Banda Singh bahadur

[jss]

Can someone confirm what hukams Guru ji gave banda singh bahadur?

Cuz i had always thought that guru ji told him NOT to get married, but he did anyway..

some people i've spoken to say that guru ji never said anything to him about marriage...

can someone confirm and provide a reference?

thanks....

[Beast]

And is it Banda SINGH Bahadur, or just Banda Bahadur?

[Guest Sardar Moderator Singh]

This discussion has been had before on this site, however following with our 101 discussions on Sanatan Sikhi, this is perhaps another good discussion to have further to the recent presentation by Nihang Niddar Singh concerning Religious Fanatics and Sanatan Sikhs.

During this talk, the view common amongst Nihang Singhs was expressed together with some select quotes from various British Officers who met with the Sikhs of the 19th century. The general message being that Banda Singh Bahadur’s memory was not well revered amongst the Sikhs of that time (as continues to be amongst the Nihangs to this day) and the following assertions were made amongst others as to his ‘true’ character:-

-He was not Amritdhari (hence Beast’s comments above)

-He was not in charge of the Dal Khalsa Panth

-He betrayed the Guru Khalsa with his views on the use of alcohol and meat

-He fought and raided all Muslims indiscriminately and up turned graves of the dead

Presented below are some questions that arise from these assertion:-

1. Kesar Singh Chibber in his Banasivalanama has indicated that Banda Singh Bahadur did in fact Khande Bata da Amrit. This is a source far more contemporary than those used during the lecture to indicate otherwise. This account certainly does not speak ill of Banda Singh Bahadur.

2. Guru Ki Sakhia relay the account of Banda Singh Bahadur, explain this 2 meetings with Guru Sahib (at the second he was given the title Bahadur by Guru Sahib as defiance against the same title bestowed upon Aurangzeb by his father and also given Amrit). Incidentally, this is the same text used by the Nihangs when discussing the Keski and the requirement for a Blue Keski.

3. This text (Guru Ki Sakhia) further describes Baba Binod Singh coming back from Nanded with Banda Singh Bahadur. This is interesting, as the Buddha Dal claim Baba Binod Singh to be the first Jathedar of the Dal Khalsa Panth, however there is no mention of him or of Baba Kahn Singh (another historical figure from the Buddha Dal) in either Gur Bilas P10 or Sri Gur Sobha or indeed, Mehma Parkash –all of which form the collection of primary and contemporary sources in terms of Sikh history.

4. Another issue, on the topic of the Buddha Dal is that Gyani Gyan Singh (again another commonly quoted source by the Nihangs and Sanatan Sikhs) states in his Twarikh Guru Khalsa that the Buddha Dal was formed in c.1734 –how does this reconcile with the Buddha Dal being synonymous with the notion put forth by the Nihangs that they are the Guru Khalsa Dal Panth? This text also does not lend support to the concept of the Dal ever being led by a single Jathedar.

5. The account of Banda Singh Bahadur upturning a grave relates to that of Bibi Anoop Kaur, who was kidnapped by the Nawab of Malerkotla. Having done with her, she was buried there by his men. Baba Banda Singh Bahadur upturned her grave in order to give to her a proper funeral cremation as per Sikh rites and honour her shaheedi. The only negative account I have seen of Banda Singh Bahadur upturning graves is a Moghul account, which unsurprisingly displays him to a culprit.

6. The aforementioned texts relaying the account of Banda Singh Bahadur also indicate that he did in fact stop his attack at Sirhind after delivering due justice to Wazir Khan and moreover ordered the Sikhs to stop looting at this stage.

It would appear from the foregoing that there is much in the way of reconciliation between the account presented by the Nihangs and that indicated in sources available prior to the British texts and those of the illustrious Gyani Gyan Singh.

[amandeepm]

