CdnSikhGirl

Everywhe you look there is life...

On each and every vegetable, there is bacteria, which can be considered meat.  Insects who lay eggs... as Paapiman had called them menstrual waste of insects.  Washing won't remove all of this.  Life exists everywhere and you can not avoid it.  Eat a head of lettuce and you unknowingly ate several bugs along with it! 

Guru Nanak Dev Ji spoke of the hypocrisy of such thinking...
First Mehl:
The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.
What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?
It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.
Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.
They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.
O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.
They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.
They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat.
Panj Pyaras during Amrit Sanchar explained this hypocrisy and that meat is not forbidden but it must be jhatka and not kutha.  The reasoning is causing an animal unnecessary suffering and sacrifcing something to God which also has the same divine light within (essentially what good does it do, to sacrifice part of God to God, of which we are also part of).  It's clear when you read Gurbani that it's the hypocrisy (false show) which is being spoken against and not the act of eating meat itself. 

So its your choice to eat meat or not.  Its your choice to eat eggs or not (which are not even considered to be meat but instead a product of an animal the same as dairy) Its your choice to eat dairy or not.  Again if one refrains from eating eggs and is staunch on that stance, but they drink milk, then they too are a hypocrite!  There have been studies also whcih have shown that plants do have a consciousness (rudimentary) and can react to pain by way of electrical signals... similar to a nervous system, which is actually measurable by scientific instruments. Life is everywhere... the divine light is everywhere.  Again, Gurbani focuses on our intent, our actions towards others (including plants and animals) and not so much on what we eat to sustain ourselves in this world.  Another example of this hypocrisy would be someone who refuses meat on the basis of spiritual reasons, but then goes and cuts down a forest to use the wood from the trees leaving destruction in their wake.  Certain tribal cultures in contrast, have existed in harmony with the environment, eating meat, but never leaving a trace they had even been to a location, because they take only very little from their surroundings, and replace what has been taken by replanting etc.  Who is more worthy of spiritual progression? The hypocrite who refuses all meat but destroys a forest, or the tribal person who lives in absolute harmony with their environment, while eating meat (providing the animal is killed quickly to minimize pain)???
Myself I am vegetarian not for spiritual reasons.  I prefer not to kill animals. I do eat eggs, and dairy.  I prefer not to eat vegetables where the plant itself is the meal (ie the plant dies). I try to eat vegetables where the part you eat is the seed pod, or flower etc. which falls of leaving the original plant to still live and provide more food. But if I do eat some plant which died to provide me food, I try to stick to organic, buy from farmers which continually contribute to regrowth etc. and don't just exploit the environment.
This is perfectly in harmony with SRM. Nihangs eat jhatka meat... they are also perfectly in harmony with Rehet Maryada.
I am trying to not be the hypocrite Guru Nanak Dev Ji warned us about.



 
 

Das do you (like Paapiman) think that being born female is a karmic punishment? He came straight out and said in other parts of this site that being born in a female body is a downgrade to a male body and thats why men are higher status than women in Waheguru's eyes. And he says that why men deserve more respect than women... I guess because our whole lives are seen as a punishment? That would suppose however that all women hate being women. Many do. But some love the bond they share with their children that men just don't seem to have. Women have power to create and give live (men contribute instructions but its the woman who has the power to actually build a whole new human out of her own body - and women can actually do this without male sperm now).  

Night and day coexist yes, but one does not have privilege over the other or is seen as in authority over the other. You could say they each rule 50% of the time. Perfect balance.  So why is the duality of male and female always seen as male in charge and women subordinate and must obey and be submissive to the male's orders and wishes??  Perhaps is some of this our own doing as cultural baggage, while the genders are supposed to be 50% co-heirs and rulers of the world as in night and day?  Or do you believe women are in a perpetual punishment their whole lives like Paapiman has said?? 
Now some Singhs on here tried to justify mens authority, etc by saying well women live longer than men usually so that makes up for things and women should just be greatful... well....

Kaam does NOT mean sex.  Or even lust!  Kaam is any UNCONTROLLED craving or desire.  
One can crave expensive cars or jewellery or even food. And that will be kaam!  But we will never say that answer is to cut out having a car all together. Or food! 

Sexual intimacy between husband and wife is normal. It's NOT KAAM.  Unless it becomes an excess craving or desire. Which yes CAN happen even in marriage but most normal married couples are not sex addicts!  Intimacy is a normal part of relationship between two people who love each other. 
Otherwise, if you don't want to be intimate with someone, then don't get married! 

