BhagatSingh

What Dally was talking about was changing facts to suit your own historical narrative.

For example, if someone believes that only people who have taken khande di pahul can be a sikh, then they will revise and edit and misrepresent history to show that all sikhs like Bhai Kanhaiya ji, etc took khande di pahul.

And they have done this, and many people including me have believed their shit at some point.

The shabad in the opening post of this thread is by Bhatts. That's the shabad I am referring to.

Regardless of what you believe. The meaning behind the story of Narad ji curse is the same. In Narad ji's religion Vishnu is considered as almighty Lord.
Again, regardless of what you believe. The meaning behind the story of Narad ji curse is the same. In Narad ji's religion Vishnu ji is considered as almighty Lord. And Maya is considered his wife.
Good question!
 
Whenever Brahma-Bishan-Mahadev, Brahma-Bishan-Mahesh are mentioned together, they are not referring to the Brahma ji, Vishnu ji and Mahadev ji individually.
It is referring to Brahma-Vishnu-Mahadev as a collective. Together.
This is actually quite complex and quite difficult to understand since it requires understanding a whole bunch of philosophies and texts. I'll try to give a brief synopsis.
 
So India had many many different philosophies that gave birth to countless religions.
In one philosophy, Brahma ji is almighty lord. In this philosophy, Brahma ji creates, preserves and destroys however, the followers talked about his creative trait a lot. He gives birth to the thousand petaled lotus that is a symbol of multi-layered reality, in which Brahma ji, parmatma, resides. The followers of this philosophy have all passed away.
In another philosophy, Vishnu ji is almighty lord. In this philosophy, Vishnu ji creates, preserves and destroys however, the followers talked about his preservative trait a lot. Like they talked about stories of Vishnu ji preserving Prahlaad's life, saving him from Hiranyakashap. He preserved the life of Gaj, elephant, who was ensnared by a crocodile. He preserved Dropadi's honour when she was lost in a gamble and was being molested by the winning party. Like that. Narad ji followed this philosophy.
In another philosophy, Shiv ji is almighty lord. In this philosophy, the destructive trait of the almighty lord is emphasized a lot. Shiv ji creates, preserves and destroys however, the followers emphasized his destructive trait. They talked about Shiv ji destroying things, like ignorance. There are old Nataraj moortis that show Shiv ji doing the tandav on a dwarf. The dwarf symbolizes ignorance and Nataraj is doing tandav (destructive dance), Shiv ji is destroying ignorance. Adi Shankar ji followed this philosophy.
 
So individually,  Brahma ji, Vishnu ji and Shiv ji capture the names and philosophies of almighty lord. Like the names - Allah, Yahweh, Waheguru.
However when mentioned together as Brahma-Vishnu-Mahesh, it is referring to the creative-preservative-destructive aspects of the almighty lord.
Maya is mother nature. So the creation, preservation and destruction happens according to mother nature's laws. However in these philosophies Maya is created by Vishnu ji.
ਬਿਸਨ ਕੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਭਿੰਨ ॥
Remain detached from Vishnu's Maya.
Ultimately Vishnu ji is above Maya and can bend her laws that he himself put in place. Bhagat Namdev ji talk about this in one of his shabads.
 
Bhagat Kabir ji is not exactly saying that the almighty lord is being deceived by maya. He is on one level being deceived by her by his own wish. But on another level he is the one who created her by his own wish.
Parmatma resides both inside (under the influence of) and outside (without the influence of) of maya.
So Bhagat ji is saying that with guru's grace one can get a glimpse of that aspect of almighty lord that dwells outside of maya, that aspect that is unaffected by maya.
 
So that's the philosophy of it.
 
Now
When you look inside, you see that your atma, which is parmatma, is being influenced by maya.
Maya is so powerful that is deludes you, and makes you think that things are concrete.
 
Have you ever looked at a table and touched it?
Knock on it.
You think it's concrete right?
It makes a sound, it bumps again the knuckle.
 
Feel it.
It's hard to the touch. It's solid.
This is because of maya. The table feels solid because your atma, which is parmatma, is under the influence of maya.
 
This hardness of the table is real. But it is not the ultimate reality. Meaning, it's not completely true that the table is hard.
 
Bhagat Kabir ji is saying that as you practice the teachings of the Guru. You will soon realize that "the table is not actually hard". In a nutshell... lol.
 
