DeNiro

Well explained Maha Singh and Das ji. Points noted. I am also a believer that given the right jugti can help a seeker immensely, like a shortcut, which can also save loads of effort of trying to walk the path alone. First the problem is obtaining the jugtis as they are closely regarded secrets and then if you do happen to find some out, then when to adopt which one. The issue that can arise is that one might not appreciate the stage one has reached because it came easily and not after many years of hard effort and the prem is somewhat lacking.

I just finished reading this book. It's a real eye opener for those who hear anhad sounds. A guy from the west learned the techniques and then reveals some of the them that the saints of the east keep so close to their chests and only impart to devout, deserving students. There was loads of unnecessary padding to beef up the book, and the key points probably could have been summed up in a few pages. It was such a refreshing, insightful read that I read the whole book in one day.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Ringing-Sound-Introduction-Current/dp/0966535804

A clear/still mind is a prerequisite for the next step....

You hear the same message of stilling the thoughts down to nothing from loads of bhagti related sources. In the book one is clearly advised to listen to a mantra to help still the thoughts which will eventually lead you to hear the anhad sounds if you don't already hear them. When they are present then they become the mantra which you focus on. Listen to these sounds initially until they become more and more finer and clearer. When your comfortable and ready with these sounds then one has to step into them so to speak for the actual journey to begin with your dhyan at a particular point. When I read that the pangti "nanak naam jahaz hai jo charhe so utre paar" came to mind.

I will post more relevant snippets of information soon.

Spot on veerji !
I'm glad you mentioned that as it went in like a little wake up call.
Just get to that deep state and then let it become completely effortless. At this stage, one just goes with the flow like waves in the ocean. Just stay in the God ocean, but let him guide the direction of the waves.

You guys have just inspired and reminded me to go back and start doing just this.
It takes a little effort at first to steady and focus, but once you are deep enough, everything can just flow without any effort whatsoever.
I remember that I was doing this a while back and I wouldn't pay attention to think what was going on in the sense that I would actually only think about it and realise after I came out of meditation.
It was such that i probably didn't even notice that anhad shabad were happening and where they were coming from for some while.

Harsharan ji mentioned that we can learn to die in the meditation or shabad by just letting go completely, and on some occasions, I kind of end up doing just this.
I make the effort to initially settle and tune in and then when I can hear the shabad resonating and feel my heart with rom rom, -I know that I am at that deeper state. At this stage, to just let go completely and try go with the flow seems like the most natural thing to do sometimes.
I often get the inclination to do this complete surrender of mind when I may wake up some unplanned time in the early hours and where i haven't thought about what time it is and how long I should do.

I suppose that we should all just find our own comfort zones of sehaj that are meant for us at any particular time. We know that we won't all climb the same steps, but what matters more is that we continue to climb and be careful of slipping or falling.
Many of us including me, get the impression that the stages of avastha have to be attained in some conditioned order. We feel that working up the spiritual path has to be done one after the other such that one can feel stuck if they get a hint that no progress is being made.
(I have been in this scenario many times!)
But,...... Have to REMEMBER- that progress can't actually be assigned to devotion. Devotion is about submitting and surrendering and can't be measured by self.-ONLY HE can judge and measure.So how can we really feel if we are progressing or not ?
And then, because we can get our heads wrapped around ''oh, we must hear this...or smell this... or see this.....'' we forget about what 'HIS GRACE" actually means.- Again, we put our selves into the play of kal, maya and self haumai.

I was at a simran camp a few weeks ago and was very lucky to be amongst some very advanced abyassee gurmukhs.

I noticed that at the camp, my rom rom was spontaneously getting active when the sangat was doing jap !
At first, I thought it was just coincidence that this was happening, but it would sync automatically every time, whatever the pace or speed of jap was ?
I had to keep convincing myself that it was just my imagination .

A very respected and high avastha gurmukh confirmed that this was one of the nishanees that rom rom is parpakh and getting pargat !
I was told that experiencing jap as if it's electrifying and pulsating throughout your body is rom rom manifesting and that I must continue to do more and more simran.


I have since picked up a few more pointers with regards to rom rom-

1) rom rom is the beginning of para bani, where we stimulate and try invoke automatic jap by starting simran at the navel.

2) I believe Sant Baba Isher Singh ji mentions this technique as well for beginning rom rom in one of his audios.

