BhagatSingh

Work in progress
Started July 25, 2015
Update Aug 4 - 21-30 + Pronunciation Guide
Update Aug 8 - 31-50
Source of Sanskrit - http://www.ashtangayoga.info/source-texts/yoga-sutra-patanjali/

Yog Sutr of Patanjali
योग सूत्रानि पतञ्जलि
ਯੋਗ ਸੁਤ੍ਰਾਨਿ ਪਤੰਜਲਿ
(ਯੋਗ) Enlightenment (ਸੁਤ੍ਰ) formula (ਆਨਿ) that comes from scholar (ਪਤੰਜਲਿ) Patanjali

ਗੁਰਮੁਖੀ ਪੜ੍ਹਨ ਲਈ ਅਤੇ ਅੰਗ੍ਰੇਜੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਅਰਥ
Gurmukhi Reading with English Translation


Pronounciation Guide
Beginner
ਃ - enunciate a pause (usually 'ah')
ਯ੍ਯ - extend the 'ye' sound to twice as long. This is a continuous 'double y'. E.g. ਵਿਪਰ੍ਯ੍ਯ - should be pronounced similar to Wiparwaya, rather than as Wiparya
ਘ ਭ ਧ ਢ ਝ - are all aspirated e.g. ਘ is "gh" rather than stressed "gg"
ਙ - read as "gy", this is for beginners

Advanced Reader
ਙ - is an "ngy" sound, takes a lot of practice to get right (sometimes written as "ng" or "nj". In the video below he writes "dny")
Pronunciation Video
ष - sometimes I write this simply as ਸ਼, sometimes as ਖਸ਼. The actual pronunciation is 'sh' that is uttered from the back of the mouth.  Normally we say 'sh' from the front of the mouth but try saying it from the back, it will sound much softer. That is ष , it sounds like it is halfway between ਖ and ਸ਼. Pronunciation Video

We don't have a letter for this sound in Punjabi. ਖ ਖ਼ ਸ਼  are all taken. I would prefer if we used ਛ਼ to represent ਸ਼ (a soft ਛ, these sounds which are often the same in some Punjabi dialects) and ਸ਼ to represent ष (softer ਛ, and even softer than ਛ਼, it's a soft version of ਸ).
The continuum starts from the front of the mouth and moves backwards - ਸ > ਛ > ਛ਼ > ਖ > ਸ਼ > ਖ਼  - snake > chair > share > care > ਮੋਸ਼ > ਖ਼ਰਗੋਸ਼


Chapter 1 - The Foundation of Samadhi
समाधिपाद
ਸਮਾਧਿਪਾਦ
(ਪਾਦ) Basis of (ਸਮਾਧਿ) meditation
अथ योगानुशासनम् ॥१॥
ਅਥ ਯੋਗਾਨੁਸ਼ਾਸਨਮ੍ [[੧]]
[[1]] (ਅਥ) Now! The (ਯੋਗਾਨੁਸ਼ਾਸਨਮ੍, ਯੋਗ ਅਨੁਸ਼ਾਸਨ) discipline and science of Yog -
योगश्चित्तवृत्तिनिरोधः ॥२॥
ਯੋਗਸ਼ਚਿੱਤਵ੍ਰੱਤਿਨਿਰੋਧਃ [[੨]]
[[2]] (ਯੋਗ) Enlightenment comes when the (ਵ੍ਰੱਤਿ) wandering of (ਸ਼ਚਿੱਤ) consciousness (ਨਿਰੋਧਃ) stops.
तदा द्रष्टुः स्वरूपेवस्थानम् ॥३॥
ਤਦਾ ਦ੍ਰਸ਼ਟੁਃ ਸ੍ਵਰੂਪੇਵਸਥਾਨਮ੍ [[੩]]
[[3]] (ਤਦਾ) Then (ਦ੍ਰਸ਼ਟੁਃ) consciousness (ਸਥਾਨਮ੍) comes to dwell in its (ਸ੍ਵਰੂਪੇਵ) own form.
वृत्ति सारूप्यमितरत्र ॥४॥
ਵ੍ਰੱਤਿ ਸਾਰੂਪ੍ਯਮਿਤਰਤ੍ਰ [[੪]]
[[4]] The (ਵ੍ਰੱਤਿ) wandering causes us to view (ਸਾਰੂਪ੍ਯਮਿਤਰਤ੍ਰ) other different forms.
वृत्तयः पञ्चतय्यः क्लिष्टाक्लिष्टाः ॥५॥
ਵ੍ਰੱਤਯਃ ਪੰਚਤਯ੍ਯਃ ਕਲਿਸ਼ਟਾਕਲਿਸ਼ਟਾਃ [[੫]]
[[5]] There are (ਪੰਚਤਯ੍ਯਃ) five main types of (ਵ੍ਰੱਤਯਃ) wandering that causes (ਕਲਿਸ਼ਟਾਕਲਿਸ਼ਟਾਃ, ਕਲੇਸ਼ ਕਲੇਸ਼) suffering upon suffering.
प्रमाण विपर्यय विकल्प निद्रा स्मृतयः ॥६॥
ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣ ਵਿਪਰ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਵਿਕਲਪ ਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ ਸਮ੍ਰਤਯਃ [[੬]]
[[6]] 1. (ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣ) Perception 2. (ਵਿਪਰ੍ਯ੍ਯ) Intellect 3. (ਵਿਕਲਪ) Imagination 4. (ਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ) Sleep 5. (ਸਮ੍ਰਤਯਃ) Memory
प्रत्यक्षानुमानागमाः प्रमाणानि ॥७॥
ਪ੍ਰਤਯਕਸ਼ਾਨੁਮਾਨਾਗਮਾਃ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣਾਨਿ [[੭]]
[[7]] (ਪ੍ਰਤਯਕਸ਼, ਪ੍ਰਤਖ) That which is in front of our eyes, (ਆਨੁਮਾਨ) estimate and (ਆਗਮਾਃ) derived knowledge, all (ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣਾਨਿ) come from perception.
विपर्ययो मिथ्याज्ञानमतद्रूप प्रतिष्ठम् ॥८॥
ਵਿਪਰ੍ਯ੍ਯੋ ਮਿਥਯਾਙਾਨਮਤਦ੍ਰੂਪ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਸ਼ਠਮ੍ [[੮]]
[[8]] (ਵਿਪਰ੍ਯ੍ਯੋ) Intellect is that (ਮਿਥਯਾ) mythical/idealized (ਙਾਨ) knowledge (ਤਦ੍ਰੂਪ) of various forms  (ਪ੍ਰਤਿਸ਼ਠਮ੍) that is eminent.
शब्दज्ञानानुपाती वस्तुशून्यो विकल्पः ॥९॥
ਸ਼ਬਦਙਾਨਾਨੁਪਾਤੀ ਵਸਤੁਸ਼ੂਨ੍ਯੋ ਵਿਕਲਪਃ [[੯]]
[[9]] Any (ਸ਼ਬਦ) word or (ਙਾਨ) knowledge that is (ਆਨੁਪਾਤੀ) consequent upon (ਵਸਤੁਸ਼ੂਨ੍ਯੋ) lack of objects is (ਵਿਕਲਪਃ) imagination.
अभावप्रत्ययालम्बना तमोवृत्तिर्निद्र ॥१०॥
ਅਭਾਵਪ੍ਰਤਯਯਾਲਮਬਨਾ ਤਮੋਵ੍ਰੱਤਿਰਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ [[੧੦]]
[[10]] (ਅਭਾਵ) lack of (ਪ੍ਰਤਯਯ) concepts that we (ਆਲਮਬਨਾ) support  there is (ਤਮੋ) darkness (ਵ੍ਰੱਤਿਰ) and wandering in (ਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ) sleep
अनुभूतविषयासंप्रमोषः स्मृतिः ॥११॥
ਅਨੁਭੂਤਵਿਖਸ਼ਯਾਸਂਪ੍ਰਮੋਖਸ਼ਃ ਸਮ੍ਰਤਿ [[੧੧]]
[[11]]
अभ्यासवैराग्याभ्यां तन्निरोधः ॥१२॥
ਅਭ੍ਯਾਸਵੈਰਾਗ੍ਯਾਭ੍ਯਾਂ ਤਨ੍ਨੀਰੋਧਃ [[੧੨]]
[[12]]
तत्र स्थितौ यत्नोभ्यासः ॥१३॥
ਤਤ੍ਰ ਸਥਿਤੌ ਯਤ੍ਨੋਭ੍ਯਾਸਃ [[੧੩]]
[[13]]

