MrDoaba

Puratan maryada does have HOM/HAVAN..Brahm Kawach mentions 

Sikhism is an Indic religion so the base is going to be the same.

I recall being told that my great-grandfather had some, what we would call supernatural, abilities. Apparently he could cure dog bites, scorpion bites and possibly snake bites too.
He did this all with secret Mantars recited under his breath along with some physical actions using various samagari.
These Mantars were never revealed and neither were their origin. Albeit children were told one had to go to the Shamshaan grounds at night to learn them, probably to sh1t them up.
And no this wasn't black magic or jadu toona. I guess it would be classed as some kind of Ridhi Sidhi as it was used for the seva of the community.
After constantly questioning my elders I found out that this practise was more widespread in the days of old. Most of the “treatments” I speak of were mainly for health related issues, anything from a tooth ache to the venomous scorpion bites mentioned above. Although, it wasn’t unheard of for people to have various other powerful Mantars such as those used to control fire and the flow of water etc.
As a youngster I was very curious and still am about this secret held by our Bazurg. As I got older I eventually concluded that these Mantars were most likely Sanatan in origin, given that various Devi Devte are attributed to specific protections.
Now before people start saying this had no place in Gurmat blah blah, understand I’m merely wanting to comprehend this in a historical and theological context. I have no interest in learning any Mantars and becoming a healer.
The point of my thread is to find out the origin of them and which if any, individual Devi Devte are associated with them along with any sakhis.
Any discussion and feedback is welcome!

Yeah I found this out a few years ago Veere.
My great-grandad never used to charge for his services.
I've also heard that when one uses Gurbani to cure anothers illness etc they take on the rog themselves. Any idea why this would occur?

Thanks for your reply bro.
I'm aware of the Mantars from Gurbani which can cure diseases from Sharda Puran Granth etc. Tbh I don't think they were from Gurbani due to the secrecy. Do you have any idea where else they could be from?
And what is the significance of these locations?

Thats interesting thanks veer i didn't know that.
As das never touches any nasha or intoxics i don't know how these things work other than pain killers

Ingredients : Akarkara, Sonth, Clove, Caffron, Pipal, Nutmeg Javitri, Chandan, Hingul, Sulphur and Opium.
 
It might be these, ayurvedic opium. Same thing.

While it probably does have pain killing properties they don't actually use it for that. They use it for its stimulant effect bro. Big misconception is that it makes you doped out and slow, quite the opposite. Still very addictive if not used correctly.
Basically taking kaali naagni is phatteh chakne. Gives you josh.

Yes i rather have Baba prem singh cause he is not a thief, crook or murderer

How was your trip to the Gurdwara?

I am not saying you as you clarified he had to nothing to do with murder of baba bahudar singh ji. I am speaking about another post which there was suggestion of implicating him for someone murder. Implicating someone on somebody murder on social media or on forums is extremely serious. I had to act responsibly a draw fine line. Hence, those posts were removed. I still do have the back up of those posts in case they want to edit them and re-post without implicating person from western country as there are serious laws surrounding suing for serious defamation.