3) Your SURAT and SHABAD both begin to mold together and this results in rom rom and para bani getting stronger and stronger.

4) Eventually, (especially when head is uncovered), one can feel a very cool soothing sensation running from top of head throughout the body.... this is the amrit getting manifest throughout the body and in gurbani......

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਧਾਰ ਗਗਨਿ ਦਸ ਦੁਆਰਿ ॥
Amriṯ ḏẖār gagan ḏas ḏu▫ār.
From the Sky of the Tenth Gate, the Ambrosial Nectar trickles down

5) Also later on, ....One can feel the waheguru jap coming from nearly everything and most objects around them.


6) rom rom and the merging of Shabad with Surat, can also stimulate and let the sushmana flow fully towards the agya chakra (slightly above eye brow mid-point). This results in many awakening symptoms of agya chakra, further intuition and a strong bond of love starts to form from this inner awareness.
Swami j and yoga sutras mention that this higher affinity for the inner awareness is helpful in setting the stage for deeper experiences of sunn and samadhi.

Please don't take this as official advice,.... it's just what I understand with regards to my knowledge, time and experience..


I do have a little understanding of what's going on, but your own experiences will confirm in time.
The OBE you describe, is kind of like your soul trying to go out and look for naam, but this naam has to come in the consciousness, fro what I comprehend.

It is a little complicated, but in simple terms I would say that.....
We can all experience the other dimensions, realms,...spiritual worlds...or whatever you want to call them, by 2 methods- from what I gather.

1st method -is the astral/soul/atma....or OBE like you mention...
2nd method- is by raising and expanding your Consciousness..... using mind focus on shabad.

Expansion and elevation of consciousness is by self effort and not usually a gift you can be born with.
Naam simran will help you achieve this and write your lekha.

When you elevate your consciousness, then you can be experiencing realms anywhere in the universe all at once(since there is no time!)...Without having to leave or separate from your body.

This is the kind of idea of becoming jivan mukht and experiencing sachkhand whilst alive.

I have no idea if the 1st method alone can get you towards satguru, but I have been advised to stay focused on the 2nd method in order to experience waheguru, whilst remaining intact in your body.
In my opinion this 2nd method is gurmat providing you stay absorbed in the gur-shabad in the practice of naam simran.

NOTE- I find that the term astral travel is used quite loosely.
Astral bodies can move in the lower and darker realms, which we have to be careful of.
We are not interested in soul travel alone (and that can be possible!), but we need to go via the 2nd method of consciousness elevation and expansion.


If your still not sure what I mean, then you can pm and i can try explain in more depth.
But I know you can't go wrong if you stick with Gurshabad and simran.

I have been trying rom rom practice on most days and some days it all just falls in place a lot easier, whereas on others it may be a little difficult to just get that steadiness.
However, speaking for myself, I have noticed that on days where it may not be so fluid , then usually my breathing is unbalanced.
I don't always check or try and balance breath before hand, but I have never had days where there may be some difficulty and the breath is balanced as well !
So, this is like a little personal conclusion and reminder for me to keep a check on breath balance.

On the other hand, balanced breath does NOT always mean success, because there have been many times when all is checked fine but I still can't maintain the steady flow for more than a few minutes, despite the breath being balanced.


What has really been an eye opener for me is the fact that I've tried rom rom throughout the day when I may be out and about, and it does seem to work !
On a few occasions, I've been in a busy shopping mall, train station..etc...and then just sat down for some 5 minutes and I will try see if I can do it whilst sat still, AND I usually can !
This really surprised me at first because of all the constant noise going on around me, but I found that if I tried to feel my navel area pulse, then automatically I go 'within' and immediately the internal jap starts.


Another thing that I've noticed is that I can feel the rom rom and the pulse within my fingertips when I put my dhian there. This first got my attention in yoga when we do the hand gian-mudra and press 1st finger with thumb whilst sitting in easy pose. At the time I noticed and felt the nadis on those fingertips and they were both in the same 'waheguru....wahegururu....waheguru....' mode.
Whenever i put my dhian on the fingertips now, no matter where or what I'm doing, I can mostly tune in to do internal jap with ease.

I'm really not sure if I've just become more self aware or something else is happening like some crazy mind games ?
The only thing that worried me slightly was that if i've become more self aware and highly sensitive to body sensations, then I'm a little frightened to be encountering pain of any sort, because a small tiny pain trigger may be much more heightened and painful to me than it actually is !!