I always thought Gurbani says that THIS is our chance. THIS lifetime. It's not concerned about some future lifetime... what we have here and now is our chance. Otherwise, you start over again. When you can finally attain a human body again, will you even remember? Will you feel the same drive toward spirituality? Will you waste away that life? As when you enter that life you will start again with amnesia... So don't waste this one in hopes of some future life.  
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ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਦੁਪਦੇ ॥
Āsā mėhlā 5 ḏupḏe.
Aasaa, Fifth Mehl, Du-Padas:
ਭਈ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹੁਰੀਆ ॥
Bẖa▫ī parāpaṯ mānukẖ ḏehurī▫ā.
You have been blessed with this human body.
ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੀ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥
Gobinḏ milaṇ kī ih ṯerī barī▫ā.
This is your chance to meet the Lord of the Universe.
ਅਵਰਿ ਕਾਜ ਤੇਰੈ ਕਿਤੈ ਨ ਕਾਮ ॥
Avar kāj ṯerai kiṯai na kām.
Other efforts are of no use to you.
ਮਿਲੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਭਜੁ ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮ ॥੧॥
Mil sāḏẖsangaṯ bẖaj keval nām. ||1||
Joining the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, vibrate and meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||1||
ਸਰੰਜਾਮਿ ਲਾਗੁ ਭਵਜਲ ਤਰਨ ਕੈ ॥
Saraʼnjām lāg bẖavjal ṯaran kai.
Make the effort, and cross over the terrifying world ocean.
ਜਨਮੁ ਬ੍ਰਿਥਾ ਜਾਤ ਰੰਗਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Janam baritha jāṯ rang mā▫i▫ā kai. ||1|| rahā▫o.
This human life is passing away in vain, in the love of Maya. ||1||Pause||
ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਨ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥
Jap ṯap sanjam ḏẖaram na kamā▫i▫ā.
I have not practiced meditation, penance, self-restraint or righteous living;
ਸੇਵਾ ਸਾਧ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇਆ ॥
Sevā sāḏẖ na jāni▫ā har rā▫i▫ā.
I have not served the Holy Saints, and I do not know the Lord, my King.
ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਮ ਨੀਚ ਕਰੰਮਾ ॥
Kaho Nānak ham nīcẖ karammā.
Says Nanak, my actions are vile and despicable;
ਸਰਣਿ ਪਰੇ ਕੀ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਸਰਮਾ ॥੨॥੨੯॥
Saraṇ pare kī rākẖo sarmā. ||2||29||
O Lord, I seek Your Sanctuary - please, preserve my honor. ||2||29||
------- ALSO -----
ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਤੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਮਾਈ ॥
Gur sevā ṯe bẖagaṯ kamā▫ī.
Serving the Guru, devotional worship is practiced.
ਤਬ ਇਹ ਮਾਨਸ ਦੇਹੀ ਪਾਈ ॥
Ŧab ih mānas ḏehī pā▫ī.
Then, this human body is obtained.
ਇਸ ਦੇਹੀ ਕਉ ਸਿਮਰਹਿ ਦੇਵ ॥
Is ḏehī ka▫o simrahi ḏev.
Even the gods long for this human body.
ਸੋ ਦੇਹੀ ਭਜੁ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ ॥੧॥
So ḏehī bẖaj har kī sev. ||1||
So vibrate that human body, and think of serving the Lord. ||1||
ਭਜਹੁ ਗੋੁਬਿੰਦ ਭੂਲਿ ਮਤ ਜਾਹੁ ॥
Bẖajahu gobinḏ bẖūl maṯ jāhu.
Vibrate, and meditate on the Lord of the Universe, and never forget Him.
ਮਾਨਸ ਜਨਮ ਕਾ ਏਹੀ ਲਾਹੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Mānas janam kā ehī lāhu. ||1|| rahā▫o.
This is the blessed opportunity of this human incarnation. ||1||Pause||
ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਜਰਾ ਰੋਗੁ ਨਹੀ ਆਇਆ ॥
Jab lag jarā rog nahī ā▫i▫ā.
As long as the disease of old age has not come to the body,
ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਕਾਲਿ ਗ੍ਰਸੀ ਨਹੀ ਕਾਇਆ ॥
Jab lag kāl garsī nahī kā▫i▫ā.
and as long as death has not come and seized the body,
ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਬਿਕਲ ਭਈ ਨਹੀ ਬਾਨੀ ॥
Jab lag bikal bẖa▫ī nahī bānī.
and as long as your voice has not lost its power,
ਭਜਿ ਲੇਹਿ ਰੇ ਮਨ ਸਾਰਿਗਪਾਨੀ ॥੨॥
Bẖaj lehi re man sārigpānī. ||2||
O mortal being, vibrate and meditate on the Lord of the World. ||2||
ਅਬ ਨ ਭਜਸਿ ਭਜਸਿ ਕਬ ਭਾਈ ॥
Ab na bẖajas bẖajas kab bẖā▫ī.
If you do not vibrate and meditate on Him now, when will you?
ਆਵੈ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਭਜਿਆ ਜਾਈ ॥
Āvai anṯ na bẖaji▫ā jā▫ī.
When the end comes, you will not be able to vibrate and meditate on Him.
ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਰਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਅਬ ਸਾਰੁ ॥
Jo kicẖẖ karahi so▫ī ab sār.
Whatever you have to do - now is the best time to do it.
ਫਿਰਿ ਪਛੁਤਾਹੁ ਨ ਪਾਵਹੁ ਪਾਰੁ ॥੩॥
Fir pathuṯāhu na pāvhu pār. ||3||
Otherwise, you shall regret and repent afterwards, and you shall not be carried across to the other side. ||3||
 

