SunnySingh

Well, the only explanation for me according to the definition beside the word "Raag" above, I think, it means not to limit our love to a certain number of things, such as relations, properties, wealth  and so on, but to let it flow  in a wider range, or call it universal, covering all of His creation, for in all does He reside.
Our limited extension of love, makes us bound by "moh", which in the end is also a reason for our sufferings.
Does not the Bani say: Kis naal keejay dostee sabh jag chalan haar. 
Our attachment (love with limitations)with the temporary and perishable, keeps us prisoners in the mayavee creation.
But that same love, if directed to the One eternal and changeless Truth Waheguru, will unfold His same virtues in us, such as grace, mercy towards all without any reservations or distinctions, and will be the cause to be receptive to His kirpa, and thus be drawn to His Lotus feet for once and ever.
 

Brother I do not want to dissapoint you, but we have to understand that spirituality has to be done within the mind, if only we want to go beyond the spheres of matter and mind.
The purpose of real bhakti as suggested by Guru Jee, is to loose oneself into it, for if any counting is done with the body/mind, means that we are much with the body, and the body or mind is a barrier in our spiritual path within, which can only be overcomed by submitting oneself completely in the jaap of His Naam.
Then too, when He has given us so much without any limits... we make big countings and tell Him, here you have this much from me....
Let us ask ourselves, could this be correct?
Can ever a child repày anyhow his father´s/mother´s selfless love for him even before being born? Does ever a parent want his childs earnings?
Nope, they do not even look at that. For what they only want is, that their child hugs them closely and tightly . This much is what they want.
Now, if the child shows them a petty handful of cents/pennies from a distance, and says here are these  for you and goes away, in which way has that child make his parents happy or make them feel being loved? 
For that is what we do with our huge countings, we are just waiting to finish the countings and get up as soon as possible and go away.
So sad, so pitiful.
If our countings were the real bhakti, we would surely have derived some"rus" from it, and not wanting to get up, for when we merge into His sacred Name, we taste that Amrit which wants to make us keep on going with that devotion, and not wanting to get up.
That is a sign of our devotion being accepted at His darbar, and in return by His grace we taste that Amrit within us. 
It is not the time, the quantity what He wants from us, it is the quality of our prem, of our pyaar, what He looks/expects  from us.
You know what, when we merge into His jaap, it is like going towards Him and hugging Him, for only then,  I, me, mine, do not exist, only He and our jeev atma exist, without any distances or barrirers.
This is the "prem" He expects from us, and this is the quality of prem which Gurbani refers as "Jin prem kiyo, tinhee Prabh paayo".
In this type of prem, the lover ceases to exist, and only the Beloved(Waheguru) exists. 
In true love, only the beloved exists, for in that type or quality of love, we get merged into it, and directly  reach the Beloved´s heart.
 
 

Just amazing.
Just WAHEGURU. 
🙏

Correct. But do watch the video from 17 minutes onwards. Mangal ji talks about this exact thing.
 
 
Bhuk Chuk Maaf 🙏🏿


 
 

The prerequisite to meet HIM is the LOVE which leads to Faith and Devotion. e.g If you're dedicated to someone, then regardless of what your brain says (mind) you always go with your feelings (heart/soul). Same way, when LOVE is present for God, it will overcome the chatter mind. In order to meet HIM, it doesn't matter if the person is poor/illiterate or rich/intelligent. Raja Janak was a King yet he was a Saint; on the other hand Bhagat Kabir was very poor and yet he was a Saint.
In-fact, when the person is financially poor it is very hard to concentrate on God because the majority of time and energy is spent on day-to-day activities for the sake of food for the family. On the other hand, when the person is financially rich it is also very hard to concentrate on God because the majority of time and energy is spent on maintaining the status or maintaining the money. One needs to learn satisfaction which will help him survive with whatever he has.
Eventually Mind which is the biggest hurdle (as it creates so many questions) and at the same time it is the best friend (if you know how to use it properly) which can help you to attain your aim.
At last, what we call Science today is basically the knowledge that came out of some person's internal consciousness. The real knowledge/science is INSIDE and everyone is supposed to research that INSIDE science, but we just follow someone else's knowledge and call it science.

I just came across this video. Look at the innocence of these ppl who are illiterate & Waheguru’s innocence and bholapan tooo
 
 
 

Spirituality is also a science.  if applied in the laboratory of our body within, we could get proofs.
No mere imagination nor talking has ever taken anyone anywhere, it is the practice/action, which makes the results possible.
Going to the point above in your thread, it can well be said worldly sciences have no reach to the subtler planes, thus is limited and ends when death takes place, anyhow why question the existence of God, if you can not prove even the existence of the soul. 
The believers and atheists have existed since ever, each one is a result of his/her past karmas which no one can modify or alterate.
 