Listen to the child in this scene. He is symbolic of "guru" in this movie. With the guru's teachings, Neo realized that the spoon was not completely hard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAXtO5dMqEI
 
This movie was actually based on Indian philosophies. In the soundtracks they chant Omkar.
 
PS you don't have to use big red fonts to get my attention. You always have my full attention bro!
In fact, I like simple, small black fonts.

Lol roasting eggplant is not the same as roasting a chicken.
By plucking the eggplant off a plant, you didn't kill the plant, it can grow back. But when you roast a chicken, you killed the chicken.

And boiling an aloo/potatio and boiling an egg are not the same. When you boil an aloo you kill the plant. When you boil an egg you killed nothing.

He is right that certain plants are killed. But he is wrong that vegetarian diets only involve killing plants. He is ignoring the vast amount of nutrition that comes from plants that are still alive and grow back, and some plants that want you to eat parts of them.

In nature
- flowers encourage insects to consume their nectar to spread the pollen around
- that flower becomes fruit and produces proper seeds, trees encourage animals to feed on their fruit to spread the seed around through poop
- although plants discourage grazing of their leaves... it is only because of animal grazing that the environment can become suitable for plants to grow. Animals soften the soil by walking on it and add to the nutrient content of the soil by pooping on it. Animals carry certain seeds with them on their fur that they distribute far away from the parent plant

When you eat Fruits, certain vegetables and leaves, the Jeev is NOT killed. Let's be clear on this.

Our problems come from the fact that there are way too many of us. We destroy large habitats to make larges spaces for us to live. The largest destruction of land of animals and plants comes from us, through mere existence.

And there is no way to feed such a large population except through factory farming. Google some of these factory farm videos to see how horrible those conditions are.

Habitat destruction is a bigger issue. Controlling human population is the answer.

N30 I know where you are coming from however Gur Granth Sahib is pretty clear that one should not kill life. There are enough shabads that say this.
Bhagat Kabir says taking a life by force is Adharam. Any time a human, animal, insect or a plant is killed, we put suffering out there.

And yes I said plant. Many vegetarians forget that certain plants are killed for their nutrition. Like sugarcanes, carrots, onions, etc. But not all plants need to be killed for you to obtain nutrition and not all diets require killing.

Oh sarcasm is hard to detect on internet sometimes. Use "/s"

Drug companies are concerned with our well-being, that's why saving us from marijuana. /s

Marijuana is a miracle plant. Cures all kinds of diseases and ailments. This cancer thing is new tho. I will read it when I find some time.

Paapimaan's point is that - Explicit language does not mean that it is solely for "entertainment".
He is saying that there is explicit language in Gurbani yet the purpose is to explain something deeper.
And that this is also what Charitropakhyan is doing but instead of spiritual concepts, it covers wordly concepts.
Did I understand it correctly?
Indeed they won't so don't give them any attention. "What you resist persists"

Instead focus on discussion of material in Charitropakhyan and how it is relevant to  today's society.

Talk about the deeper meanings in Charitropakhyan and in what situations that story or message might be helpful.

Ps also that would create a space for people, who are not familiar with the material, to dig their hands into.

Great point paaji. One of the ways, one can do that is to listen to katha, while in sleeping posture. That might help, especially if you fully concentrate on the katha. Choose the katha according to your level. Don't listen to katha of advanced topics, which one cannot easily comprehend, as the mind will get a chance to wander again.
Some other tips which might help:
-  Avoid caffeinated drinks.
-  Try to maintain a regular/fixed schedule.
-  Hardcore physical workout.
-  Hardcore mental workout (puzzles, math problems, reading books, self-tests, etc).
-  Avoid sitting on computer/playing games/watching movies/listening to loud music before sleeping.
-  Self-hypnosis might help too.
-  Hot shower.
-  Warm milk.
-  Cold dark room (take blankets obviously -- be comfortable) -- make sure minimum light comes in.
-  Have a look a this - http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/living-with-insomnia-11/natural-solutions
-  Air purifiers.
-  Humidifiers or Dehumidifiers, depending on the situation.
-  You can try Baheda Churan.
Quote
Divya baheda churna is a very good natural remedy for the treatment of nervous disorders such as anxiety, insomnia, stress, depression, etc. Divya baheda churna provides natural nutrients to brain cells and prevents stress, insomnia, depression and anxiety. 
Unquote [1]
[1] - http://www.swamibabaramdevmedicines.com/divya-baheda-churna/
-  Most Important: Seek professional medical advice, if one sees no improvement after trying all the methods above.
Bhul chuk maaf

The medicine INDUSTRY is all about Money. Its not about curing people. They profit from sick people. More and more people are turning towards alternative medicine these years because they see and feel the benefits of natural medicine.