स तु दीर्घकाल नैरन्तर्य सत्कारादरासेवितो दृढभूमिः ॥१४॥
ਸ ਤੁ ਦੀਰਘਕਾਲ ਨੈਰਨਤਰਯ ਸਤਕਾਰਾਦਰਾਸੇਵਿਤੋ ਦ੍ਰਢਭੂਮਿਃ [[੧੪]]
[[14]]
दृष्टानुश्रविकविषयवितृष्णस्य वशीकारसंज्णा वैराग्यम् ॥१५॥
ਦ੍ਰਸ਼ਟਾਨੁਸ਼੍ਰਵਿਕਵਿਸ਼ਯਵਿਤੁਸ਼ਣਸ੍ਯ ਵਸ਼ੀਕਾਰਸਂਜਣਾ ਵੈਰਾਗ੍ਯਮ੍ [[੧੫]]
[[15]]
तत्परं पुरुषख्यातेः गुणवैतृष्ण्यम् ॥१६॥
ਤਤਪਰਂ ਪੁਰੁਸ਼ਖ੍ਯਾਤੇਃ ਗੁਣਵੈਤ੍ਰਸ਼ਣਯਮ੍ [[੧੬]]
[[16]]
वितर्कविचारानन्दास्मितारुपानुगमात्संप्रज्ञातः ॥१७॥
ਵਿਤਰਕਵਿਚਾਰਾਨੰਦਾਸਮਿਤਾਰੁਪਾਨੁਗਮਾਤਸਂਪ੍ਰਙਾਤਃ [[੧੭]]
[[17]]
विरामप्रत्ययाभ्यासपूर्वः संस्कारशेषोन्यः ॥१८॥
ਵਿਰਾਮਪ੍ਰਤ੍ਯਯਾਭ੍ਯਾਸਪੂਰਵਃ ਸੰਸਕਾਰਸ਼ੇਸ਼ੋਨ੍ਯਃ [[੧੮]]
[[18]]
भवप्रत्ययो विदेहप्रकृतिलयानम् ॥१९॥
ਭਵਪ੍ਰਤ੍ਯ੍ਯੋ ਵਿਦੇਹਪ੍ਰਕ੍ਰਤਿਲਯਾਨਾਮ੍ [[੧੯]]
[[19]]
श्रद्धावीर्यस्मृति समाधिप्रज्ञापूर्वक इतरेषाम् ॥२०॥
ਸ਼੍ਰੱਧਾਵੀਰਯੋਸਮ੍ਰਤਿ ਸਮਾਧਿਪ੍ਰਙਾਪੂਰਵਕ ਇਤਰੇਸ਼ਾਮ੍ [[੨੦]]
[[20]]
तीव्रसंवेगानामासन्नः ॥२१॥
ਤੀਵ੍ਰਸਂਵੇਗਾਨਾਮਾਸਨ੍ਨਃ [[੨੧]]
[[21]]
मृदुमध्याधिमात्रत्वात्ततोपि विशेषः ॥२२॥
ਮ੍ਰਦੁਮਦ੍ਯਾਧਿਮਾਤ੍ਰਤ੍ਵਾੱਤ੍ਤਤੋਪਿ ਵਿਸ਼ੇਸ਼ਃ [[੨੨]]
[[22]]
ईश्वरप्रणिधानाद्वा ॥२३॥
ਈਸ਼੍ਵਰਪ੍ਰਣਿਧਾਨਾਦ੍ਵਾ [[੨੩]]
[[23]]
क्लेश कर्म विपाकाशयैःपरामृष्टः पुरुषविशेष ईश्वरः ॥२४॥
ਕਲੇਸ਼ ਕਰਮ ਵਿਪਾਕਾਸ਼ਯੈਃ ਪਰਾਮ੍ਰਸ਼ਟਃ ਪੁਰੁਸ਼ਵਿਸ਼ੇਸ਼ ਈਸ਼੍ਵਰਃ [[੨੪]]
[[24]]
तत्र निरतिशयं सर्वज्ञबीजम् ॥२५॥
ਤਤ੍ਰ ਨਿਰਤਿਸ਼ਯਂ ਸਰਵਙਬਿਜਮ੍ [[੨੫]]
[[25]]
स एष पूर्वेषामपिगुरुः कालेनानवच्छेदात् ॥२६॥
ਸ ਏਸ਼ ਪੂਰਵਕਸ਼ਾਮਪਿਗੁਰੁਃ ਕਾਲੇਨਾਨਵੱਛੇਦਾਤ੍ [[੨੬]]
[[26]]
तस्य वाचकः प्रणवः ॥२७॥
ਤਸ੍ਯ ਵਾਚਕਃ ਪ੍ਰਣਵਃ [[੨੭]]
[[27]]
तज्जपः तदर्थभावनम् ॥२८॥
ਤੱਜਪਃ ਤਦਰਥਭਾਵਨਮ੍ [[੨੮]]
[[28]]
ततः प्रत्यक्चेतनाधिगमोप्यन्तरायाभवश्च ॥२९॥
ਤਤਃ ਪ੍ਰਤਯਕ੍ਚੇਤਨਾਧਿਗਮੋਪ੍ਯੰਤਰਾਯਾਭਵਸ਼੍ਚ [[੨੯]]
[[29]]
व्याधि स्त्यान संशय प्रमादालस्याविरति भ्रान्तिदर्शनालब्धभूमिकत्वानवस्थितत्वानि चित्तविक्षेपाः ते अन्तरायाः ॥३०॥
ਵ੍ਯਾਧਿ ਸਤ੍ਯਾਨ ਸਂਸ਼ਯ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਦਾਲਸ੍ਯਾਵਿਰਤਿ ਭ੍ਰਾਂਤਿਦਰਸ਼ਨਾਲਬਧਭੂਮਿਕਤ੍ਵਾਨਵਸਥਿਤਤਤ੍ਵਾਨਿ ਚਿੱਤਵਿਕਸ਼ੋਪਾਃ ਤੇ ਅੰਤਰਾਯਾਃ [[੩੦]]
[[30]]
दुःखदौर्मनस्याङ्गमेजयत्वश्वासप्रश्वासाः विक्षेप सहभुवः ॥३१॥
ਦੁਃਖਦੌਰਮਨਸ੍ਯਾਙਗਮੇਜਯਤ੍ਵਸ਼੍ਵਾਸਪ੍ਰਸ਼੍ਵਾਸਾਃ ਵਿਕਸ਼ੇਪ ਸਹਭੁਵਃ [[੩੧]]
[[31]]
तत्प्रतिषेधार्थमेकतत्त्वाभ्यासः ॥३२॥
ਤਤਪ੍ਰਤਿਸ਼ੇਧਾਰਥਮੇਕਤਤੱਵਾਭ੍ਯਾਸਃ [[੩੨]]
[[32]]
मैत्री करुणा मुदितोपेक्षाणांसुखदुःख पुण्यापुण्यविषयाणां भावनातः चित्तप्रसादनम् ॥३३॥
ਮੈਤ੍ਰੀ ਕਰੁਣਾ ਮੁਦਿਤੋਪੇਕਸ਼ਾਣਾਂਸੁਖਦੁਃਖ ਪੁਣ੍ਯਾਪੁਣ੍ਯਵਿਸ਼ੇਯਾਣਾਂ ਭਾਵਨਾਤਃ ਚਿੱਤਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਨਮ੍ [[੩੩]]
[[33]]
प्रच्छर्दनविधारणाभ्यां वा प्राणस्य ॥३४॥
ਪ੍ਰਛੱਰਦਨਵਿਧਾਰਣਾਭ੍ਯਾਂ ਵਾ ਪ੍ਰਾਣਸ੍ਯ [[੩੪]]
[[34]]
विषयवती वा प्रवृत्तिरुत्पन्ना मनसः स्थिति निबन्धिनी ॥३५॥
ਵਿਸ਼ਯਵਤੀ ਵਾ ਪ੍ਰਵ੍ਰੱਤਿਰੁਤਪੰਨਾ ਮਨਸਃ ਸਥਿਤਿ ਨਿਬੰਧਿਨੀ [[੩੫]]
[[35]]
विशोका वा ज्योतिष्मती ॥३६॥
ਵਿਸ਼ੋਕਾ ਵਾ ਜ੍ਯੋਤਿਸ਼ਮਤੀ [[੩੬]]
[[36]]
वीतराग विषयम् वा चित्तम् ॥३७॥
ਵੀਤਰਾਗ ਵਿਸ਼ਯਾਮ੍ ਵਾ ਚਿੱਤਮ੍ [[੩੭]]
[[37]]
स्वप्ननिद्रा ज्ञानालम्बनम् वा ॥३८॥
ਸ੍ਵਪ੍ਨਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ ਙਾਨਾਲਮਬਨਮ੍ ਵਾ [[੩੮]]
[[38]]
यथाभिमतध्यानाद्वा ॥३९॥
ਯਥਾਭਿਮਤਧ੍ਯਾਨਾਦ੍ਵਾ [[੩੯]]
[[39]]
परमाणु परममहत्त्वान्तोस्य वशीकारः ॥४०॥
ਪਰਮਾਣੁ ਪਰਮਮਹੱਤ੍ਵਾੰਤੋਸ੍ਯ ਵਸ਼ੀਕਾਰਃ [[੪੦]]
[[40]]
क्षीणवृत्तेरभिजातस्येव मणेर्ग्रहीतृग्रहणग्राह्येषु तत्स्थतदञ्जनता समापत्तिः ॥४१॥
ਕਸ਼ੀਣਵ੍ਰੱਤੇਰਭਿਜਾਤਸ੍ਯੇਵ ਮਣੇਰਗ੍ਰਹੀਤ੍ਰਗ੍ਰਹਣਗ੍ਰਾਹ੍ਯੇਸ਼ੁ ਤਤਸਥਤਦੰਜਨਤਾ ਸਮਾਪੱਤੀਃ [[੪੧]]
[[41]]
तत्र शब्दार्थज्ञानविकल्पैः संकीर्णा सवितर्का समापत्तिः ॥४२॥
ਤਤ੍ਰ ਸ਼ਬਦਾਰਥਙਾਨਵਿਕਲਪੈਃ ਸੰਕੀਰਣਾ ਸਵਿਤਰਕਾ ਸਮਾਪੱਤੀਃ [[੪੨]]
[[42]]
स्मृतिपरिशुद्धौ स्वरूपशून्येवार्थमात्रनिर्भासा निर्वितर्का ॥४३॥
ਸਮ੍ਰਤਿਪਰਿਸ਼ੁੱਧੌ ਸ੍ਵਰੂਪਸ਼ੂਨ੍ਯੋਵਾਰਥਮਾਤ੍ਰਨਿਰਭਾਸਾ ਨਿਰਵਿਤਰਕਾ [[੪੩]]
[[43]]
एतयैव सविचारा निर्विचारा च सूक्ष्मविषय व्याख्याता ॥४४॥
ਏਤਯੈਵ ਸਵਿਚਾਰਾ ਨਿਰਵਿਚਾਰਾ ਚ ਸੂਕਸ਼ਮਵਿਸ਼ਯ ਵ੍ਯਾਖ੍ਯਾਤਾ [[੪੪]]
[[44]]
सूक्ष्मविषयत्वम्चालिण्ग पर्यवसानम् ॥४५॥
ਸੂਕਸ਼ਮਵਿਸ਼ਯਤ੍ਵਮਚਾਲਿੰਗ ਪਰਵਸਾਨਮ੍ [[੪੫]]
[[45]]
ता एव सबीजस्समाधिः ॥४६॥
ਤਾ ਏਵ ਸਬੀਜੱਸਮਾਧਿਃ [[੪੬]]
[[46]]
निर्विचारवैशारद्येध्यात्मप्रसादः ॥४७॥
ਨਿਰਵਿਚਾਰਵੈਸ਼ਾਰਧ੍ਯੇਧ੍ਯਾਤਮਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਃ [[੪੭]]
[[47]]
ऋतंभरा तत्र प्रज्ञा ॥४८॥
ਰ੍ਰੀਨੰਬਰਾ ਤਤ੍ਰ ਪ੍ਰਙਾ [[੪੮]]
[[48]]
श्रुतानुमानप्रज्ञाभ्यामन्यविषया विशेषार्थत्वात् ॥४९॥
ਸ਼੍ਰੁਤਾਨੁਮਾਨਪ੍ਰਙਾਭ੍ਯਾਮਨ੍ਯਵਿਸ਼ਯਾ ਵਿਸ਼ੇਸ਼ਾਰਥਤ੍ਵਾਤ੍ [[੪੮]]
[[49]]
तज्जस्संस्कारोन्यसंस्कार प्रतिबन्धी ॥५०॥
ਤੱਜੱਸਸੰਸਕਾਰੋਨ੍ਯਸੰਸਕਾਰ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਬੰਧੀ [[੫੦]]
[[50]]
तस्यापि निरोधे सर्वनिरोधान्निर्बीजः समाधिः ॥५१॥
ਤਸ੍ਯਾਪਿ ਨਿਰੋਧੇ ਸਰਵਨਿਰੋਧਾਨ੍ਨ੍ਨਿਰਬੀਜਃ ਸਮਾਧਿਃ [[੫੧]]
[[51]]
 