All is ONE, and ONE is ALL

The ONE contemplated itself. It had nothing else to contemplate, and in that contemplation, the 'spark' of creation.

The ONE we know is formless, yet possesses all forms. How can this be?

If we look at quantum physics, we know that the base of all the Universe is vibration... pure frequency.

Light, heat, radio, radiation, colour, sound, even matter itself all exists through vibration. Thought too, is pure frequency and brainwaves can be measured by EEG.

Why is this important? The clues MUST be within the Universe itself... consciousness, is formless, yet can possess all forms (dreams, imagery, thought, creativity) Thoughts do not take up 'space' they create space (imagine yourself dreaming, how can you quantify the space your dream takes?)

This is important, because the base of all existence is pure frequency. At the lowest end is said to be sound... Every major religion in the world, speaks of a primal sound or 'word' that created the Universe. Most go beyond that and say that the word or sound itself IS God.

My thoughts on anahad naad, is that it's the direct experience of this primal 'sound' - which goes way beyond simply hearing a sound... as you yourself are created into existence by this same force, then the experience going within and interacting directly with the source, is overwhelming. It's not just hearing something, but actually experiencing the base truth of existence. And that truth is ONEness. That everything we know as matter, separateness, even our own identity is an illusion. It's no longer belief... it's knowing.

By going within, you are actually dissolving the illusion and discovering the truth of your existence. You do hear an audible sound... which itself is indescribable, and I have only gotten to this stage and also OBEs, but beyond this is only actually merging with it. Laying down your whole built up identity and becoming one with it. I have not reached that stage.

These thoughts are only my own, I in no way purport to be any sort of expert...

Sukrit Kaur Bhenji .... Crystal is the same person who called me a transvestite and man in drag because I tie a dastaar... All he knows how to do is insult others while boosting his own ego.  Notice how he bad mouths AKJ ? Even Jarnail Singh Bindranwale had high views of AKJ.  And that attitude he has towards AKJ is the same way he sees us Singhnis. In fact the last few days posts saying we are female because we are being punished only shows how they see us.  And by they I don't mean all men or all Singhs before anyone jumps on me... I mean they as in certain Singhs on this forum and they know who they are. No not you Singh12345677$

and similarly she deserves your respect and not on any less of a scale.  Respect goes both ways... You don't deserve respect just because you are a man... You deserve respect when you treat others likewise and and are a good human being.
you make it sound like you believe that men deserve respect just for being men.... But women only deserve respect when they have your idea of 'class'?  What about when a man is acting like a 'slapper'? (Not exactly sure what that is)

More evidence against this nonsense of seeing husband AS God:
SGGSJ Ang 1353-1354