In fact its quite weird to call it "alternative medicine" when it has been used for thousands of years.... Modern medicine is the alternative medicine - it only has some 100 years of history behind it,.

I have gone through this. Here's what helped me-
 
Meditation
Mental Relaxation Physical Relaxation Guided Meditation (and even Holosync etc)  
ASMR Videos
Videos that arouse tingly sensations which lead to sleepiness  
Exercise
Daily Walks  
Good Diet
Lots of Veggies  
Use Bed for sleeping only
Take your laptop, books, etc elsewhere If you are in bed for longer than 30 minutes but haven't fallen asleep, GET UP and do some light activity for 15 minutes, then try again  
Only sleep once per day
avoid naps at all costs  
Spend lots of quality time with family
 
If the problem persists see a professional.

I have gone through this. Here's what helped me-
 
Meditation
Mental Relaxation Physical Relaxation Guided Meditation (and even Holosync etc)  
ASMR Videos
Videos that arouse tingly sensations which lead to sleepiness  
Exercise
Daily Walks  
Good Diet
Lots of Veggies  
Use Bed for sleeping only
Take your laptop, books, etc elsewhere If you are in bed for longer than 30 minutes but haven't fallen asleep, GET UP and do some light activity for 15 minutes, then try again  
Only sleep once per day
avoid naps at all costs  
Spend lots of quality time with family
 
If the problem persists see a professional.

I have gone through this. Here's what helped me-
 
Meditation
Mental Relaxation Physical Relaxation Guided Meditation (and even Holosync etc)  
ASMR Videos
Videos that arouse tingly sensations which lead to sleepiness  
Exercise
Daily Walks  
Good Diet
Lots of Veggies  
Use Bed for sleeping only
Take your laptop, books, etc elsewhere If you are in bed for longer than 30 minutes but haven't fallen asleep, GET UP and do some light activity for 15 minutes, then try again  
Only sleep once per day
avoid naps at all costs  
Spend lots of quality time with family
 
If the problem persists see a professional.

Paapiman is correct Bhagat Ramanand ji was Bhagat Kabeer ji's Guru (gurbani of both these bhagats is in SGGS).  Bhagat Kabeer ji tricked Bhagat Ramanand ji into giving him gurmantar because the later would not make a low-caste like Kabeer his disciple.
Bhagat Ramanand ji as part of his daily routine, used to go to the river Ganga in dark very early in the morning for bath.  Bhagat Kabeer ji decided to lie in Ramanand's path thinking that he will do whatever Ramanand ji says when he stumbles against his body.  The plan worked.  Ramanand ji didn't notice Bhagat Kabeer lying in the dark.  As soon as, Ramanand ji's foot touched Kabeer he realized that he has kicked a human being and he spontaneously uttered, "ਉਠ ਰਾਮ ਕੇ ਰਾਮ ਜਪੁ Meaning: Get up O God's child and remember God".  Bhagat Kabeer ji went home and started simran of the gurmantar "ਰਾਮ" and over time became a famous saint.  Ramanand ji found out that Kabeer is his disciple only after Bhagat Kabeer ji became famous.  This incident is described by Bhai Gurdas ji in Vaar 15:
ਹੋਇ ਬਿਰਕਤੁ ਬਨਾਰਸੀ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦੁ ਗੁਸਾਈਂ।
Hoi Birakatu Banaarasee Rahindaa Raamaanadu Gousaaeen.
Being detached from the world, Brahmin Ramanand lived in Varanasi (Kasi).
 
ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਵੇਲੇ ਉਠਿ ਕੈ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਗੰਗਾ ਨ੍ਹਾਵਣ ਤਾਈਂ।
Anmritu Vaylay Outdi Kai Jaandaa Gangaa Nhaavan Taaeen.
He would rise early in the morning and go to the Ganges to bathe.
 
