking weddings, Akhand Paath, Sukhmani Sahib, Langar, Birthdays etc. They often see the Gurdwara solely as a source of income which is then used towards Kabbadi tournaments or sponsorship of people like Sarbjeet Gunda aswell as on Nagar Keertan etc. However they do not consider the needs and problems arising form their community. Committees don't see themselves as sevadaars but as the authoritive management who have power, wheras a Gurdwara is maintained by the congregations wishes and suggestions. Any serious matter should require engagement with the sangat and not a sole decision by the Committee overnight. Akal Takhat Hukamnamas also have to be implemented. The youth see the Gurdwara as their true home; a place of spirituality and a place from where they can do parchaar, hold classes, do numerous activities such as sport event/social activities etc. Very often i see committee's very reluctant to help the youth because they are only interested in the day to day running of the Gurdwara and that the youth are seen as immature who make a lot of noise and fuss and abuse the facilities provided to them (which is true such as not cleaning a room after use). Now in this case and many other times when the Police are called - the result is only disgrace to the Sikh Community and disrespect of Guru Granth Sahib. In my opinion the committee should not have called the police but allowed a proper santhiya class to take place, but with the condition that their needs to be some leadership of this class and somebody accountable who can come and speak with the management committee to resolve any issues. Making cheap youtube videos and slandering each party is a deestructive way to go about a problem. The major problem with Gurdwaras today is what i call the 'old age kingship syndrome' - old age Sikhs do not wish to transfer management of the Gurdwara to young, educated, skillful and firm faithed Sikhs who can bring the Gurdwara into the 21st Century. They have this mentality of authority/possessiveness, politics and shame and fame game. Gurdwaras are predominantly managed by people in their 50' /60's and don't have any knowledge of Sikhism and don't live to the ideals of the Khalsa. for example many will have cut beards etc. Until the youth and their needs are not addressed problems will increase. Any management committee needs to see themselves as those who have been selected/elected to do the most seva for the Gurdwara and the sangat, and not behave like George Bush does. Gurdwara is a place of worship and is not the place for political rivaries and abuse of power/trust. Those that want to play politics should go and join a political party. Also the youth need to grow up and engage in dialogue through having a structure of leadership based on those persons who have a record of seva and simran. Simply resolving to complete igorance of the management committee is not the solution. The youth need to raise their voice and concerns in a more politically coherent way rather than ingnoring and slandering the management. There is not one Gurdwara managed in the UK by young British born Sikhs. I think they should be given a chance to prove themselves capable of not causing dramas and violence in a place of worship/ spirituality and solace. Though i very much doubt they are upto the challenge Edited March 12, 2014 by PAL 07 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Lol @ reboot. yea that might be needed...looks like lot of communities comes to england with sense of entitlement eh? I think there is a case for people picking up on the VERY english disposition to believe you are special and thus entitled to more i.e. entitled to the wealth, land and women of lesser breeds. lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aksantali Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 youth needs to apart of gurdwara committe's now some of these old dudes are crazy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 youth needs to apart of gurdwara committe's now some of these old dudes are crazy. The fact that we are STILL saying this, decades after the idea was first put out says a lot about the crusty conservative and unresponsive nature of our peeps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Someone told me the person doing the sit in protest in Karamsar Illford used to be involved with Mata Sahib Kaur academy, stole money from there leading it to shut down and he goes around gurdwaras trying to run embezzling scams and forces people to take off socks in gurdwaras and scolds/tells people off for all sorts of tiny things fundamentally. And now they are disturbing Sunday programs, normal running of gurdwaras such as Anand Karajs, with disrespect for gursikh functions. They are constantly disturbing the operations every Sunday in an attempt for a hostile take over and enforcement of their own denominational maryada. I wonder why they haven't had a court order issued on them if this is the case so far banning them from the premises if this is the case? Any truth to this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sat1176 Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 I also heard the group wanted to make their own deg/parshad to that already made. I have also heard they tried to stop regular sangat going up to the main darbar because the weren't allowed to hold their santeya. In that instance police were called. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) I just heard someone reported to the proper authorities this hostile group protesting and disturbing the regular gurdwara functions have been reported as being comprised of illegal immigrants. And it does seem to be a legitimate piece of information. Edited March 16, 2014 by JatherdarSahib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 youth needs to apart of gurdwara committe's now some of these old dudes are crazy. youths are way too weak to become part of the Gurdwara committee system. Replacing shit with shit solves nothing. One of the biggest reasons for the old timers to be in control, is because they know that the youths are are not able to do anything. Being in a committee is a rollercoaster ride, with many ups and downs, which require a lot of self discipline, broad outlook, and open-mindedness. You can't blame the oldies, if the goldies aren't upto the job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premi Posted June 29, 2022 Report Share Posted June 29, 2022 On 3/11/2014 at 2:16 PM, SAadmin said: General observation from outsider... yet again more problems in gurdwaras in england usually involving youths..England seems like shit hole place to live for practicing sikh, we have no issues like that for most part in canada, every sikhs know the fine line-live and let life...it appears in england you got more self righteous cactus jacks /singhs who got chip on their shoulder crowd than live and let live crowd......!! I have hung around with many taksali in canada,, they are most chilled out people i know..compare to taksali youths in uk, who are self righteous condescending outright pricks...even akj in canada are so mellow in canada, don't even know they exist, they are peaceful and do their own thing- rehansbhai and stuff. Looks like england sikh youths regardless if its taksali, akj, nihangs having a serious problem with integration with wider egalitarian western values which is compatible over gurbani message -of freedom of speech, freedom of liberty, equal rights for humanity, so far they have segregated themselves in ghetto causing all kind of tribal issues in the community. I predict if sikhs youths in england don't pay attention, they probably end up facing bigger problems like muslim youths ghettos in france will further cause all kind of issues- rioting, fighting amongst each other, violence, fascism etc. I was just reading this post, and although my opinions on a lot of topics are usually quite useless, I thought this post was quite off the mark Even the more 'extreme' Sikhs in UK are better integrated and far less 'aghirtghan' than a certain other community. There are not many Sikh 'ghetto' here. And, I am yet to see any " all kind of issues- rioting, fighting amongst each other, violence, fascism etc." @sarabatam - was this your post ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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