 

If women make this about themselves and started taking it personally, rather than as something men are trying to work out amongst themselves... then of course there will be a storm.
If you cannot give men their space to resolve issues they have and say what they feel without fear of judgement then you are simply being incredibly intrusive and rude.

Guys refrain from posting in the thread.

Let Amardeep and SikhKhoj duke it out themselves.

Post ONLY if
1. You have a question
2. You want clarity on something they said

I repeat let Amardeep and SikhKhoj debate. This thread was created specifically so they could debate each other.

A request to Amardeep and SikhKhoj. Please ignore anything that is not - 1. question, 2. request for clarity -  because otherwise it's gona be impossible to follow what you two are saying clearly.

There is only one Ishvar in Guru Granth Sahib and that is Shri Hari.

Thanks for the support. Much appreciated. Hopefully we get to interact more and gain more knowledge from each other.
 
Would love to read it.

Well you are one of us so... ;)
 
That be great if you got both of those bits. 1. 36 scribes 2. 52 poets
 
Well I am questioning the poet part hence why I put forward my "Commission Theory". My theory is that Guru Gobind Singh ji commissioned these works. Because if he commissioned these works, then it would make sense with a lot of other things I know. And if Guru Sahib commissioned it himself, then it would be easy for Bhai Mani Singh et al to mistake that he wrote it.
 
I have never seen it come up in Guru Granth sahib or Dasam Granth like that.
The word they use for poet is
ਕਵਿ ਕਲ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਠਕੁਰ ਹਰਦਾਸ ਤਨੇ ਗੁਰ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਸਰ ਅਭਰ ਭਰੇ ॥੧॥
Kalya the (ਕਵਿ) poet, wrote this shabad.

(Now he is just a court poet whose words are considered sacred. His bani is thus recorded in Guru Granth Sahib.)

 
The way I am reading it is that is talks about similarities of production, hence why they are "brothers". The production was a mirror image. If I could do column by column in the forum, I would, but I can't, so I'll do row by row.

ਗੁਰੂ ਅਰਜਨ ਜੀ ਕੇ ਧਾਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜਨਮੁ ਹੈ ਧਾਰਾ ।
In Guru Arjun Dev ji's house the Granth Sahib took birth.

ਛੋਟਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ, ਜਨਮੇ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਕੇ ਧਾਮ ।
In Dasam Pita's house the other Granth was born.

ਦਾਇਆ ਸੀ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ, ਲਿਖਾਰੀ ਖਿਡਾਵਣਹਾਰਾ ।੨੬੬।
The scribe  was Bhai Gurdas ji.

ਸੰਮਤੁ ਸਤਾਰਾਂ ਸੈ ਪਚਵੰਜਾ, ਬਹੁਤ ਖਿਡਾਵੇ-ਲਿਖਾਰੇ ਨਾਮ ।
The scribes were many.

 
That bit was clear in your last post. That's what I was responding to.

 
That's why I am saying he is mistaken. He is ignoring the internal authors, Ram, Shyam, Kaal, etc, and putting Mehla 10 where it does not belong.
 
Right because it would be difficult to do all those jobs together.
Being a warrior and king and a guru was also a full time profession. Guru Hari Gobind ji didn't write much poetry, neither did Guru Hari Rai ji. They were both warrior-king and Gurus.
Guru Tegh Bahadur ji gave up warriorhood and kingship to make time for bhagti.

But when it comes to Guru Gobind Singh ji, we say he was a warrior and a king and a guru and a scribe and a calligrapher and a poet and an inventor of instruments and a musician... huh????
My father firmly believed that Guru Sahib wrote Dasam Granth. One day I asked him then about this exactly. He said to me if Guru Gobind Singh wrote all that bani, with all the wars he was fighting, with his young age, he would have been working 24/7, with no sleep in order to do all of that.
That's why I have the doubts that I have. But if my "Commission Theory" is true. Then Guru Gobind Singh ji was exactly like his Grandfather, Guru Hari Gobind ji. They both only lived till 40ish. They were both warrior, king and guru. They both had time left to sleep, chill with family, to listen to kirtan, dhadi etc.

Under that theory, Guru Gobind Singh ji commissioned other people -
1. to write poetry, some of which is collected in Dasam Granth
2. to translate Puranas and other sanskrit texts,
3. to make copies of Puranas and Guru Granth Sahib 
4. spread these texts out to various centers, to spread the knowledge
5. to play music in his court
6. to make instruments like the peacock version of dilruba
7. to make works of art for Guru Sahib's own painting collection
 
Right. I get that that they think it's by Guru Gobind Singh ji. That's what I am replying to in my post. So when Guru Sahib refused, they didn't understand why. Since they did not understand the reason, they could be very well be mistaken about the authorship as well.

 
Well having spent 20+ years with Grru Shaib, they still don't know the contents of teh Granths. They think Dasam Granth about avtar leela and the other isn't. If they can be mistaken about the contents then they could be mistaken about the authors. Those go hand-in-hand.

--

(I could be mistaken about this below, of course. Because I don't actually know. So I am just postulating alternative theories because I have doubts about certain things.)

--

If you are a contemporary of Guru sahib and you  hear that Guru Sahib is working on a granth. Even if Guru Sahib may only be commissioning it, it would appear to you that he maybe composing it himself.
Why?

One possibility -
Because the previous warrior-kings did not commission any granths. The only Guru who did was himself a poet, Guru Arjun. So you think the new Guru might also be like that.
 
Another possibility -
Who would want to pay attention to some random court poets?
This is why Guru Arjun Dev ji added them to the Guru Granth Sahib, to give them the credit and admiration they deserved. They were added to a Granth full of famous people. Guru Nanak Dev ji, Sant Nam Dev ji, Sant Kabir Das ji were all BIG names in people's minds when Guru Arjun Dev ji was compiling the granth.
So a granth full of court poets wasn't going to be popular when it came to 1700s. Just look at the other Granths you mention (e.g. Prem Ambodh Granth). Those aren't popular. I hadn't even heard about that. And I doubt people back then had either.
 
Also think about this -
Suppose.... Just imagine that one day  Bhai Mani Singh ji has doubts of the authorship. He knows Guru Sahib was working on this granth but he doesn't know whether or not he wrote it. So he starts asking around. He then finds and meet the poets who contributed to the granths. When he meets these poets, they are only too happy to attribute their writings to Guru Sahib so that they may get more eyes on them. They know their work might not gain value otherwise. And their internal signatures are already in place, once people start reading.
I mean these poets are clearly gyani folks. Their is tons of spiritual wisdom oozing from their writings, but if you don't read their stuff, you wouldn't even know about them.

Watch how this guy talks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9bNF_F076U
 
Just throwing those possibilities out there. Let me know if something sticks.

Why am I thinking of all this?
Because of my doubts about Dasam Granth being the work of a single person.

My doubt primarily stems from this -
1. the many different internal signatures - Ram, Shyam, Kaal, etc - of different banis
2. The difference in belief systems across banis (the different writings appear to be written by different poets from different backgrounds in religion)

Compare this to Guru Granth Sahib
1. there are many different internal signatures - Nanak, Namdev, Kabir
2. The belief system of all contributors is the same, with the exception of Sheikh Farid (whose bani is accompanied by Guru Amar Das ji's commentary) and maaaaybe Mardana (who has very little contributions so it's hard to tell what his belief system is)
 
Tell me more about that.
I want to see how much you already know so I can fill you in on the parts you might not know.

Thanks for the support. Much appreciated. Hopefully we get to interact more and gain more knowledge from each other.
 
Would love to read it.

Well you are one of us so... ;)
 
That be great if you got both of those bits. 1. 36 scribes 2. 52 poets
 
Well I am questioning the poet part hence why I put forward my "Commission Theory". My theory is that Guru Gobind Singh ji commissioned these works. Because if he commissioned these works, then it would make sense with a lot of other things I know. And if Guru Sahib commissioned it himself, then it would be easy for Bhai Mani Singh et al to mistake that he wrote it.
 
I have never seen it come up in Guru Granth sahib or Dasam Granth like that.
The word they use for poet is
ਕਵਿ ਕਲ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਠਕੁਰ ਹਰਦਾਸ ਤਨੇ ਗੁਰ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਸਰ ਅਭਰ ਭਰੇ ॥੧॥
Kalya the (ਕਵਿ) poet, wrote this shabad.

(Now he is just a court poet whose words are considered sacred. His bani is thus recorded in Guru Granth Sahib.)

 
The way I am reading it is that is talks about similarities of production, hence why they are "brothers". The production was a mirror image. If I could do column by column in the forum, I would, but I can't, so I'll do row by row.

ਗੁਰੂ ਅਰਜਨ ਜੀ ਕੇ ਧਾਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜਨਮੁ ਹੈ ਧਾਰਾ ।
In Guru Arjun Dev ji's house the Granth Sahib took birth.

ਛੋਟਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ, ਜਨਮੇ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਕੇ ਧਾਮ ।
In Dasam Pita's house the other Granth was born.

ਦਾਇਆ ਸੀ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ, ਲਿਖਾਰੀ ਖਿਡਾਵਣਹਾਰਾ ।੨੬੬।
The scribe  was Bhai Gurdas ji.

ਸੰਮਤੁ ਸਤਾਰਾਂ ਸੈ ਪਚਵੰਜਾ, ਬਹੁਤ ਖਿਡਾਵੇ-ਲਿਖਾਰੇ ਨਾਮ ।
The scribes were many.

 
That bit was clear in your last post. That's what I was responding to.

 
That's why I am saying he is mistaken. He is ignoring the internal authors, Ram, Shyam, Kaal, etc, and putting Mehla 10 where it does not belong.
 
Right because it would be difficult to do all those jobs together.
Being a warrior and king and a guru was also a full time profession. Guru Hari Gobind ji didn't write much poetry, neither did Guru Hari Rai ji. They were both warrior-king and Gurus.
Guru Tegh Bahadur ji gave up warriorhood and kingship to make time for bhagti.