Dear SMS

Excellent posting some really good food for thought here. A forthcoming publication titled "sicques Tigers or Thieves : Eyewitness Accounts of the Sikhs 1606-1809" discusses Banda at some length, in context of some early accoutns of Sikhs by Europeans. James Browne in India Tracts 1788 is quite clear that Banda was in the Khalsa. The text notes that Banda Bahādur ‘enrolled himself in the fraternity of the Sicks’. There is little question that Banda became a Sikh of Gurū Gobind Singh. There is some contention over whether he took Khande di Pahul and became a Khālsa Sikh. Hari Ram Gupta is strongly of the opinion that Banda was not baptised into the Khālsa fraternity . Citing largely political reasons as the motivator, Gupta quotes from Rattan Singh Bhangu’s Prachin Panth Prakash and Giani Gian Singh’s Panth Parkash. Other historians have also supported this view, Kartar Singh Kalaswalia, bab Bhdur, 1924 (Gurmukhi), Karam Singh Historian in Jiwan Britant Baba Banda Bahadur, Chief Khālsa Diwan (Gurmukhi), Bhai Sohan Singh, Banda the Brave pp 27-28, Daulat Rai xx, Sir Denzil Ibbetson, A Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North-West Frontier Province, Vol 1, Lahore (1919) pg 698 and Khazan Singh, History and Philosophy of the Sikh Religion, Lahore 1914, pg 207. Gupta, further quoting Santokh Singh’s Suraj Granth states; ‘He was not in accord with the Khālsa. Without the Gurū’s approval he started his own sect. He did not take baptism of the dagger. He did not adopt the Sikh way of life. He did not eat meat and drink wine, and did not wear black clothes’. Given the obvious flaws in this quotation and the availability of no contemporaneous accounts one must look elsewhere for any evidence to the contrary. This is provided by a number of equally eminent historians, namely; Ahmed Shah Batalia, Zikre Guran wa Ibta-I-Singhan wa Mazhab-I-Eshan, Page 11), Ali-ud-Din Mufti, Ibrta Nama pp 39 and Kanihya lal, Tarikh-I-Punjab pp56, which states that ‘in spite of the fact the he belonged to a Bairagi Sect he became a disciple of Gurū Gobind Singh and, having taken pahul became a Sikh of the Gurū’. Further credible sources pointing to Banda becoming a Khālsa Sikh are provided in Banda Bahudur , Dr GS Deol, new Acedemic Publishing 1972, pp23-25.

Given the Sikh origins of the original Persian text, it is unusual in repeating a claim that in the sacking of Sirhind the Sikhs ‘they destroyed all the mosques and tombs belonging to the Mussulmans.’ There are a number of accounts that point to general atrocities committed by Banda’s troops on the Muslim community and their vassals in Sirhind. However it is worthwhile to note that the Mausoleum of Ahmad Shāh (Sheikh Ahmad Mujaddid Alif Sani) the most significant of the tombs in the entire region is still standing as it did before the battle. Sikh accounts do not make any mention of any atrocities. Sikh sources do make mention of the digging up of a grave of Bibi Anup Kaur who, at the threat of being kidnapped by Sher Mohammed Khan, had committed suicide. The Sikhs dug out her body and cremated it . Whether these attrocities were committed or not remians unclear, however the impact of the Sikhs striking the heart of Moghul Punjāb must have been quite conspicuous. The effect was so dramatic that it may have contributed to the increase in Sikh numbers amongst Hindu and Muslim Punjābis. A conteporary Persian account notes that ‘The authority of that deluded sect [of the Sikhs] extended to such an extent that many that many Hindus and Muhammadans, finding no alternative to obedience and submission adopted their faith and rituals. And their chief [banda Singh] captivated the hearts of all towards his inclinations, and, whether a Hindu or a Muhammadan whosoever came in contact with him, he [banda Singh] addressed him by the title of Singh. Accordingly Dindar Khan, a powerful ruler of the neighbourhood, was named Dindar Singh, and Mir Nasir-ud-Din, the news-writer of Sirhind, became Mir Nasir Singh. In the same way, a large number of Muhammadans abandoned Islam and followed the misguided path [of Sikhism], and took solemn oaths and firm pledges to stand by him.’

[jss]

so does anyone have the answer?????

[Niranjana]

JSS,

I have heard many variations in what Guru Sahib is said to told Banda Singh Bahadur during his Amrit Sanchar and giving him leadership over the Khalsa Army -some indicating that he was told not to marry, which I find hard to believe, but will look this up in some of the texts mentioned above by the moderator and Amandeep Singh.

From what has been made available, it does seem that the vilification of Banda Singh Bahadur down to taking his very Sikh identity away from him (re: claims he didn't take Amrit) are nothing but propaganda on part of the Nihangs in order to justify their lineage and authority via Baba Binod Singh.

This is also apparent when one looks at the rampant pseudo-shakat practices amongst the Nihangs which were all shunned by Baba Banda Singh Bahadur, why they would seek to cast him in such negative light.

Seeing the last time Banda Singh Bahadur was discussed and the length of posts flying between UK Nihangs and Bikramjit Singh on this very point, it does seem strange that on this occasion when evidence from textual and other references have been given that the UK Nihangs and Sanatan Sikhs (who should have all the more information following the recent lecture on Baba Banda Singh Bahadur by Niddar Singh) appear so shy.