I’m going to have a go explaining my interpretation of Rom Rom Simran. How to get started. This is just one method but with some gurmukhs it can mianifest spontaneously.
It's mentioned quite often in the order of saas graas, saas saas and then rom rom, but very rarely does any mahapursh give any details about it.
I get that impression because it is a very practical technique that involves sukham sareer compared to physical, and I assume that most teachers/mahapursh/sant show and demonstrate to an abyhasee only after he is adept in saas graas and saas saas.
It almost seems as it is kept hush hush and some sant/mahapursh don't reveal to student until x-amount of years have been spent doing the other vidhis/jugtees.
I found that I could get a little information from one place and another little idea from another,,,,, so basically, my interpretation is from gathering the little bits and putting them together from varying sources.
I must stress that as far as I understand it, one should be doing this only when they know how to maintain or get very close to a steadiness and when they are able to get breath balanced (ie,, via sukhmana channel)
Primarily,one has to do more abyhaas to get the nadhis cleansed and stimulated, and when this happens- the sukham sareer properties start coming into play.
I won't go into the vidhies of breath balancing or dhyian control for now,but will give you my understanding and how I've been doing the rom rom simran.
ROM ROM SIMRAN
This is pasanti bhani jap- which is mental,silent and completely from the sukham Mind.
and it is antar ghat (completely internal)
We are using sukham ears and sukham mouth to jap. (ie,,,sukham gyan and karam indries)
It is ALL sukham compared to the Physical breathing manoeuvres/inhalations/tongue use....etc.. in Saas graas & Saas saas
However, there is the beginning aspect of trying to feel the pulse or heartbeat, that is classed as physical. But once you master this, then it all becomes sukham.
A little point I would like to make is about some confusion for matching breathing with heartbeat - which can no doubt lead to hyperventilation
I really don't think that you should match your breath to heartbeat- since this is ALL sukham. If we start matching physical breath then we are going towards sargun/physical behaviour and hindering progress into sukham.
The way I see it is-
With simran we progress through the jugtees and techniques by gradually making our surti, dhyian and actions, to move from Sargun to Nirgun. So, if our surti can come out and away from the sargun body, then we move away from the grasps of kaal and his maya dominance. Therefore, we need to make surti/dhyian move from Sargun to Nirgun.
(remember- before creation there was just the nirgun shabad and all sargun manifested later. It makes sense to go back home in that reverse order!)
As for the rapid breathing technique that can lead to hyperventilation and hypoxia, I am aware that some keertan sangats practice this, but this is not to be confused with heartbeat & rom rom jugtee, or any other jugtee for that matter.
Hypoxia or oxygen deprivation from rapid hyperventilation can give someone a good feeling of being lightheaded. I have heard how some of these kirtan sangats(akj) claim to have feelings of divine anand from their fast paced kirtan samagams, but this is nothing much different than the 2 minute high that party students get with nitric 'poppers', because of same oxygen starvation effects.
Technique/method
1) 1st quieten and get that steady state where breath is balanced.
2) Try and feel your heart beat by putting the focus into that area
3) If this is difficult, then it may help if-
-a) you hold your breath for a few seconds and then try to locate/listen.
-b) Or you can instead ,try to feel your pulse on the wrist.
4) Once you find the beat and can follow it's beating rhythm, then putting some more dhyian there should make it more louder and prominent.
5) the anhad naad/dhun should also get more prominent if you have it present.
-I usually find that they both get more enhanced at the same time
6) Now, that the heart beating is clear and can be followed, you incorporate and match the gurmantar along with it to begin rom rom.
-this itself can be done in 2 ways
a) you should be able to identify an ''up'' beat and a ''down'' beat.
...then coincide the Wahe-with-Up, and the Guru-with-Down.
OR..
b) when the beat is too fast to differentiate the up/down, then you can match the whole gurmantar with this faster beat. For eg..you are saying waheguru,waheguru,waheguru, without any pause or breaks in wahe-and-guru.
With practice, you should eventually be able to locate the heartbeat without touching or feeling any pulse.
If you HOLD the breath for a few seconds, then this also make it easier to sense.
NEXT, the goal is to put the focus on navel, because when focusing at navel, one can be steady in the sukhmanna channel and trying to rise upwards.
The sukhmanna channel runs directly from navel area towards the nijh ghar. (in a straight line along the path of chakras)
Before we are born and in the womb, this connection is fully active and intune with waheguru. When the umbilical cord is cut and the first birth breath is taken, that's when the veil layers of maya world start their course. You could also say that the knot to maya is tied after cord is cut/breath is taken in atmosphere.
 