Brother Sevak, 
Sorry to disgree with you, but the fact is that ultimate Truth is beyond the spheres of the mind, and whosoever dares to go beyond these spheres and bravely enter there where that Supreme Truth is in its original state, for sure meets Him.
There only love and faith are required, irrespective of being an illiterate or a "gyani," or belonging to a particular caste, creed, gender, color or age, for in His darbar only love and faith are the wings needed, by which the jeevatma can fly and reach there.

Hi seattlesingh, in my opinion it is not the speed which takes oneself within, but it is the concentration in the jaap, with the ingredients of sharda, determination, and intense love to have His darshan, which takes our attention within sooner.

Is the goal of Sikhs to have a large number? Or to have a large number of TRUE Sikhs...

Samarbir Jee,
to understand in the right perspective the question you are asking in this thread, I believe let us see what else is said in the following 2 verses to the one you have presented above, though since the start to the end, the whole bani should be read and understood, for it contains countless pearls, diamonds and  rubies of highest spiritual value..
Here it goes:
ਕਹਾ ਭਯੋ ਜੋ ਦੋਊ ਲੋਚਨ ਮੂੰਦ ਕੈ ਬੈਠਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਬਕ ਧਿਆਨ ਲਗਾਇਓ ॥
kahaa bhayo jo dhouoo lochan moo(n)dh kai baiTh rahio bak dhiaan lagaio ||
Of what use it is if one sits and meditates like a crane with his eyes closed.
 
ਨ੍ਹਾਤ ਫਿਰਿਓ ਲੀਏ ਸਾਤ ਸਮੁਦ੍ਰਨਿ ਲੋਕ ਗਯੋ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਗਵਾਇਓ ॥
nhaat firio le'ee saat samudhran lok gayo paralok gavaio ||
If he takes bath at holy places upto the seventh sea, he loses this world and also the next world.
 
ਬਾਸ ਕੀਓ ਬਿਖਿਆਨ ਸੋਂ ਬੈਠ ਕੈ ਐਸੇ ਹੀ ਐਸੇ ਸੁ ਬੈਸ ਬਿਤਾਇਓ ॥
baas keeo bikhiaan so(n) baiTh kai aaise hee aaise su bais bitaio ||
He spends his life in such performing evil actions and wastes his life in such pursuits.
 
* In these verses above, Guru Jee is telling us, that when one sits as a crane , pretending to be absorbed in deep meditation (without actually trying to be absorbed in His Name), is like wanting to cheat and impress others, this is useless and being fake.
Or someone takes baths at so called holy places, that also is useless, because the water is  "jarr" = insentient element; which  can at most wash the physical dirt, but not the dirty subtle mind,  and this is the reason why that person as seen in the words of Guru Jee, shamelessly continues doing evil deeds.
 
Guru Jee also informs/warns us against other practices which people proudly do which in the end are futile, for maybe in the eyes of the world this holds some sort of importance, but, in reality  takes us not even  an inch towrds Him.
ਕਾਹੂ ਲੈ ਪਾਹਨ ਪੂਜ ਧਰਯੋ ਸਿਰ ਕਾਹੂ ਲੈ ਲਿੰਗੁ ਗਰੇ ਲਟਕਾਇਓ ॥
kaahoo lai paahan pooj dharayo sir kaahoo lai li(n)g gare laTakaio ||
Someone worshipped stone and placed it on his head. Someone hung the phallus (lingam) from his neck.
ਕਾਹੂ ਲਖਿਓ ਹਰਿ ਅਵਾਚੀ ਦਿਸਾ ਮਹਿ ਕਾਹੂ ਪਛਾਹ ਕੋ ਸੀਸੁ ਨਿਵਾਇਓ ॥
kaahoo lakhio har avaachee dhisaa meh kaahoo pachhaeh ko sees nivaio ||
Someone visualized God in the South and someone bowed his head towards the West.
ਕੋਊ ਬੁਤਾਨ ਕੋ ਪੂਜਤ ਹੈ ਪਸੁ ਕੋਊ ਮ੍ਰਿਤਾਨ ਕੋ ਪੂਜਨ ਧਾਇਓ ॥
kouoo butaan ko poojat hai pas kouoo mritaan ko poojan dhaio ||
Some fool worships the idols and someone goes to worship the dead.
ਕੂਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਉਰਝਿਓ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਜਗ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਕੋ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ॥੧੦॥੩੦॥
koor kriaa urajhio sabh hee jag sree bhagavaan ko bhedh na paio ||10||30||
The whole world is entangled in false rituals and has not known the secret of Lord-God 10.30.
 
