amardeep

Is it possible the Satnamis were part of the wider Udasi fold?
And interesting point regarding the Mughal accounts that describe the Guru as a rebel leader!!
 
There is a Marathi source from 1803 that mentions the meeting of Guru Hargobind Sahib and the spiritual leader of Shivaji wherein the whole aspect of soldiery is mentioned. A friend of mine said this sakhi is only found in later Sikh sources post 1803 which Means the Sikh scholars picked this sakhi up from the Marathis and included into their own writings later on. Im not sure how accurate this as I havent checked into the Bansavalinama and Mahima Prakash to see if the Sakhi is there. Balwant Singh Dhillon has also argued that the Dadupanthis did'n become militant until after their meeting with Guru Gobind Singh. He then attributes their short militancy period to Guru Gobind Singh's discussions with their leader while at Rajastan.

I'll make a post regarding this later, im out for a couple of hours. Maybe NeoSingh can split this up to a new topic.

Meat has nothing to do with it. Hundreds of thousands of Europeans and Americans have converted to Budhism which likewise preaches vegetarianism.
The topic here is why have'nt Sikhi spread, its not why are'nt Sikhs practicing Sikhi. Please make a new topic if you wish to discuss why Sikhs are'nt practising their own faith.

Would be interesting to have the original farsi Word. The Word desh for instance does'nt have to mean an independant country - it can also mean territory of a province (Madra Desh, Malwa Desh, Kashmir Desh etc). I think in 17th Century English the Word country did'n have the same meaning as of today either. I'll have a farsi knowing Singh look up the original Word used. I think it Refers to lands of the Mughal empire and not other countries of Asia etc.
 
 
Not invalid. Yes forced converstions did happen from time to time but 800+ years of Islamic rule over India was not one long process of forced conversions. Some rulers did indeed, but not all - actually only a very few, amongst these Aurangzeb being the most notorious. There were other incentives for Indian conversions (social, theological, political and economical). If you want to forcibly convert a whole country it does'nt take centuries - otherwise its very weak force.
 
Personally im not too big a fan of that "we did'n force anyone, thats why we are so few". I hear it at the local Gurdwara also. It feels like elitist talk "We were better than everyone else, thats why we are so few". It is a way of removing any responsobility for our lack of parchaar in the past... "if we forced people like them, we would have been numerous. But we are superior, thats why we are few"..  It feels like beating around the bushes.

​This is a good point. Conversions in the past were most often "collective conversions" - whole tribes or kingdoms of people converting in one go. If you look at tribal structures in Middle East for instance you see how certain tribes are shia, others are sunni, while others are something third. Its not because some Sheikh had the luck to convince every single member of that tribe that their particular religion/sect was correct. In most cases if you could convince the leader of the tribe, the rest would follow suit.
Indonesia and Malaysia became Muslim countries without the need for any Muslim country to invade the lands. They simply converted the local Hindu kings whereafter the populations soon followed through. Apart from those mentioned by Sikhkhoj, there probably were'nt that many influental rulers who became Sikhs in history to an extent where their subjects followed through.

Ilford in East London has a church that caters to the Punjabi audience. People leaving Sikhi in the diaspora is rising - whether for deras, sects or other religions.
 
At the same time however I also see more and more people converting to Sikhi.

Haha its cool to go through these posts from 2006-2007 when I was first getting into Sikhi.

Satkirin:

The purpose of the Charitro Pakhyan is clear - to present the world as it is. Thats why early Sikh litterature calls it "Sansaar mein bani" (scripture about worldly affairs). It does not contain any spiritual guidance as such, - only moral and ethical. The purpose of it is to show the affairs of men and women in times of Peace, times of war, times of conflict, times of struggle, times of stress, times of deception and the reality of religious hypocracy.... Many of the stories regard people who were looked upto or feared in society (administrators, religios priests etc).. To attack their social status in the eyes of people - they are made fun of and exposed....  You read it as stigma of women, - others will read it as stigma of men as they are labelled as weak creatures that can't control their lust and merely follow their whims and Desires. Depending on who the reader is, the reader can find reasons to object to it. And this was probably also the reason why it was written. To smash reality into ones face.
 