 
ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯ nām karṯā purakẖ nirbẖa▫o nirvair akāl mūraṯ ajūnī saibẖaʼn gur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. Truth Is The Name. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying. Beyond Birth. Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace: 
ਕਤੰਚ ਮਾਤਾ ਕਤੰਚ ਪਿਤਾ ਕਤੰਚ ਬਨਿਤਾ ਬਿਨੋਦ ਸੁਤਹ ॥
Kaṯancẖ māṯā kaṯancẖ piṯā kaṯancẖ baniṯā binoḏ suṯah.
Who is the mother, and who is the father? Who is the son, and what is the pleasure of marriage? 
ਕਤੰਚ ਭ੍ਰਾਤ ਮੀਤ ਹਿਤ ਬੰਧਵ ਕਤੰਚ ਮੋਹ ਕੁਟੰਬ੍ਯ੍ਯਤੇ ॥
Kaṯancẖ bẖarāṯ mīṯ hiṯ banḏẖav kaṯancẖ moh kutamb▫yaṯe.
Who is the brother, friend, companion and relative? Who is emotionally attached to the family? 
ਕਤੰਚ ਚਪਲ ਮੋਹਨੀ ਰੂਪੰ ਪੇਖੰਤੇ ਤਿਆਗੰ ਕਰੋਤਿ ॥ 
Kaṯancẖ cẖapal mohnī rūpaʼn pekẖanṯe ṯi▫āgaʼn karoṯ.
Who is restlessly attached to beauty? It leaves, as soon as we see it. 
ਰਹੰਤ ਸੰਗ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਸਿਮਰਣ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਬਧ੍ਯ੍ਯੰ ਅਚੁਤ ਤਨਹ ॥੧॥
Rahanṯ sang bẖagvān simraṇ Nānak labḏẖa▫yaʼn acẖuṯ ṯanah. ||1||
Only the meditative remembrance of God remains with us. O Nanak, it brings the blessings of the Saints, the sons of the Imperishable Lord. ||1|| 
ਧ੍ਰਿਗੰਤ ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਸਨੇਹੰ ਧ੍ਰਿਗ ਸਨੇਹੰ ਭ੍ਰਾਤ ਬਾਂਧਵਹ ॥
Ḏẖariganṯ māṯ piṯā sanehaʼn ḏẖarig sanehaʼn bẖarāṯ bāʼnḏẖvah.
Cursed is loving attachment to one's mother and father; cursed is loving attachment to one's siblings and relatives. 
ਧ੍ਰਿਗ ਸ੍ਨੇਹੰ ਬਨਿਤਾ ਬਿਲਾਸ ਸੁਤਹ ॥
Ḏẖarig snėh▫aʼn baniṯā bilās suṯah.
Cursed is attachment to the joys of family life with one's spouse and children. 
ਧ੍ਰਿਗ ਸ੍ਨੇਹੰ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਾਰਥ ਕਹ ॥
Ḏẖarig snėh▫aʼn garihārath kah.
Cursed is attachment to household affairs. 
ਸਾਧਸੰਗ ਸ੍ਨੇਹ ਸਤ੍ਯ੍ਯਿੰ ਸੁਖਯੰ ਬਸੰਤਿ ਨਾਨਕਹ ॥੨॥
Sāḏẖsang snėh saṯi▫yaʼn sukẖ▫yaʼn basanṯ nānkah. ||2||
Only loving attachment to the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, is True. Nanak dwells there in peace. ||2|| 
 
This shabad continues, telling us this body is false and only God is true. It asks us directly who is the Mother and Facther in actuality? The truth we see further down, where it makes it clear that God IS every character. 
 
So how can there be any idea at all that a wife should see her physical husband as God as if there is some heirarchy?  And the nonesense that women are half humans, and downgrades to men LOL.
Similarly there is not one single line in Gurbani telling women to obey men or that they are in any way subordinate.  This is culture and not Sikhi.
 

This is not evidence, as this is the subject of the dispute itself!  LOL Even some on here said the original in Punjabi does not have that line...
 
And as I said, if a man is being worshipped as God, he BETTER BE LIVING ALL THE QUALITIES OF GOD EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THEIR MARRIED LIFE.... which means he would have already recognized the divine light in his Singhni as well, and see her as his Patni Parmeshwari.  Otherwise he is not worthy of being seen as God.  In fact only God is worthy of that...

Husband is also to look upon his wife as patni parshmewari meaning both husband and wife are too see God in each other but your translation of that shabad is wrong.  The shabad is saying that all humans are to take God as their husband lord. It's suggesting that no human is worthy of this sacrifice only God is. Your translation of the last two lines are wrong as it says that those wives (male and female both as all souls are feminine) who see the transcendent lord as husband... Ie only give themselves to God and no human...It's not those wives who see their physical husband as God over them. This is wrong thinking. 
 
Though as Gurmukhs we are to see the divine in each other and in everyone. There is no hierarchy where men are Gods over women... This is wishful thinking of men.
 
But not surprising to see this wrong thinking come from a male who thinks of women as only half human.  
 