ਮਨ ਰੇ ਪਵਨ ਦ੍ਰਿੜ ਸੁਖਮਨ ਨਾਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Man re pavan ḏariṛ sukẖman nārī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
O mind, hold your breath steady within the central channel of the Sushmanaa. ||1||Pause||
It's important to get the steady breath balance before you start rom rom.
This steadiness and control comes when there are no thoughts.
If any thoughts arise, then the breath balancing goes into either side of Ida or Pingala.
That’s why it is called the turbulent ocean (bhavsagar) because we rock from side to side (left to right), or from ida to pingala whilst trying to travel up the nadis and trying to maintain the steadiness in sukhmana throughout.
This 2nd stage of rom rom is to focus around navel area and feel the pulse there which is much more sukham.
The focus, I believe is not directly at the belly button, but you feel the pulse and rom rom vibration just below it and deeper inside.
It is the area called the DHARAN.- which is about 1 inch below and 1 inch inwards.
I often find it a little easier to locate this subtle area compared to the heartbeat sometimes. With practice it should become easier and almost instant.
The vibrations that I feel there can be In and Out and so I use the mental Wahe-in and Guru-out,
OR sometimes they may be going slightly up/down at an angle rather than in/out, but I still use the same method and have noticed that the rate of rom rom vibration is practically the same.
All the jap is done in complete sukham from the mind, and it can help if you do the internal, mental chant with the inner voice being raised with some power behind it. (as if your enforcing your internal chant)
The last check I usually make is to be sure that I am breathing slowly and normally, and not accidentally incorporating the breath into the jap rhythm-which can be very easily done (and then you can end up with the hyperventilating issue explained above). Again, with practice, this will become instant and second nature.
This practice takes you on a whole new quest with both mystical and spiritual experiences, that are individual and personally tailored to each of us. You will know that they can't be discussed openly.
I can seriously understand why it is of great importance to have the right sangat and experienced gurmukh/mahapursh/sant guidance/advisor to assist you along the encounters at this stage. This is probably the reason to why it has the "hush hush'' factor and doesn't get mentioned too often.
Sadly, I'm not in the company of any mahapursh and at certain times I have felt the desperate need to get questions answered.
So far, I seemed to have managed using gurbani, certain info sources, practice and of course, Waheguru's blessings.
 
Using the above practice method should eventually make Rom Rom fully manifest/pargat. There are a few nishanees that can help determine if it's pargat in full or not, but I won't go into those here.
 
 

Wahguru ji ki fateh
I couldn't help but feel your situation because I know what it's like. I can only tell you what I know from the way I've handled things. Although its a stage of my life that I'm extremely ashamed of, I'm aware of the darkness and difficulties. 
I remember how I'd regret most mornings and promise to not do it again. Sadly, just past afternoon, when i'd be more or less fully sober, I'd fall into a sudden slump of depression. Worried about how I would make it through to the night, I'd be craving and planning my evening liquor session. The anxiety, frustration, and just the plain fear of being sober. Sometimes, it was as if I felt naked without any drink and needed it to cover myself up and be presentable.  My mind would be working full speed to convince me that tonight it would be okay just this once to get rat-assed again.  I went up and down like a yo-yo many times.  Problem was that I was looking to fill this hole that everyone looks for. As manukhs, we tend to fill the hole with 5 vices. When I went to AA meetings and was working on step plans, I found myself spending more time at casinos. Although I wasn't drinking, I was frequenting other naughty places as well as squandering thousands in casinos.  Now, after 20 years, I realize that the "hole" I was looking for was "naam" and because I never found any naam, I just went from drinking on to other vices.  There's people out there addicted to gossip, addicted to tv, addicted to kaam, addicted to violence, addicted to moh of possessions, addicted to moh of relations, lobh of money, lobh of more square feet to own..and so on.  Either way, theire lives get consumed by panj doots unless they become Guru ka sikh and start practicing as guru ka sikh.
What did I do?
- Eventually, I plucked up the courage to start  10,000 mool mantar over 10 days. 1000 /day. This was advised by local gyani and I just took his word for it. He said do it 10 days, no khaana peena, just simple daal roti. Wake at 4am, bathe shower whilst doing Waheguru jap, then sit down cross-legged and do 1000 malas preferably with an extra mala of 108 at the end.  Then wait a few days and start again on Sunday. So it went from Sunday to  Sunday (8 days inclusive) plus Monday and Tuesday week after (10 days), then a break on wed, thu, fri and Saturday to start again on Sunday.  Gyanee told me to go back after a month and see him. When I went back the first time,  the first thing he enquired was whether I had fallen off the wagon and hit the bottle after first 10 days.   But I hadn't, the vegetarian rehat and maintaining of purity on the outside did somehow cleanse my dirty mann from the inside. After 2 months, I changed my life around and started to focus on nitnem and doing simran with techniques my dad had taught me. I've never consumed any liquor since or even had any urges. After all, it was the urges that were eating me in those days.
I strongly suggest you follow official advice as mentioned by soulfinder veer. I honestly believe the 5 vice salok will be beneficial. I explained before how I found myself switching from one vice to another after I started AA. I truly believe that it's our human nature and the 5 dhoots power to fool us this way.Doing the salok in addition is a vey good idea.   In the end, it's not just about getting off the liquor, it's about a whole new transformation into a newer you.  I remember that during  the second mool mantar japs I found myself with lots of physical energy and started powerlifting and pumping weights that I didn't think were possible for me. Doing this will also be beneficial for you if you start with small weights and combo reps.
 