People today are too focused on the sexual content, but the lust for women or worldly things in the stories are often the medium for something else - warfare, social issues between husband and wife, conflicts in extended families etc. It basically shows that much of world drama is due to lust and attachment to worldly things. I dont really think many people would disagree with this - look at wars of today - often based on a fight/lust for ressources

Haha its cool to go through these posts from 2006-2007 when I was first getting into Sikhi.

Several paintings were made of the Gurus during their lifetime - Guru Hargobind, Guru Har Rai, Guru Tegh Bahadur and Guru Gobind Singh. Some of these are pasted into the Dasam Granth Anandpuri bir of 1696

Several paintings were made of the Gurus during their lifetime - Guru Hargobind, Guru Har Rai, Guru Tegh Bahadur and Guru Gobind Singh. Some of these are pasted into the Dasam Granth Anandpuri bir of 1696

Satkirin:

The purpose of the Charitro Pakhyan is clear - to present the world as it is. Thats why early Sikh litterature calls it "Sansaar mein bani" (scripture about worldly affairs). It does not contain any spiritual guidance as such, - only moral and ethical. The purpose of it is to show the affairs of men and women in times of Peace, times of war, times of conflict, times of struggle, times of stress, times of deception and the reality of religious hypocracy.... Many of the stories regard people who were looked upto or feared in society (administrators, religios priests etc).. To attack their social status in the eyes of people - they are made fun of and exposed....  You read it as stigma of women, - others will read it as stigma of men as they are labelled as weak creatures that can't control their lust and merely follow their whims and Desires. Depending on who the reader is, the reader can find reasons to object to it. And this was probably also the reason why it was written. To smash reality into ones face.
 
People today are too focused on the sexual content, but the lust for women or worldly things in the stories are often the medium for something else - warfare, social issues between husband and wife, conflicts in extended families etc. It basically shows that much of world drama is due to lust and attachment to worldly things. I dont really think many people would disagree with this - look at wars of today - often based on a fight/lust for ressources

The Charitro Pakhyan is katha of the 5 vices.  It gives narrations on how the 5 vices manifest in real life - violence, lustful conduct, ego, attachment leading to war etc.

Satkirin:

The purpose of the Charitro Pakhyan is clear - to present the world as it is. Thats why early Sikh litterature calls it "Sansaar mein bani" (scripture about worldly affairs). It does not contain any spiritual guidance as such, - only moral and ethical. The purpose of it is to show the affairs of men and women in times of Peace, times of war, times of conflict, times of struggle, times of stress, times of deception and the reality of religious hypocracy.... Many of the stories regard people who were looked upto or feared in society (administrators, religios priests etc).. To attack their social status in the eyes of people - they are made fun of and exposed....  You read it as stigma of women, - others will read it as stigma of men as they are labelled as weak creatures that can't control their lust and merely follow their whims and Desires. Depending on who the reader is, the reader can find reasons to object to it. And this was probably also the reason why it was written. To smash reality into ones face.
 
People today are too focused on the sexual content, but the lust for women or worldly things in the stories are often the medium for something else - warfare, social issues between husband and wife, conflicts in extended families etc. It basically shows that much of world drama is due to lust and attachment to worldly things. I dont really think many people would disagree with this - look at wars of today - often based on a fight/lust for ressources

Satkirin:

The purpose of the Charitro Pakhyan is clear - to present the world as it is. Thats why early Sikh litterature calls it "Sansaar mein bani" (scripture about worldly affairs). It does not contain any spiritual guidance as such, - only moral and ethical. The purpose of it is to show the affairs of men and women in times of Peace, times of war, times of conflict, times of struggle, times of stress, times of deception and the reality of religious hypocracy.... Many of the stories regard people who were looked upto or feared in society (administrators, religios priests etc).. To attack their social status in the eyes of people - they are made fun of and exposed....  You read it as stigma of women, - others will read it as stigma of men as they are labelled as weak creatures that can't control their lust and merely follow their whims and Desires. Depending on who the reader is, the reader can find reasons to object to it. And this was probably also the reason why it was written. To smash reality into ones face.
 