Sikhi sees husbands and wives as equals... Two halves of one whole.  If husband is seen as a God over his wife then how can they be in a mutually loving relationship? They can never... Unless they both sacrifice for each other and see (and serve) the divine light in each other.  Mutually....
Otherwise the marriage is only for the males benefit and it's essentially sanctioned slavery of women.  
 
 
And paapiman not this is truly how you think of women, you will never ever ever have a happy wife but instead she will resent you... That is if you can even get a woman to agree to marry you which is not likely once she knows you think of her as only half a human and a 'downgrade' to being male.  If you are ok being miserable and alone and want to spend your life trying to justify to yourself (because you aren't convincing anyone else) that women are so lowly and inferior, then you will be miserable and alone and your obsession to put women down and take away the equality the Gurus gave women then you will have to answer for it one day.  Just remember that... Do you think the Gurus demanded subordination of women or do you think they wanted equal treatment and respect? If you think it's the first one then you better be damn sure because someday you WILL have to explain to Guru Ji yourself.

Well this is obvious, in how you view women so much lower than yourself.  You are actually the poster child for the definition of "male chauvenist".
Even if you can't yet SEE that God resides in women the same as you... it's still YOUR CHOICE to at least TREAT women equally.  
Nobody is asking you think women and men are identical.  Even two men are never identical... What Sikhi is asking you to do though is to TREAT EVERYONE EQUALLY.  Give EVERYONE the same respect and give EVERYONE the same opportunities.  Don't limit some while giving privilege to others based on stupid things like physical strength.  Those who have less physical strength are likely stronger mentally, or scientifically, or mathematically, or artistically, or musically etc.  No two people will ever be identical.  Get past gender as the only difference.  Learn to appreciate others based on their merits and what they personally bring to the table instead of judging them based on what's between their legs.  Having a penis or extra testosterone doesn't make you better, or worthy to be seen as a demi God.  You need to get over it... even if you can't yet SEE that God is in everyone equally, you can start by at least TREATING everyone equally!!!!  At least you would be espousing the qualities of God.  How you treat people is purely your own choice.  And you don't have to be a Brahamgyani to treat people equally! 
God exists in ALL.  This even includes minerals (rocks). There are different levels of unfolding consciousness ---- mineral > plant > animal > human. You are right in that the same divine light is in everything.  The difference is, and it is explained in Gurbani as such:  This HUMAN body is our CHANCE to meet and merge to Waheguru Ji.  Gurbani does NOT say this MALE body... it merely says this HUMAN body.  That pretty much says that male / female does not matter.  The human form is the highest spiritual state we can achieve to merge back with the Creator... know why???? Because as human we can finally contemplate God and ask the very questions "Who am I?" and "Why am I here?"  As animal, individual consciousness is less developed though telepathic species consciousness exists stronger.  But animals lack the developed individuality to ask those questions... in short... they can't contemplate God.  A plant even less so...   To compare the difference between male and female with the difference between human and animal is hugely wrong!!!!  Both female and male human can equally contemplate Waheguru.  And Gurbani says this HUMAN body is our chance to meet God and is RARE.  It doesn't say that only males can merge back with God... it says HUMAN.  In order for plants / animals / minerals to get to this point they too must go through spiritual unfolding consciousness and descend into individuality... because only in this SEPARATE form, with fully individual consciousness, can we actually contemplate God.  Throughout this process, gender means very little outside of propagation of the species.  
 

Paapiman, everyone is supposed to see God in EVERYONE ELSE.  Nobody is to be seen or worshipped as higher than anyone else.  A younger brother does not see his brother as a Demi God.  He might seek advise from an elder brother who has experience. But that doesn't mean the elder brother is a demi God over the younger one!  They are both equal.  It doesn't matter who was born first!  
A man is also supposed to see God in his wife just as much as she is supposed to see God in him. But neither are a demi god above the other... 
There is no heirarchy there.  Both are equal and deserve equal respect.
And there is no tuk which says women are to see their husband as a demi God.  You are misusing Gurbani for your own selfish purposes by taking it out of context. I can equally twist Gurbani to make bold claims about men too. This is why Gurbani MUST BE TAKEN IN CONTEXT OF THE SHABAD!!! That's how you get the actual true meaning of it!  Otherwise, there are no checks and balances and anyone can pull a single tuk and make it mean whatever they want!

