BhagatSingh

Paapimaan's point is that - Explicit language does not mean that it is solely for "entertainment".
He is saying that there is explicit language in Gurbani yet the purpose is to explain something deeper.
And that this is also what Charitropakhyan is doing but instead of spiritual concepts, it covers wordly concepts.
Did I understand it correctly?
Indeed they won't so don't give them any attention. "What you resist persists"

Instead focus on discussion of material in Charitropakhyan and how it is relevant to  today's society.

Talk about the deeper meanings in Charitropakhyan and in what situations that story or message might be helpful.

Ps also that would create a space for people, who are not familiar with the material, to dig their hands into.

After reading that, Jodi Arias came to mind - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2321518/Jodi-Arias-GUILTY-degree-murder-stabbing-shooting-death-ex-boyfriend-Travis-Alexander.html

Killed her boyfriend in cold blood then claimed he abused her. Even though there was no evidence of that.

Criminal women seem to follow this pattern a lot. These women kill their partner off-guard, in their sleep or while they are in the bathroom, out of nowhere, and then they try to justify it in court, under self-defense or like the mom above claiming defense from sexual advance. Wtf...

Perhaps, the most famous case of cold blooded murder by a woman where the woman claimed it was self-defense and was then later celebrated as a heroine, is the case of Lorena Bobbitt.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/male-genital-mutilation-2/lorena-bobbitt-and-the-politics-of-hate-20th-anniversary-of-john-bobbitts-dismemberment/

Every dream means "do more Bhagti" lol.

Say it with me - "do more bhagti!"
If you get scared in a nightmare - do more bhagti
If you feel anxious - do more bhagti
If you feel depressed - do more bhagti
If you feel elated - do more bhagti

If you meet a partner - do more bhagti
If you meet a relative - do more bhagti
If you meet a dead relative - do more bhagti
If you visit a random place - do more bhagti

If you visit a holy place - do more bhagti
If you meet a holy man - do more bhagti
If you find yourself doing bhagti - do more bhagti
If you meet God - do more bhagti

After reading that, Jodi Arias came to mind - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2321518/Jodi-Arias-GUILTY-degree-murder-stabbing-shooting-death-ex-boyfriend-Travis-Alexander.html

Killed her boyfriend in cold blood then claimed he abused her. Even though there was no evidence of that.

Criminal women seem to follow this pattern a lot. These women kill their partner off-guard, in their sleep or while they are in the bathroom, out of nowhere, and then they try to justify it in court, under self-defense or like the mom above claiming defense from sexual advance. Wtf...

Perhaps, the most famous case of cold blooded murder by a woman where the woman claimed it was self-defense and was then later celebrated as a heroine, is the case of Lorena Bobbitt.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/male-genital-mutilation-2/lorena-bobbitt-and-the-politics-of-hate-20th-anniversary-of-john-bobbitts-dismemberment/

Paapimaan's point is that - Explicit language does not mean that it is solely for "entertainment".
He is saying that there is explicit language in Gurbani yet the purpose is to explain something deeper.
And that this is also what Charitropakhyan is doing but instead of spiritual concepts, it covers wordly concepts.
Did I understand it correctly?
Indeed they won't so don't give them any attention. "What you resist persists"

Instead focus on discussion of material in Charitropakhyan and how it is relevant to  today's society.

Talk about the deeper meanings in Charitropakhyan and in what situations that story or message might be helpful.

Ps also that would create a space for people, who are not familiar with the material, to dig their hands into.

Every dream means "do more Bhagti" lol.

Say it with me - "do more bhagti!"
If you get scared in a nightmare - do more bhagti
If you feel anxious - do more bhagti
If you feel depressed - do more bhagti
If you feel elated - do more bhagti

If you meet a partner - do more bhagti
If you meet a relative - do more bhagti
If you meet a dead relative - do more bhagti
If you visit a random place - do more bhagti

If you visit a holy place - do more bhagti
If you meet a holy man - do more bhagti
If you find yourself doing bhagti - do more bhagti
If you meet God - do more bhagti

Every dream means "do more Bhagti" lol.

Say it with me - "do more bhagti!"
If you get scared in a nightmare - do more bhagti
If you feel anxious - do more bhagti
If you feel depressed - do more bhagti
If you feel elated - do more bhagti

If you meet a partner - do more bhagti
If you meet a relative - do more bhagti
If you meet a dead relative - do more bhagti
If you visit a random place - do more bhagti

If you visit a holy place - do more bhagti
If you meet a holy man - do more bhagti
If you find yourself doing bhagti - do more bhagti
If you meet God - do more bhagti

Yea I think the word you are looking for both instances you described, is 'spontaneous'. Indeed I also find that this stuff is best when it happens spontaneously.
It's like nurturing a plant or an infant. When you provide them with proper nutrition, they display a need, you fulfill, and they grow up into healthy life forms spontaneously. Whatever happens is spontaneous and you just go with the flow.

I have been trying this one method out very recently.
It is essentially and purely - Dhun main dhyan dhyan main janeya
What I like about this technique, is that it is fully dhun-based. No words, only dhun. Different kinds of dhuns, different frequencies and such. And you literally Vibrate with the dhun. You can literally feel the body vibrate.