Moreover Guru Jee goes a step further, and tells us something about those avatars,  deites, incarnatiions, gods, godesses to which many take them as equal to the ultimate reality /Truth of Satnam, but which is far from reality cause they too can not escape the noose of death.
Death does not only exist at our physiacl level, but also at those subtle realms below Sach Khand, where countless souls in different bodies, and the rulers of those khands, brahmands, realms, rule, such as the well known trinty of Brahma, Vishnu ( and consecuently his avatars on earth plane) and Shiva.
ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸਰ ਬਿਸਨ ਸਚੀਪਤਿ ਅੰਤ ਫਸੇ ਜਮ ਫਾਸ ਪਰੈਂਗੇ ॥
braham mahesar bisan sacheepat a(n)t fase jam faas parai(n)ge ||
Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu and Consort of Sachi (Indra) would ultimately fall in the noose of death.
ਏਕ ਸਿਵ ਭਏ ਏਕ ਗਏ ਏਕ ਫੇਰ ਭਏ ਰਾਮਚੰਦ੍ਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਕੇ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਭੀ ਅਨੇਕ ਹੈਂ ॥
ek siv bhe ek ge ek fer bhe raamacha(n)dhr kirasan ke avataar bhee anek hai(n) ||
There was one Shiva, who passed away and another one came into being there are many incarnations of Ramchandra and Krishna.
ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਅਰੁ ਬਿਸਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਬੇਦ ਔ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਮੂਹਨ ਕੈ ਹੁਇ ਹੁਇ ਬਿਤਏ ਹੈਂ ॥
brahamaa ar bisan kete bedh aau puraan kete si(n)mirat samoohan kai hui hui bite hai(n) ||
There are many Brahmas and Vishnus, there are many Vedas and Puranas, there have been the authors of all the Smritis, who created their works and passed away.
ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
kite kirasan se keeT koTai upaae ||
He (the Lord) hath Created millions of Krishnas like worms.
ਉਸਾਰੇ ਗੜ੍ਹੇ ਫੇਰ ਮੇਟੇ ਬਨਾਏ ॥
ausaare gaRhe fer meTe banaae ||
He (the Lord)Created them, annihilated them, again destroyed them, still again Created them.
 
Finally He reveals us, the only way to wash our sins/countless karmas and merge in Him forever:
ਫੋਕਟੋ ਸਰਬ ਧਰਮਾ ਬਿਹੀਨ ॥੨੦॥੧੪੦॥
fokaTo sarab dharamaa biheen ||20||140||
All the religious rituals are useless! 20. 140
ਬਿਨੁ ਏਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਇਕ ਚਿੱਤ ਲੀਨ ॥
bin ek naam ik chi't leen ||
Without the single-minded absorption in he Lord’s Name !
 
Now going back. to the question of the OP, of  if we are not engaged  in His name, that is useless  ......  I would say, doing His simran, is the only thing what we can do to be receptive to His barpoor grace, daya meher, in order to move forward towards Him.
We have been born countless times, we have huge amount of dirt on our heads, so it is normal that our mind wanders and does all sort of tricks to block us in trying to go back to Him.
But we too, we are no less, we are sikhs of Guru Jee, so we should also follow His orders diligently and make the mind eat the antidote of His Name(Simran), in order to defeat that naughty wicked  mind.
We are all sick, unless we take the medicine of His Name, how can we ever get well?
Waht sense does it make saying that, unless I get well, I will not take the medicine?  Would that not be foolish?  So, how can we say, if we see nothing within or our mind is not with us in Simran, it is useless to do it.
You see, we are mixing 2 things. One, when someone is trying to behave as religious by showing us that they are in meditation, that is false and cheating.
But, what cheating can it be called,  or useless practice,  if we are trying sincerely to fight with the mind by trying to give it the medicine of His Name? 
We have been wandering since countless births, so how can we ever control the mind in some days, months or even a life span of time? 
Our duty is to be truthful to Guru Jee, by faithfully carrying the devotion desribed by Him to be done, then He the Almighty  and mercifull Lord, will definetely pull us out with His strong arms.
Our duty is only to please Him and extend out our arms,  so that He may pull us out.  
Only that much is in our hands. 
For if it was not for His mercy to forgive our sins, then even countless lives doing 24/7/365  any devotion from our side, would simply not be enough to wash all the load of sins, which we have been collecting since we stepped in the mayavee creation and left our home in Sach Khand.
The Bani clearly says: 
Baha pakar kar Guru kadeeya. 
The Guru pulled me out by holding my arm.