^ Not likely!  I'm not anyone's doormat... faithful or otherwise... sorry.  And demi-God???!!!!! Give me a break! No human is worthy to be called a demi God... first of all there is only ONE God,... Waheguru.... and no human approaches that!  Secondly, men are not above women... sorry to burst your make egotistical thinking there Paapiman! You are just as human as every other human... and you aren't God over women... you don't get to 'Lord it' over women. 
 Sikhi gives both genders equality... one is not God over the other... you are seriously skewed in your thinking Paapiman! Go join Raagmala and hire a live in maid... that's what you are looking for! I'm sure you could pay a woman to worship you as a God if you paid her well enough. 
And the demi God thing... That's right out of Laws of Manu... not Sikhi! There is not one line in Gurbani which says men are Gods over women... 
Perfect example of Brahministic thinking that crept into Sikhi... 
And that one tuk you keep taking out of context, you can't do that.  And yes context very much is necessary, or else you lose the meaning of the shabad.  And if you could just take any line and twist it how you want, then we could make anything ok by Gurbani. 
Please stop denigrating women... and please stop making Sikhi look like it puts women into subservient inferior role when it doesn't.  Our Gurus worked hard to give women equality and you want to take it away and make women into domestic robots.  

My final words on this topic: 
I am female and I am tying a turban and nobody will stop me.  I dont care if someone think I am a transexual. I am not.  My husband specifically wanted a turban wearing Singhni and he the most amazing person ever.  He wanted a spiritual partner and not a model.  
There is nothing in any rehet maryada saying women can not. And in fact there is evidence pointing to the fact that women *should* tie one. Not mandatory, but its suggested in several rhetnamas with the wording *should* in reference to women tying one.  
I chose to follow that *should* and so I do.  
If another girl chooses not to, that is her choice.  Most don't.  I understand their decision.  Majority of them want hairstyles, and to be able to dress up and look pretty.  For myself, I am not drawn to makeup, or lots of jewelry (I do wear a necklace once in awhile). And I want to keep my kesh protected which I don't cut because I am Amritdhari.  I also like that I can move around freely without worrying about a chunni falling off.  At home I use those expandable bandanas that cover your whole top of your head.  But in public I always have turban on for the last 2 full years now.  I don't ever intend to stop. 

I have to disagree with you BhagatSingh Ji... about women not being as spiritual or meditating etc. I think it's just that women have not felt the need to speak openly about it as much, or if they did, they were held back from doing so for fear of not being taken seriously in a society that saw women as lower spiritually then men. I think both gender equally have the same capacity for spiritual awareness and awakening.

I think the Gurus being male was more because of society at that time would never have taken women seriously, and women being uplifted to equal status, the ideal had to come from men.

Besides I think there are far more Sants who were female than we will ever know, but since they were not written about like the men, and because women usually do not feel the need to parade around stating to everyone that they are, they were kind of lost in history.

I have talked personally to far more women who have had natural spiritual experiences (without even trying) than men who have.

Anyone else get a feeling that Kaalka is really either Crystal or Chatanga?  In fact, Crystal has actually called me transsexual before if anyone remembers...
Anyway water off a duck's back :D Kaalka I told you, perseverance. And though some members have differing opinions than me on some things, turban tying women is NOT one of them. 
Admins, though I am not bothered by such things, and it only shows his immaturity (and it shows his frustration that he was not able to push his point and have everyone agree with him so he just lashed out because he's ticked off) I think that some amount of moderation should ensue because for one there are maybe young people coming here, and two that type of behaviour is most definitely not becoming of a Singh (or Kaur).

Newsflash Gurmat does not state that women must be treated as inferior to men... men say women must be treated as inferior to men.

So now you are suggesting that Singhnis were not trained to defend themselves either? (implying she would have been seen as 'weak' and unable to defend herself thus opening them up to an attack?) Need I remind you of Mai Bhago? 
Anyway, Nihung Singhnis were always required to tie dastars.  It's in their maryada. It's also in taksali maryada as well.  So for both those sampardas, women are requried. And since both are supposed to be going back all the way to Guru Gobind Singh Ji's time.... also Mai Bhago was told directly by Guru Ji to tie a turban. It's also in Guru Gobind Singh Ji's 52 Hukams that everyone must tie a turban. (and it does not state only males). 

The photo I posted the Singh is wearing kacheras... and the turban style is Nihung style... in fact nihung Singhnis have always tied dastars.  

I agree, the skimpy choli is not becoming of a Singhni.  She looks like a bimbo showing off her body.  And rehetnamas ALL are clear that kesh must be covered at all times, so even if a SInghni chooses not to tie turban (as per SRM being optional) then she should still cover with a chunni.  However as I posted above, both taksal maryada and nihung maryada explicitly state it's required of both males and females to tie a keski / dastar. Whether or not they do it consistently is a different story. But ALL of the Nihung SInghnis I know tie dastars and were told they were required to when they took amrit. 