Check it out and see if you resonate with it. (pun intended :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIDTNt7MWl8

Ragmaala I agree that common usage is negative. I'm glad you are aware of that since that was the point I was trying to make. So cool... carry on I guess.

Just one thing before you do.
 

I think you are quite learned and I think you are probably aware of this, so this is more of a rant than anything...
when people read - "Veds cannot grasp God" - they think Gurbani rejects Veds completely.
when people read - "Rituals are useless" - they think Gurbani rejects rituals completely.

What is missing here is understanding of the full story.

What is the full story?
"Ved cannot grasp God... because nobody can! God cannot be grasped, He can only be tasted and that too by a consciousness, by your own individual, not by someone else's book or someone else's words."
"Rituals are useless... if God is not on your mind and in your heart, while you are doing the ritual."

So reading the full shabad you mentioned, Guru Arjun Dev ji says "Mantar tantar are like ashes... the real deal is getting God in your mind and heart"  ਅਉਖਧ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਤੰਤ ਸਭਿ ਛਾਰੁ ...  ਕਰਣੈਹਾਰੁ ਰਿਦੇ ਮਹਿ ਧਾਰੁ

Recognize the importance of having Parmatma in the ritual, without which the ritual is akin to ashes.

That's the full story.

Reincarnation as observed in humans-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prjhQcqiGQc
 

Ragmaala I agree that common usage is negative. I'm glad you are aware of that since that was the point I was trying to make. So cool... carry on I guess.

Just one thing before you do.
 

I think you are quite learned and I think you are probably aware of this, so this is more of a rant than anything...
when people read - "Veds cannot grasp God" - they think Gurbani rejects Veds completely.
when people read - "Rituals are useless" - they think Gurbani rejects rituals completely.

What is missing here is understanding of the full story.

What is the full story?
"Ved cannot grasp God... because nobody can! God cannot be grasped, He can only be tasted and that too by a consciousness, by your own individual, not by someone else's book or someone else's words."
"Rituals are useless... if God is not on your mind and in your heart, while you are doing the ritual."

So reading the full shabad you mentioned, Guru Arjun Dev ji says "Mantar tantar are like ashes... the real deal is getting God in your mind and heart"  ਅਉਖਧ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਤੰਤ ਸਭਿ ਛਾਰੁ ...  ਕਰਣੈਹਾਰੁ ਰਿਦੇ ਮਹਿ ਧਾਰੁ

Recognize the importance of having Parmatma in the ritual, without which the ritual is akin to ashes.

That's the full story.

Ragmaala I agree that common usage is negative. I'm glad you are aware of that since that was the point I was trying to make. So cool... carry on I guess.

Just one thing before you do.
 

I think you are quite learned and I think you are probably aware of this, so this is more of a rant than anything...
when people read - "Veds cannot grasp God" - they think Gurbani rejects Veds completely.
when people read - "Rituals are useless" - they think Gurbani rejects rituals completely.

What is missing here is understanding of the full story.

What is the full story?
"Ved cannot grasp God... because nobody can! God cannot be grasped, He can only be tasted and that too by a consciousness, by your own individual, not by someone else's book or someone else's words."
"Rituals are useless... if God is not on your mind and in your heart, while you are doing the ritual."

So reading the full shabad you mentioned, Guru Arjun Dev ji says "Mantar tantar are like ashes... the real deal is getting God in your mind and heart"  ਅਉਖਧ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਤੰਤ ਸਭਿ ਛਾਰੁ ...  ਕਰਣੈਹਾਰੁ ਰਿਦੇ ਮਹਿ ਧਾਰੁ

Recognize the importance of having Parmatma in the ritual, without which the ritual is akin to ashes.

That's the full story.

I don't why you equate jantar, tantar, mantar with dark forces.

Jantar - instrument
Tantar - method
Mantar - incantation

There is nothing inherently dark about those.

Not true. The sihari is an old form of grammar (used especially in poems because it can make rhyming and rhythm a lot easier). You cannot understand Guru Granth Sahib without understanding the rules of sihari and aonkarh.

The sihari and aokarh aren't just grammer either. They are actually pronounced.
E.g.
ਹਰਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਵਿ
Har Sat Kar Kav ☓
Hari Satye Kare Kavi ✓

Proper understanding of meaning comes from proper pronunciation and reading.
He is using both past and present. There's a word for that, which escapes me.

ਕਰਿ is ਕਰਿਹ in this sentence. And ਕਰਿਹ is old punjabi, in modern Punjabi it would be ਕਰ ਰਿਹਾ or in case of a respectful individual, elder - ਕਰ ਰਹੇ


So what would this sentence read like had it been written in modern punjabi as a statement (as opposed to a poem).