[Beast]

The command of Siri Sache Sahib [banda] to the entire Khalsa (sarabat khálsá) of Jaunpur. The Guru watches over you. Repeat 'Guru Guru' [and so] redeem your birth [into the world]. You are the Khalsa of Akal Purakh. In accordance with this command don the five weapons and present yourselves before me. Observe the Rahit of the Khalsa. So not consume cannabis, tobacco, opium, poppy-head, alcohol or [any other] intoxicant, nor should you eat meat, fish, or onions. Do not steal and avoid illicit relations. We have brought in the Satiyug! Let love dwell amongst you. My command is that you maintain the Khalsa's Rahit. The Guru's will help you to do so. Dated Poh 12 of the first year.

Ganda Singh (ed.) Hukam-náme, Patiala: Punjabi University, 1967

Onions???

[Narsingha]

Onions...

Yes, many groups do not eat any root vegetables. Some groups suggest that eating root vegetables increases lust, promotes 'tamoghun' and reduces 'satoghun' and aids the breakdown of bodily harmony.

[Dalvir]

Wow, that's a lot of info. Sardar Moderator Singh Ji, and amandeepm ji Good Job

[Sikher]

Forget if he was khalsa or not are we?

Those just hide behind the 5k's and claim to be sikh when counted, but do not live the life?

maybe this is one of those questions that will never be resolved.

[Beast]

Onions...

Yes, many groups do not eat any root vegetables. Some groups suggest that eating root vegetables increases lust, promotes 'tamoghun' and reduces 'satoghun' and aids the breakdown of bodily harmony.

But why add it in a Hukamnama? As a wild guess, I'm sure many of the langars (dating back to the times of the Gurus) had food with onions in them?

[Niranjana]

The "Onions" issue is the main elements which point towards the beginning of Banda Singh Bahadur's demise of influence, as these hark back to his days as Madho Das Bairagi and indeed his diet would have been a very strict vegetarian.

This element which stands against Banda Singh Bahadur does not however offset all matters such as the "pseudo-shakat" practices mentioned above.

As per Langar in the Guru's time, one can still note that Langar prepared within Gurdwaras in India, the Dhal is made without any "turka". It is only here in the West that we have become accustomed to eating Langar with a variety of dishes lined with Turka.

[Niranjana]

Here is a Namdhari account of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur and the Bandai Khalsa’s relationship with the Tat Khalsa Nihang Singh forefathers of the present day Buddha Dal. It is interesting to note their references from the Nihang Singh Bible “Pranth Parkash” and that during the Sanatan Sikh Lecture III, the majority of sources used to vilify Banda Singh Bahadur were in fact British accounts. If this account is valid, it would appear that the relationship between the Buddha Dal and the political regime of India that is often put forth by many of its critics goes back a long way.

Taken from www.namdhari.faithweb.com

Born on Katak Sudi 13th 1727 Bikarmi in the house of a Rajput called RamDev in Rajouri(Jammu), Baba Banda's early name was given as LachmanDev.

As a young man he enjoyed hunting and learning martial arts. However, during one hunting session, he accidently killed a pregnant deer which made him give up all the worldly pleasures altogether.

Following the teachings of Sadhu JankiParshad, he became a vegetarian and changed his name to MadhoDas (Giani Gian Singhji has written his name as NarayanDas in Panth Parkash).

While pilgrimming around the country, MadhoDas/NarayanDas reached Dakkhan where he was impressed by its beautiful and serene scenery near the river Godavari. Thus he set up his camp there and continued with his Tapasya(Praying ritual) there.

It is recorded in Panth Parkash that NarayanDas was such a religious person that his ashram(residence) radiated so much peace and serenity that even the animals, such as peacocks, snakes, tigers and sheeps, all lived together in an amazingly peaceful manner:

In 1765 Bikarmi when Sri Satguru Gobind Singh Ji Blessed the land of Sri Abchal Nagar (Nander), He also Visited the ashram of MadhoDas.

Just as Satguruji were Traveling towards the direction of MadhoDas's ashram, a Sadh approached Him and requested Him to be careful of one MadhoDas Bairagi who was unfriendly to all other Sadhus and Holy-Men. Satguruji, however, Assured the Sadh that He Possessed The Mantra of Guru Nanak infront of which all other Jantra-Mantras are of no use. Guruji then Traveled on to MadhoDas's ashram.

Satguruji Sat on the very manji(bed) upon which MadhoDas used to meditate, with His Sikhs nearby. This caused much anger to MadhoDas who used all his Ridh-Sidhs(astronomical powers) against The Guru but was unsuccessful to cause any damage even when he sent 12 of his 52 Birs(magical/invisible desciples/slaves) to flip the bed upon which Sat The SatGuru!