Akal Takht Sahib would disagree...along with the Panj Pyaras I took amrit from! (have a read about women masands who had authority to initiate via charan amrit) Anyway different topic...look closely at the painting I posted. It's not hair... It's definitely a keski.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji's 52 Hukams:
35 Dastaar binaa nahee rehnaa|
(doesn't say only men, so women too are required)
"Each candidate for Baptism be made to wear kachhehra, tie hair in a topknot and cover the same with dastaar; wear Sri Sahib (i.e. Kirpan) in Gaatra (shoulder belt). Then he/she should stand with folded hands. (Rahitnama Bhai Daya Singh Ji)
Taksal Maryada:
For the respect of your hair, two turbans are to be tied, tying each layer one at a time.  There should be a small turban tied underneath and a larger one tied above this.  Women must not plait their hair and should keep their hair tied in a bun/top-knot, in order to respect your Kesh a small turban should be tied. 
The Nihang Bibian are dastaardhari, and many contend maintain the original form and discipline of the Khalsa.  Their Nitnem Gutka defines that every Gursikh man and woman (Singh and Singhni is the wording used) should have a blue keski in their hair.
Okay now let's see what you have as weight on this issue!

I take it you are against Singhnis wearing turbans... That photo above you can't tell if she is Sikh or Hindu.... so much for standing out. Not only that, she appears to have a nose piercing which is a big no no after taking Amrit.  Rest of jewelry is also debatable as some sects rehet maryada even is against jewelry at all. 
Here is a historical painting showing a keski on the woman. This depiction the woman looks much more like a Sikh. Wearing bana and keski and no nose piercing and no belly showing from skimpy choli and a mountain of jewelry and makeup. Since the Gurus advocated that 'naam' is our jewelry, I find it strange that Sikh women would have been made up like painted dolls. I think this painting below is much more accurate:

I think he means the four classes like priest class then rulers then skilled workers then servants.  But prior to Sikhi I actually thought Jatts were farmers and considered landowners so they were somewhere either rulers (land owner) or skilled worker... But I could be wrong. Anyway Sikhi got rid of such none sense. Any distinctions used to classify one human over another based on things out of their control were eliminated. Yes that also includes gender as well! Obviously the traits themselves were not removed. People still have family history. That is unchangeable and same with someone's skin colour or gender. What was removed were all the perceived hierarchies saying one person is better than another or has more privileges because of these things which is wrong. 
Also remember as a woman you are not below men. Remember that. Because it's what Guru Nanak Dev Ji taught us! Don't let these guys make you think you are worth less than a man or that because you were born in a female body you have less rights or that they somehow deserve more respect than you do. In actually ALL humans deserve same respect. These guys keep talking about women respecting men and they don't realize the easiest way to get women to respect then, is if they start respecting women on equal level. They will get all the respect they want then! But they'd rather fight it, see us as lower and then demand respect. I respect my husband not because he's a man and I'm lower than him. I respect him because he treats me as an equal human and gives me the same treatment he would want fm be treated. Same dignity. So I highly respect him!!!! 
Anyway this is only instruction we need to follow on this (regarding caste and gender):
"As Gurmukh, look upon ALL with single eye of equality, for in each and every heart the divine light is contained." - Guru Nanak Dev Ji  (SGGSJ Ang 599) 
Paapiman already said he can not follow the above that he thinks only a Brahamgiani can... But then he said all wives are to see God in their husbands. Psst if women can see God in their husbands that means wives are Brahamgianis?? Lol ask Paapiman! Because he says he can never follow that instruction from Guru Nanak Dev Ji and his reason is he is not a Brahamgiani! But he says women are required to... ;) that makes us Brahamgianis I guess. That or he is just using that excuse to not have to see God in everyone because he doesn't want to. 

