amardeep

It's probably someone testing how far one can go in criticizing the Akhand Kirtani Jatha in order to make drama on this forum saying "look at the hypocrisy.. If you criticize Damdami Taksal or Nihangs you get a warning bla bla bla and if you criticize AKJ nothing happens"... Clearly someone looking to cause drama.

It's probably someone testing how far one can go in criticizing the Akhand Kirtani Jatha in order to make drama on this forum saying "look at the hypocrisy.. If you criticize Damdami Taksal or Nihangs you get a warning bla bla bla and if you criticize AKJ nothing happens"... Clearly someone looking to cause drama.

It's probably someone testing how far one can go in criticizing the Akhand Kirtani Jatha in order to make drama on this forum saying "look at the hypocrisy.. If you criticize Damdami Taksal or Nihangs you get a warning bla bla bla and if you criticize AKJ nothing happens"... Clearly someone looking to cause drama.

"The Ninth Nanak, Guru Teghbahadur, being of a pious bent toured the Eastern provinces with the Bengali monarch in the hope of establishing a prominent Sikh foothold in that region. Since the days of the first Nanak, the Sikhs had been spread far and wide and the Guru desired to collate the Eastern Sikhs under the authority of Nanak. With him traveled a several-hundred strong guard composed of his father, Har Gobind's, finest warriors. These men had inflicted costly defeats on the Delhi court in their heyday and were always prepared to re-manifest the glory which they had earned under their founder.'
-"New Lights on Mogul India from Assames Sources," S.K. Bhuyan, 'Islamic Culture, Vol. III, no. 2,' (January 1934 A.D.), pg. 89."

"The Ninth Nanak, Guru Teghbahadur, being of a pious bent toured the Eastern provinces with the Bengali monarch in the hope of establishing a prominent Sikh foothold in that region. Since the days of the first Nanak, the Sikhs had been spread far and wide and the Guru desired to collate the Eastern Sikhs under the authority of Nanak. With him traveled a several-hundred strong guard composed of his father, Har Gobind's, finest warriors. These men had inflicted costly defeats on the Delhi court in their heyday and were always prepared to re-manifest the glory which they had earned under their founder.'
-"New Lights on Mogul India from Assames Sources," S.K. Bhuyan, 'Islamic Culture, Vol. III, no. 2,' (January 1934 A.D.), pg. 89."

Not true. The sihari is an old form of grammar (used especially in poems because it can make rhyming and rhythm a lot easier). You cannot understand Guru Granth Sahib without understanding the rules of sihari and aonkarh.

The sihari and aokarh aren't just grammer either. They are actually pronounced.
E.g.
ਹਰਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਵਿ
Har Sat Kar Kav ☓
Hari Satye Kare Kavi ✓

Proper understanding of meaning comes from proper pronunciation and reading.
He is using both past and present. There's a word for that, which escapes me.

ਕਰਿ is ਕਰਿਹ in this sentence. And ਕਰਿਹ is old punjabi, in modern Punjabi it would be ਕਰ ਰਿਹਾ or in case of a respectful individual, elder - ਕਰ ਰਹੇ


So what would this sentence read like had it been written in modern punjabi as a statement (as opposed to a poem).

ਜਪੁ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਰਸਨੀਂ ਕਰਿ ਉਚਾਰੁ - old punjabi, poem
V
ਜਪੁ ਜੀ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਰਸਨੀਂ ਕਰ ਰਹੇ ਉਚਾਰ (ਰਸਨੀਂ is ਰਸਨਾ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ)
V
ਜਪੁ ਜੀ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੂੰ ਰਸਨਾ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ ਉਚਾਰ ਰਹੇ ਸਨ - modernpunjabi, sentence

Edit:
On second thought, It seems ਕਰਿ is ਕਰ ਕੇ in both sentences.