-*Regretfully many recent writers have included fabrications such as Guruji killing all of MadhoDas's sheeps and lifestock etc., in order to make him angry. These fabrications are absolutely baseless and impossible since MadhoDas was a Vaishnav(Vegetarian) hence there was no reason for him to keep any lifestock for consumption. This is just another fabrication used by the meat-eating groups of singh sabha who try to use this as a point to suggest that consumption of meat is allowed by Sikhs' Gurus!*-

Not much later did MadhoDas finally realize Who he was dealing with and at last fell at His Divine Feet admitting himself to being His 'Banda'(Man/Servant).

-*At this point, as recorded in Johar Khalsa by Kartar Singh Klaswalia, Sri Satguru Gobind Singh Ji is said to have Given The Holy Gurmantra to MadhoDas and made him a Lion-hearted Sikh.

Other writers, such as Bhai Kahn Singh of Nabha, claim that MadhoDas was Given Amrit and his name was changed to Gurbaksh Singh.

This is, as one would discover, one of the many controversies about this great 'Bahadur' Banda*-

After Making Banda His Sikh, The Guru Who knew Banda was a man of astronomical powers, Told him all about the incidents that took place, i.e. His Sons' Martyredom, and Ordered His Banda to march towards Punjab and butcher the heartless muslim officials as a revenge for His 4 Precious Sons. Satguruji also Gave Baba Banda 5 Hukams(Orders) and 5 Singhs(Binod Singh, Kahn Singh, Baj Singh, Bijae Singh, Ram Singh) to accompany him.

With The Partap(Blessings/Support) of The True Guru, Baba Banda successfully took revenge for The Sahibzadas(Sons of The Guru), badly damaged the muslims' rule and became the very first person to have established The Sikh Raj.

However, with the coming of honor and fame, Banda was unable to follow all of The Guru's Hukams that were Given to him.

Yet, he remained a Loyal Sikh of The Guru and even changed The Khalsa's Salutation from:

To:

As a representation of his Respect towards Sachay Sahib, Sri Satguru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj.

Baba Banda had much control over Punjab and he made the Singhs responsible for running certain parts of his kingdom. Thus creating a very strong Sikh Kingdom.

With Baba Banda's Fateh(Victory), the muslim ruler, FarukhSiar, began to lose his sleep over the calamities he caused.

He at once ordered all his subjects to be present in his court and discussed a way to capture or kill Banda Bairagi.

Most of his subjects were afraid of the name Banda Bairagi and were discouraged from doing anything against him. However, a few of them also came up with a plan to 'Divide and Rule':

At this specific time when Banda had a vast following and power, The Guru's Mahal(Wife), Mata Sundriji, was somewhat unpleased with Baba Banda's assumption of control over Punjab.

The mughal ruler was therefore advised to use Mata Sundriji's hatred towards Banda in order to control Baba Banda's movements.

According to the original Panth Parkash by Rattan Singh Bhangoo, Diwan Nand Lal is said to have been sent by Mata Sundriji to Baba Banda carrying a forged hukamnama that claimed to have been signed by Satguru Gobind Singh Ji Ordering Baba Banda to stop hurting the mughals. Baba Banda, however, at once realised the hukamnama to be fabricated (This incident strongly indicates that he must have been, as it was believed by his followers and many Sikh writers, secretly in touch with Guru Gobind Singh Ji after the incident in 1708 A.D.), and thus he did not stop The Singhs from ruining the mughals' peace of mind:

With Baba Banda's response and the influence of Farukhsiar, Mataji's followers who called themselves 'Khalsa-Dal', were given an order to prepare for war against Baba Banda. They renamed themselves 'tat-khalsa' and the scheme to rid Punjab of Bandai Khalsa(Khalsa of Banda Bairagi), was chalked out.

-*At this very moment, as recorded by Gianni Gian Singhji, Diwan Nand Lal is said to have played an important role in trying to stop Mataji from fighting against The Sikhs. But Mataji were too influenced by the mughals to distinguish right from wrong:

Gianniji had infact very clearly written how the emperor influenced Mataji and wrongly accused Banda for committing various crimes which caused Mataji to become even more agitated with Banda:

*-

As the tat-khalsa was getting ready to cut its own life-support-system by attacking the Bandeis for the first time, Farukhsiar had sent Munyam Khan with a strong army to fight Baba Banda.

Munyam Khan badly lost the battle forcing the emperor to again send his 4 trusted muslim sardars(leaders) to face Banda. After a long battle, The Sikhs again defeated the muslims.

Then Rustam Khan of Lahore was sent to do it right. But again Rustam Khan could not handle Banda's army and just as his army was losing, another high ranking muslim officer, Nazim Wazir Khan of SarHind came to his rescue, but to no avail.

Wazir Khan started to read namaaz right in the battle field and Baba Banda's soldier, Nahar Singh, seized the opportunity to behead the pathan and presented it as a trophy to Baba Banda. Needless to say, the muslim army ran away after their leader was beheaded.