 

Wahguru ji ki fateh
I couldn't help but feel your situation because I know what it's like. I can only tell you what I know from the way I've handled things. Although its a stage of my life that I'm extremely ashamed of, I'm aware of the darkness and difficulties. 
I remember how I'd regret most mornings and promise to not do it again. Sadly, just past afternoon, when i'd be more or less fully sober, I'd fall into a sudden slump of depression. Worried about how I would make it through to the night, I'd be craving and planning my evening liquor session. The anxiety, frustration, and just the plain fear of being sober. Sometimes, it was as if I felt naked without any drink and needed it to cover myself up and be presentable.  My mind would be working full speed to convince me that tonight it would be okay just this once to get rat-assed again.  I went up and down like a yo-yo many times.  Problem was that I was looking to fill this hole that everyone looks for. As manukhs, we tend to fill the hole with 5 vices. When I went to AA meetings and was working on step plans, I found myself spending more time at casinos. Although I wasn't drinking, I was frequenting other naughty places as well as squandering thousands in casinos.  Now, after 20 years, I realize that the "hole" I was looking for was "naam" and because I never found any naam, I just went from drinking on to other vices.  There's people out there addicted to gossip, addicted to tv, addicted to kaam, addicted to violence, addicted to moh of possessions, addicted to moh of relations, lobh of money, lobh of more square feet to own..and so on.  Either way, theire lives get consumed by panj doots unless they become Guru ka sikh and start practicing as guru ka sikh.
What did I do?
- Eventually, I plucked up the courage to start  10,000 mool mantar over 10 days. 1000 /day. This was advised by local gyani and I just took his word for it. He said do it 10 days, no khaana peena, just simple daal roti. Wake at 4am, bathe shower whilst doing Waheguru jap, then sit down cross-legged and do 1000 malas preferably with an extra mala of 108 at the end.  Then wait a few days and start again on Sunday. So it went from Sunday to  Sunday (8 days inclusive) plus Monday and Tuesday week after (10 days), then a break on wed, thu, fri and Saturday to start again on Sunday.  Gyanee told me to go back after a month and see him. When I went back the first time,  the first thing he enquired was whether I had fallen off the wagon and hit the bottle after first 10 days.   But I hadn't, the vegetarian rehat and maintaining of purity on the outside did somehow cleanse my dirty mann from the inside. After 2 months, I changed my life around and started to focus on nitnem and doing simran with techniques my dad had taught me. I've never consumed any liquor since or even had any urges. After all, it was the urges that were eating me in those days.
I strongly suggest you follow official advice as mentioned by soulfinder veer. I honestly believe the 5 vice salok will be beneficial. I explained before how I found myself switching from one vice to another after I started AA. I truly believe that it's our human nature and the 5 dhoots power to fool us this way.Doing the salok in addition is a vey good idea.   In the end, it's not just about getting off the liquor, it's about a whole new transformation into a newer you.  I remember that during  the second mool mantar japs I found myself with lots of physical energy and started powerlifting and pumping weights that I didn't think were possible for me. Doing this will also be beneficial for you if you start with small weights and combo reps.
 