But when it comes to Guru Gobind Singh ji, we say he was a warrior and a king and a guru and a scribe and a calligrapher and a poet and an inventor of instruments and a musician... huh????
My father firmly believed that Guru Sahib wrote Dasam Granth. One day I asked him then about this exactly. He said to me if Guru Gobind Singh wrote all that bani, with all the wars he was fighting, with his young age, he would have been working 24/7, with no sleep in order to do all of that.
That's why I have the doubts that I have. But if my "Commission Theory" is true. Then Guru Gobind Singh ji was exactly like his Grandfather, Guru Hari Gobind ji. They both only lived till 40ish. They were both warrior, king and guru. They both had time left to sleep, chill with family, to listen to kirtan, dhadi etc.

Under that theory, Guru Gobind Singh ji commissioned other people -
1. to write poetry, some of which is collected in Dasam Granth
2. to translate Puranas and other sanskrit texts,
3. to make copies of Puranas and Guru Granth Sahib 
4. spread these texts out to various centers, to spread the knowledge
5. to play music in his court
6. to make instruments like the peacock version of dilruba
7. to make works of art for Guru Sahib's own painting collection
 
Right. I get that that they think it's by Guru Gobind Singh ji. That's what I am replying to in my post. So when Guru Sahib refused, they didn't understand why. Since they did not understand the reason, they could be very well be mistaken about the authorship as well.

 
Well having spent 20+ years with Grru Shaib, they still don't know the contents of teh Granths. They think Dasam Granth about avtar leela and the other isn't. If they can be mistaken about the contents then they could be mistaken about the authors. Those go hand-in-hand.

--

(I could be mistaken about this below, of course. Because I don't actually know. So I am just postulating alternative theories because I have doubts about certain things.)

--

If you are a contemporary of Guru sahib and you  hear that Guru Sahib is working on a granth. Even if Guru Sahib may only be commissioning it, it would appear to you that he maybe composing it himself.
Why?

One possibility -
Because the previous warrior-kings did not commission any granths. The only Guru who did was himself a poet, Guru Arjun. So you think the new Guru might also be like that.
 
Another possibility -
Who would want to pay attention to some random court poets?
This is why Guru Arjun Dev ji added them to the Guru Granth Sahib, to give them the credit and admiration they deserved. They were added to a Granth full of famous people. Guru Nanak Dev ji, Sant Nam Dev ji, Sant Kabir Das ji were all BIG names in people's minds when Guru Arjun Dev ji was compiling the granth.
So a granth full of court poets wasn't going to be popular when it came to 1700s. Just look at the other Granths you mention (e.g. Prem Ambodh Granth). Those aren't popular. I hadn't even heard about that. And I doubt people back then had either.
 
Also think about this -
Suppose.... Just imagine that one day  Bhai Mani Singh ji has doubts of the authorship. He knows Guru Sahib was working on this granth but he doesn't know whether or not he wrote it. So he starts asking around. He then finds and meet the poets who contributed to the granths. When he meets these poets, they are only too happy to attribute their writings to Guru Sahib so that they may get more eyes on them. They know their work might not gain value otherwise. And their internal signatures are already in place, once people start reading.
I mean these poets are clearly gyani folks. Their is tons of spiritual wisdom oozing from their writings, but if you don't read their stuff, you wouldn't even know about them.

Watch how this guy talks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9bNF_F076U
 
Just throwing those possibilities out there. Let me know if something sticks.

Why am I thinking of all this?
Because of my doubts about Dasam Granth being the work of a single person.

My doubt primarily stems from this -
1. the many different internal signatures - Ram, Shyam, Kaal, etc - of different banis
2. The difference in belief systems across banis (the different writings appear to be written by different poets from different backgrounds in religion)

Compare this to Guru Granth Sahib
1. there are many different internal signatures - Nanak, Namdev, Kabir
2. The belief system of all contributors is the same, with the exception of Sheikh Farid (whose bani is accompanied by Guru Amar Das ji's commentary) and maaaaybe Mardana (who has very little contributions so it's hard to tell what his belief system is)
 
Tell me more about that.
I want to see how much you already know so I can fill you in on the parts you might not know.

Amardeep
Is this the bit from Bansavalinama? I found this on Manglacharan.com
 
ਸੁਣੋ ਭਾਈ ਸਿਖੋ । ਐਸਾ ਸੰਤ ਬਾਬਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੁ ਜਾਨੋ । ਦਸੇ ਮਹਲ ਇਕ ਬਾਬਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਜੀ ਪਛਾਨੋ ।
Listen Sikh Brothers! Recognize Baba Nanak as a true Saint, this is truth. In the ten forms [10 Guru's], recognize Baba Nanak in all of them.
ਦਸਵਾਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਗੱਦੀ ਗੁਰਿਆਈ ਦੀ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੂੰ ਦੇ ਹੈ ਗਿਆ ।
The tenth King has given the Guruship to the Granth Sahib.
ਬਿਨਾਂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਕੋਈ ਹੋਰ ਨ ਜਾਣੇ, ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਹੈਨਿ ਦੁਇ ਸਕੇ ਭਾਈ ।
Without the Granth there is nothing else, the Granth Sahib has it's form in two brothers.
-quote
This last tuk, doesn't seem to be a quote from Guru Gobind Singh ji. It seems that the author is saying this himself, it is his personal view.
 
ਇਕ ਹੈ ਵਡਾ ਇਕ ਛੋਟਾ ਕਹਾਈ ।੨੬੫।
[Recognize] One as larger [brother, which is Adi Granth] and one as smaller [brother, Dasam Granth].
ਸੰਮਤੁ ਸੋਲ੍ਹਾ ਸੈ ਅਠਵੰਜਾ ਸੇ ਗਏ । ਤਬ ਆਦਿ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜਿ ਜਨਮੁ ਲਏ ।
In 1658 Bikrami the Adi Granth took birth [was created].
ਗੁਰੂ ਅਰਜਨ ਜੀ ਕੇ ਧਾਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜਨਮੁ ਹੈ ਧਾਰਾ ।
In the house of Guru Arjan Dev Ji the Granth Sahib took its birth.
ਦਾਇਆ ਸੀ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ, ਲਿਖਾਰੀ ਖਿਡਾਵਣਹਾਰਾ ।੨੬੬।
Bhai Gurdas, with the blessings [of Guru Arjan], was the scribe.
-quote

It doesn't say blessing of Guru Arjun Dev ji in the line. It simply says.
ਦਾਇਆ ਸੀ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ, ਲਿਖਾਰੀ ਖਿਡਾਵਣਹਾਰਾ ।੨੬੬।
The (ਦਾਇਆ ) caretaker, (ਲਿਖਾਰੀ) writer, (ਖਿਡਾਵਣਹਾਰਾ) one who "plays" with it, was Bhai Gurdas ji.

Clearly the writer of Guru Granth Sahib is Bhai Gurdas ji.

This next bit is interesting, especially for me, as I am interested in seeing internal evidence of authorship.
 
ਛੋਟਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ, ਜਨਮੇ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਕੇ ਧਾਮ ।
The smaller [brother] Granth, took birth in the Tenth King's house.
ਸੰਮਤੁ ਸਤਾਰਾਂ ਸੈ ਪਚਵੰਜਾ, ਬਹੁਤ ਖਿਡਾਵੇ-ਲਿਖਾਰੇ ਨਾਮ ।
In 1755 Bikrami [it was born], [Guru Ji wrote it] under many names [Das Gobind, Syaam, Ram, Kaal etc].
ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੂੰ ਸੀ ਪਿਆਰਾ । ਹੱਥੀ ਲਿਖਿਆ, ਖਿਡਾਇਆ ।
[Guru Gobind Singh] Sahib had much love for this scripture, He himself hand wrote it.
-quote

Manglacharan is loading up their interpretation onto the gurmukhi. Let me try to unload it and see what the Gurmukhi is stating.

So it say ਛੋਟਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ, ਜਨਮੇ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਕੇ ਧਾਮ ।
The small Granth ji was born from the house of Dasam Pita.

