Bhai Ajit singh GMGG slough

[Mbad]

Vaheguru ji does anyone have information about what Bhai Ajit and GMGG promote at Slough Gurdwara as there seems to be a disconnect with what people who go there regularly say and what people who have stopped going say. It was strange also that Bhai Anantvir and Bhai SewaSingh Tarmala son did not go there either when they were both in Slough.

I don’t  want my 21 yo son falling for a cult as he is very impressionable.

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ke fateh

[Sat1176]

It's a very good Gurdwara to attend if you want to learn about simran and bhagti. Very few places like it in the UK where sangat actively come together to learn about bhagti and be inspired to jap the gurmantar.  My biggest growth happened when I attended regularly. Divans generally consist of gurbani shabads sung in dharna style kirtan so sangat get to participate with loads of swas giras simran in between at various levels of intensity. Great emphasis is placed on learning about taking the mind of tre-gun maya (tamo gun, rajo gun, sato gun thoughts) with aid of swas-giras simran. Your taught how your to look at everyone as the roop of Waheguru and to rise above the prejudices of caste and creed. Great emphasis is placed on the inward journey and to reach the avasta of anhad bani which is not even discussed/mentioned in general Sikh circles.

When Bhai Sewa Singh Tharmala passed away I think all the main original students of his broke away and have started to teach independently under their own respective banners. The core teachings generally remain the same but they don't place much emphasis on going to Moga to devote 4 years to the path. Although I find at GMGG there is very little taught beyond progressing above swas-giras simran. If it is then it is very lightly brushed over and not gone into too much detail. I suspect that is probably taught to those who are dedicated and able to commit to a serious amount of bhagti staying on site for months. That is why after attending sangat there for many years I slowly started drifting and wanted to learn more deeper stuff. In the earlier years when they used to be based in Swindon, divans used to be 3 hours long. Since they moved to Slough Bhai Sahib generally only does 1.5-2 hours if your lucky. He has given first hour to his son to teach in English. I miss those Swindon days and it never really felt the same once they moved to the more larger site. Yes some of the old sangat seem to have disappeared so there are probably some internal issues going on, but I just attended divans and left. Some have gone off under the guidance of Bhai Dharamjit Singh of Gurmat meditation and not sure where the others have gone. There is now a lot of international sangat from Canada attending at the 4 day simran camps.

Students of Bhai Dalbir Singh Tharmala have started their own programmes across various gurdwaras around the UK under the banner of PMKC UK. Bhai Ajit Singh stopped using that name once he broke away from the main Moga hub.

From an outsider looking in I will say it's sad to see that all Bhai Sewa Singh's student's now teachers themselves don't come together given the opportunity even though some still appear to be friends. Especially since they teach everyone to rise above the vices of the mind, but they still got their own personal issues going on between themselves behind scenes. 

As for Bhai Anantvir Singh he is a professional kirtania. He did attend a 4 day simran abhiyas camp few years ago where he also did kirtan in the evenings. Anantvir definately walked away with a greater appreciation of naam simran and even his kirtan changed to encompass simran even more. You will also hear Anantvir say during his kirtan focus on the sound of your own voice and not mine during simran. He picked this all up in just 4 days. GMGG do not call or let other kirtanias or katha vachaks occupy the stage at their gurdwara beyond members of the sangat singing shabads. They want to sangat to focus on the core teachings of gurbani and simran abhiyaas and their own personal development. Historical saakhis and other stuff is given less importance on stage.

Still don't let that discourage you and I would still recommend the place to anyone. If one is thirsty to progress on the spiritual path then I don't know of a better place in the UK for Sikhs.

[dalsingh101]

On 7/23/2023 at 10:33 AM, Mbad said:

I don’t  want my 21 yo son falling for a cult as he is very impressionable.

On a wider perspective I think people need to work on making their kids a bit more savvy and streetwise (in their thinking, not dress or language). This gullible streak a lot of apnay and apneean have causes havoc.

[PCSJZ]

Pretty much as Sat veer has covered. Only thing I would add is that the more in depth stuff is still taught but is more geared towards the bhagti students that are putting in some serious hours. If the deeper stages were taught and spoke about in sangat, it would probably go over most peoples heads as they are not far enough on their spiritual journey. There are bhagti rooms away from the main darbar where some are getting in 120+ hours per week of bhagti and there Bhai saab will teach the more in depth stages.