ਅਗੋ ਹੀ ਦੇ ਜਾਇ ਕੈ ਲੰਮਾ ਪਿਆ ਕਬੀਰ ਤਿਥਾਈਂ।
Ago Hee Day Jaai Kai Lamaa Piaa Kabeer Tidaaeen.
Once even before Ramanand, Kabir went there and lay in the way.
 
ਪੈਰੀ ਟੁੰਬ ਉਠਾਲਿਆ ‘ਬੋਲਹੁ ਰਾਮ’ ਸਿਖ ਸਮਝਾਈ।
Pairee Tounbi Outdaaliaa Bolahu Raam Sikh Samajhaaee.
Touching with his feet Ramanand awakened Kabir and told him to speak ‘Ram’, the true spiritual teaching.
 
ਜਿਉ ਲੋਹਾ ਪਾਰਸੁ ਛੁਹੇ ਚੰਦਨ ਵਾਸੁ ਨਿੰਮੁ ਮਹਕਾਈ।
Jiu Lohaa Paarasu Chhuhay Chandan Vaasu Nimu Mahakaaee.
As the iron touched by philosopher’s stone becomes gold and the margosa tree (Azadirachta indica) is made fragrant by sandal.
 
ਪਸੂ ਪਰੇਤਹੁ ਦੇਵ ਕਰਿ ਪੂਰੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਦੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ।
Pasoo Paraytahu Dayv Kari Pooray Satigur Dee Vadiaaee.
The wondrous Guru turns even animals and ghosts into angels.
 
ਅਚਰਜ ਨੋ ਅਚਰਜੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੈ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਮਿਲਾਈ।
Acharaj No Acharaju Milai Visamaadai Visamaadu Milaaee.
Meeting the wonderous Guru the disciple wonderfully merges into the great wonderous Lord.
 
ਝਰਣਾ ਝਰਦਾ ਨਿਝਰਹੁੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅਘੜ ਘੜਾਈ।
Jharanaa Jharadaa Nijharahu Guramoukhi Baanee Agharh Gharhaaee.
Then from the Self springs a fountain and the words of the gurmukhs shape a beautiful form
 
     ਰਾਮ ਕਬੀਰੈ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਭਾਈ ॥੧੫॥
Raam Kabeerai Bhaydu N Bhaaee ॥15॥
Now Ram and Kabir became identical.
 
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Living in close communities was also a big factor in determining health and age.

You say that but plenty of bazoorags used to live to their 90s and even 100s in Panjab in my grandfathers time. 

Even now I'm aware it's there as taste sense is constantly active and aware. Going to get my doctor to run some blood tests just to rule out diabetes as sweet mouth and hair loss can sometimes be associated with this. I hope it's not relating to anything medical but best to just rule things out, after which just accept as grace and let whatever it is fulfill its purpose.
Pleased to read yesterday that Maskeen ji also experienced and documented it.
When I  questioned a few people about it they said accept it humbly and just swallow. Some got quite annoyed that I was complaining. Some abhiyasis make great efforts to experience it and because it came out of the blue relatively quickly to me I was seen to being unappreciative. In the early days I really struggled to cope and I told a mahapursh I can't handle it and I didn't want it anymore. After repeatedly being told to drink and me foolishly countering them with it's too sweet, there was a look of disgust and they said fine it will go away over time. I don't know what hurt me more, the disappointment they had in me for even complaining or maybe I didn't know what I was requesting. For months after that I lost it and it dawned on me that I had screwed up, but was relieved for a break from the sensation for a while. Over time I began to regret more and more that maybe in my ignorance I had put a road block in my own spiritual journey.
It came back again occasionally but never for long durations like before.
Lucky is spot on about it not always coming directly from simran but any focused religious task, like reading Gurbani or other religious texts.
After putting in some hard effort over a week ago its back and this time it is not showing any signs of stopping. Oh Balle Balle!!! Doing a little mental dance. Kind of pleased to have it back this time. Acts as a form of encouragement I'm moving again.

