Pheena Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 There are a few points to be understood. One: Jesus can be born only out of a virgin woman. But remember virginity has nothing to do with celibacy--not, at least for me. Virginity is something immensely different. Don't reduce it to sex. Sex can be virgin, and celibacy may not be virgin. Things are very complicated. If a man is celibate and thinks constantly of sex, he is not virgin. On the other hand, if a man makes love to a woman or the woman makes love to a man, and there is no thought of sex--no sexuality in the head, no cerebral sex--it is virgin. Virgin means pure. Virgin mean uncontaminated. Virgin mean spontaneous. Virgin means simple, innocent. Now sex is not the problem. Sexuality is the problem. There are people who are continuously thinking of sex. And the more you try to enforce some celibacy on yourself--you become a nun or a monk--the more you think of sex. Infact, then you don't think of about anything else, you only think of sex because that is the starved part. It takes revenge, it becomes very aggressive. It comes again and again, bubbles up, surfaces in the head. And you go on doing prayer to keep it repressed, and you go on doing this and that--a thousand and one things. But whenever there is rest, it is there. You go to sleep and it is there. It becomes your dream, it becomes your fantasy. If you repress it too much, then it starts coming in different symbols. They may not be sexual on the surface but deep down they are sexual. Sexuality means that sex has entered into the head, but why has sex entered into the head in the first place? It enters into the head if you repress it. Anything repressed enters into the head. Try for three days: go on a fast, and food will enter in to the head. For seven days don't take a bath...I am not talking about hippies. If you are a hippy, then this won't do. For seven days don't take a bath, and that will enter in your head: For three four days don't sleep, and that will enter in your head. And then you will be continuously thinking of sleep, sleep will be continuously coming and you will be yawning. Whatsoever is starved enters into the head. And when something enters into the head your whole being becomes polluted with it. By 'virginity', I mean that Mary must have been in a very non-sexual state. She must have been a very innocent woman. She must not have been thinking about sex; she must have made love, but that love was innocent. There was no idea in it: mind was not interfering. It was completely uncontaminated by the mind, uninterfered with by the mind. That's what we in Tantra say real love is. Ordinarily what do you do? You see a woman; a beautiful woman and you start fantasizing. 'A beautiful woman...how to take her to bed?' Now you start planning. Now there is great turmoil and calculation inside--how to introduce yourself to her, and how to 'make it'. On the surface you don't show that. Inside that continues--calculation, thinking, planning, designing. And when you talk to her you don't show any indication that you are sexually interested in her, because she may feel offended. Things may go wrong from the very beginning. You talk about other things--poetry, literature--and you are not concerned with poetry and literature at all. You are concerned somehow with how to jump into the bed. You are planning inside. But on the surface you are showing interest in art, in music, you are praising the music that is on. But deep down, you are waiting for something else. This is non-virginity. You meet a woman, you don't think about sex at all. Only pathological people think about sex, healthy people don't think about sex. There is no need. You enjoy the beauty of the woman-her face, her eyes, her proportion--you are simply thrilled by her being. There is no idea to do anything to her, there is no idea to exploit, and there is no idea to possess. You are immensely interested, but very innocently. There is no planning in your mind, there is no future, and then it is virgin relationship. One-day love can happen. One day listening to music, dancing together, love can possess you both: you can make love to each together. But even while making love, there is no idea--there is no mind in it. It is innocent of mind, and then it is a virgin relationship. If you ask me, then this is what I mean by 'virgin'. Jesus cannot be born in the way Christians say--that is absurd, stupid. But why do they say that he was born out of a virgin mother? They are too obsessed with sex, and to them it seems degrading that Jesus should come out of sex, out of an ordinary love relationship. That looks very very disturbing to them. Their God, their Master, their saviour... and coming through the ordinary passage of sex? No, that is not possible. If Jesus can come through sex, then how will they condemn sex? Then how will they tell their nuns and their monks 'Don't ever go into sex. It is ugly, it is the greatest sin there is!'? If Jesus himself enters into the world through natural love, it will be difficult to condemn. Then a nun can say 'Who knows, maybe Jesus wants to come through me?' Or a monk can say 'Who knows? Joseph never knew. Who knows maybe Jesus wants to come through me?' If Jesus can come through love, then love is enhanced, enthroned. Then love becomes a great value. If Jesus comes through love, then love will have a splendor to it, and that is difficult for the pathological people. They condemn sex, because through condemning sex they can hold people, they can make them feel guilty, and they become slaves and serfs. Make them feel guilty and they are always crawling. Make them feel guilty and you can exploit them. Make them feel guilty and they will come crawling to the churches and to the mosques and to the temples, and they will never be rebellious. They will be so afraid--they are sinners, they have to be saved. Create the idea in them that they are sinners, then certainly they will start searching and seeking how to be saved. And then you can trap them into the church 'This is the only way to be saved--Only those who go through Jesus will be saved' you can say to them. The more they are trembling, the more they are afraid, they closer death is coming, the more they will start coming into the church, and the more they will believe in any nonsense that you say. This has been used by the priest and the politicians to exploit people, to repress people, to oppress people, to dominate people. They cannot say that Jesus comes through ordinary love; they want to make it special. And this tendency exists in all religions. Somehow they want to make their Master special. Jains say that Mahavir's perspiration does not smell-in fact, he does not perspire. He does not defecate--he's not an ordinary human being. Defecation, urinating are very ordinary things--Mahavir does not do that. Now that seems to be the longest case in history of constipation: forty-two years. I have heard about the record: the record is 112 days. The greatest record known to medical science is one hundred twelve days. One man kept that long but Mahavir? Forty-two years. Now you cannot compete with Mahavir. now this is absurd, this is foolish. But that’s how things go. Every Religion tries to make something special of the Master, and the Masters are the most ordinary people, because they are non-egos. They are very simple people. But the disciple’s ego is in trouble, the disciple’s ego wants to find something which is special--so special that nobody can claim it. Christians have found it through this idea of virginity. They say that Jesus was born out of the Virgin Mary through the Holy Ghost. But why can't the Holy Ghost come in the usual way through Joseph--as he always comes? Why did he get lost? Why did he go astray? Christians are obsessed. This is a very ill state of affairs. To me, Virginity means innocence. And naturally, Jesus can only come out of innocence. Such a flower can only bloom in innocence. Mary must have been a virgin--virgin in my sense. She must have been pure love. She must have been as innocent as the animals. She must have been a perfect animal--that is the meaning--'like a cow'. Look into the eyes of a cow. Those eyes must have been the eyes of Mary. Jesus can only come through such simplicity , such innocence. ________________________________________ These is a cut from Osho's book. 