Farukhsiar, after losing a lot of his soldiers and trusted men, finally sent his top officials to persuade the newly formed tat-khalsa into attacking the Bandai-Khalsa.

The muslims successfully brain-washed the tat-khalsa by promising them the allowance of 10,000 Rupees per year.

During this time, Baba Banda was leading his army to attack Lahore and a great battle was taking place near Shalamar when suddenly, the muslim-influenced tat-khalsa sent 2,000 of its soldiers to help the muslims fight against Sikhs!

Kahn Singh's son, Miri Singh, led the tat-khalsa into attacking Bandai-Khalsa causing both confusion and sorrow to the Bandai Khalsa who saw their own brothers attacking them.

Forgetful of The True Rahet(Rules/Orders of Satguru) Given to him by The Guru, Banda was, at this time, powerless. He pronounced The Mantra and shot an aero, but nothing happened. Finally he and his soldiers were forced to retreat towards Gurdaspur into the fort now famously known as 'Duni-Chand Di Hawayli'(The fortress/house of Duni Chand).

Seeing what was happening infront of him, Baba Banda sent a few of his messengers to negotiate with the nihangs of tat-khalsa. But the brain-washed nihangs refused to resort to any negotiation.

The badshah(Farukhsiar) was informed of the Sikhs' division and the latest update on the Bandais' retreat. He at once ordered his subjects to be made present in his court. He put forth 'the order of capturing Banda Bairagi' but no officer of his dared to touch it. Then finally the badshah's suba of lahore, Abdul Samand Khan picked up the order and led the troops towards Gurdaspur where Banda was later surrounded even more tightly with Samund Khan's army.

At this time, some of the Sikhs were afraid that Baba Banda would use his Ridh-Sidhs and fly out of the fortress leaving them behind. So they, along with Baj Singh approached Baba Banda who assured them he'd stay with them till the end as recorded in Panth Parkash:

The muslims did not allow the Sikhs to come out of the fort in order to find food. At one point, about 400 Singhs who were sent by Baba Banda to get them food were all mercilessly martyred in a battle.

Later, when the pathan saw that The Sikhs had grown weaker and weaker from lack of nutrition, he allowed food to be supplied to The Sikhs and promised The Sikhs they could come out and retreive the food without being persecuted.

None of The Singhs accepted any food from the muslims. They all remained faithful to their leader, Baba Banda, and their Satguru - Sachay Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh. They all remained strong and meditated upon The Holy Naam and proudly stood against the muslims' temptations:

Seeing The Singh's bravery and the sufferings they were going through, Baba Banda Bahader finally ordered for the fortress's gates to be opened.

The turks(muslims) rushed in but none dared to risk his life and get near Baba Banda. Babaji therefore tied himself up and only then did the muslims muster the courage to capture and put him into an iron cage.

Babaji and The Sikhs were captured and transported to Delhi on bullock-carts. On the way, The Singh's Spirit was not at all decreased by their fate. They continued singing The Shabads throughout the entire journey.

While the bullock-carts were passing through SirHind, the muslim civillians who hated The Singhs for ruining their kingdom started to throw rocks at them. The Singhs also threw back the rocks they caught and some muslims were mortally wounded there.

Though Baba Banda was tightly chained and confined in the iron cage, the emperor Farukhsiar was still fearful of him. Upon reaching Delhi, he sent his officer to ask Baba Banda how he wanted to be martyred.

Baba Banda requested himself to be killed in the same manner the emperor wanted to be killed!

The emperor was furious and ordered for the ropes that were used to strap Baba Banda to be even more tightly tied.

At Chandni Chawk, as recorded by Gianni Gian Singh, the Singhs along with Baba Banda were set to face their Martyrdom.

In bands of 20s, The Singhs were martyred. They were all given the choice of condemning their Faith and becoming muslims by which they were promised to be freed. But none of them gave up their Faith. They were fighting one another to be the first to die and were most thankful for becoming Shaheeds on the very Blessed Land where Sri Satguru TeghBahader Sahib Ji Sacrified His Body to Save Hindustan:

After The Singhs, Baba Banda's turn finally came.

For the past 3 days his skin was torn away bit by bit with iron pinchers. However, Baba Banda did not even show any sign of pain. He sat through the entire merciless torture, smiling:

When badshah Farukhsiar became aware of this, he sent his officer to Banda and asked him the following questions:

Question 1 (in brief): "How could you remain so calm and even smile when your skin was being torn away?"

Banda's Answer (in brief): "I am related to by body just as a man is related to his house. When he leaves the house he does not feel any of its attachments physically. I am strongly bonded to Brahma(Akal Purakh/Sachay Sahib) and not my body. Thus I do not feel any pain. My only thought is of God and hence I am happy."