Good stuff guys!
I also think that there are more tastes of amrit....It starts with saas saas simran and then you get advanced one like Kabir jI's shabad that comes directly from higher chakras.
Gurbani mentions 36 different tastes
ਛਤੀਹ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭਾਉ ਏਕੁ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇਇ ॥੧॥
Cẖẖaṯīh amriṯ bẖā▫o ek jā ka▫o naḏar kare▫i. ||1||
The thirty-six flavors of ambrosial nectar are in the Love of the One Lord; they are tasted only by one who is blessed by His Glance of Grace.
The 2nd one (as mentioned above) ... is somewhat immediate, different  but not more intense....(you can't quantify it..it's not at all like saying -one is like one sugar spoon and the other is like 10 spoons)
It was Sat that told me about the jugtee of how to get the 2nd one by focusing dhyaan on naad and raising it high....
The key difference that I found was that
1) you actually had control, in the sense you could activate at will,.. once your consciousness and surti was elevated to that level..
there are many references in gurbani about drinking amrit, but if we look at this one, again by Guru Nanak ji...

ਊਪਰਿ  ਕੂਪੁ  ਗਗਨ  ਪਨਿਹਾਰੀ  ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ  ਪੀਵਣਹਾਰਾ  ॥
Ūpar kūp gagan panihārī amriṯ pīvaṇhārā.
The Well is high up in the Tenth Gate; the Ambrosial Nectar flows, and I drink it in
Doing a little deeper vichaar, it tells me that there is an amrit in a well,..which in context is saying there is a specifc spot where one can GO to and drink the amrit at will.
To me personally, this is reference to the jugtee briefly mentioned.
 
2) I also found that at times, all I had to do was just hear some gurbani or kirtan and then it would be immediate...To me, this was a major explanation of why gurbani is called 'Amrit Bani'...
I haven't been at that elevated level recently, but  we have to wash,, wash,,wash...wash.... our filth with that amrit.
Amrit is part of the journey and we all have that filth.... So go on Bhagat...get that washing !! lol......Prabh is blessing you with the opportunity.
When it happens,,...you definitely do start doubting yourself and thinking if it's just imagination.....I even got to a stage where I thought the tasting was happening every time I hear some music . so what I did was...listened to other music and to see if it activated or not...AND it didn't....ONLY with gurbani and gurmantar jap.
Therefore, my conclusion of ''amrit bani' was even stronger.
And for those on the forum that doubt dasam bani--->>Quite simply, you can ALL find out for yourself what bani is amrit bani and what is kachi.
 
 
 

Two words - Absolutely brilliant!

Yea Prof Sahib Singh got it wrong. He got a lot translations wrong.
The english translators copied him and that's why they got it wrong as well.
 
PS Bro it seems you can read punjabi.
Try reading the Freed Kote Teeka (from 1800s Punjab), I think it will be the next step for you.
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&fb=0&k=2

Right now I am in the mood to correct things. So in this 'Botched Translations of Guru Granth Sahib ji' series, I want to highlight shabads, poems from Guru Granth Sahib, that have been translated incorrectly, which give the reader the wrong impression about the belief system of the author or about the message in Guru Granth Sahib ji.

When I read the English translation of Guru Granth Sahib ji. I notice that there are certain mistakes embedded in these translations that are over-looked by most sikhs, who rely on them to make out the meaning of the shabad. These incorrect beliefs then become internalized and lead to incorrect understanding. The incorrect understanding is then propagated in real life and in online forums, it seeps into discussions and the mindset.
 
One of the shabads I see the most, is a botched translation of Sant Kabir ji's shabad, where Kabir ji talks about the importance of your approach to Naam Simran. Do you approach Naam Simran to get something? What is it that you want to get out of it? Bhagat Kabir ji talks about the correct approach to Bhagati. He highlights a distinction in two approaches - the approach of Saint and the approach of Miracle-worker, who may appear similar to those who are unfamiliar.


But what does the English Translation of this shabad say? Something completely unrelated. It is as I say, completely botched.

Botched Translations of Guru Granth Sahib ji  - Part 1
ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਨ ਮਹਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ॥
कबीर राम कहन महि भेदु है ता महि एकु बिचारु ॥
Kabīr rām kahan mėh bẖeḏ hai ṯā mėh ek bicẖār.
Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord's Name, 'Raam'. This is something to consider.
ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥
सोई रामु सभै कहहि सोई कउतकहार ॥१९०॥
So▫ī rām sabẖai kahėh so▫ī ka▫uṯakhār. ||190||
Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. ||190||
ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥
कबीर रामै राम कहु कहिबे माहि बिबेक ॥
Kabīr rāmai rām kaho kahibe māhi bibek.
Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction.
ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥
एकु अनेकहि मिलि गइआ एक समाना एक ॥१९१॥
Ėk anekėh mil ga▫i▫ā ek samānā ek. ||191||
One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. ||191||
 