Now this by itself could mean Guru Sahib commissioned Dasam Granth. This is the view I currently hold that Guru Sahib had many poets in his house - Shyam, Ram, Kal, etc. The internal signature of poets points to the "Commission Theory".

Next he says -
ਸੰਮਤੁ ਸਤਾਰਾਂ ਸੈ ਪਚਵੰਜਾ, ਬਹੁਤ ਖਿਡਾਵੇ-ਲਿਖਾਰੇ ਨਾਮ ।
In 1755, there are many (ਖਿਡਾਵੇ-) who "play" with it, many (ਲਿਖਾਰੇ)writers' names.

He says there are "many internal signatures" -> leads to my "Commission Theory".

next -
ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੂੰ ਸੀ ਪਿਆਰਾ । ਹੱਥੀ ਲਿਖਿਆ, ਖਿਡਾਇਆ ।
Guru Sahib was very fond of it. It was hand-written.
1. It doesn't exactly say Guru Sahib wrote it by hand like how it clearly says that Bhai Gurdas ji wrote Guru Granth Sahib by hand.
And even if he did, the internal authors are - Shyam, Ram, Kal, etc. which leads to 2.

2. Bhai Gurdas ji wrote Guru Granth Sahib by hand however the internal authors are - Nanak, Namdev, Kabir, etc. So writing by hand doesn't mean you are the composer of the banis. It could simply mean that you are the scribe.

Something to think about.
 
ਸਿਖਾਂ ਕੀਤੀ ਅਰਦਾਸੁ, ਜੀ ਅਗਲੇ ਨਾਲਿ ਚਾਹੀਏ ਰਲਾਇਆ ।੨੬੭।
Sikhs did a plea [towards Guru Gobind Singh] to merge Adi Granth with Dasam Granth.
ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ, "ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਹੈ ਉਹੁ, ਏਹ ਅਸਾਡੀ ਹੈ ਖੇਡ ।"
[Guru Gobind Singh Ji] said, "Granth Sahib is the Adi, and [Dasam Grath] is my play."

So Guru Sahib gives preference to Guru Granth Sahib.

ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ, "ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਹੈ ਉਹੁ, ਏਹ ਅਸਾਡੀ ਹੈ ਖੇਡ ।"
Guru Sahib says -  That one is Granth Sahib, this one is (ਅਸਾਡੀ ) our (ਖੇਡ)play.
Notice the word - ਅਸਾਡੀ - often implies plural tense.
ਨਾਲ ਨ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ਆਹਾ ਪਿਆਰਾ, ਕਉਨ ਜਾਣੇ ਭੇਦ ।
The wonderous beloved Guru Gobind Singh did not merge them together, who can understand this secret of Guru Sahib? [of why they were kept separate]

On a side note - Kesar Singh Chibber does not know the secret to why Guru Gobind Singh ji didn't combine them. However centuries later, with Guru's kirpa, I have actually discovered (accidentally stumbled upon is more accurate) the secret myself! I will gladly share the secret in another thread if you are interested. It requires quite a bit of elaboration not suitable for this thread but it's quite a revelation. In this thread I want to focus on the translation of Chibber's work.
 
ਸੋ, ਦੋਨੋ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰ ਕਰ ਜਾਨੋ ।
So, recognize both Granth Sahib's as Guru and brothers.

Perhaps it wasn't before, but now its 100% clear that this is the view of the author of Bansavlinama. Not of Guru Gobind Singh, in fact Guru Sahib himself says that he does not consider them the same. "One is the Guru, the other is our play."
 
ਵਡਾ ਹੈ ਟਿਕਾ ਗੁਰੂ, ਗੁਟਕੇ-ਪੋਥੀਆਂ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਪੋਤ੍ਰੇ ਕਰਿ ਪਛਾਨੋ ।੨੬੮।
The larger [Adi Granth] received the Tika [Guruship], the smaller gutka-pothian recognize them as sons and grandson.
 

---------------------------------------------------
On page 161 Kesar Singh explains another incident where a Sikh requested to Guru Gobind Singh to put Adi and Dasam Granth together.
--------------------------------------------------

ਸੰਮਤੁ ਸਤਾਰਾਂ ਸੈ ਪਚਵੰਜੇ, ਸਿਖਾਂ ਬਿਨਤੀ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਗੇ ਸੀ ਕੀਤੀ ।
In 1755 Bikrami, Sikhs had done a plea in front of Sahib [Guru Gobind Singh].
"ਗਰੀਬ ਨਿਵਾਜ ! ਜੋ ਬਚਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਾਂ ਦੋਹਾਂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥਾਂ ਦੀ ਜਿਲਦ ਇਕ ਚਹੀਐ ਕਰਿ ਲੀਤੀ ।"
"Oh protector of the poor!, If you make the commandment, we shall put both Granths in one cover [one Granth]."
ਸਾਹਿਬ ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ: "ਆਦਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ । ਇਹ ਅਸਾਡੀ ਹੈ ਖੇਡ, ਜੁਦਾ ਰਹੇ ਮਨ ਮੰਥ ।"
Sahib [Guru Gobind Singh] said, "Adi Granth is Guru, this [Dasam Granth] is my play, they should remain separate, but recognize them as the same light"

This very last bit is translated incorrectly, completely messed up.
It says -
ਸਾਹਿਬ ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ: "ਆਦਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ । ਇਹ ਅਸਾਡੀ ਹੈ ਖੇਡ, ਜੁਦਾ ਰਹੇ ਮਨ ਮੰਥ ।"
Guru Sahib says - Adi Guru is the Granth. This one (Dasam Granth) is our play. (ਰਹੇ) Let them remain (ਜੁਦਾ ) separate and let the (ਮਨ) mind be (ਮੰਥ ) troubled (over this separation) .

Conclusion -

1. Bansavalinama is not saying that Guru Sahib is the writer of Dasam Granth.
2. Even if Guru Sahib was the "likhari", he maybe a scribe like Bhai Gurdas ji, who is also described as the "likhari".
3. Kesar Singh mentions there are several internal signatures from the poets who were involved in the creation of the Dasam Granth.

So keeping 123 in mind, it would be more accurate to say that Guru Gobind Singh ji wrote Dasam Granth, the same way Maharaja Ranjit Singh ji built the Golden Temple. That is to say, being kings with great wealth, they both commissioned the respective works of art.

Anyway let me know your thoughts. Let me know if I messed up anywhere or if I am missing anything, etc.

Amardeep
Is this the bit from Bansavalinama? I found this on Manglacharan.com
 
ਸੁਣੋ ਭਾਈ ਸਿਖੋ । ਐਸਾ ਸੰਤ ਬਾਬਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੁ ਜਾਨੋ । ਦਸੇ ਮਹਲ ਇਕ ਬਾਬਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਜੀ ਪਛਾਨੋ ।
Listen Sikh Brothers! Recognize Baba Nanak as a true Saint, this is truth. In the ten forms [10 Guru's], recognize Baba Nanak in all of them.
ਦਸਵਾਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਗੱਦੀ ਗੁਰਿਆਈ ਦੀ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੂੰ ਦੇ ਹੈ ਗਿਆ ।
The tenth King has given the Guruship to the Granth Sahib.
ਬਿਨਾਂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਕੋਈ ਹੋਰ ਨ ਜਾਣੇ, ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਹੈਨਿ ਦੁਇ ਸਕੇ ਭਾਈ ।
Without the Granth there is nothing else, the Granth Sahib has it's form in two brothers.
-quote
This last tuk, doesn't seem to be a quote from Guru Gobind Singh ji. It seems that the author is saying this himself, it is his personal view.
 