Excellent thread. Thanks.
I would just like to add that all Gurbani is about the praises, about the apaar wadeeayee of Waheguru's real form of Nam.
Now about the question of this thread of if Gurbani or Nam?
It is like as Gurbani is preparing food, and Nam is to eat The Food.
What would happen if we just prepare food but do not eat it?
We would die of hunger.
Which means, we would have lost this priceless human form to reunite our souls with Him, thus stay strongly as prisoners in the wheel of 84.
So Nam is our origin, Nam is our goal, Gurbani is the inspiration or to say like to ignite the true awareness of Nam in us, in order to submit ourselves to His will and by His grace merge in Him.
Anyhow Gurbani is very clear when it says:
EKO NAM HUKAM HAE NANAK SATGUR DHEEA BUJHAAE  JEEO.
Guru Sahiban is saying:
O Nanak, the Satguru has made me understand, that there is one "hukum" for all, and that is Nam (for the purpose of reuniting our souls with Him).

From the ten fighting forms in Shastar Vidiya, at Number 6, we have Hanuman Yudhan, this combat form takes its inspiration from the famed deity Hanuman (half monkey, half man), the greatest disciple of Lord Rama, the avatar of Vishnu.
Prime targets include the lower body, legs and groin. Use of grappling and counter levers, it not only negates the power of opponents, but directs their energy against them.
In application, it advances upon the opponent, slipping past oncoming attacks, and targets the groin region. Sophisticated structure-breaks take place, finally resulting in the opponent being taken to the ground and trampled underfoot.

Please listen to this good explanation.
 
 
 
Bhul chuk maaf
 

Samarbir Jee,
to understand in the right perspective the question you are asking in this thread, I believe let us see what else is said in the following 2 verses to the one you have presented above, though since the start to the end, the whole bani should be read and understood, for it contains countless pearls, diamonds and  rubies of highest spiritual value..
Here it goes:
ਕਹਾ ਭਯੋ ਜੋ ਦੋਊ ਲੋਚਨ ਮੂੰਦ ਕੈ ਬੈਠਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਬਕ ਧਿਆਨ ਲਗਾਇਓ ॥
kahaa bhayo jo dhouoo lochan moo(n)dh kai baiTh rahio bak dhiaan lagaio ||
Of what use it is if one sits and meditates like a crane with his eyes closed.
 
ਨ੍ਹਾਤ ਫਿਰਿਓ ਲੀਏ ਸਾਤ ਸਮੁਦ੍ਰਨਿ ਲੋਕ ਗਯੋ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਗਵਾਇਓ ॥
nhaat firio le'ee saat samudhran lok gayo paralok gavaio ||
If he takes bath at holy places upto the seventh sea, he loses this world and also the next world.
 
ਬਾਸ ਕੀਓ ਬਿਖਿਆਨ ਸੋਂ ਬੈਠ ਕੈ ਐਸੇ ਹੀ ਐਸੇ ਸੁ ਬੈਸ ਬਿਤਾਇਓ ॥
baas keeo bikhiaan so(n) baiTh kai aaise hee aaise su bais bitaio ||
He spends his life in such performing evil actions and wastes his life in such pursuits.
 
* In these verses above, Guru Jee is telling us, that when one sits as a crane , pretending to be absorbed in deep meditation (without actually trying to be absorbed in His Name), is like wanting to cheat and impress others, this is useless and being fake.
Or someone takes baths at so called holy places, that also is useless, because the water is  "jarr" = insentient element; which  can at most wash the physical dirt, but not the dirty subtle mind,  and this is the reason why that person as seen in the words of Guru Jee, shamelessly continues doing evil deeds.
 
Guru Jee also informs/warns us against other practices which people proudly do which in the end are futile, for maybe in the eyes of the world this holds some sort of importance, but, in reality  takes us not even  an inch towrds Him.
ਕਾਹੂ ਲੈ ਪਾਹਨ ਪੂਜ ਧਰਯੋ ਸਿਰ ਕਾਹੂ ਲੈ ਲਿੰਗੁ ਗਰੇ ਲਟਕਾਇਓ ॥
kaahoo lai paahan pooj dharayo sir kaahoo lai li(n)g gare laTakaio ||
Someone worshipped stone and placed it on his head. Someone hung the phallus (lingam) from his neck.
ਕਾਹੂ ਲਖਿਓ ਹਰਿ ਅਵਾਚੀ ਦਿਸਾ ਮਹਿ ਕਾਹੂ ਪਛਾਹ ਕੋ ਸੀਸੁ ਨਿਵਾਇਓ ॥
kaahoo lakhio har avaachee dhisaa meh kaahoo pachhaeh ko sees nivaio ||
Someone visualized God in the South and someone bowed his head towards the West.
ਕੋਊ ਬੁਤਾਨ ਕੋ ਪੂਜਤ ਹੈ ਪਸੁ ਕੋਊ ਮ੍ਰਿਤਾਨ ਕੋ ਪੂਜਨ ਧਾਇਓ ॥
kouoo butaan ko poojat hai pas kouoo mritaan ko poojan dhaio ||
Some fool worships the idols and someone goes to worship the dead.
ਕੂਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਉਰਝਿਓ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਜਗ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਕੋ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ॥੧੦॥੩੦॥
koor kriaa urajhio sabh hee jag sree bhagavaan ko bhedh na paio ||10||30||
The whole world is entangled in false rituals and has not known the secret of Lord-God 10.30.
 