Now just read the Gurmukhi -
 
ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਨ ਮਹਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ॥
कबीर राम कहन महि भेदु है ता महि एकु बिचारु ॥
Kabīr rām kahan mėh bẖeḏ hai ṯā mėh ek bicẖār.
ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥
सोई रामु सभै कहहि सोई कउतकहार ॥१९०॥
So▫ī rām sabẖai kahėh so▫ī ka▫uṯakhār. ||190||
ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥
कबीर रामै राम कहु कहिबे माहि बिबेक ॥
Kabīr rāmai rām kaho kahibe māhi bibek.
ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥
एकु अनेकहि मिलि गइआ एक समाना एक ॥१९१॥
Ėk anekėh mil ga▫i▫ā (verb) ek samānā ek (verb). ||191||
 


Notice these 3 things as you read the Gurmukhi.
1. It does not say "Son of Dashrath" anywhere in the Gurmukhi, nor is it implied.
2. It does not say "Only to speak of all-pervading lord" anywhere in the Gurmukhi, nor is it implied.
3. It does not say "pervading everywhere" or "contained only in himself" anywhere in the Gurmukhi, nor is it implied.

The English translation is mistranslated and is used to misrepresent this shabad.

This is not what Sant Kabir ji is talking about and these are not the views he holds. This is not what Guru Granth Sahib ji is talking about either, and this mistranslated  shabad is used to misrepresent the Guru.


So the big question -
What is this shabad actually talking about?
 
ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਨ ਮਹਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ॥
कबीर राम कहन महि भेदु है ता महि एकु बिचारु ॥
Kabīr rām kahan mėh bẖeḏ hai ṯā mėh ek bicẖār.
Kabir says there is a difference in how one says "Ram", let me share one thought.

So now he mentions Kautakahar. Kautakhar are those people who perform miracles to entertain. Kabir ji is saying -

ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥
सोई रामु सभै कहहि सोई कउतकहार ॥१९०॥
So▫ī rām sabẖai kahėh so▫ī ka▫uṯakhār. ||190||
All (saints) say "Ram" and so do the ka▫uṯakhār, those who perform miracles or entertain.
(i.e. the saints chant Ram because they have Prem/love for Ram. The kautakhar chant Ram to obtain ridhi sidhi, power to perform miracles, which they will show off. The latter have Prem for ridhi sidhi not Ram.)

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥
कबीर रामै राम कहु कहिबे माहि बिबेक ॥
Kabīr rāmai rām kaho kahibe māhi bibek.
Kabir says do say "Ram" but in saying it recognize this difference/ this thought (bibek).

The difference is in intention!
ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥
एकु अनेकहि मिलि गइआ एक समाना एक ॥१९१॥
Ėk anekėh mil ga▫i▫ā (verb) ek samānā ek (verb). ||191||
That one merged in the many, and the other one merged in the One.
"pervading everywhere" (noun) or "contained only in himself" (noun) are incorrect translations of these Verbs.
ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ - is a verb, it's the act of doing ie. merging
ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ - is a verb, it's an act of doing ie. merging
That those who were after the power to perform miracles merged with (verb) those powers, meaning they never achieved mukti. But those (saints) who were after Ram merged with Him, the One (verb).
They are both doing Bhagati but their intentions are worlds apart, this is what Kabir is talking about in this shabad. The bibek you need to have to do Bhagati matters as it ultimately determines what result you get.


Why does Bhagat Kabir ji feel the need to point this out?

Since both Saints and Miracle-Workers can do kautaks, miracles, to the unfamiliar eye it might appear that they are the same. To new student of meditation, it might appear that meditation should be done to achieve these miraculous powers. They might think that it is miraculous powers that makes one into a Saint.

Sant Kabir ji guides his sikhs and tells them. There is a difference that must be recognized. The Saints are into Naam Simran, meditation, for Ram. The miracle-workers, kautakhars, are into Naam Simran for Kautaks.

He says that those who are in it for Ram, merge with Ram, and those who are in it for miracles, merge with the many miracles.

Bhagat Kabir ji is encouraging his sikhs to be in it for Ram.