I will also say not to focus too much on who is going and who is not and why some started and have now stopped. Many start and then fall away or maybe they find another avenue that suits them better. This is a personal journey and I find its better to just focus on yourself. Best way is to go and see what it’s like, you may enjoy it or you may feel its not for you and someone else does a better job of explaining.

Good luck.

[GurjantGnostic]

16 minutes ago, PCSJZ said:

Pretty much as Sat veer has covered. Only thing I would add is that the more in depth stuff is still taught but is more geared towards the bhagti students that are putting in some serious hours. If the deeper stages were taught and spoke about in sangat, it would probably go over most peoples heads as they are not far enough on their spiritual journey. There are bhagti rooms away from the main darbar where some are getting in 120+ hours per week of bhagti and there Bhai saab will teach the more in depth stages.

I will also say not to focus too much on who is going and who is not and why some started and have now stopped. Many start and then fall away or maybe they find another avenue that suits them better. This is a personal journey and I find its better to just focus on yourself. Best way is to go and see what it’s like, you may enjoy it or you may feel its not for you and someone else does a better job of explaining.

Good luck.

That's four hours of sleep and nothing else 7 days a week. Wow. 

*With an hour Ishnaan twice a day anyway. 

[Sat1176]

3 hours ago, PCSJZ said:

Pretty much as Sat veer has covered. Only thing I would add is that the more in depth stuff is still taught but is more geared towards the bhagti students that are putting in some serious hours. If the deeper stages were taught and spoke about in sangat, it would probably go over most peoples heads as they are not far enough on their spiritual journey. There are bhagti rooms away from the main darbar where some are getting in 120+ hours per week of bhagti and there Bhai saab will teach the more in depth stages.

I will also say not to focus too much on who is going and who is not and why some started and have now stopped. Many start and then fall away or maybe they find another avenue that suits them better. This is a personal journey and I find its better to just focus on yourself. Best way is to go and see what it’s like, you may enjoy it or you may feel its not for you and someone else does a better job of explaining.

Good luck.

Nice to know that some worthy students do get the more advanced teachings. 

[Sajjan_Thug]

On 7/24/2023 at 2:55 AM, Sat1176 said:

In the earlier years when they used to be based in Swindon, divans used to be 3 hours long. Since they moved to Slough Bhai Sahib generally only does 1.5-2 hours if your lucky. He has given first hour to his son to teach in English

Waheguru Ji

By chance are you still recording these divans?  Where can we here them?

[PCSJZ]

6 hours ago, Sajjan_Thug said:

Waheguru Ji

By chance are you still recording these divans?  Where can we here them?

There are some older divans on Youtube but mostly from Slough. I dont think there are any from Swindon, a few also from Southall and Birmingham.

its usually the new years diwans which are uploaded to Youtube. I think its mostly because bhai saab encourages people to come into sangat and listen as the full benefit is there. 

[Sat1176]

On 7/25/2023 at 1:05 PM, Sajjan_Thug said:

Waheguru Ji

By chance are you still recording these divans?  Where can we here them?

Funny you mention recordings as they are forbidden at this gurdwara. Anyone caught recording will have their phone/recording device confiscated and told to delete the recordings. I remember when I first started attending I was blown away by all material and gyan. It was so much so that you couldn't even remember it all or you wanted to hear it again when you got home to absorb what you had been taught. So I went and got a professional recording device. At that time I never knew recordings where prohibited. The first week I recorded a divan, the second week someone must have noticed and told a sevadar. The sevadar came and snatched it off me right in the middle of a divan. I got blasted at by Ajit Singh right there from the stage. The sign said turn off your mobile phones, not that recordings weren't not allowed so I was left feeling quite upset. Anyway after the divan I asked the sevadar if I could have my device back. They made me delete everything and told me never to record again. I agreed and respected their wishes. However I was dumbfounded as to the reason because when were recordings ever forbidden in a gurdwara of kirtan and katha? If bhai sahib was teaching how to meet god as per teachings of gurbani why was it such a big secret and recordings forbidden? My intension was not to use his words to defame him or otherwise. At the time various videos of Bhai Seva Singh were coming out that were causing a stir. As I attended more I noticed during simran ladies especially would get quite biraagi or scream. Maybe recordings were forbidden because they didn't want to those aspects getting out. It definately startled newcomers until you became used to it. Anyway I once asked a sevadar why recordings were forbidden and the response I got back was that Bhai Ajit Singh gave his word to Bhai Sewa Singh that he would never make himself famous. If you look at the old photos / videos you will always see Ajit Singh standing on Sewa Singh's right. Must have been a lot of  love and respect between them. 