Moreover Guru Jee goes a step further, and tells us something about those avatars,  deites, incarnatiions, gods, godesses to which many take them as equal to the ultimate reality /Truth of Satnam, but which is far from reality cause they too can not escape the noose of death.
Death does not only exist at our physiacl level, but also at those subtle realms below Sach Khand, where countless souls in different bodies, and the rulers of those khands, brahmands, realms, rule, such as the well known trinty of Brahma, Vishnu ( and consecuently his avatars on earth plane) and Shiva.
ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸਰ ਬਿਸਨ ਸਚੀਪਤਿ ਅੰਤ ਫਸੇ ਜਮ ਫਾਸ ਪਰੈਂਗੇ ॥
braham mahesar bisan sacheepat a(n)t fase jam faas parai(n)ge ||
Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu and Consort of Sachi (Indra) would ultimately fall in the noose of death.
ਏਕ ਸਿਵ ਭਏ ਏਕ ਗਏ ਏਕ ਫੇਰ ਭਏ ਰਾਮਚੰਦ੍ਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਕੇ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਭੀ ਅਨੇਕ ਹੈਂ ॥
ek siv bhe ek ge ek fer bhe raamacha(n)dhr kirasan ke avataar bhee anek hai(n) ||
There was one Shiva, who passed away and another one came into being there are many incarnations of Ramchandra and Krishna.
ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਅਰੁ ਬਿਸਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਬੇਦ ਔ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਮੂਹਨ ਕੈ ਹੁਇ ਹੁਇ ਬਿਤਏ ਹੈਂ ॥
brahamaa ar bisan kete bedh aau puraan kete si(n)mirat samoohan kai hui hui bite hai(n) ||
There are many Brahmas and Vishnus, there are many Vedas and Puranas, there have been the authors of all the Smritis, who created their works and passed away.
ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
kite kirasan se keeT koTai upaae ||
He (the Lord) hath Created millions of Krishnas like worms.
ਉਸਾਰੇ ਗੜ੍ਹੇ ਫੇਰ ਮੇਟੇ ਬਨਾਏ ॥
ausaare gaRhe fer meTe banaae ||
He (the Lord)Created them, annihilated them, again destroyed them, still again Created them.
 
Finally He reveals us, the only way to wash our sins/countless karmas and merge in Him forever:
ਫੋਕਟੋ ਸਰਬ ਧਰਮਾ ਬਿਹੀਨ ॥੨੦॥੧੪੦॥
fokaTo sarab dharamaa biheen ||20||140||
All the religious rituals are useless! 20. 140
ਬਿਨੁ ਏਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਇਕ ਚਿੱਤ ਲੀਨ ॥
bin ek naam ik chi't leen ||
Without the single-minded absorption in he Lord’s Name !
 
Now going back. to the question of the OP, of  if we are not engaged  in His name, that is useless  ......  I would say, doing His simran, is the only thing what we can do to be receptive to His barpoor grace, daya meher, in order to move forward towards Him.
We have been born countless times, we have huge amount of dirt on our heads, so it is normal that our mind wanders and does all sort of tricks to block us in trying to go back to Him.
But we too, we are no less, we are sikhs of Guru Jee, so we should also follow His orders diligently and make the mind eat the antidote of His Name(Simran), in order to defeat that naughty wicked  mind.
We are all sick, unless we take the medicine of His Name, how can we ever get well?
Waht sense does it make saying that, unless I get well, I will not take the medicine?  Would that not be foolish?  So, how can we say, if we see nothing within or our mind is not with us in Simran, it is useless to do it.
You see, we are mixing 2 things. One, when someone is trying to behave as religious by showing us that they are in meditation, that is false and cheating.
But, what cheating can it be called,  or useless practice,  if we are trying sincerely to fight with the mind by trying to give it the medicine of His Name? 
We have been wandering since countless births, so how can we ever control the mind in some days, months or even a life span of time? 
Our duty is to be truthful to Guru Jee, by faithfully carrying the devotion desribed by Him to be done, then He the Almighty  and mercifull Lord, will definetely pull us out with His strong arms.
Our duty is only to please Him and extend out our arms,  so that He may pull us out.  
Only that much is in our hands. 
For if it was not for His mercy to forgive our sins, then even countless lives doing 24/7/365  any devotion from our side, would simply not be enough to wash all the load of sins, which we have been collecting since we stepped in the mayavee creation and left our home in Sach Khand.
The Bani clearly says: 
Baha pakar kar Guru kadeeya. 
The Guru pulled me out by holding my arm.