So you see now what Bhagat Kabir ji is talking about? He's talking about differences in goals and aims, differences in intentions and purpose. And this is absolutely clear if you just read the Gurmukhi.

Just let that sink in. Bhagat Kabir ji is talking about aims and intentions.
 

It doesn't say the word Saint in the Gurmukhi, either. Where are you getting that from?
As you can clearly see, I wrote it as "(saints)"; I put it in brackets in my translation.

So I know it doesn't say "saints" in the Gurmukhi.
However it really is talking about saints even though Kabir doesn't use the word "saint". This is because in the very last tuk, he says that these "people" merge into the One, into Ram. Since they merged into the One, they can be called saints. 

ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥
"That one have merged in the many, and one have merged in the One."
One has become engrossed in the many kautaks/miracles, and the other one has merged into the One. Since the other one merged into the one, he can be called a saint.

Again, Kabir ji's point is this -
We know that Saints can also do miracles. We know that Kautakhars can also do miracles.
So the naturally the question gets asked - Is there a difference? If so, what is the difference between the two groups?
The entire shabad addresses this question.
Kabir ji answers that the Saints meditate on Ram out of pure love. Where as Kautakhars, meditate on Ram to gain ability to show kautak. And this difference is important to recognize because it ultimately leads to those goals. It has to be kept in mind while chanting "Ram, Ram".
If your goal is to achieve powers, then that's all you will get (ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ) .
If your goal is to get Ram, then that's who you will get (ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ) .
So here's same translation using different words. I won't use the word saint in brackets and you'll see that the meaning is the same.

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਨ ਮਹਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ॥
Kabir says there is a distinction in saying "Ram", let me share this notion.

ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥
That "Ram" everyone chants, that "Ram" the ka▫uṯakhār also chant.
ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥
Kabir says definitely say "Ram, Ram" but in saying it recognize the distinction.

ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥
That one group, the kautakhars, has become engrossed in the many powers, and the other group has merged with the One (with Ram).
 
 
It says ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ. Doesn't ਰਾਮੈ mean "all-pervading"? Isn't it an adjective?
That wouldn't change the meaning I posted because that's what Ram means but when we are translating from Gurmukhi, we have to stick to the words.
ਰਾਮੈ is not an adjective.  ਰਾਮੈ is the same thing as ਰਾਮ. They are both the same name.

For example, Kabir ji says -
ਮੁਆ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਰਮਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮੈ ॥੫॥੧੫॥
I died meditating on "Shri Ram"

ਰਾਮੈ is the same thing as ਰਾਮ . In another example, Kabir ji says
ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਰਮਤ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੪॥
Chanting "Ram, Ram" one attains peace.
ਰਮਤ means to permeate ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ/Ram, Ram

ਰਾਮੈ is the same thing as ਰਾਮ
In this example, Guru Sahib says -
ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਰਾਮੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਬਸਾਈ ॥ ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਰਹੈ ਨ ਕਤਹੂੰ ਜਾਈ ॥੪॥
Through the Guru's teachings, those who have enshrined "Ram Naam" (the name of Ram) in their hearts, they becomes Asthir, permanent, ie they become free of births and deaths.

ਰਾਮੈ is the same thing as ਰਾਮ. Just like how ਨਾਮੈ is the same thing as ਨਾਮਾ (Namdev ji's nickname)
ਜਨ ਨਾਮੈ ਤਤੁ ਪਛਾਨਿਆ ॥੩॥੩॥
Servant Namdev (ਨਾਮੈ) has recognized reality.


So keep those examples in mind and read the tuk again -
ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥
Kabir ji says, do chant "Ram, Ram", and have this bibek while chanting.
 
 
But does Bhagat Kabir ji make any distinction between Ram and Ram in another shabad?

Bhagat Kabir ji makes absolutely no distinction. To Kabir ji they are the same.
Bhagat Kabir ji in his other shabads refers to Shri Ram, Son of Dashrath, as the Archer, Purushotam, the Leader of Raghu Dynasty, amongst His other epithets.
This is a big, multi-faceted discussion.

Kya baat hai!
She has a lot of deep knowledge of Vaishav philosophy.
Sat in my meditations I have had different insights into Hari's symbols. These were slightly different than hers but related. I might share them soon.
In the second video, she gave a small lesson in masculinity, by giving the example of Hari. I am doubly impressed!