Then Sikhism is not the truth it touts itself to be... Unfortunately. Because our creator would not want this.  It seems Sikhism is not following its own scripture then... because this is what Gurbani says:
Page 599, Line 2
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਏਕ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮੋਈ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥
गुरमुखि एक द्रिसटि करि देखहु घटि घटि जोति समोई जीउ ॥२॥
Gurmukẖ ek ḏarisat kar ḏekẖhu gẖat gẖat joṯ samo▫ī jī▫o. ||2||
As Gurmukh, look upon all with the single eye of equality; in each and every heart, the Divine Light is contained. ||2||
Page 446, Line 12
ਸਭ ਏਕ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਸਮਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖੈ ਸਭੁ ਆਤਮ ਰਾਮੁ ਪਛਾਨ ਜੀਉ ॥
सभ एक द्रिसटि समतु करि देखै सभु आतम रामु पछान जीउ ॥
Sabẖ ek ḏarisat samaṯ kar ḏekẖai sabẖ āṯam rām pacẖẖān jī▫o.
They look upon all with equality, and recognize the Supreme Soul, the Lord, pervading among all.
Page 93, Line 18
ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਸਮ ਦਲ ਸਮਝਾਵੈ ਕੋਊ ॥੩॥
रविदास सम दल समझावै कोऊ ॥३॥
Raviḏās sam ḏal samjẖāvai ko▫ū. ||3||
O Ravi Daas, one who understands that the Lord is equally in all, is very rare. ||3||
Page 879, Line 14
ਏਕ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਏਕੋ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਭੀਖਿਆ ਭਾਇ ਸਬਦਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਾਸੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
एक द्रिसटि एको करि देखिआ भीखिआ भाइ सबदि त्रिपतासै ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ėk ḏarisat eko kar ḏekẖi▫ā bẖīkẖi▫ā bẖā▫e sabaḏ ṯaripṯāsai. ||1|| rahā▫o.
He looks impartially, equally upon all. He receives the charity of the Lord's Love, and the Word of the Shabad, and so he is satisfied. ||1||Pause||
Page 1103, Line 18
ਦਰਸਨੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਭਏ ਸਮਦਰਸੀ ਏਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵਹਿਗੇ ॥੨॥
दरसनु छोडि भए समदरसी एको नामु धिआवहिगे ॥२॥
Ḏarsan cẖẖod bẖa▫e samaḏrasī eko nām ḏẖi▫āvhige. ||2||
Giving up the different schools of philosophy, I look upon all equally; I meditate only on the One Name. ||2||
 
There are many many more examples like the above.  But its obvious that many Singhs like to tout a version of Sikhi where men are in charge, men rule, women are ruled, men dictate, women obey, men are respected, women do the respecting, men lead, women follow. And this is considered 'roles'.  It's a 'role' to be forced into subordination I guess. 
I'll follow Gurbani not this male dominated, egoistical, version of Sikhism that has no place for women (except under men's feet or in the kitchen).  
 
 

Pure Iron (i.e.: elemental iron) is very difficult to find in nature, and is not very useful. Iron needs to be alloyed to be useful.

Sarbloh, is wrought iron - which due to low smelting temperatures, has the lowest amount of carbon in it (~1%), and was worked into forms, while cast iron was smelted higher temperatures and ended up with higher carbon content (~5%) and was poured into moulds (cast). Both have their benefits... wrought iron is strong in tension, but not compression, while cast iron is stronger in compression but less so in tension. (as a side note, due to these qualities, cast iron would have been better than wrought for shastars blades etc.) and even karas as cast iron would withstand a blow from a sword much better and protect the wrist better.

It gets even more complicated when we start adding 'white' iron which is pretty close to wrought iron in carbon content but it is a cast iron not wrought. It resists rust better. It still retains the magnetic properties though. Steel is actually an alloy of iron as well. It was natural for weapons to progress to steel blades due to steel's hardness and tensile strength. It loses its magnetic properties however.

The difference we are talking about in carbon content (deemed as 'impurities') is a mere few percent. Those who say sarbloh is the only acceptable metal for karas and kirpan blades, are basically saying that the acceptable % of carbon must be only a couple percent at most.

Some people do react though to wrought iron against the skin since it's very reactive and oxidizes easily. Hence, why some people require to wear surgical stainless steel kara... I hear white iron karas also work well for people with these issues.

But... there are no karas in existence made purely of elemental (pure) iron... It's just not possible since it's the smelting / melting process that actually causes the carbon content, and without melting the metal, you'd never be able to work it.

A few more...
On the blackboard, an English Professor wrote the words:
A woman without her man is nothing

He asked his students to punctuate it correctly.
All the males wrote:
"A woman without her man, is nothing."
All the females wrote:
"A woman: Without her, man is nothing."

There was a science teacher sitting in the back, and much to the male student's chagrin, he admitted the female students were correct.
Without women giving birth, men would not even be here (hmm sounds a lot like what Guru Nanak Dev Ji said!!
And then he told the male students to remember that women can function just fine on their own, while they are sleeping outside in the dog house.
 
Which brings me to this:



Dictionary definition of the word "Single"