ਕਟੋਰਾਂ ਜਲ ਦਾ ਸੁਚੇਤ ਕਰਿ ਲੈ ਆਉ - old punjabi
V
ਜਲ ਦੇ ਕਟੋਰੇ ਨੂੰ ਸੁਚੇਤ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਲੈ ਆਉ - modern punjabi


ਜਪੁ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਰਸਨੀਂ ਕਰਿ ਉਚਾਰੁ - old punjabi, poem (ਉਚਾਰ ਕਰ ਕੇ  = ਉਚਾਰ ਕੇ)
V
ਜਪੁ ਜੀ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੂੰ ਰਸਨਾ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ ਉਚਾਰ ਕੇ (ਹਟੇ)  - modernpunjabi, sentence

Meaning remains the same either way -
ਜਪੁ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਰਸਨੀਂ ਕਰਿ ਉਚਾਰੁ | ਤਾਂ ਦੀਵਾਨ ਸਾਹਬ ਚੰਦ ਹਥ ਜੋੜ ਖਲੋਤਾ ਵਿਚ ਦਰਬਾਰ |
Then (Guru Sahib) recited the "Jap" and "Anand" (the prayers) out loud. Then Diwan Sahib Chand, who was standing in the court, with his hands folded,

ਕਹਿਆ ਗਰੀਬ ਨਿਵਾਜ਼ ਵਿਚ ਮਿੱਠਾ ਪਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਬਣੇ ਸੁਆਦ  |  ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ ਲੈ ਆਉ ਧਰਮ ਚੰਦ ਪਤਾਸੇ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦ |
requested "O Gareebniwaz (Guru Sahib), if there was sweetness then it would be tasty" . Then (Guru Sahib) said "Dharam Chand bring the Patashay Parshad (sugar chips).


So here's the modern punjabi version.
ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਜਪੁ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਉਚਾਰ ਕੇ ਧਰਮ ਚੰਦ ਨੂੰ ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ ਕੇ ਪਤਾਸ਼ੇ ਲੈ ਆਉ |

ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਜਪੁ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਉਚਾਰ ਕੇ, ਕਿਉਕਿ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਚੰਦ ਨੇ ਮਿੱਠਾ ਪਾਉਣ ਲਈ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਕੀਤੀ, ਧਰਮ ਚੰਦ ਨੂੰ ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ ਕੇ ਪਤਾਸ਼ੇ ਲੈ ਆਉ |

ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜਪੁ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਉਚਾਰ ਕੇ ਹਟੇ, ਤਾਂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਚੰਦ ਨੇ ਮਿੱਠਾ ਪਾਉਣ ਲਈ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਕੀਤੀ, ਫੇਰ ਓਹ੍ਨਾਂ ਨੇ ਧਰਮ ਚੰਦ ਨੂੰ ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ ਕੇ ਪਤਾਸ਼ੇ ਲੈ ਆਉ |

Quick inputs:
 
The Daughter of Raja Ala Singh is said to have patroned a Nirmala sadhu in the 1770s who read out the Mahabharat for her and the sangats.
During the late 1700s many Bunge were established around Harimandir Sahib. Im not sure if these were educational or mainly for pilgrims to stay at.
During the 1820s-1840s the smaller Phulkian state of Kaithal patroned Kavi Santokh Singh who authored the Garab Ganjani Teeka and Suraj Prakash Granth

During the 1830s there was a scholar poet at the Patiala Darbar named Bhai Vir Singh Bal that wrote two granths on Sikh history
During the 1860s Maharaja Narinder Singh patroned the Nirmale by establishing their main central Akhara where Pandit Tara Singh Narotam used to Work from. From this akhara Giani Gian Singh and others also worked.
During the 1880s the Raja of Faridkot patroned the massive Faridkot Teeka
During the 1880s the Raja of Jind is said to have commisioned the  translation of the Suraj Prakash Granth into urdu
After 1900 the Patiala government patroned the publishing of the Mahankosh (and probably also other writings of Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha)
 

Gurfateh
let us have a discussion on the contribution of the Phulkian misls and their kingdoms to the spread and Growth of Sikhi during the 200 years these kingdoms lasted (1760s - 1950s)
What Gurdwaras and institutions did they build?
What scholars, poets, painters etc. did they patron?
How did they contribute to the spread of Sikhi in Punjab and outside Punjab?

