Rock Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 The video is in the link http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/threads/girls-kicked-out-of-nagar-kirtan-parade-in-toronto-for-being-girls.48143/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 Feedback as member of this forum not a admin- no where to seen as offical stance of sikhawareness or anything like that: If its, its pretty sad. May be they should sort the issues out behind the scenes instead of making mockery infront of cops. Also this seems like minor flexiblity it should have been allowed but no ultra right wing patriarchist nut jobs have to ruin it for everyone and get the knickers in twist over five harmless female doing panj pyares (symbolic gesture) holding flags seva. Like seriously? Are they that insecure? Take your rigid pendu stuff some where else....!!. Dont even try hiding behind some maryada stance, some aspects of maryada is subject to circumstances / exceptions. If sikh cannot use bibek when engaging in sharia - maryada...he is same as- Hindu anna turkhu kana, dohe tu gyani sayana !! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 Can't see anything wrong with the ladies being the flag-bearers. It's not representing the 5 Pyare so there should be no problem with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 Chatanga Paaji is right. There is nothing wrong with ladies being flag bearers. Can anyone provide more details regarding this matter? What was the reason behind their decision? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasperS Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 Who organizes this Nagar Kirtan? One Rehet Maryada should not be forced upon everyone. I understand they were flag bearers anyway and so it doesnt even matter, but even if they WERE there as Panj Pyaras, Sikh Rehet Maryada does allow it, and I surmise a good deal of those present that day would be following Sikh Rehet Maryada and not The Rehet Maryada of Taksali or Nihung etc. All should be allowed to be represented if this was an event for the greater Sikh community there. If this was purely a Taksali event then ok, they can do what they want since its their event. But if this event was for the greater Sikh community then they have to be inclusive of the whole community. It seems from the video as if the idea of girls being anywhere near Guru Granth Sahib was seen in disgust. At the end of the video, they moved them somewhere way ahead, away from Guru Granth Sahib in between two trucks. The message was clear girls are not welcome. It was a disgraceful act either way. And this is the hatred we are brewing towards women. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Posted April 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 I cannot imagine how much hurt those poor bibian would have been especially on such a big occasion. Hope it does not affect their journey in spirituality. In matters of spirituality, one should be very careful in how one conducts him or herself. One bitter word can ruin someones day. But their special day was definitely ruined. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 Surprising, thought AKJ and missionaries had a strong hold in Canada who do not mind women as panj pyareh never mind flag bearers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasperS Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 Apparently not as much a stronghold as once thought. The way we are headed is back to Hindu ideology of women straight from laws of manu. I feel really upset for my daughter and what she will be facing when she is older. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 Did any organizer give a reason, as to why those sisters were not allowed? Thanks Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasperS Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 Because they were female. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 Proper pendus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 What an own goal... What's the rationale behind it? 'Keep them b1tches under control!' or something? People go on about how Sikhi gives women equality and this petty, unnecessary crap happens. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasperS Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 2 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said: What an own goal... What's the rationale behind it? 'Keep them b1tches under control!' or something? People go on about how Sikhi gives women equality and this petty, unnecessary crap happens. I think we have discovered in the last while on this forum even, that women are not treated equal in Sikhee, and most members don't think they should they be. As paapiman likes to say women are given optimum rights in Sikhee (but those optimum rights for women are always less than optimum rights for us) We first need to decide does Sikh religion in fact treat women as equals or not, before we can decide if what happens is unnecessary crap. In regards to the nagar kirtan, I think the mindset was that females can't accompany the palki sahib at all, only men can. Girls are not welcome anywhere near our Guru. They are to shut up remain in sidelines, and let males do all the leading and prominent roles. As a father of a young daughter I personally find the whole thing disgusting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 38 minutes ago, JasperS said: I think we have discovered in the last while on this forum even, that women are not treated equal in Sikhee, and most members don't think they should they be. As paapiman likes to say women are given optimum rights in Sikhee (but those optimum rights for women are always less than optimum rights for us) We first need to decide does Sikh religion in fact treat women as equals or not, before we can decide if what happens is unnecessary crap. In regards to the nagar kirtan, I think the mindset was that females can't accompany the palki sahib at all, only men can. Girls are not welcome anywhere near our Guru. They are to shut up remain in sidelines, and let males do all the leading and prominent roles. As a father of a young daughter I personally find the whole thing disgusting. On the flip side, let's not for one minute imagine all Sikh girls are angels either. You want to come to England and se what rep some ofthem have made for themselves.... So there is good and bad in both male and females. I'm just saying the above was just petty and stupid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasperS Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 56 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said: On the flip side, let's not for one minute imagine all Sikh girls are angels either. You want to come to England and se what rep some ofthem have made for themselves.... So there is good and bad in both male and females. I'm just saying the above was just petty and stupid. Where do you think I am located?? I'm in Ilford. And I could say the same there are just as many Singhs who have made bad names for themselves as well including in crime and such. But we would never think to take away rights of all Sikh males because some are just messed up would we? So why even bring up that some Sikh women are messed up? Yes kicking out the Singhnis from the nagar kirtan was petty and stupid no matter what your stance on women as panj pyareh which is entirely different topic. But the issue is unless we start treating women as absolute equals when it comes to treatment in Sikhee, then even the smallest things we might want to keep for ourselves like keeping women from seva as panj pyareh (which is not small by any definition of the word), then it just snowballs because we already see them as lesser than us in our minds. Unless we see women as our equals, then we always have a reason to impose just one more thing on them (because we feel entitled to do so), and then just one more thing and so on, and soon they are standing on a platform way below us which is against what our Gurus taught no? And then soon, the attitude becomes just as you posted above 'Keep them b1tches under control!' and we have decisions being made like this where girls are kicked out of a nagar kirtan simply for being girls. The entire attitude has to change. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaikaara Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Hitting women is what a Kuri maar act...in the presence of Guru Granth sahib they created this scene ..is this what they call dharam ? this is very much hurting 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Quote But the issue is unless we start treating women as absolute equals when it comes to treatment in Sikhee, then even the smallest things we might want to keep for ourselves like keeping women from seva as panj pyareh (which is not small by any definition of the word), then it just snowballs because we already see them as lesser than us in our minds. I think the attitude and behaviour we are talking about is one that stems from certain pendu-centric members of the community, who (unfortunately) dominate a lot of positions of power (i.e. Gurdwara committee type chachay). I don't think the vast majority of rank and file apnay would have any issue with what those girls were trying to do. It's stupid to exclude them from harmless things like this (even more so given the mouthy, constantly contesting attitude of many apneean). I hope people in Canada hook up the babay that made this decision and give them 'what for'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chimtta Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 You certainly took your time to comment on chacheys. Not all chacheys are penddus, they might clink-clank like chamcheys or karchees or patilleys but never do they clink or clank like chappals! Mind you, when they argue, bad mouth each other or demonstrate their skills at martial arts with their khurrpaans inside the gurdvarreys in the presence of Guru ji, they certainly make loud, shrill and ear-splitting noises and the police has to be informed. I like your comments best. Keep it up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Melu Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 2 hours ago, Guest Chimtta said: You certainly took your time to comment on chacheys. Not all chacheys are penddus, they might clink-clank like chamcheys or karchees or patilleys but never do they clink or clank like chappals! Mind you, when they argue, bad mouth each other or demonstrate their skills at martial arts with their khurrpaans inside the gurdvarreys in the presence of Guru ji, they certainly make loud, shrill and ear-splitting noises and the police has to be informed. I like your comments best. Keep it up. Well said Chimtta JI. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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