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Baba Ram Singh Jee's hukam


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"Baba Ram Singh was never reconciled to the rule of the British. His prediction about its early recession was implicitly believed by his followers, who were forbidden to join government service, to go to courts of law or learn the English language."

This is from a passage about Baba Ram SIngh Jee. the naamdharis say that they do not wear the kirpans pn thier gatras now, but in their kanga. becasue of british opression. They still follow this hukam after over 60 years of the british going. But why do they not follow Baba Ram Singh hukam on not learning english. Surely if he is the Satguru his hukam should be followed by his devoted Sikhs. If however this hukam is no longer "valid" then why is the restriction on wearing kiroan in gatra still ongoing. serious replies only.

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havan and yagya make the country prosperous and bring down the rains when needed. This is one of the hukams of Baba Ram Singh Jee. My source is naamdhari world . com

www.naamdhariworld.com doesn't come up for me... & www.namdhariworld.com just says site under construction

do u mean www.namdhari-world.com ?

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I pray that Chatanga's monitor and screen work and show him the answers because seeing how he interpreted the messages posted by the many goodsikhs under the 'marriage outside religion'... I think its best I do not waste my energy responding to him because it is certainly a gross wastage of time and energy.. peace.. I hope u have fun and feel superior by smearing and insulting other religions... oh yeah.. there r no Hindu female Saints and Global warming is a myth! :LOL:

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sorry vinegar.. but chatanga dude is beyond help.. first of all as I wrote here many times if anyone wants to KNOW.. they can go read the various Namdhari websites.. AND FOR THE RECORD HIS QUESTION IS ANSWERED VERY CLEARLY, IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, ON THE VERY SAME WEBSITE HE ALLEGES TO HAVE BEEN READING FROM (NAMDHARI-WORLD.COM)... if they still don't find an answer.. hey.. my pm is not blocked... or otherwise ask your questions in the Namdhari group on yahoo... but people like chatanga (not just him but all those who have this unconditional hate and burn at the sight of reading the word 'Namdhari') just want to 'say negative things' about Namdharis or somehow 'prove' with their mute points that 'Namdharis don't follow Hukam of Baba Ram Singh Ji'..

I will only take chatanga seriously if he can prove that he can read and comprehend by explaining what is going on on pages 354 - 359 from this link: http://www.ik13.com/Rasses/SGPS%20Raas%2010.pdf

I'm sorry but as many have been dumbfounded by his (and people like him) responses to some of the topics on this forum it is really beyond my capability to reason with such persons.

Those with reading skills beyond elementary level may kindly visit the following link should they find a genuine need to learn more about Namdharis: http://namdhari.faithweb.com/radio/links.html

Otherwise.. go ahead with the insult-fest and 'knock urself out' :)

P34C3

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I could not see any of the hukams from Baba Ram Singh Ji who i admire and great things are written about them by baba waryam singh ji of ratwara sahib. For this reasom i have cut and pasted the hukams of baba Ram Singh Ji which i found. Most of them are basic tenants that all sikhs agreee with.

These selected Hukum namas (instructions to obey) have been issued by Guru Ram Singh Ji from Rangoon and written with blessing and for the benefit of all Sangats of Bhaini and for all Namdhari Sikhs.

From Guru Ram Singh to the Khalsa of Bhaini, Wahiguru ji Ka Khalsa, Sri Wahiguru ji ki Fateh.

-> Rise during the last watch (phase) of night (early in the morning) and taking a pot of water, for cleansing, go out into the fields to relieve yourself in the natural surroundings. On your return scour the pot twice and remove the clothes you were wearing in the fields while you are out, and clean your teeth, and have a bath, and recite the prescribed Nitnem (Simran 'meditation' and portion of 'bani.').

-> If you don't know these banis by heart you should learn them, every one should do this, including women both old and young, recite complete both Japji and Jap by memory and also Shabad Hazare of two Gurus. You must also learn Rahiras and Arti Sohila by heart.

-> All should lead a life of restraint and contentment. Offer praise to the Lord, throughout the day and night. Respect the daughter or sister of another man as you would your own; respect all the ladies as their relationships with you.

-> We have been told how we should preserve and respect the rights and privileges of the others (respect the human rights), that is our moral duty: 'Violating another's rights, 0 Nanak!, should be treated with the same abhorrence as a Muslim would feel for eating pig or Hindu for killing a cow'.

-> He who has received "Bhajan" and then does not recite (meditate on it) is as per (Hukam) instructions - will have his face blackened in this world and in the next. Whosoever does not do his daily prayers and meditations he will suffer there and here.