Therefore there is very limited media available from Ajit Singh in the public domain. It is a sign of utmost humility. 

Once I recall Bhai Ajit Singh saying to the sangat that he asked Bhai Sewa Singh ji what title were they after they had completed their own personal journey under Sewa Singh's guidance? At the time Sant title was being used a lot. We're they Sants, Sadhus, Bhagat or even Brahmgyani. 

Bhai Sewa Singh said they were Gurmukh according to gurbani and to think of themselves as Koi. 

Koi arn mellavey mera pretam pyaraa. 

These Gurmukhs come show the way to meet god as per gurbani and leave no trace behind of themselves. It's the teaching and name of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that should always remain and not that of an individual. 

If this is truly why there are very few recordings available then you got to respect him because he has kept his word to his teacher even though other students of Bhai Sewa Singh do not do the same. 

One could also argue that we are now in a digital age and one should be able to tune in no matter which country or time zone you live in. Also if the teaching is 100% as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji why hide it and restrict it to only those who attend the gurdwara. Isn't it time to truly promote naam simran as per gurbani. Yes and no, if you start promoting before you have made it yourself then your wasting your own precious time because you first need to worry about yourself before you can truly help others. Make it to Waheguru first then worry about promoting the teachings. 

Anyway Bhai Ajit Singh was my first teacher and I have immense respect for him. If it wasn't for him I don't I would have walked on the path of naam simran. Even though I have now spoken to quite a few Gurmukhs from Bhai Sewa Singh tree Ajit Singh was my first and holds a special place in my heart. It was their sangat lead me to walk on this path of naam simran and his lessons will remain with me for as long as I live.

Blessed are those minds who have sangat of these gurmukhs. If your searching and longing to meet Waheguru they will try and show you the way. Rest is down to how much personal effort you put in and how much bhagti you can do to clean this mind. 

Dhan are the sangat who can step away for their lives and devote months to do bhagti at this gurdwara as PCSJZ stated.

[GurjantGnostic]

14 hours ago, Sat1176 said:

Funny you mention recordings as they are forbidden at this gurdwara. Anyone caught recording will have their phone/recording device confiscated and told to delete the recordings. I remember when I first started attending I was blown away by all material and gyan. It was so much so that you couldn't even remember it all or you wanted to hear it again when you got home to absorb what you had been taught. So I went and got a professional recording device. At that time I never knew recordings where prohibited. The first week I recorded a divan, the second week someone must have noticed and told a sevadar. The sevadar came and snatched it off me right in the middle of a divan. I got blasted at by Ajit Singh right there from the stage. The sign said turn off your mobile phones, not that recordings weren't not allowed so I was left feeling quite upset. Anyway after the divan I asked the sevadar if I could have my device back. They made me delete everything and told me never to record again. I agreed and respected their wishes. However I was dumbfounded as to the reason because when were recordings ever forbidden in a gurdwara of kirtan and katha? If bhai sahib was teaching how to meet god as per teachings of gurbani why was it such a big secret and recordings forbidden? My intension was not to use his words to defame him or otherwise. At the time various videos of Bhai Seva Singh were coming out that were causing a stir. As I attended more I noticed during simran ladies especially would get quite biraagi or scream. Maybe recordings were forbidden because they didn't want to those aspects getting out. It definately startled newcomers until you became used to it. Anyway I once asked a sevadar why recordings were forbidden and the response I got back was that Bhai Ajit Singh gave his word to Bhai Sewa Singh that he would never make himself famous. If you look at the old photos / videos you will always see Ajit Singh standing on Sewa Singh's right. Must have been a lot of  love and respect between them. 

Therefore there is very limited media available from Ajit Singh in the public domain. It is a sign of utmost humility. 

Once I recall Bhai Ajit Singh saying to the sangat that he asked Bhai Sewa Singh ji what title were they after they had completed their own personal journey under Sewa Singh's guidance? At the time Sant title was being used a lot. We're they Sants, Sadhus, Bhagat or even Brahmgyani. 

Bhai Sewa Singh said they were Gurmukh according to gurbani and to think of themselves as Koi. 

Koi arn mellavey mera pretam pyaraa. 

These Gurmukhs come show the way to meet god as per gurbani and leave no trace behind of themselves. It's the teaching and name of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that should always remain and not that of an individual. 

If this is truly why there are very few recordings available then you got to respect him because he has kept his word to his teacher even though other students of Bhai Sewa Singh do not do the same. 