 

Wahguru ji ki fateh
I couldn't help but feel your situation because I know what it's like. I can only tell you what I know from the way I've handled things. Although its a stage of my life that I'm extremely ashamed of, I'm aware of the darkness and difficulties. 
I remember how I'd regret most mornings and promise to not do it again. Sadly, just past afternoon, when i'd be more or less fully sober, I'd fall into a sudden slump of depression. Worried about how I would make it through to the night, I'd be craving and planning my evening liquor session. The anxiety, frustration, and just the plain fear of being sober. Sometimes, it was as if I felt naked without any drink and needed it to cover myself up and be presentable.  My mind would be working full speed to convince me that tonight it would be okay just this once to get rat-assed again.  I went up and down like a yo-yo many times.  Problem was that I was looking to fill this hole that everyone looks for. As manukhs, we tend to fill the hole with 5 vices. When I went to AA meetings and was working on step plans, I found myself spending more time at casinos. Although I wasn't drinking, I was frequenting other naughty places as well as squandering thousands in casinos.  Now, after 20 years, I realize that the "hole" I was looking for was "naam" and because I never found any naam, I just went from drinking on to other vices.  There's people out there addicted to gossip, addicted to tv, addicted to kaam, addicted to violence, addicted to moh of possessions, addicted to moh of relations, lobh of money, lobh of more square feet to own..and so on.  Either way, theire lives get consumed by panj doots unless they become Guru ka sikh and start practicing as guru ka sikh.
What did I do?
- Eventually, I plucked up the courage to start  10,000 mool mantar over 10 days. 1000 /day. This was advised by local gyani and I just took his word for it. He said do it 10 days, no khaana peena, just simple daal roti. Wake at 4am, bathe shower whilst doing Waheguru jap, then sit down cross-legged and do 1000 malas preferably with an extra mala of 108 at the end.  Then wait a few days and start again on Sunday. So it went from Sunday to  Sunday (8 days inclusive) plus Monday and Tuesday week after (10 days), then a break on wed, thu, fri and Saturday to start again on Sunday.  Gyanee told me to go back after a month and see him. When I went back the first time,  the first thing he enquired was whether I had fallen off the wagon and hit the bottle after first 10 days.   But I hadn't, the vegetarian rehat and maintaining of purity on the outside did somehow cleanse my dirty mann from the inside. After 2 months, I changed my life around and started to focus on nitnem and doing simran with techniques my dad had taught me. I've never consumed any liquor since or even had any urges. After all, it was the urges that were eating me in those days.
I strongly suggest you follow official advice as mentioned by soulfinder veer. I honestly believe the 5 vice salok will be beneficial. I explained before how I found myself switching from one vice to another after I started AA. I truly believe that it's our human nature and the 5 dhoots power to fool us this way.Doing the salok in addition is a vey good idea.   In the end, it's not just about getting off the liquor, it's about a whole new transformation into a newer you.  I remember that during  the second mool mantar japs I found myself with lots of physical energy and started powerlifting and pumping weights that I didn't think were possible for me. Doing this will also be beneficial for you if you start with small weights and combo reps.
 
 

Wohhh,   you're feeling it for sure.  The order of changes sounds decent but  you should have gotten absorbed in the first shabad sound when it were getting loud..  The crashing airplane like and screeching shouldn't have distracted you away from the loud shabad. Try and aim to drown in the shabad and leave all else behind.   Say, you are  watching TV and absorbed into something so deeply. Your phone is nearby and it starts ringing.   The power of absorption between you and the TV is so high that you may hear  the phone ringing in background, but it's not enough to divert your attention from the TV. ,   The shabad has to be like the TV. and all other thunder like experiences have to be in the background.
The roller coater, jet like that you described; ….was that an internal kinetic energy like  feel or was it heard. What I mean is, was it a motion like energy inside or was it sound vibration only?
 

Wohhh,   you're feeling it for sure.  The order of changes sounds decent but  you should have gotten absorbed in the first shabad sound when it were getting loud..  The crashing airplane like and screeching shouldn't have distracted you away from the loud shabad. Try and aim to drown in the shabad and leave all else behind.   Say, you are  watching TV and absorbed into something so deeply. Your phone is nearby and it starts ringing.   The power of absorption between you and the TV is so high that you may hear  the phone ringing in background, but it's not enough to divert your attention from the TV. ,   The shabad has to be like the TV. and all other thunder like experiences have to be in the background.
The roller coater, jet like that you described; ….was that an internal kinetic energy like  feel or was it heard. What I mean is, was it a motion like energy inside or was it sound vibration only?
 