-> Let no one speak maliciously of another and practicing forgiveness towards the others, take no heed of what another may utter about you. Even the person who puts a hand to strike against you must be forgiven as the attacker. Satguru ji is your protector. Try not to take revenge; the Guru is on your side. Always beware not to show off your own good deeds and hide your goodness from the others.

-> Daily early in the morning gather at Asa di Var and in the afternoon/evening at Divans regularly, and participate in the proceedings at congregations

-> When a Jug (HAVAN) has to be performed purify the place where it is to be held by cleaning the place. Bring earthen vessels, which have not been used before and wash your feet before entering the Jug square. Then perform the Havan or Horn. Use wood from either the palah or ber tree; do not fan the fire by blowing on it with human breath. During the course of the Havan five officials should read the following Banis from the Scriptures, Chaupai, Japji, Jap, Chandi Chariter, Akal Ustat. (Later Satguru Hari Singh Ji gave instructions (Hukam) later on Chandi di Vaar and Ugar Danti should also be read). A sixth official should mean while pour incense made of ghee with Havan Samaghari on the fire and a seventh official should periodically sprinkle a few drops of water on the fire.

-> Do not let join and admit to religious assemblies any one who commits an evil deed such an adultery or theft, if the culprit happens to be a powerful person then all should pray to the Almighty Satguru together that he will be rendered unable to enter the congregation

-> But my understanding is limited, you may yourselves know all that need to be known. Let all stand reverently with (folding hands) palms joined before Satguru Ji and pray to Him, 'Sustain our faith 0 Lord'.

-> Always wear the approved breeches (Kachh). When taking off a Kachh withdraw one leg only and put it in the leg hole of another pair before withdrawing the second leg.

-> Never conceal an evil deed committed by another person.

-> Do not sell or barter a daughter or a sister.

-> Constantly repeat the Guru's name.

-> Never eat meat or drink alcoholic liquor.

-> Continue always in the fear of the Guru.

-> Bodily pains, epilepsy, attack by the evil spirits, injuries, which men receive at the hands of others, starvation and destitution etc. will all be removed by "bhajan" of God. It has been ordered by the Guru that the name of God is the remedy for all diseases. To read "bani" and repeating the name of God is productive and rewarding.

0 Khalsa ! be firm in your morning worship of the creator, not only one but all other agonies will be removed. Be assured of this truth, for the Guru Sahib has said that ailments can be removed by the worship of the creator.

-> Naam and Bani are priceless treasures; it is not possible to estimate their value. O Khalsa ! the Guru Sahib has been graciously pleased to confer upon you this Naam and Bani, therefore, be firm in reciting the Naam and Bani day and night, whether moving or working; always strive to step forwards, never backwards.

-> 0 Khalsa ! if a relative dies, you should not mourn or grieve after him, but in keeping with your means perform, in the name of your departed relative, acts of charity, Bhog, Path, feeding and clothing of the brethren. Mourning and grieving is rebellion against God, and torturing the body without any advantage. I have also heard that a person mourned for his occasioned grief; the tears and nasal mucous of the mourners fall upon the soul of the departed, and makes him cry out "0 God, may someone else of the mourners man die, so that I may dwell in peace".

-> 0 brethren of the Khalsa ! make use of the pure food and drink. 0 brethren it is the order of the Tenth Badshah ( Guru Gobind Singh) that eating with a person whose tenet of belief is not known or who does not practice the Gur-Mantar (mystic sectarian whisper) results in estranging the affection of God.

-> Without the Gur Mantar man is like a pig, the dog, the ass, the snake; for this reason I always impress upon you to receive Gur Mantar and leam Gur Bani by heart.

-> If a person being a Sikh sells barters (infanticide) his daughter, he should be boycotted.

-> We shall not always be Surrounded by Hornets; it is only for a short while, which will soon pass away.

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Oye Rabb de vaste............. :roll: meri benti sun laoo............Chatanga, you think you have a great grasp on sikh history which happens to be incorrect most of the time............I have a question for you..........

You seem to be nit-picking a lot on Namdhari's and what not........Namdhari's live by word of gurbani, amrit vele utnaa, kesi ishnaan, naam simran, gurbani paath, kirtan etc..........

Now, my question to you is namdhari's follow the hukams of their guru, Your Guru.......(no offence to anyone but this is just to make a point), Guru Granth Sahib Ji has 1430 pages telling humans to stop bickering, quarrelling, slandering, and spend more time in kirtan, naam simran etc.............How much do you follow? Do you follow your guru's hukam because it seems like you don't and you follow the "PANTHIC POLICE"........ why?.................