Question 2 (in brief): "You are such a holy man and near to Khuda(God) and yet you have killed so many muslim children and old people and destroyed many masjids(mosques). Why?"

Banda's Answer (in brief): "You people have commited a lot of crime. You have mercilessly Martyred The Sahibzadas and thus you must pay for your wrong doings. Yet it is also true that I have overdone what I was Ordered by God and thus I am now paying for it. This is Karam(Karma) and no one can change it."

Question 3 (in brief): "How did a man like you, who possess such Shakti(Astronomical Powers), succumb to our troops?"

Banda's Answer (in brief): "It is my fault that I overdid what was Given to me as Hukam from my Guru, Guru Gobind Singh. I was given 5 Orders:

1) To remain a celibate.

2) To always speak The Truth.

3) To never break up with the other Snghs.

4) To never create my own separate Panth(Sect).

5) To never be disrespectful towards The GurBani.

I have become oblivious to my Guru's Hukam and thus I am facing the consequences. Otherwise what threat could you people have ever posed to me?"

The officer went back and reported his interview with Banda to the emperor. The emperor, perhaps wanting such a great man as Baba Banda to serve him, ordered the officer to go back and tell Babaji that if he agreed to become a muslim, his freedom would be guaranteed.

Baba Banda was approached by the muslim officer in a compassionate manner asking him to embrace islam. Babaji, however, spit on the ground and asked the officer to lick it. He then said that because of the same reasons he(the muslim officer) could not lick his(Banda's) spit, he too could not resort to embracing islam!

Baba Banda was so faithful to his Satguru that he was certain his Guru's Words would never be wrong and that he was sure to meet demise from the hands of the muslims.

In the State of Mast(Ecstasy), Banda also denounced the many evils and wrong doings of the muslim rulers infront of the officer.

The officer reported the entire story to the emperor who furiously held his congregation and asked them what should be done to The Guru's Banda. His men suggested that a man such as Banda who viewed himself to be no less than God and is a big threat to the muslim rule should be strapped to an elephant's foot and die the painful death of being dragged and stepped on by the beast.

The emperor approved the merciless treatment and Baba Banda was Martyred in 1773 Bikarmi.

-*Regarding the method of execution used for Baba Banda, the british writers, who may have had the time and opportunity to watch the muslims' cruelty first hand, have written it completely different than what's written in Panth Parkash. They have written Baba Banda's son, Ajai Singh(Not recognized by older Sikh writers including Bhai Kahn Singh of Nabha.) to be killed infront of Babaji and that Babaji's arms and legs were cut off prior to being butchered mercilessly by the executioner.

This later method of execution supported by the english writers, however, is also not recognized by the Bandai Sikhs who claim that Babaji used his Yoga-related powers to remain alive even after the elephant's stampede and was litterally 'resurrected' and restored to health by a muslim faqir. The Bandai Sikhs also claim that Babaji, persuaded by the Sikhs, later got married to a woman belonging to Khatri Caste and had a son called Ranjit Singh in 1785 Bikarmi. They claim Babaji to have left his body on Jeth Sudi 14th 1789 Bikarmi. Babaji's Dera was also later constructed and his alleged son, Ranjit Singh, was the first Mahant.*-

After the removal of Banda, The Bandei Sikhs were strongly persecuted. The tat-khalsa, led by Miri Singh, was sent under the influence of muslims to kill all the Bandai Sikhs where ever they were to be found!

As recorded in Panth Parkash, The Bandai Khalsa were sorrowful to see their own brothers attack them. They collectively folded their hands and asked the tat-khalsa soldiers to re-think what they were doing and to stop butchering them for they too were Singhs. But the tat-khalsa leader, Miri Singh, rejected their request and expressed his desire to exterminate them:

Such was the influence of muslim subas who controlled the tat-khalsa via Mata Sundriji that the Bandai Sikhs were nearly put to extinction.

After the Shaheedi(Martyrdom) of Baba Banda, badshah Farukhsiar became ill and his mental capabilities were affected. His once trusted officers therefore removed him from power and made Muhammad Shah the new Badshah instead. Farukhsiar was blinded and imprisoned.

After sometime, Farukhsiar was helped by his servants to run away from prison and headed towards Ayodhya. On the way, he was caught and tortured in the very same way Baba Banda was tortured; by tearing his skin using iron pinchers.

After his sufferings, he was imprisoned as before but his servants continued to take him out riding a horse from time to time.

But one day just as he was taken to ride a horse by his servants, luck finally ran out on Farukhsiar. The horse went out of control and out of the reach of his servants. Farukhsiar was dragged and stomped by the beast until he was dead. The emperor finally got to taste his own medicine.