Regardless of whether one believes in Dasam bani or not, many sections are pure treasure houses of poetic and musical beauty.
See this:
Guru Gobind Singh's masterful poetic dexterity is on display below, which is a portion from his Chandi Chritar. The Tenth King uses a literary device known as antanaclasis, or in Braj and Sanskrit literature, Yamak Alankar, whereby the same word will be used repeatably with varying different meanings. The word Hari, has 44 definitions, and Guru Gobind Singh uses 14 separate meanings in this single stanza to describe the beauty of the Goddess.   ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਮੁਖ ਹੈ ਹਰਿਤੀ ਦੁਖ ਹੈ ਅਲਿਕੈ ਹਰ ਹਾਰ ਪ੍ਰਭਾ ਹਰਿਨੀ ਹੈ ॥ Her face is akin to the moon(1), beholding of which all suffering is dispelled(2), her curly hair even surpasses(3) the magnificence of Shiva's(4) garland of snakes.   ਲੋਚਨ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਸੇ ਸਰਸੇ ਹਰਿ ਸੇ ਭਰੁਟੇ ਹਰਿ ਸੀ ਬਰੁਨੀ ਹੈ ॥ Her eyes are like lotus flowers(5), her eyebrows are like bows(6), and her eyelashes are like arrows(7).   ਕੇਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਕਰਿਹਾ ਚਲਬੋ ਹਰਿ ਪੈ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਹਰਿਨੀ ਤਰਨੀ ਹੈ ॥ Her waist is slim like that of a lion(8), [the rhythm in] her stride is [graceful] like an elephant(9), [her beauty] surpasses that of the wife of Kamdevta(10).   ਹੈ ਕਰ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਪੈ ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਹਰਿ ਰੂਪ ਕੀਏ ਹਰ ਕੀ ਧਰਨੀ ਹੈ ॥੮੮॥ Shiva's wife [Chandi](11), with a sword(12) in hand, riding atop a tiger(13), is enchanting like the Sun(14). ਦਸਮ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਅੰਗ 82 Dasam Guru Granth Sahib, page 82  
The word Hari is used for: 1) moon, 2) dispelling, 3) surpassing/stealing, 4) Shiva, 5) lotus flowers, 6) bow, 7) arrows, 8) lion, 9) elephant, 10) Kamdevta, 11) Chandi, 12) sword, 13) tiger, 14) Sun   This literary device is mentioned by the great poet, Santhok Singh, in his Jap Ji Sahib Commentary, Garab Ganji Tika, where he writes:   ਇਕ ਪਦ ਵਾਰ ਅਨੇਕ ਜਿ ਆਵੈ, ਅਰਥਹਿ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਪ੍ਰਗਟਾਵੈ, ਸੋ ਯਮਕਾਲੰਕਾਰ ਬਖਾਨੈ, ਕਵਿ ਸੰਤੋਖਸਿੰਘ ਗੁਣੀ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨੈ । When one word is reused many times, with varying meanings springing forth, this is called Yamak Alankar, Poet Santhok Singh relates these characteristics and evidence.   (ਗਰਬਗੰਜਨੀ ਟੀਕਾ, Garabganjini Tika, 1829CE) https://www.manglacharan.com/home/lyrical-dexterity-from-patshahi-10

Just wondering if there any sikh psychologist on this forum, if so,  tell us about your experience being psychologist- what are some of cases and crisis situations you have to deal with in daily life? what are common issues people have?
How do you incorporate sikhi teaching into your daily profession?

haha nice one,  yeah man. If you are married, just do it..thinking about it causes suffering, causes more desires-ensues more karma, the problem is wider society made sex so trivial, everyone is thinking about it more than doing it without thinking but in reality need for it is similar to eating, one eats food, becomes one with food the cycle continues, thats it not even more second is spend thinking about it.
Has anyone heard of someone taking rebirth either in literature or katha because  need of food? NO!!, sex is same thing, its biological need for humans, its not the sex causes karma/samsara-suffering/rebirth its just the desire for it/thoughts about it causes future wheel of suffering in birth and death.

Absolutely correct.. 

It may well exist in Sanatan Mat, and in Sikhi too. But a couple of points brother: It does not define the faith. It is not a fundemental of the faith. Nor is it an absolute necessity. And it certainly isn't a core teaching for those who choose grist jeevan.
As for the Christianity comments, those were in response to you saying that all types of sexual activity, as a whole, are an outright "sin"; an attitude which was prevelant in many Christian societies (and still is in some). This is partly one of the reasons why sex is viewed with such a liberal attitude in the west today. It being a "sin" simply isn't true for Sikhi.
Sexual repression can be dangerous, and can have damaging personal and social consequences.
I'm not denying celibacy as a concept. It has its advantages, but it is not for the masses. It is reserved for select individuals. Celibacy in marriage, as ridiculous as I think it may be, works for some and that's fine, but such teachings are not for widespread consumption as they do not apply to the majority and are not promoted in Sikhi as a must or even as something one should strive for.
To promote it as unquestionable doctrine is a complete misrepresentation of grist jeevan in Sikhi.
If, and when, a couple make the decision to live a life of married celibacy, then the info is out there for them, and if they are truly committed to it they shall find it as it's only intended for those who have voluntarily made such a choice.
My humble Namaskaar to the great Rishis and their Gyaan which still lives on today. But lets be real here, the chances of one becoming a Rishi in todays day and age, are extremely far and few between.
Those who practise celibacy, married or not, Rishis or not, practise it not because sex is a sin/bad/evil, but because it's not compatible with their preferred lifestyle. They see it a a hindrance to their specific goals, goals I might add, which the majority are not aiming for nor intend to.