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  • 4 weeks later...

ACTUALLY!! dnt we shudnt translate it into english, jus read th gurmukhi and kinda sum up whats said, btw that's satguru ji's hukam is not the translate any bani into english or foriegn language oz its not gonna b an exact translation hunna, it wasnt not to learn english...i think...although it does sound like a possible hukam coz of th hatred against british, but nowadays bare namdharis live all over th place so i guess learn th lingo has gotta b done, we arent under much oppresion these days...

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haha the exact reason the kirpan is in th kanga and not in the gatra is bcoz of not much oppression these days-we dont need it readily available in our gatra, the kirpan in this day and age (mainly in countries outside of india) is entirely ceremonial and symbolical coz we'd get done for using it-or if its over how ever many inches long, language barriers however, is a practical thang that needed overcoming

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haha the exact reason the kirpan is in th kanga and not in the gatra is bcoz of not much oppression these days-we dont need it readily available in our gatra, the kirpan in this day and age (mainly in countries outside of india) is entirely ceremonial and symbolical coz we'd get done for using it-or if its over how ever many inches long, language barriers however, is a practical thang that needed overcoming

errr NO !.

We live in vulnerable enivornment, most of gorreh's, kala's, hispanic, skin heads, red heads, blondes etc etc think we are muslims, anything could happen while walking around the block, heard soo many stories how amritdhari singh, old khalsa getting beaten by racist thugs who think we are muslims..and check this out my point is not just arm yourself with 9 inch kirpan but equally take vidya how to use kirpan first before carrying it, that applies to both extremes people who carry kirpan engraved in kanga and as well people carrying 9 inch kirpan/1foot kirpan with them. Both need to learn how to "use it" first. thats extremely important.

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so kaur let me get this right, when there was oppression by the british the kirpan was relegated to the kangha. no there is no oppression the kirpan stays on the kanga. plz explain. If Guru Gobind Singh wanted the kirpan on t he kangha he would have said it. Kirpan can never be symbolic. if they could why cant the other 4 k's be symbolic? Its there for a reason.

also has the opresion ended? look at panjab now and the violence against the weakner sections of people is still there ie aginst dalits. etc

I would never claim that there is no opression in india.

chatanga

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in britain its become symbolic, coz ull get done for using it, and no satguru gobind singh didnt want it on th kanga, hence he didnt make it like tht, but for us satguru ram singh, did want it on th kanga, and also wasnt talkin bout ther being no oppression in india, i was talkin bout namdharis outside of india BUT also, th oppression in india today will again not b tackled by the means of the sword or violence...as was seen in th dal recently, whoever has th government on their side will suceed or else ull b thrown into jail....for th meanwhile tho...in th end people will get what they deserve

and also guru gobind singh didnt intend for kuria to wear kirpan or even join th khalsa, but many have....jus to throw tht in...

also i agree with everything neo says...shastar vidiya is very important i am very for upholding traditions, but with stuff like strong police n goverment etc wars, fights etc jus get u locked up, personalli believe in this day and age u shud not lift ure kirpan or start a fight for the sake of 'religion' or anything for tht matter, unless th reason for which u r fighting is so important ure willing to go to jail for it

sorry im startin to contradict my points lol, im TRYING to make sum sort of point, soz for all th waffling too, im trying lol

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and also guru gobind singh didnt intend for kuria to wear kirpan or even join th khalsa, but many have....jus to throw tht in .... to quote kaur uk

Have you heard the sakhi of Anoop Kaur?

Bhai Ram Singh's benti cannot be held equal to the hukam of Guru Gobind Singh.

Who is Bhai Ram Singh to relegate the Kirpan to kanga?

Has the kirpan never been used in self defence since or did Bhai Ram Singh know that there was no more use for the kirpan that he relegated it to kanga?

If Bhai Ram made this decision then should we assume that Bhai Balak Singh wore a kirpan in his gatra?

chatanga

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"If the Akalis did relegate the kirpan to the kanga, at least at sum point they had the sense to reinstate it back to the original"

Are you sure catanga - those butter knifes that the SGPC and Taksal issue during their amrit sanchars? The Akalis restored simply to a 6" version which is still different to the orginal intentions and practices of the then Sikhs...nonetheless, I agree that yes they did restore the Kirpan and haven't done away with it and certainly don't criticise like many sterile groups do today.

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