Samarbir Jee,
to understand in the right perspective the question you are asking in this thread, I believe let us see what else is said in the following 2 verses to the one you have presented above, though since the start to the end, the whole bani should be read and understood, for it contains countless pearls, diamonds and  rubies of highest spiritual value..
Here it goes:
ਕਹਾ ਭਯੋ ਜੋ ਦੋਊ ਲੋਚਨ ਮੂੰਦ ਕੈ ਬੈਠਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਬਕ ਧਿਆਨ ਲਗਾਇਓ ॥
kahaa bhayo jo dhouoo lochan moo(n)dh kai baiTh rahio bak dhiaan lagaio ||
Of what use it is if one sits and meditates like a crane with his eyes closed.
 
ਨ੍ਹਾਤ ਫਿਰਿਓ ਲੀਏ ਸਾਤ ਸਮੁਦ੍ਰਨਿ ਲੋਕ ਗਯੋ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਗਵਾਇਓ ॥
nhaat firio le'ee saat samudhran lok gayo paralok gavaio ||
If he takes bath at holy places upto the seventh sea, he loses this world and also the next world.
 
ਬਾਸ ਕੀਓ ਬਿਖਿਆਨ ਸੋਂ ਬੈਠ ਕੈ ਐਸੇ ਹੀ ਐਸੇ ਸੁ ਬੈਸ ਬਿਤਾਇਓ ॥
baas keeo bikhiaan so(n) baiTh kai aaise hee aaise su bais bitaio ||
He spends his life in such performing evil actions and wastes his life in such pursuits.
 
* In these verses above, Guru Jee is telling us, that when one sits as a crane , pretending to be absorbed in deep meditation (without actually trying to be absorbed in His Name), is like wanting to cheat and impress others, this is useless and being fake.
Or someone takes baths at so called holy places, that also is useless, because the water is  "jarr" = insentient element; which  can at most wash the physical dirt, but not the dirty subtle mind,  and this is the reason why that person as seen in the words of Guru Jee, shamelessly continues doing evil deeds.
 
Guru Jee also informs/warns us against other practices which people proudly do which in the end are futile, for maybe in the eyes of the world this holds some sort of importance, but, in reality  takes us not even  an inch towrds Him.
ਕਾਹੂ ਲੈ ਪਾਹਨ ਪੂਜ ਧਰਯੋ ਸਿਰ ਕਾਹੂ ਲੈ ਲਿੰਗੁ ਗਰੇ ਲਟਕਾਇਓ ॥
kaahoo lai paahan pooj dharayo sir kaahoo lai li(n)g gare laTakaio ||
Someone worshipped stone and placed it on his head. Someone hung the phallus (lingam) from his neck.
ਕਾਹੂ ਲਖਿਓ ਹਰਿ ਅਵਾਚੀ ਦਿਸਾ ਮਹਿ ਕਾਹੂ ਪਛਾਹ ਕੋ ਸੀਸੁ ਨਿਵਾਇਓ ॥
kaahoo lakhio har avaachee dhisaa meh kaahoo pachhaeh ko sees nivaio ||
Someone visualized God in the South and someone bowed his head towards the West.
ਕੋਊ ਬੁਤਾਨ ਕੋ ਪੂਜਤ ਹੈ ਪਸੁ ਕੋਊ ਮ੍ਰਿਤਾਨ ਕੋ ਪੂਜਨ ਧਾਇਓ ॥
kouoo butaan ko poojat hai pas kouoo mritaan ko poojan dhaio ||
Some fool worships the idols and someone goes to worship the dead.
ਕੂਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਉਰਝਿਓ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਜਗ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਕੋ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ॥੧੦॥੩੦॥
koor kriaa urajhio sabh hee jag sree bhagavaan ko bhedh na paio ||10||30||
The whole world is entangled in false rituals and has not known the secret of Lord-God 10.30.
 