One could also argue that we are now in a digital age and one should be able to tune in no matter which country or time zone you live in. Also if the teaching is 100% as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji why hide it and restrict it to only those who attend the gurdwara. Isn't it time to truly promote naam simran as per gurbani. Yes and no, if you start promoting before you have made it yourself then your wasting your own precious time because you first need to worry about yourself before you can truly help others. Make it to Waheguru first then worry about promoting the teachings. 

Anyway Bhai Ajit Singh was my first teacher and I have immense respect for him. If it wasn't for him I don't I would have walked on the path of naam simran. Even though I have now spoken to quite a few Gurmukhs from Bhai Sewa Singh tree Ajit Singh was my first and holds a special place in my heart. It was their sangat lead me to walk on this path of naam simran and his lessons will remain with me for as long as I live.

Blessed are those minds who have sangat of these gurmukhs. If your searching and longing to meet Waheguru they will try and show you the way. Rest is down to how much personal effort you put in and how much bhagti you can do to clean this mind. 

Dhan are the sangat who can step away for their lives and devote months to do bhagti at this gurdwara as PCSJZ stated.

Being Sikhs..ish..it bothers me less ..this Gurudwara def has cult red flags though. 

 

[PCSJZ]

I think a cult would be where the leader discourages you from leaving that place and going to another. Bhai saab defo does not do that, infact he has always said dont actively encourage people to leave sangat wherever they are currently and come to GMGG. Because if they dont like it, they will have broken away from their original sangat and also Slough. Once broken off completely it is always harder to start again. Wherever you are just make sure you learn, apply and do the practical
 

 

[Sat1176]

1 hour ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Being Sikhs..ish..it bothers me less ..this Gurudwara def has cult red flags though. 

 

What red flags do you see? 

[GurjantGnostic]

1 hour ago, Sat1176 said:

What red flags do you see? 

At work, the Bhagti program seems excessive, the leadership seems a bit emotional and inconsistent, theres existing rumors, and the fear of recording...

Remember there is a difference between damaging and non damaging cults. 

Run them and Sikhi through this guide yourself. You'll find we are benevolent and only share some overlap in my opinion. 

But you can see that because we have some overlap if you change what we're supposed to be about at all we can and do sometimes fall on the other side in small pockets. 

https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/

 

[PCSJZ]

5 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

At work, the Bhagti program seems excessive, the leadership seems a bit emotional and inconsistent, theres existing rumors, and the fear of recording...

Remember there is a difference between damaging and non damaging cults. 

Run them and Sikhi through this guide yourself. You'll find we are benevolent and only share some overlap in my opinion. 

But you can see that because we have some overlap if you change what we're supposed to be about at all we can and do sometimes fall on the other side in small pockets. 

https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/

 

Bhagti proramme- originally started over 3 years ago. Started at 6 hours per day and now at 120+. So it was a gradual increase. Btw this was for people who wanted to donit, no one was forced.

leadership - bhai saab has been consisten with everything from Swindon days going back 24 years. Maybe I have not fully understood your point though so apologies in advance.

Existing rumours - agree there are plenty but not everyone thought Guru Nanak Dev ji or Guru Gobind Singh ji were satguru, yet they are. My point is someone will always speak negatively. Many of the ones that do are either ones that have never been or ex sangat that may have gone for the wrong reasons. I know some personally.

Recordings - bhai saab has explained with gurbani quotes the punishment that awaits those who talk in sangat. Recording is the same. We wouldnt record a judge in court, why do we need to record in a gurdwara? Surely the aim is to pay full attention to the teachings. Also many record and then use that to preach outside to others. This without them having done the practical. Real life examples have been shared by sangat. The result is leading people incorrectly as you dont have the full knowledge yourself

[Sat1176]

59 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

At work, the Bhagti program seems excessive, the leadership seems a bit emotional and inconsistent, theres existing rumors, and the fear of recording...

Remember there is a difference between damaging and non damaging cults. 

Run them and Sikhi through this guide yourself. You'll find we are benevolent and only share some overlap in my opinion. 

But you can see that because we have some overlap if you change what we're supposed to be about at all we can and do sometimes fall on the other side in small pockets. 

https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/

 

Have you ever been or you just basing this on what you have heard? For anyone reading go with a open mind if you want to learn and progress on the bhagti marg of simran abhiyas. 

You don't get all the usual chitter chatter you experience with regular gurdwaras. Nore will you get the sangat that just go for Langar. It's a place where people go to try and learn to walk on the path. Yes it's strict and anyone causing a disturbance when sangat are trying to concentrate and meditate will be warned. Personally I think that is a good thing. After attending here and going to a regular  gurdwaras you really notice the difference about how disrespectful general sangat are in guru ji's darbar and how little knowledge is shared about improving oneself and walking on the the path. 