The tat-khalsa were given their promised 'reward' in cash everyday from the nawab(muslim governer). However, as Baba Banda was removed and the Bandais persecuted, the 'reward' became lesser and lesser and finally stopped.

When Miri Singh tried to get some cash from the suba of Lahore, the officer gave him the eye-opening reply that the tat-khalsa would be paid whenever the mughals would feel the need to use them!

The tat-khalsa itself was to blame for cutting its own legs. After rejecting to pay them, the mughals also decided to remove all the tat-khalsa officials from their positions and thus were many tat-khalsa royals left penniless and powerless. Only then did the entire panth realize what an important role Banda and the Bandai Khalsa played and how foolish they were to have butchered their own brothers who had worked so hard to establish a Sikh Raj.

-*Some writers had wrongly accused Baba Banda of proclaiming himself to being Guru and wrote that he went to Amritsar and put up his gaddi(seat/throne) there. However this is entirely untrue and Gianni Gian Singhji had also mentioned specifically regarding this issue in his Panth Parkash's foot-note section clarifying that since Baba Banda never even went to Amritsar, it was therefore impossible for him to have put up any throne or commit any of the crimes that the tat-khalsa writers had fabricated.*-

[bobbyboy]

so does anyone have the answer?????

Naranjana has provided the evidence that shows that he was a Khalsa Sikhs. All the UK Nihangs have is Nidder Singh's say so that he wasn't a Khalsa Sikh. I know who I believe.

[vijaydeep Singh]

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

In Panth Prakash of Ratan Singh Bhangu,Banda has been given grey shades good as well as Bad.

May be in Mangal Prakash by Gurbax Singh he is writtan as from Brahmin family.

Das could say that present day Tat Khalsa,who impose there views on other.They tend to do some sort of personal Worshipping to some Sants or to some founder of Jathas.

Fight for the control of Gurudwaras.And talk a lot of miracle like vision of Tenth Master etc. or food by miracle coming to jail.

Or a good lot of ritualism like no eating meat.

They are doing exactly what Banda did.Banda was not Bad but his ways were not accepted and ultimately he was eliminated and follwers overcome.

Sp our Present Day Tat Khalsa are not Bad in there intention but there ways will be the reason of there debacle.

thing here is that Gurmat tells us to even tolrate there ways till they do not come in our ways.

So Das respect the way of Banda or tat Khalsa of today but may not follow them.It is there interpetation of Gurmat.

Ap Apni Budhi Hai Jeeti

Barnat Bhin Bhin Tuhi Teeti

[doaba]

i ain't read most of what is said above. but heres my input.

his names

lachman das

madho das

gurbaksh singh

banda singh bahadur.

some nihang singhs still live from bandi khalsa from what i know up 2 2day.

stoped eating meat. didn't have pork in front of akal takhat. wore red bana. got married. sat on a gaddi(throne). the khanda(tulvar) that was given to him by Guru Gobind Singh ji was taken back by Baba Deep Singh and his bad boy crew.

[Niranjana]

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

In Panth Prakash of Ratan Singh Bhangu,Banda has been given grey shades good as well as Bad.

May be in Mangal Prakash by Gurbax Singh he is writtan as from Brahmin family.

Das could say that present day Tat Khalsa,who impose there views on other.They tend to do some sort of personal Worshipping to some Sants or to some founder of Jathas.

Fight for the control of Gurudwaras.And talk a lot of miracle like vision of Tenth Master etc. or food by miracle coming to jail.

Or a good lot of ritualism like no eating meat.

They are doing exactly what Banda did.Banda was not Bad but his ways were not accepted and ultimately he was eliminated and follwers overcome.

Sp our Present Day Tat Khalsa are not Bad in there intention but there ways will be the reason of there debacle.

thing here is that Gurmat tells us to even tolrate there ways till they do not come in our ways.

So Das respect the way of Banda or tat Khalsa of today but may not follow them.It is there interpetation of Gurmat.

Ap Apni Budhi Hai Jeeti

Barnat Bhin Bhin Tuhi Teeti

Gur Fateh!

Veer Vijaydeep Singh,

The present-day Tat Khalsa certainly aren't alone in their views and forceful fanaticism as this is also true of those who initially bore the title 'Tat Khalsa' as can be seen from their enforcing of their pro-meat ideals on others and numerous references in eye-witness accounts to them being 'fanatics'.

[Niranjana]

i ain't read most of what is said above. but heres my input.

his names

lachman das

madho das

gurbaksh singh

banda singh bahadur.

some nihang singhs still live from bandi khalsa from what i know up 2 2day.

stoped eating meat. didn't have pork in front of akal takhat. wore red bana. got married. sat on a gaddi(throne). the khanda(tulvar) that was given to him by Guru Gobind Singh ji was taken back by Baba Deep Singh and his bad boy crew.