It may well exist in Sanatan Mat, and in Sikhi too. But a couple of points brother: It does not define the faith. It is not a fundemental of the faith. Nor is it an absolute necessity. And it certainly isn't a core teaching for those who choose grist jeevan.
As for the Christianity comments, those were in response to you saying that all types of sexual activity, as a whole, are an outright "sin"; an attitude which was prevelant in many Christian societies (and still is in some). This is partly one of the reasons why sex is viewed with such a liberal attitude in the west today. It being a "sin" simply isn't true for Sikhi.
Sexual repression can be dangerous, and can have damaging personal and social consequences.
I'm not denying celibacy as a concept. It has its advantages, but it is not for the masses. It is reserved for select individuals. Celibacy in marriage, as ridiculous as I think it may be, works for some and that's fine, but such teachings are not for widespread consumption as they do not apply to the majority and are not promoted in Sikhi as a must or even as something one should strive for.
To promote it as unquestionable doctrine is a complete misrepresentation of grist jeevan in Sikhi.
If, and when, a couple make the decision to live a life of married celibacy, then the info is out there for them, and if they are truly committed to it they shall find it as it's only intended for those who have voluntarily made such a choice.
My humble Namaskaar to the great Rishis and their Gyaan which still lives on today. But lets be real here, the chances of one becoming a Rishi in todays day and age, are extremely far and few between.
Those who practise celibacy, married or not, Rishis or not, practise it not because sex is a sin/bad/evil, but because it's not compatible with their preferred lifestyle. They see it a a hindrance to their specific goals, goals I might add, which the majority are not aiming for nor intend to.

It may well exist in Sanatan Mat, and in Sikhi too. But a couple of points brother: It does not define the faith. It is not a fundemental of the faith. Nor is it an absolute necessity. And it certainly isn't a core teaching for those who choose grist jeevan.
As for the Christianity comments, those were in response to you saying that all types of sexual activity, as a whole, are an outright "sin"; an attitude which was prevelant in many Christian societies (and still is in some). This is partly one of the reasons why sex is viewed with such a liberal attitude in the west today. It being a "sin" simply isn't true for Sikhi.
Sexual repression can be dangerous, and can have damaging personal and social consequences.
I'm not denying celibacy as a concept. It has its advantages, but it is not for the masses. It is reserved for select individuals. Celibacy in marriage, as ridiculous as I think it may be, works for some and that's fine, but such teachings are not for widespread consumption as they do not apply to the majority and are not promoted in Sikhi as a must or even as something one should strive for.
To promote it as unquestionable doctrine is a complete misrepresentation of grist jeevan in Sikhi.
If, and when, a couple make the decision to live a life of married celibacy, then the info is out there for them, and if they are truly committed to it they shall find it as it's only intended for those who have voluntarily made such a choice.
My humble Namaskaar to the great Rishis and their Gyaan which still lives on today. But lets be real here, the chances of one becoming a Rishi in todays day and age, are extremely far and few between.
Those who practise celibacy, married or not, Rishis or not, practise it not because sex is a sin/bad/evil, but because it's not compatible with their preferred lifestyle. They see it a a hindrance to their specific goals, goals I might add, which the majority are not aiming for nor intend to.

I agree with u on this..👍🏻 So many people think sex is a sin. We are suppose to keep sex under control and not keep thinking it’s a sin even with our partner in marriage. Everything becomes sin when not under control.. it doesn’t apply only for sex. 

Fair enough, but that is their interpretation. Plus Sants/Babe are not infallible IMO. Also, what they say does not apply to everyone.
What about to strengthen the bond between man and wife? Sex is more than just for pleasure. If it is only for procreation, then why get married in the first place? It does not make sense logically. Why such importance on Anand Kaaraj or on married life? Why not just have babies out of wedlock?
Science is so advanced now, why don't people use that to produce children? Because according to what you're saying, sex is now obsolete.
This is a extreme and somewhat ridiculous observation. So that means having sex for the purpose of procreation is also a sin which is even more ridiculous.
That means pretty much everything we do is a sin.
I do know what it means. I may be new to this forum but I'm not new to Sikhi! Good point, I only know of one Sikh who keeps Bibek. Never met him though.
Now I'm confused. So Guru Sahib has given permission to enjoy sex for pleasure? You do have a good point about wasting energy. But many people waste energy on other things too, such is unavoidable in grist jeevan.
Sex can also have a spiritual component.
Fight the demon of kaam by having each other as on outlet in the sanctity of marriage. Different Sangat play different roles. If you cannot have sex with your partner except for procreation, then again, why not just have kids out of wedlock and use other Sangat to help you fight kaam?
 