[GurjantGnostic]

3 hours ago, Sat1176 said:

Have you ever been or you just basing this on what you have heard? For anyone reading go with a open mind if you want to learn and progress on the bhagti marg of simran abhiyas. 

You don't get all the usual chitter chatter you experience with regular gurdwaras. Nore will you get the sangat that just go for Langar. It's a place where people go to try and learn to walk on the path. Yes it's strict and anyone causing a disturbance when sangat are trying to concentrate and meditate will be warned. Personally I think that is a good thing. After attending here and going to a regular  gurdwaras you really notice the difference about how disrespectful general sangat are in guru ji's darbar and how little knowledge is shared about improving oneself and walking on the the path. 

No just based on this thread. That's how red flags work. You could have some and be fine...if they all add up a certain way and too many then you know you have a problem. 

[Kaur10]

I am attending GMG GURUDWARA SAHIB regularly.  It is very much the same as what I dreamed of or what a true gurudwara should be like.  It is like 'Bhagti da Ghar'.

Mostly what I have experienced or noticed is good like simple food, simple clothes, a great focus on NAAM SIMRAN, helpful towards each other, no gossip while doing sewa in langar hall, no politics noticed and their main focus is to provide the best experience of naam abhiyaas and Gursikhi teachings to the sangat.  Sangat is doing sewa from the heart not just a formality and the same is applicable to sewadaars doing naam abhiyaas and other sewas. 

The overall experience is very good, I was praying for this dream gurudwara for many months where I could find sachi saadh-sangat and now my search is over. 

[GurjantGnostic]

15 hours ago, PCSJZ said:

Bhagti proramme- originally started over 3 years ago. Started at 6 hours per day and now at 120+. So it was a gradual increase. Btw this was for people who wanted to donit, no one was forced.

leadership - bhai saab has been consisten with everything from Swindon days going back 24 years. Maybe I have not fully understood your point though so apologies in advance.

Existing rumours - agree there are plenty but not everyone thought Guru Nanak Dev ji or Guru Gobind Singh ji were satguru, yet they are. My point is someone will always speak negatively. Many of the ones that do are either ones that have never been or ex sangat that may have gone for the wrong reasons. I know some personally.

Recordings - bhai saab has explained with gurbani quotes the punishment that awaits those who talk in sangat. Recording is the same. We wouldnt record a judge in court, why do we need to record in a gurdwara? Surely the aim is to pay full attention to the teachings. Also many record and then use that to preach outside to others. This without them having done the practical. Real life examples have been shared by sangat. The result is leading people incorrectly as you dont have the full knowledge yourself

Scientologist consent to their regimine too. 

By consistent I mean losing your shit publically over a non posted policy. 

The rumors are the direct experience of forum members 

The recording part is total bs bro. And culty. 

[GurjantGnostic]

And this Bhagti program doesn't seem to match the definition of actual Bhagti. It seems culty. 

The Bhagats did Bhagti at work. 

 

[GurjantGnostic]

21 hours ago, PCSJZ said:

I think a cult would be where the leader discourages you from leaving that place and going to another. Bhai saab defo does not do that, infact he has always said dont actively encourage people to leave sangat wherever they are currently and come to GMGG. Because if they dont like it, they will have broken away from their original sangat and also Slough. Once broken off completely it is always harder to start again. Wherever you are just make sure you learn, apply and do the practical
 

 

Everyone has dif ideas of what exactly a cult is. And it turns out to be just about everyone to some degree. But to what degree and what effect?

I maintain that cults form any time an ego gains too much prominence or the doctrine is off. A cult of personality or ideology. 

When assessing how many behaviors are present more specifically the BITE model is the gold standard. 

Then we have a million other vague contextual definitions of what cults are. 

But if you know your history these cult movements have emerged, and re-emerged, continually and are tied to the subjegation and power struggles of Dharam V aDharam. 

[GurjantGnostic]

And we are far from immune...still the best though, but we aren't comparing to Manmukhs but Gurmukhs. 

[Sat1176]

 

[Saroop]

Bhagti at gmgg slough is to cut off and learn to apply to one’s life but it’s a choice to stay there and do it, otherwise lessons are given to those who do work have families etc. My friends father attends the Bhagti and he was quite open with what goes on there which is all Sikhi and Panthic.