Gur Fateh!

Without having this slip into the usual ramblings on meat etc, the main points that come up when Banda Singh Bahadur is discussed tend to be:-

Pro-Banda Camp:

-Excellent Warrior & Khalsa Singh of the Guru

-Appointed as leader of the Khalsa Army

-Upheld the much loved 'Vegetarian' ideals of many of today's Sikhs (although his ultra-Vaishnav diet often gets overlooked!)

-Did a great job in Sirhind

-Established the first major Sikh Kingdom with the striking of the coin (with the Persion Legend..."Fateh Gobind Singh Shahen Shah...)

Anti-Banda Camp:

-Was he Amritdhari or not?

-Wore the wrong colours

-Didn't eat meat or partake in alcohol

-Shouldn't have got married

-Became obsessed with power and undertook hideous crimes against Muslims, Women and Children

Points concerning his initiation into the Khalsa and vile accusation of up turning graves etc, have already been addressed above by various posters, however, let's look at some of the other points:-

1. Why should Banda Singh Bahadur not have got married? -Usually we hear of supposed Hukams from Guru Sahib in this respect, however where are there hukams? Moreover, why would such a hukam be made to Banda Singh Bahadur, given that Guru Sahib himself was married thrice?

2. What is the issue with the colour of clothing? Without dwelling into Taksal-influenced issues on Red and Green colours, clearly the issue here is that he no longer exclusively wore Blue -the colour argued to be that of the Khalsa. If indeed this is the case and that Blue that the costume of a Nihang Singh is the only true form of the Khalsa, then why would Guru Sahib remove blue clothing following the Uch da Pir episode?

3. Is it necessary to eat meat and drink alcohol to be a Khalsa Singh? (please note the question is not asking if meat/alcohol are OK, but if as the Tat Khalsa of the day enforced, is it necessary to be eating pork chops outside the Akal Thakt to prove oneself Sikh? -also, is the eating of Pork and Beef permitted for Sikhs?)

4. If the vegetarism as Banda Singh Bahadur propagated is indeed the Gurmat ideal, why do Sikhs today, including those professing extreme commitment to Bibek include onions and spices in their diet?

5. Following on from (4), why do the supporters of Banda Singh Bahadur as a key figure of Gurmat ideals not use the salutation 'Fateh Darshan' or contemplate "Guru Guru" as per his instructions?

[SAadmin]

excellent post Niranjana veer ji.

[desi baba]

aaaakaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllll

i dont care wot anyone says i think banda singh bahadur

is a KHALSA and a gangster

u may sit there at ur computers and point out mistakes and negitive things about peeps but i dont

positivity reigns supreme in the hood

i think da man was chardi kala

he may of made mistakes

but wen he got sahihddi, he showed the sikh spirit

i think my man was wicked ans a graet inspiration

i bow my head b4 those who lay there lives and everything they have down for sikhi all of those from the very start

akaaaaal

[Singh47]

I agree with Veer Desibaba Jee. I dont care what some of you say about Baba Banda Singh Bahadur Jee. He will always remain a hero of our people. His Shaheedi is an inspiration for all of humanity and not just the Sikhs.

[Niranjana]

Gur Fateh!

Baba Desi Jee and Veer Singh47, I don't think anyone is belittling the shaheedi and benevolence of Banda Singh Bahadur, however in acknowledging his heroic end and inspiring beginnings, we must not fail to ignore what happened in between -for this is usually what gets questioned by those who speak against him and conveniently ignored by those who cannot handle the realities of history and wish to view Itihaas as 'what should have been'.

[ranjha]

Hey Niranjana,

-Became obsessed with power and undertook hideous crimes against Muslims, Women and Children

sorry but can u tell me when banda did this? I never knew such a great man would do such a deed!

[Niranjana]

Gur Fateh!

Ranjhna, this is one of the assertions made by those who feel that Banda Singh Bahadur fell foul of his ego and success, some of these points were mentioned by Nihang Niddar Singh during the lectures last year.

The truth of the matter, I do not know, hence why I have sought to discuss this with the forum here, certainly Nihang Niddar Singh presented his line of thought and reasons quite clearly (which are mirrored by most Nihangs of the original 'Tat Khalsa') however there are questions that arise from this as per above.

Finally, can Veer Desi Baba, please explain what he means by Baba Banda Singh being a "Gangsta".

Thanks,

Niranjana.

[Beast]

Unfortunately I don't think DesiBaba is coming back! (he said in another thread that he only wanted to do a 100 posts and no more)