ਇਕ ਹੈ ਵਡਾ ਇਕ ਛੋਟਾ ਕਹਾਈ ।੨੬੫।
[Recognize] One as larger [brother, which is Adi Granth] and one as smaller [brother, Dasam Granth].
ਸੰਮਤੁ ਸੋਲ੍ਹਾ ਸੈ ਅਠਵੰਜਾ ਸੇ ਗਏ । ਤਬ ਆਦਿ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜਿ ਜਨਮੁ ਲਏ ।
In 1658 Bikrami the Adi Granth took birth [was created].
ਗੁਰੂ ਅਰਜਨ ਜੀ ਕੇ ਧਾਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜਨਮੁ ਹੈ ਧਾਰਾ ।
In the house of Guru Arjan Dev Ji the Granth Sahib took its birth.
ਦਾਇਆ ਸੀ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ, ਲਿਖਾਰੀ ਖਿਡਾਵਣਹਾਰਾ ।੨੬੬।
Bhai Gurdas, with the blessings [of Guru Arjan], was the scribe.
-quote

It doesn't say blessing of Guru Arjun Dev ji in the line. It simply says.
ਦਾਇਆ ਸੀ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ, ਲਿਖਾਰੀ ਖਿਡਾਵਣਹਾਰਾ ।੨੬੬।
The (ਦਾਇਆ ) caretaker, (ਲਿਖਾਰੀ) writer, (ਖਿਡਾਵਣਹਾਰਾ) one who "plays" with it, was Bhai Gurdas ji.

Clearly the writer of Guru Granth Sahib is Bhai Gurdas ji.

This next bit is interesting, especially for me, as I am interested in seeing internal evidence of authorship.
 
ਛੋਟਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ, ਜਨਮੇ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਕੇ ਧਾਮ ।
The smaller [brother] Granth, took birth in the Tenth King's house.
ਸੰਮਤੁ ਸਤਾਰਾਂ ਸੈ ਪਚਵੰਜਾ, ਬਹੁਤ ਖਿਡਾਵੇ-ਲਿਖਾਰੇ ਨਾਮ ।
In 1755 Bikrami [it was born], [Guru Ji wrote it] under many names [Das Gobind, Syaam, Ram, Kaal etc].
ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੂੰ ਸੀ ਪਿਆਰਾ । ਹੱਥੀ ਲਿਖਿਆ, ਖਿਡਾਇਆ ।
[Guru Gobind Singh] Sahib had much love for this scripture, He himself hand wrote it.
-quote

Manglacharan is loading up their interpretation onto the gurmukhi. Let me try to unload it and see what the Gurmukhi is stating.

So it say ਛੋਟਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ, ਜਨਮੇ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਕੇ ਧਾਮ ।
The small Granth ji was born from the house of Dasam Pita.

Now this by itself could mean Guru Sahib commissioned Dasam Granth. This is the view I currently hold that Guru Sahib had many poets in his house - Shyam, Ram, Kal, etc. The internal signature of poets points to the "Commission Theory".

Next he says -
ਸੰਮਤੁ ਸਤਾਰਾਂ ਸੈ ਪਚਵੰਜਾ, ਬਹੁਤ ਖਿਡਾਵੇ-ਲਿਖਾਰੇ ਨਾਮ ।
In 1755, there are many (ਖਿਡਾਵੇ-) who "play" with it, many (ਲਿਖਾਰੇ)writers' names.

He says there are "many internal signatures" -> leads to my "Commission Theory".

next -
ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੂੰ ਸੀ ਪਿਆਰਾ । ਹੱਥੀ ਲਿਖਿਆ, ਖਿਡਾਇਆ ।
Guru Sahib was very fond of it. It was hand-written.
1. It doesn't exactly say Guru Sahib wrote it by hand like how it clearly says that Bhai Gurdas ji wrote Guru Granth Sahib by hand.
And even if he did, the internal authors are - Shyam, Ram, Kal, etc. which leads to 2.

2. Bhai Gurdas ji wrote Guru Granth Sahib by hand however the internal authors are - Nanak, Namdev, Kabir, etc. So writing by hand doesn't mean you are the composer of the banis. It could simply mean that you are the scribe.

Something to think about.
 
ਸਿਖਾਂ ਕੀਤੀ ਅਰਦਾਸੁ, ਜੀ ਅਗਲੇ ਨਾਲਿ ਚਾਹੀਏ ਰਲਾਇਆ ।੨੬੭।
Sikhs did a plea [towards Guru Gobind Singh] to merge Adi Granth with Dasam Granth.
ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ, "ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਹੈ ਉਹੁ, ਏਹ ਅਸਾਡੀ ਹੈ ਖੇਡ ।"
[Guru Gobind Singh Ji] said, "Granth Sahib is the Adi, and [Dasam Grath] is my play."

So Guru Sahib gives preference to Guru Granth Sahib.

ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ, "ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਹੈ ਉਹੁ, ਏਹ ਅਸਾਡੀ ਹੈ ਖੇਡ ।"
Guru Sahib says -  That one is Granth Sahib, this one is (ਅਸਾਡੀ ) our (ਖੇਡ)play.
Notice the word - ਅਸਾਡੀ - often implies plural tense.
ਨਾਲ ਨ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ਆਹਾ ਪਿਆਰਾ, ਕਉਨ ਜਾਣੇ ਭੇਦ ।
The wonderous beloved Guru Gobind Singh did not merge them together, who can understand this secret of Guru Sahib? [of why they were kept separate]

On a side note - Kesar Singh Chibber does not know the secret to why Guru Gobind Singh ji didn't combine them. However centuries later, with Guru's kirpa, I have actually discovered (accidentally stumbled upon is more accurate) the secret myself! I will gladly share the secret in another thread if you are interested. It requires quite a bit of elaboration not suitable for this thread but it's quite a revelation. In this thread I want to focus on the translation of Chibber's work.
 
ਸੋ, ਦੋਨੋ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰ ਕਰ ਜਾਨੋ ।
So, recognize both Granth Sahib's as Guru and brothers.

Perhaps it wasn't before, but now its 100% clear that this is the view of the author of Bansavlinama. Not of Guru Gobind Singh, in fact Guru Sahib himself says that he does not consider them the same. "One is the Guru, the other is our play."
 
ਵਡਾ ਹੈ ਟਿਕਾ ਗੁਰੂ, ਗੁਟਕੇ-ਪੋਥੀਆਂ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਪੋਤ੍ਰੇ ਕਰਿ ਪਛਾਨੋ ।੨੬੮।
The larger [Adi Granth] received the Tika [Guruship], the smaller gutka-pothian recognize them as sons and grandson.
 

---------------------------------------------------
On page 161 Kesar Singh explains another incident where a Sikh requested to Guru Gobind Singh to put Adi and Dasam Granth together.
--------------------------------------------------

ਸੰਮਤੁ ਸਤਾਰਾਂ ਸੈ ਪਚਵੰਜੇ, ਸਿਖਾਂ ਬਿਨਤੀ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਗੇ ਸੀ ਕੀਤੀ ।
In 1755 Bikrami, Sikhs had done a plea in front of Sahib [Guru Gobind Singh].
"ਗਰੀਬ ਨਿਵਾਜ ! ਜੋ ਬਚਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਾਂ ਦੋਹਾਂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥਾਂ ਦੀ ਜਿਲਦ ਇਕ ਚਹੀਐ ਕਰਿ ਲੀਤੀ ।"
"Oh protector of the poor!, If you make the commandment, we shall put both Granths in one cover [one Granth]."
ਸਾਹਿਬ ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ: "ਆਦਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ । ਇਹ ਅਸਾਡੀ ਹੈ ਖੇਡ, ਜੁਦਾ ਰਹੇ ਮਨ ਮੰਥ ।"
Sahib [Guru Gobind Singh] said, "Adi Granth is Guru, this [Dasam Granth] is my play, they should remain separate, but recognize them as the same light"

This very last bit is translated incorrectly, completely messed up.
It says -
ਸਾਹਿਬ ਬਚਨ ਕੀਤਾ: "ਆਦਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ । ਇਹ ਅਸਾਡੀ ਹੈ ਖੇਡ, ਜੁਦਾ ਰਹੇ ਮਨ ਮੰਥ ।"
Guru Sahib says - Adi Guru is the Granth. This one (Dasam Granth) is our play. (ਰਹੇ) Let them remain (ਜੁਦਾ ) separate and let the (ਮਨ) mind be (ਮੰਥ ) troubled (over this separation) .