Important: Lets leave aside their treachery to the Khalsa Panth and Lahore Darbar as this is well known. Let’s focus on their positive contributions only.

 

we need more of this kind

Beautiful. Leading the way for a life time of study (internal and external)

Like i've said earlier - the Singhs you meet who degrate women are losers. They opress women on the basis of being losers.. They dont opress them because they've read the Charitro Pakhyan. They might abuse the Charitro Pakhyan as a way of justifying their behavioir, but in essence they are just losers and needs to be categorized as such.

The authencity of scripture does not rely on how people interpret and act upon it. Likewise the authencity of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib does not rely on whether Sikhs practice its teachings right or wrong.

The authencity of scripture does not rely on how people interpret and act upon it. Likewise the authencity of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib does not rely on whether Sikhs practice its teachings right or wrong.

If you read around you will see that in the past couple of months there have been critical discussions on the Damdami Taksal Rahit Maryada stance on female panj pyare without any interference. Likewise their leaders have been disrespected without any interference as well as their supposed lineages have been critically debated.
I dont think there have been much AKJ discussions recently.
 
So its a bit odd to say that Damdami Taksal are somehow treated as holy here in regards to the many discussions in the past couple of months.

Many westerners do yoga and simran for the sake of stress free lives so they can continue working their arses off. lol

If you read around you will see that in the past couple of months there have been critical discussions on the Damdami Taksal Rahit Maryada stance on female panj pyare without any interference. Likewise their leaders have been disrespected without any interference as well as their supposed lineages have been critically debated.
I dont think there have been much AKJ discussions recently.
 
So its a bit odd to say that Damdami Taksal are somehow treated as holy here in regards to the many discussions in the past couple of months.

Many westerners do yoga and simran for the sake of stress free lives so they can continue working their arses off. lol

^^^
Sikhs have just come out of a protracted period of being co-opted in European imperialism which has had devastatingly negative effects on them and their homeland. So don't be surprised if some of us a bit skeptical about Sikhs (male OR female) being co-opted abroad again. 
Let me put it in perspective: using your logic I could argue that those Muslims that have fled Europe to fight with ISIS are 'brave'. That doesn't make what they are doing right to me. 
Who was more brave - the black guys who fought in Vietnam for the US, or someone like the boxer Muhammad Ali, who didn't but spoke out about structural white racism and refused to participate in it. 

Like i've said earlier - the Singhs you meet who degrate women are losers. They opress women on the basis of being losers.. They dont opress them because they've read the Charitro Pakhyan. They might abuse the Charitro Pakhyan as a way of justifying their behavioir, but in essence they are just losers and needs to be categorized as such.

Like i've said earlier - the Singhs you meet who degrate women are losers. They opress women on the basis of being losers.. They dont opress them because they've read the Charitro Pakhyan. They might abuse the Charitro Pakhyan as a way of justifying their behavioir, but in essence they are just losers and needs to be categorized as such.

Like i've said earlier - the Singhs you meet who degrate women are losers. They opress women on the basis of being losers.. They dont opress them because they've read the Charitro Pakhyan. They might abuse the Charitro Pakhyan as a way of justifying their behavioir, but in essence they are just losers and needs to be categorized as such.

I have to add:
I think Guru ji actually created (or sanctioned - if you like) certain texts to stimulate debate and discussion - and the way certain DG compositions (most especially CP) do just this is a sign of their resounding success in this department. 

Not that im aware of.
Their external practices freak out and disgust most people but their philosophy is extremely deep and impressive.
 
A saying of theirs is "This path will either take you to the lowest of hells or the highest of heavens".

Not that im aware of.
Their external practices freak out and disgust most people but their philosophy is extremely deep and impressive.
 
A saying of theirs is "This path will either take you to the lowest of hells or the highest of heavens".

Bhai Nand Lal's ganjnama praises Guru Har Rai as the Gardan-zane sarkashân (decapitator of the heads of tyrants) - clear military terminology.