Lastly you seem to be making a huge assumption that every Sikh is reaching for Brahmgyaanihood, which if you look at reality, is never gonna happen.
 

Agreed 100%

Lot of people, couples after some level of awakening reports decrease in sexual activity naturally as they are more connected with inner subject/seer/consciousness/atma/chaitna than outside object, but at the same time they also mention they live their life in harmony and in undivided way-everything is expression of life and consciousness (than personal ego I-claiming ownership) which means they are not divided within themselves with dilemma or doubts.

Yeah I'm not denying that bro. I even said the same thing in the asexuality thread. But to say it's a outright sin even in marriage, and that it's banned unless for procreation is kattarvaadi at it's finest, and not to mention has no basis.
This isn't Christian Victorian England. No need to be frigid and ashamed of sex.

Do you even know what asexual means? Parmaatma and aatma are genderless. The whole soul-bride analogy is used to make it easier for us to understand. It's a metaphor. It has nothing to do with an persons gender or sexual orientation in this life.
I think this is a brilliant question. And it's actually crossed my mind before, well sort of, I thought about what if one became asexual through Sikhi. I think for some people Sikhi definitely has aspects of asexuality in it. It all really comes down to an individuals perspective though. If you look at one extreme then you could almost ask yourself "how can one be Sikh and not an asexual?". I say this because if you were to give someone the gist of some Sikh theology: kill the five thieves, no difference between dukh sukh/pain & pleasure, no attachment, constant anand, see the jot in every being, merge with Vaheguru - I think asexuality would naturally be an effect of all this. Kind of difficult to explain, but I hope you see it from the same sort of angle. Of course, this would only apply if you managed to reach this stage. The only dilemma I see here, is if this was a married couple; even if they were more than happy not having a physical relationship, they might still want kids (or should?). Albeit if you reached such a high level of spirtuality in the first place then I'm sure you'd have enough Kirpa on you for procreation.
Then we have the "normal" view, which is what most of us practise; having sex for love or pleasure is normal (within marriage before you attack me), control the five thieves 'cus you can't kill them unless you're Brahmgyani, anand comes only after effort and leaves after said effort, try to see the jot in every being but still may (extremely likely) have some unconscious bias, hope to merge with Vaheguru in this joon if not at least do ardaas that we've been good enough for Mukti overall.
So now, with the above, where would an asexual fit in?
I think a lot of the questions we need to ask simply relate to what would apply if the individuals asexuality is such that they cannot have kids by conventional means, if you catch my drift? I believe as Sikhs we should have children if we can, barring those who choose to practise Brahmacharya for various but valid reasons. Apart from that I personally believe an asexual can lead a regular life. There's plenty of options, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it per se. Then again I'm not a Gyani or a scientist.
Here are some random musings in no particular order for others to ponder over:
Grist jeevan and marriage is (heavily) promoted but not necessary.
What does the individual think about marriage compared with Sikhi's view on marriage? What is this individuals view on having children and how does it compare with Sikhi's view on having children?
In an ideal world an asexual would get married to another asexual, which in layman's terms, would be a mission to set up.
There's plenty of Sikhs who are voluntarily celibate, so an asexual could follow the same sort of path as them, no?
What if they don't want to be a "Saadh" but don't want to get married either? Would it be considered wrong to be biologically fit but not to put your biology to good work simply because you're not attracted to anyone or have no interest in sex in any shape or form?
What would medically acceptable Sikhiwise to get around some obstacles for the sake of procreation/having kids if there really is a complete lack of sexual desire ? Donors, for unmarried folks (is that even allowed?)? IVF for married folks? Viagra?
Might it set a trend in the wrong direction to have openly asexual Sikhs?
What would be some negative things an asexual Sikh might face?
Could an asexual be "sexual" some day? Would they want to? Should they?
Hope this helps! Please share your views!
 
I don't know what I'm gonna do vis-à-vis marriage and kids because I've got a feeling my matrimonial ad will say something like:
Bhamanvaadi Sikh Male seeks suitable Bhamanvaadi Sikh Female.
Not sure if I'll get many replies so If there are any Bhamanvaadi Sikh females out there please PM me. I will give you all relevant details to take to your astrologer.
Thanks.