Conclusion -

1. Bansavalinama is not saying that Guru Sahib is the writer of Dasam Granth.
2. Even if Guru Sahib was the "likhari", he maybe a scribe like Bhai Gurdas ji, who is also described as the "likhari".
3. Kesar Singh mentions there are several internal signatures from the poets who were involved in the creation of the Dasam Granth.

So keeping 123 in mind, it would be more accurate to say that Guru Gobind Singh ji wrote Dasam Granth, the same way Maharaja Ranjit Singh ji built the Golden Temple. That is to say, being kings with great wealth, they both commissioned the respective works of art.

Anyway let me know your thoughts. Let me know if I messed up anywhere or if I am missing anything, etc.

Indeed. I think Hatred is a disease as well. It is NOT dislike or preference. It's a projection of one's inner turmoil as negative energy. Disease is a good word, as hatred is rooted in the body and is contagious but it can be healed.

Depends on the religion.
Brahma ji's religion has died out and those concept have been absorbed by other religions.

Check this out - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smarta_Tradition

PS - Why is this not in the comparative section?

ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਗਹੁ ਮੀਤਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਣਵੈ ਨਾਮਾ ਇਉ ਕਹੈ ਗੀਤਾ ॥੫॥੨॥੬॥
The humble Namdev ji says, "My friend, through the Guru's teachings and techniques, meditate on the name of Ram. This is what the Bhagwad Geeta teaches as well"

Amazing translations of Bhagwad Gita with commentaries by four saintly scholars right available in one place on one page! Priceless!
http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/verse-01-07.html

 

ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਗਹੁ ਮੀਤਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਣਵੈ ਨਾਮਾ ਇਉ ਕਹੈ ਗੀਤਾ ॥੫॥੨॥੬॥
The humble Namdev ji says, "My friend, through the Guru's teachings and techniques, meditate on the name of Ram. This is what the Bhagwad Geeta teaches as well"

Amazing translations of Bhagwad Gita with commentaries by four saintly scholars right available in one place on one page! Priceless!
http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/verse-01-07.html

 

Don't worry about controlling it yet first learn to watch it/to observe it/to study it, without reacting to it. Start by watching your thoughts, simply watching.

 

​Well don't leave us hanging, finish the story. What is your caste?

Lol Im pulling your leg.

Now we know the problems associated with caste. We all get it.

However you also have to understand that in puratan times caste was your tribe/dynasty, mark of your ancestors and your profession, and thus it was your identity. When that dude said, "what is your caste", if he was born a thousand years ago, would translate to "who are you? who are your ancestors? and what do you do?"

But that longer works because tribes have scattered, people have become ignorant of their ancestors and professions have changed and are in flux.

Don't worry about controlling it yet first learn to watch it/to observe it/to study it, without reacting to it. Start by watching your thoughts, simply watching.

 

What Dally was talking about was changing facts to suit your own historical narrative.

For example, if someone believes that only people who have taken khande di pahul can be a sikh, then they will revise and edit and misrepresent history to show that all sikhs like Bhai Kanhaiya ji, etc took khande di pahul.

And they have done this, and many people including me have believed their shit at some point.

What Dally was talking about was changing facts to suit your own historical narrative.

For example, if someone believes that only people who have taken khande di pahul can be a sikh, then they will revise and edit and misrepresent history to show that all sikhs like Bhai Kanhaiya ji, etc took khande di pahul.

And they have done this, and many people including me have believed their shit at some point.

What Dally was talking about was changing facts to suit your own historical narrative.

For example, if someone believes that only people who have taken khande di pahul can be a sikh, then they will revise and edit and misrepresent history to show that all sikhs like Bhai Kanhaiya ji, etc took khande di pahul.

And they have done this, and many people including me have believed their shit at some point.

​Das, the word Giras ਗਿਰਾਸ is related to the word Girahi ਗਿਰਾਹੀ
Thus Swas Giras becomes synonymous with the phrase "24/7" or "Atthe Peher". It means to do something all the time, since you are breathing all the time or if you are not breathing you are probably swallowing (since when you swallow you don't breath).

Swas can mean incoming breath but is not necessarily incoming breath. Swas Swas is referring to both incoming and outgoing breath.

Sat, that's a long post. Let me read it tomorrow and see if I can add anything or learn something.

​Those two are not mutually exclusive.
I maybe lost but ​I am not the one misusing tuks from Guru Granth sahib without understanding.
 
1. Any action can have Moh as the fuel. This is on you to figure out which of your actions have Moh and which don't.
2. If you can't keep your Moh out of Ridhiyan Sidhiyan, then you probably can't keep your Moh out of other actions. Thus you need to work on your Moh.
3. Ridhiyan Sidhiyan cannot get rid of your Moh. You need to get rid of your Moh by connecting to God. Ridhiyan Sidhiyan are simply a manifestation of that connection.

ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਸਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਹੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਇ ॥
Ridhiyan Sidhiyan nal man vich naam nahi vasda. This is correct. It works the other way around. Naam man vich vasan nal ridhiyan sidhiyan mil jandiyan han.
ਹਰਿ ਹਾਰੁ ਕੰਠਿ ਜਿਨੀ ਪਹਿਰਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਚਰਣੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ॥
ਤਿਨਾ ਪਿਛੈ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਫਿਰੈ ਓਨਾ ਤਿਲੁ ਨ ਤਮਾਇ ॥੪॥
Those who wear the necklace of Hari's name on their throat, meaning those who are connected to Hari, they are absorbed into their Guru's feet.
Ridhiyan Sidhiyan follow such people, who do not desire such things (meaning they only desire Hari).

Essentialy Swas Swas (breath - breath) simran means to do simran with ever breath, continuously, without stopping.
Swas Gras (breath - swallowing food) simran means to do simran with every breath and everytime you ingest food.

The idea of both is to do simran all the time. 24/7 - Atth Peher
Some people have techniques such as this one. Try such techniques and find out what works best for you.
I find that the biggest stumbling block is forgetting that you have to do simran 24/7, going about daily lives. So you have to constantly remind yourself, throughout the day to get back into bhagti.

​Those two are not mutually exclusive.
I maybe lost but ​I am not the one misusing tuks from Guru Granth sahib without understanding.
 
1. Any action can have Moh as the fuel. This is on you to figure out which of your actions have Moh and which don't.
2. If you can't keep your Moh out of Ridhiyan Sidhiyan, then you probably can't keep your Moh out of other actions. Thus you need to work on your Moh.
3. Ridhiyan Sidhiyan cannot get rid of your Moh. You need to get rid of your Moh by connecting to God. Ridhiyan Sidhiyan are simply a manifestation of that connection.

ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਸਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਹੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਇ ॥
Ridhiyan Sidhiyan nal man vich naam nahi vasda. This is correct. It works the other way around. Naam man vich vasan nal ridhiyan sidhiyan mil jandiyan han.
ਹਰਿ ਹਾਰੁ ਕੰਠਿ ਜਿਨੀ ਪਹਿਰਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਚਰਣੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ॥
ਤਿਨਾ ਪਿਛੈ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਫਿਰੈ ਓਨਾ ਤਿਲੁ ਨ ਤਮਾਇ ॥੪॥
Those who wear the necklace of Hari's name on their throat, meaning those who are connected to Hari, they are absorbed into their Guru's feet.
Ridhiyan Sidhiyan follow such people, who do not desire such things (meaning they only desire Hari).

I have had those too, sudden jerks in different limbs. I haven't had it in full body though.
That's something different. I am talking about vibrations in the whole body.
edit: Make machine gun sounds with your mouth and notice how it vibrates the mouth, the cheeks. Now imagine this happening all over the body, and you also hear the machine gun type sounds in deep pitch, high volume.

I had this dream once where I saw Shri Hari in dark form, awe-inspiring that soon became frightening as I got pulled into this whirlpool below Him. As I get pulled into it I become surrounded by more and more darkness and the above vibration and sounds start happening.