People today are too focused on the sexual content, but the lust for women or worldly things in the stories are often the medium for something else - warfare, social issues between husband and wife, conflicts in extended families etc. It basically shows that much of world drama is due to lust and attachment to worldly things. I dont really think many people would disagree with this - look at wars of today - often based on a fight/lust for ressources

The Charitro Pakhyan is katha of the 5 vices.  It gives narrations on how the 5 vices manifest in real life - violence, lustful conduct, ego, attachment leading to war etc.

Here it is. Quite bulky, about 1000 pages
 
http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuser/searches/displayPage.jsp?ID=2129&page=1&CategoryID=3&Searched=

During the times of the Gurus and early period after (till about Baba Deep Singh) contacts were maintained with the Sangats established by Guru Nanak throughout the world. There were Gurdwaras in far away places like the Arab countries, Uzbekistan, Nepal and the east (Assam etc). The arabic bir supposedly prepared by Baba Deep Singh could not have been for Punjabi Sikhs living in Arab lands, that does not make sense. It was most perhaps for the Arab Sikhs living there. Sayed Prithipal Singh talks about an Arabic Japji he saw in Arabia. Our historical sources talk about Gurdwaras sponsored by local Muslim rulers in Arabia.
I think somewhere between the period of severe persecution (Ghallugharas) contacts were slowly lost, so till the 20th century only small communities of Arabic, Iraqi & other non Punjabi Sikhs survived, which by now might have completely vanished. Just because there were over a 100 Arabic Sikh families in 1930 does not mean that the numbers of Arabic Sikhs was always insignificant, Arabic sources discovered by Syed Prithipal talk about significant proportions of Arabs adopting Sikhi during and just after Guru Nanaks visits. If Qazi Rukn Deen could've been persecuted, just imagine what would've happened to other Arabic Sikhs? 

​Sant inderjit singh ji raqbe wale comes to mind, they are quite approachable. This singh from mangalcharan.com spent quite sometime with them at scarbrough gurdwara in toronto. Here is their latest video-
 
 

Very rightly said by SikhKhoj bro...but remember one thing while there are many who do nishkam seva there are many who fight for golaks and jatvaadi mentality ..those are very visible in the Pinds openly...Sikhi might be a helping face elsewhere but in the Pinds ..the ravidassi and mazhbi brothers are being tormented and they are moving out.
 

Christians see (Nepal) disasters as an opportunity to spread gospel of Jesus Christ.
Muslims see weak people and opress & convert them.
We see the poor and do nishkam seva without asking them to convert, and instead of opressing the weak, we defend them as taught by our Gurus.
This might work against us in demographics but in characters all these religions look weak in front of Sikhi.

Why can't a mona be classified as a Sikh?

​This is a good point. Conversions in the past were most often "collective conversions" - whole tribes or kingdoms of people converting in one go. If you look at tribal structures in Middle East for instance you see how certain tribes are shia, others are sunni, while others are something third. Its not because some Sheikh had the luck to convince every single member of that tribe that their particular religion/sect was correct. In most cases if you could convince the leader of the tribe, the rest would follow suit.
Indonesia and Malaysia became Muslim countries without the need for any Muslim country to invade the lands. They simply converted the local Hindu kings whereafter the populations soon followed through. Apart from those mentioned by Sikhkhoj, there probably were'nt that many influental rulers who became Sikhs in history to an extent where their subjects followed through.

Gurfateh
 
See these
 
A little known fact is that if not for the ambition of Maharajah Ranjit Singh (Lion of Punjab, who ruled from 1799 AD – 1839 AD), to expand his empire into Kashmir, today this region would be part of Afghanistan.
 

http://amardeepphotography.com/kashmir-the-afghanistan-frontier/

I see it more as Gurbani looking upon them as wasting their life, wasting their oppurtunities etc. And not that they shall be condemned for eternal damnation.

i would recommend you to use www.srigranth.org instead for searching and reading the Guru Granth Sahib. It's a wonderful site that provides you two different english translations and has a simple yet beautiful layout.