'I say Unto You' its no avalabe on the net, i'll most some more stuff later, my hands are tired from typing all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 i was watching a documentary called "the real jesus christ" a while ago, and it discussed the differing views from mainstream christianity started by paul, and the church of jeruselam started by jesus's brother jesus's brother always believed that jesus was a god orientated man and preached love towards god and other humans, he didnt believe he was the "son of god" nor was he born through any miraculous "virgin birth" but paul who felt he needed to elevate jesus onto a higher pedestal by removing sin from jesus birth by havin this whole "virgin birth" story, and calling jesus the son of god due to paul being a roman, through invasions his story was preached more widely then jesus's brother, so the xtianity we witness today is from the eyes of paul dunno how much of it is true, but it seems pretty viable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted March 12, 2004 Report Share Posted March 12, 2004 thanks for that, it was nice to read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CK Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 According to the Bible, Jesus didn't have a brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guv Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 i remember reading somewhere that in very rare cases two eggs fuse together & result in an embryo, but that even the very few that survived till birth usually had a very short lifespan. i can't remember where i read it, but it wasn't related to the birth of jesus... but i guess it could fit. maybe a medic/doctor on the forum might know more...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Har Naal Pyar Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh don't the muslims believe there was no Joseph and that Jesus miraculously came into Mary's womb? Could just be a miracle but if Jesus had a brother then does that make Christianity and Islam wrong IF they both say that? And if Jesus had a brother would the films not at least mentiom him? Aint a doc but I have also heard that Guv. Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheena Posted February 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 how can 2 eggs fusing together create a body with the absence of a sperm? If i am reading it right then a sperm is not necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guv Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 yes that's right... & technically it could be feasible as eggs & sperm contain half of the dna required, so two eggs would contain a full strand of dna. but... having thought about it, if it did happen the child would be female because the egg provides the y chromosome & the sperm either x or y. yy being female ifrc. but i don't think the child would necessarily be an exact clone of the mother because the genes present in each egg are randomly selected. at least that's what i remember from gcse biology years ago! need a biologist to confirm... but i think that rules out the possibility of the two eggs fusing theory for jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Virgin could even mean another word for Khalsa i.e. Pure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 very interesting point to be noted by RupZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guv Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 i can just imagine the moghuls of past terrified of the oncoming advance of the 'virgin' warriors!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 i can just imagine the moghuls of past terrified of the oncoming advance of the 'virgin' warriors!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukhi Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 the egg contains the x chromosome and the sperm donates either another x or y. so if the two eggs did fuse together, the genotype would've been "xx" and the resulting child would've been female. what if Jesus was a woman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SAdmin Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Interesting link... http://meme.essortment.com/choosingthes_rwlj.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guv Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 ooops... my bad... so the eggs fusing theory could be a possible explanation for the virgin birth. i solved it! & sadmin... maybe u should keep that theory away from the punjabis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalvir Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 i remember reading somewhere that in very rare cases two eggs fuse together & result in an embryo, but that even the very few that survived till birth usually had a very short lifespan. i can't remember where i read it, but it wasn't related to the birth of jesus... but i guess it could fit. maybe a medic/doctor on the forum might know more...? i read an article about how in Japan they made 2 female chickens give birth, like there was no need to have a male gametes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guv Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 ooops... my bad... so the eggs fusing theory could be a possible explanation for the virgin birth. i solved it! ooops again! i just realised that i was right first, but i'd just got the x's & y's confused. so my above statement was incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamal_chauhan Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Listen, i think that the people's whose spirit is connected to the one itself, anything is possible for them. For example, when the muslims in the mosque turned Guru Nanak Dev Ji's feet to any of the side the Mosque moved. So this puts the eggs fusing theory out of the window and also there wasnt the technology available at that time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guv Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 So this puts the eggs fusing theory out of the window and also there wasnt the technology available at that time. i already put the egg fusing theory out of the window in the post above yours! & also, it's a naturally occuring phenomena & doesn't require any technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CK Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 "Virgin could even mean another word for Khalsa i.e. Pure?" YES. Roman Catholics believe that Mary was purified by God when she accepted the Divine Challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 ck ji, what was that divine challenge? Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Was speaking to jehovahs witness who sed God implanted the womb in Mary. In times of mahabharat the devtas impregnated women and rishis also did without touching a womens virginity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 I believe in the religion of Love, whatever direction its caravans may take, for Love is my religion and my faith - Ibn 'Arabi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 can it be clarified anywhere that khalsa does mean pure. was speaking 2 some singh scientist dude, who gave a totally different explanation of the world khalsa. Said it had suumthing 2 do with land which belonged to the government and land which government had give to generals in its army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Jesus Christ is a myth.His story is a myth.Understand that.But most important of all, understand that myth.Wake up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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