Wohhh,   you're feeling it for sure.  The order of changes sounds decent but  you should have gotten absorbed in the first shabad sound when it were getting loud..  The crashing airplane like and screeching shouldn't have distracted you away from the loud shabad. Try and aim to drown in the shabad and leave all else behind.   Say, you are  watching TV and absorbed into something so deeply. Your phone is nearby and it starts ringing.   The power of absorption between you and the TV is so high that you may hear  the phone ringing in background, but it's not enough to divert your attention from the TV. ,   The shabad has to be like the TV. and all other thunder like experiences have to be in the background.
The roller coater, jet like that you described; ….was that an internal kinetic energy like  feel or was it heard. What I mean is, was it a motion like energy inside or was it sound vibration only?
 

I have family in the same area that the lady was from. The family I visited a couple of years ago told me about the incidence and another one of their cousins knew this family quite well from the impression they gave.
Whether I believe in the lady's story isn't going to make a difference for anything.   Anyone who side with the lady, automatically becomes gyani ji's enemy and vice versa.  
Gurbani is very clear that we shouldn't judge "anyone" and neither should we take sides.  I can honestly say that I have problems judging my own actions. I can never be a true judge
Nānak parkẖe āp ka▫o ṯā pārakẖ jāṇ.
O Nanak, if someone judges himself, only then is he known as a real judge.
 
I've explained what I think of gyani ji earlier.  I'm no fan, but I've already taken and learned what I can from his kathas. 
The first question about believing the lady would be "is she lying"  Well, from the character impressions I got; it was hard to imagine this.  and no, I hadn't heard anyone mention marital problems at the time.  No idea where that came from.  I cannot mention the surname of the family or their business since I don't have the right or permission to do so.
 
 

Avoid these at all costs, like I said earlier.   It's amazing how many bibian in my own family would be up and about in time for their tv drama show but would give nitnem a lower priority. I stayed with one auntie here in Queens and couldn't help disappointment when I noticed her rushing through nitnem to finish in time for tv drama. 
My view is slightly different. I don't  feel English movies affecting me too negatively. 'I'm okay watching them but I'm very selective and choosy with what to watch. Love to watch anything based on true story. Probably sit through a couple a week, but I'm able to switch off and move attention to nitnem or bhagti after 15-20 minutes and a hot drink. 

Avoid these at all costs, like I said earlier.   It's amazing how many bibian in my own family would be up and about in time for their tv drama show but would give nitnem a lower priority. I stayed with one auntie here in Queens and couldn't help disappointment when I noticed her rushing through nitnem to finish in time for tv drama. 
My view is slightly different. I don't  feel English movies affecting me too negatively. 'I'm okay watching them but I'm very selective and choosy with what to watch. Love to watch anything based on true story. Probably sit through a couple a week, but I'm able to switch off and move attention to nitnem or bhagti after 15-20 minutes and a hot drink. 

Guru ji have used the color red in two different scenarios
1) To signify the color of lover, feelings of a Bhagat when he is coming close to Union with His Husband Lord. There are countless shabad regarding this. 
Man tham Rathaa Laal hoaa rasanaa rathhe gunn saar  ang 787 2) , and also to describe the Maya.  
Sooha Rang Vikar Hai Kanth N Paaeiaa Jaae ||  Page 786  
So really the interpretation of color red depends on avastha of jeev, so either passion for Maya or passion for Lord.
All important things in life are red, like our blood. 
 

There are a couple of different stages when "red" is experienced. Gurbani has the answers and an abyasee can interpret these for themselves according to levels of proficiency.    In short, I know there may be encounters with colors earlier on in the game ,  and many hopefuls have got lost at these stages.  Reason why teachers instruct students to NOT look for colors.   I shouldn't be saying too much here since I may face some negative repercussions.    Nevertheless,  seeing as you all know me as Goodfella DeNiro ……….I can add #  If you've seen the clarity of your mind's jot and the prakash of waheguru around you, then once you've crossed the second bhavsagar(after reaching naam), the true color can  reveal itself from your own colorless, but illuminated jot...  
Dear Angie,  I've no idea why you made the above comment with reference to my question below. I was asking if any of the pacharaks mentioned the spiritual significance of RED?     I had only skipped through and listened to a few snippets for the reasons I mentioned. 
 