Moreover Guru Jee goes a step further, and tells us something about those avatars,  deites, incarnatiions, gods, godesses to which many take them as equal to the ultimate reality /Truth of Satnam, but which is far from reality cause they too can not escape the noose of death.
Death does not only exist at our physiacl level, but also at those subtle realms below Sach Khand, where countless souls in different bodies, and the rulers of those khands, brahmands, realms, rule, such as the well known trinty of Brahma, Vishnu ( and consecuently his avatars on earth plane) and Shiva.
ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸਰ ਬਿਸਨ ਸਚੀਪਤਿ ਅੰਤ ਫਸੇ ਜਮ ਫਾਸ ਪਰੈਂਗੇ ॥
braham mahesar bisan sacheepat a(n)t fase jam faas parai(n)ge ||
Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu and Consort of Sachi (Indra) would ultimately fall in the noose of death.
ਏਕ ਸਿਵ ਭਏ ਏਕ ਗਏ ਏਕ ਫੇਰ ਭਏ ਰਾਮਚੰਦ੍ਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਕੇ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਭੀ ਅਨੇਕ ਹੈਂ ॥
ek siv bhe ek ge ek fer bhe raamacha(n)dhr kirasan ke avataar bhee anek hai(n) ||
There was one Shiva, who passed away and another one came into being there are many incarnations of Ramchandra and Krishna.
ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਅਰੁ ਬਿਸਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਬੇਦ ਔ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਮੂਹਨ ਕੈ ਹੁਇ ਹੁਇ ਬਿਤਏ ਹੈਂ ॥
brahamaa ar bisan kete bedh aau puraan kete si(n)mirat samoohan kai hui hui bite hai(n) ||
There are many Brahmas and Vishnus, there are many Vedas and Puranas, there have been the authors of all the Smritis, who created their works and passed away.
ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
kite kirasan se keeT koTai upaae ||
He (the Lord) hath Created millions of Krishnas like worms.
ਉਸਾਰੇ ਗੜ੍ਹੇ ਫੇਰ ਮੇਟੇ ਬਨਾਏ ॥
ausaare gaRhe fer meTe banaae ||
He (the Lord)Created them, annihilated them, again destroyed them, still again Created them.
 
Finally He reveals us, the only way to wash our sins/countless karmas and merge in Him forever:
ਫੋਕਟੋ ਸਰਬ ਧਰਮਾ ਬਿਹੀਨ ॥੨੦॥੧੪੦॥
fokaTo sarab dharamaa biheen ||20||140||
All the religious rituals are useless! 20. 140
ਬਿਨੁ ਏਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਇਕ ਚਿੱਤ ਲੀਨ ॥
bin ek naam ik chi't leen ||
Without the single-minded absorption in he Lord’s Name !
 
Now going back. to the question of the OP, of  if we are not engaged  in His name, that is useless  ......  I would say, doing His simran, is the only thing what we can do to be receptive to His barpoor grace, daya meher, in order to move forward towards Him.
We have been born countless times, we have huge amount of dirt on our heads, so it is normal that our mind wanders and does all sort of tricks to block us in trying to go back to Him.
But we too, we are no less, we are sikhs of Guru Jee, so we should also follow His orders diligently and make the mind eat the antidote of His Name(Simran), in order to defeat that naughty wicked  mind.
We are all sick, unless we take the medicine of His Name, how can we ever get well?
Waht sense does it make saying that, unless I get well, I will not take the medicine?  Would that not be foolish?  So, how can we say, if we see nothing within or our mind is not with us in Simran, it is useless to do it.
You see, we are mixing 2 things. One, when someone is trying to behave as religious by showing us that they are in meditation, that is false and cheating.
But, what cheating can it be called,  or useless practice,  if we are trying sincerely to fight with the mind by trying to give it the medicine of His Name? 
We have been wandering since countless births, so how can we ever control the mind in some days, months or even a life span of time? 
Our duty is to be truthful to Guru Jee, by faithfully carrying the devotion desribed by Him to be done, then He the Almighty  and mercifull Lord, will definetely pull us out with His strong arms.
Our duty is only to please Him and extend out our arms,  so that He may pull us out.  
Only that much is in our hands. 
For if it was not for His mercy to forgive our sins, then even countless lives doing 24/7/365  any devotion from our side, would simply not be enough to wash all the load of sins, which we have been collecting since we stepped in the mayavee creation and left our home in Sach Khand.
The Bani clearly says: 
Baha pakar kar Guru kadeeya. 
The Guru pulled me out by holding my arm.

wjkk wjkf What does this shabad mean? Is guru sahib ji sahib saying there's no point in doing simran? Surely it doesn't mean that, i just dont have buddi to understand, if someone can help it would great. kahaa bhayo jo dhouoo lochan moo(n)dh kai baiTh rahio bak dhiaan lagaio ||

Guest jee,
below are some inspiring sat bachans from the Bani.
sarab niDhaan naam har har kai jis karam likhi-aa tin paavaa.
All treasures are in the Name of the Lord, Har, Har; he alone obtains it, who has it written in his karma.
 