ਜਪੁ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਰਸਨੀਂ ਕਰਿ ਉਚਾਰੁ - old punjabi, poem
V
ਜਪੁ ਜੀ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਰਸਨੀਂ ਕਰ ਰਹੇ ਉਚਾਰ (ਰਸਨੀਂ is ਰਸਨਾ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ)
V
ਜਪੁ ਜੀ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੂੰ ਰਸਨਾ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ ਉਚਾਰ ਰਹੇ ਸਨ - modernpunjabi, sentence

Edit:
On second thought, It seems ਕਰਿ is ਕਰ ਕੇ in both sentences.

ਕਟੋਰਾਂ ਜਲ ਦਾ ਸੁਚੇਤ ਕਰਿ ਲੈ ਆਉ - old punjabi
V
ਜਲ ਦੇ ਕਟੋਰੇ ਨੂੰ ਸੁਚੇਤ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਲੈ ਆਉ - modern punjabi


ਜਪੁ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਰਸਨੀਂ ਕਰਿ ਉਚਾਰੁ - old punjabi, poem (ਉਚਾਰ ਕਰ ਕੇ  = ਉਚਾਰ ਕੇ)
V
ਜਪੁ ਜੀ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੂੰ ਰਸਨਾ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ ਉਚਾਰ ਕੇ (ਹਟੇ)  - modernpunjabi, sentence

Meaning remains the same either way -
ਜਪੁ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਰਸਨੀਂ ਕਰਿ ਉਚਾਰੁ | ਤਾਂ ਦੀਵਾਨ ਸਾਹਬ ਚੰਦ ਹਥ ਜੋੜ ਖਲੋਤਾ ਵਿਚ ਦਰਬਾਰ |
Then (Guru Sahib) recited the "Jap" and "Anand" (the prayers) out loud. Then Diwan Sahib Chand, who was standing in the court, with his hands folded,

ਕਹਿਆ ਗਰੀਬ ਨਿਵਾਜ਼ ਵਿਚ ਮਿੱਠਾ ਪਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਬਣੇ ਸੁਆਦ  |  ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ ਲੈ ਆਉ ਧਰਮ ਚੰਦ ਪਤਾਸੇ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦ |
requested "O Gareebniwaz (Guru Sahib), if there was sweetness then it would be tasty" . Then (Guru Sahib) said "Dharam Chand bring the Patashay Parshad (sugar chips).


So here's the modern punjabi version.
ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਜਪੁ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਉਚਾਰ ਕੇ ਧਰਮ ਚੰਦ ਨੂੰ ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ ਕੇ ਪਤਾਸ਼ੇ ਲੈ ਆਉ |

ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਜਪੁ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਉਚਾਰ ਕੇ, ਕਿਉਕਿ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਚੰਦ ਨੇ ਮਿੱਠਾ ਪਾਉਣ ਲਈ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਕੀਤੀ, ਧਰਮ ਚੰਦ ਨੂੰ ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ ਕੇ ਪਤਾਸ਼ੇ ਲੈ ਆਉ |

ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜਪੁ ਅਤੇ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਉਚਾਰ ਕੇ ਹਟੇ, ਤਾਂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਚੰਦ ਨੇ ਮਿੱਠਾ ਪਾਉਣ ਲਈ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਕੀਤੀ, ਫੇਰ ਓਹ੍ਨਾਂ ਨੇ ਧਰਮ ਚੰਦ ਨੂੰ ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ ਕੇ ਪਤਾਸ਼ੇ ਲੈ ਆਉ |

When you become focused single-mindedly on the Dhwani of the Jap then you let go of the Dhwani and focus on silence.

Try different things and you'll see where you get the best results.

Das just pwning shit with his posts!

you are on a roll man.

Chakka after chakka

Oh lol. I thought you missed my post the first time I asked.

Advaitists can. They say -  "You are already enlightened"

(that's a joke)

Sikhkhoj is it possible to reproduce some of these texts here?

Guys refrain from posting in the thread.

Let Amardeep and SikhKhoj duke it out themselves.

Post ONLY if
1. You have a question
2. You want clarity on something they said

I repeat let Amardeep and SikhKhoj debate. This thread was created specifically so they could debate each other.

A request to Amardeep and SikhKhoj. Please ignore anything that is not - 1. question, 2. request for clarity -  because otherwise it's gona be impossible to follow what you two are saying clearly.

All I want to say is that Das nuclear bombed this thread! (in a good way)
Holy crap! Wicked post dude!

 

12-14 hours! Holy!
Oh man!
that's it dude!
You are tying it tightly and for too long. Tight beard should be a several hours max!

My advice would be to spare the gel and the tying. And stick to open beard and lots of moisturizing to nurture the skin back to health.
I am not saying to stop tying forever, only temporarily. You have to stop in order to give the beard a rest, so it can grow back. Or to prevent other parts from going bald.

How do you tie your beard? your preferred method?

Yea it could be due to dryness. in which ^ above solutions sound good.
But in my experience with bald spots it has been due to tension or physical pressure.

If you itch or pull in that one area a lot. like while you are reading, if you continuously stroke that part of your beard or hair. Then you will develop a bald spot. The solution is then to not touch your beard or to stroke the entire beard rather than just 1 part.

Do you tie up your beard immediately after washing it?

How do you spell that in Gurmukhi?