 
Problem is there are two sides to the coin here. The topic of red color spiritually has nothing to do with what color you physically wear.  The spiritual aspects are the other side of the coin to the physical aspects.  When you see Red in maya, then it is NOT the same as experiencing the love of red in turiya avastha.
It appears to me, the arguments some people are having are a waste of time because there are two different matters that can't be correlated.  
I have no idea whether wearing red is good or bad, and have no right speculating that some rehatnama saying so, maybe wrong.  If your rehatnama says so, then stick to it. Stay away from red. Respect the rules. Learn to discipline yourself.   Red is the heaviest color in maya. It's the most vibrant color coming from white light.  I don't see anything wrong with disciplining yourself to stay away from something in maya. End result will make Mind stronger and that's what the game is all about. 
 Gurbani doesn't say whether to wear red or not. One cannot equate the spiritual significance of color red to wearing red clothes.  Gurbani talks about Red color on a totally different level.  When you start associating it in maya, then it's a whole new ball game.
There are many shabads that mention color red, but I can't recall one stating anything about wearing red or not to wear. If someone has interpreted it in that sense, well good luck to them.  What do I care anyway?   as De Niro famously says " I'm bound for the promised land" 
 
 
 
 

ha ha
The Truth itself is 'supernatural' and 'mystical'
Truth is not maya.
Behind the veil of maya is the truth. 
 
Do only brahman know what's behind veil of maya?  Maybe only brahman knows the supernatural and mystical.
I don't know anything about brahmans, so not speaking against them. Don't know much about  taksal, nanaksar, akj,  so i'd be a fool to speak against them. I learned a little more about naamdharees on another thread, so I can assume they don't know who my guru is. They're not in my boat and my foot's not in theirs. 
Tell me more on Alif Laila, because I don't know anything about it.  If you do, i'll tell you more about Adam and Eve an also my favorite "gingerbread" man story.
 

ha ha
The Truth itself is 'supernatural' and 'mystical'
Truth is not maya.
Behind the veil of maya is the truth. 
 
Do only brahman know what's behind veil of maya?  Maybe only brahman knows the supernatural and mystical.
I don't know anything about brahmans, so not speaking against them. Don't know much about  taksal, nanaksar, akj,  so i'd be a fool to speak against them. I learned a little more about naamdharees on another thread, so I can assume they don't know who my guru is. They're not in my boat and my foot's not in theirs. 
Tell me more on Alif Laila, because I don't know anything about it.  If you do, i'll tell you more about Adam and Eve an also my favorite "gingerbread" man story.
 

Totally get you there. 
I would never discuss with anyone in person, unless they are more advanced.  I've learnt from my fair share of repercussions.  On that note, I'd probably say a wee bit more on here because you only know me as DeNiro.  But I'm still going to practice restraint and keep energies away from nastiks and sakats.

Good man.
You remind me of myself when I was about 23/24 yrs age.  Doing the banis was the ignition that got me climbing. I'd say it  lay the foundations that gave further discipline and dedication.  I maximized the hours and began cutting off from maya with time.   This was preliminary for getting all amped and psyched when I began serious years of bhagti.
 

Totally get you there. 
I would never discuss with anyone in person, unless they are more advanced.  I've learnt from my fair share of repercussions.  On that note, I'd probably say a wee bit more on here because you only know me as DeNiro.  But I'm still going to practice restraint and keep energies away from nastiks and sakats.

Good man.
You remind me of myself when I was about 23/24 yrs age.  Doing the banis was the ignition that got me climbing. I'd say it  lay the foundations that gave further discipline and dedication.  I maximized the hours and began cutting off from maya with time.   This was preliminary for getting all amped and psyched when I began serious years of bhagti.
 

I get you. A few of my breakthroughs happened in the company of likeminded sangat.  
Have you or anyone else on here experienced other sangat?  as in the mind joining sangat on other planes?

Totally get you there. 
I would never discuss with anyone in person, unless they are more advanced.  I've learnt from my fair share of repercussions.  On that note, I'd probably say a wee bit more on here because you only know me as DeNiro.  But I'm still going to practice restraint and keep energies away from nastiks and sakats.