* Also , if you wish to stay at His lotus Feet, keep His name in your mind at all times, this will automatically keep your head at His charan kamal.
In fact, Sachay Patshah is nothing physical, yet by repeating His holy name devotedly, it is like staying at His holy lotus Feet.
Receiving Amrit, means becoming aware of establishing a loving and a faithful relationship with Him at all times, and this Bro, can only be done through the repetition of His holy amritful Name
God bless you.

Guest Shaheed Jee, 
as brother Souldfinder has perfectly said:  amrit is amrit and it shouldn't be divided by marayada.
So there is hardly anything to be added, but just to confirm that it is a fair and a practical answer, thus agreed with it.
Cause, the Panj Pyare are just intermediators, are just witness of you seeking Him and to love Him for the sake of loving Him. That is it.
After all in the end, the reality  is that only we, each one of us as individual souls and Him is what remains, and counts.
Then too, I would just add: Trust Waheguru with all your heart, do not depend much on your own understanding, seek His will in all what you do, and He will show you the path to take.

Guest Shaheed Jee, 
as brother Souldfinder has perfectly said:  amrit is amrit and it shouldn't be divided by marayada.
So there is hardly anything to be added, but just to confirm that it is a fair and a practical answer, thus agreed with it.
Cause, the Panj Pyare are just intermediators, are just witness of you seeking Him and to love Him for the sake of loving Him. That is it.
After all in the end, the reality  is that only we, each one of us as individual souls and Him is what remains, and counts.
Then too, I would just add: Trust Waheguru with all your heart, do not depend much on your own understanding, seek His will in all what you do, and He will show you the path to take.

Veer ji you can take amrit from any where where there is a amrit sancher. If there is a specific maryada you wish to follow then you can amrit from them. But try to look at this way that amrit is amrit and it shouldn't be divided by marayada.

Thanks Lucky Jee.
From your post, at least a couple of conclusions can be made.
First, that no matter how much paapee one can be, there is always mercy from His side, more than deserved by any of us. 
Secondly, the very essence of Sikhee, which is the bhagtee of Naam japna to free ourselves from all our entanglements and above all, to stay out of the reach of Jam doots. (There where Nam abides, not even Kal Purush dares to come near).
In this sense, I will not add anything more, let each one make an inner self consciouss exam of oneself, and see if one is doing that bhagti, of which you are an example, a witness, and that which is the true devotion performed as mentioned throughout the Bani.
It is a mark of His grace also, that you are relating us what we all ought to do, and fear a bit at least, in doing any harm/misbehaviour of any type with anybody in His creation. 
Once again thanks.

Thanks Lucky Jee.
From your post, at least a couple of conclusions can be made.
First, that no matter how much paapee one can be, there is always mercy from His side, more than deserved by any of us. 
Secondly, the very essence of Sikhee, which is the bhagtee of Naam japna to free ourselves from all our entanglements and above all, to stay out of the reach of Jam doots. (There where Nam abides, not even Kal Purush dares to come near).
In this sense, I will not add anything more, let each one make an inner self consciouss exam of oneself, and see if one is doing that bhagti, of which you are an example, a witness, and that which is the true devotion performed as mentioned throughout the Bani.
It is a mark of His grace also, that you are relating us what we all ought to do, and fear a bit at least, in doing any harm/misbehaviour of any type with anybody in His creation. 
Once again thanks.

Thanks Lucky Jee.
From your post, at least a couple of conclusions can be made.
First, that no matter how much paapee one can be, there is always mercy from His side, more than deserved by any of us. 
Secondly, the very essence of Sikhee, which is the bhagtee of Naam japna to free ourselves from all our entanglements and above all, to stay out of the reach of Jam doots. (There where Nam abides, not even Kal Purush dares to come near).
In this sense, I will not add anything more, let each one make an inner self consciouss exam of oneself, and see if one is doing that bhagti, of which you are an example, a witness, and that which is the true devotion performed as mentioned throughout the Bani.
It is a mark of His grace also, that you are relating us what we all ought to do, and fear a bit at least, in doing any harm/misbehaviour of any type with anybody in His creation. 
Once again thanks.