Lucky

It's like a 'kathathon'. lol

nice one!  
Attachments-moh, is a major one that starts cracking the  ''code'' to lakh chaurasi mukhti.  This is major step to get "naam",.. gurbani says "bin namai mukht kinai na payee" (without naam, no one has, or will obtain mukhti).
I reckon that everyone would get there own nishanees of some sorts that confirms the "after-life" . This in itself; would be a good idea of what's in reach.
 
Problem that many people have with trying to stop or reduce their moh, attachments and desires is that they feel they have to try so hard to remove these bondage chains!.. they try, try and try and even try to convince themselves that they've done it! ..........It never actually happens like that because the secret is to stop trying and to just "LET GO" of all the associations and mind feelings that are actually taking you towards those attachments.  It's as if you "just stop trying".   Having moh and desires actually takes personal energy and we don't realise that we use and expend it towards these directions. Secret of simran and yoga is that you divert all these energies towards Prabh ka simran..and to yog your jivatma with paramatma....and that's it!!!
 

nice one!  
Attachments-moh, is a major one that starts cracking the  ''code'' to lakh chaurasi mukhti.  This is major step to get "naam",.. gurbani says "bin namai mukht kinai na payee" (without naam, no one has, or will obtain mukhti).
I reckon that everyone would get there own nishanees of some sorts that confirms the "after-life" . This in itself; would be a good idea of what's in reach.
 
Problem that many people have with trying to stop or reduce their moh, attachments and desires is that they feel they have to try so hard to remove these bondage chains!.. they try, try and try and even try to convince themselves that they've done it! ..........It never actually happens like that because the secret is to stop trying and to just "LET GO" of all the associations and mind feelings that are actually taking you towards those attachments.  It's as if you "just stop trying".   Having moh and desires actually takes personal energy and we don't realise that we use and expend it towards these directions. Secret of simran and yoga is that you divert all these energies towards Prabh ka simran..and to yog your jivatma with paramatma....and that's it!!!
 

nice one!  
Attachments-moh, is a major one that starts cracking the  ''code'' to lakh chaurasi mukhti.  This is major step to get "naam",.. gurbani says "bin namai mukht kinai na payee" (without naam, no one has, or will obtain mukhti).
I reckon that everyone would get there own nishanees of some sorts that confirms the "after-life" . This in itself; would be a good idea of what's in reach.
 
Problem that many people have with trying to stop or reduce their moh, attachments and desires is that they feel they have to try so hard to remove these bondage chains!.. they try, try and try and even try to convince themselves that they've done it! ..........It never actually happens like that because the secret is to stop trying and to just "LET GO" of all the associations and mind feelings that are actually taking you towards those attachments.  It's as if you "just stop trying".   Having moh and desires actually takes personal energy and we don't realise that we use and expend it towards these directions. Secret of simran and yoga is that you divert all these energies towards Prabh ka simran..and to yog your jivatma with paramatma....and that's it!!!
 

nice one!  
Attachments-moh, is a major one that starts cracking the  ''code'' to lakh chaurasi mukhti.  This is major step to get "naam",.. gurbani says "bin namai mukht kinai na payee" (without naam, no one has, or will obtain mukhti).
I reckon that everyone would get there own nishanees of some sorts that confirms the "after-life" . This in itself; would be a good idea of what's in reach.
 
Problem that many people have with trying to stop or reduce their moh, attachments and desires is that they feel they have to try so hard to remove these bondage chains!.. they try, try and try and even try to convince themselves that they've done it! ..........It never actually happens like that because the secret is to stop trying and to just "LET GO" of all the associations and mind feelings that are actually taking you towards those attachments.  It's as if you "just stop trying".   Having moh and desires actually takes personal energy and we don't realise that we use and expend it towards these directions. Secret of simran and yoga is that you divert all these energies towards Prabh ka simran..and to yog your jivatma with paramatma....and that's it!!!
 

For charasi lakh joon mukhti I feel once you stop having worldly desires and your actions become nishkaam then consider yourself mukht, at this stage all your 'lehn dehn' karm is done..You will be aware of this mukhti before you 'die'..lol.
 'an approach' for this can also be to understand/practice vivek and vairaag. Vivek (distinguish between what is permanent and what is temporary) and the realization of this world being temporary leads to vairaag ( the feeling/emotion of this realization) which lead you away from world and wordy desire. 
bro you never know when you karam will 'accelerate'.... :)

I'm sure you have an idea for the answer here?   lol
A question to help promote discussion and some thinking amongst members I would assume.
Anyway, It is important to realise that MUKTI is not just one type.  Heh????
Firsty, there is mukhti from lakh chaurasi, mukti from the cycle.  Which one have you taken birth for?
One can be outside of lakh chaurasi and be at the heavens or outside the doors of Waheguru's dar. These angelic beings, shaheeds are mukht from the lakh chaurasi but they are not merged in completeness with niriankar in sachkhand.  That merging is the next level of mukhti, where there is no identity whatsoever and you become the complete cosmic ocean of sachkhand.  Pay close attention to some verses in japji sahib that tell you about who sings and does sift salah at waheguru's door. They are all mukht from lakh chaurasi but they are not merged in sachkhand with nirankar.
 
 
 
 

You should really sit with your hip-bones higher than your knees.
Use a couple of cushions to do this, even if you are sitting on the bed.

You should be able to manage a lot longer periods.
On good days, I can manage about 3 hrs quite easily, providing I stretch major leg muscles before hand.

I can sense what she is feeling and why her emotions are high. This is SELF-REALISATION!  ....she has conquered her own "MOH" (attachment) to her guru.
SELF-REALISATION is about SELF and there is nothing selfish about it.....We are all here to LEARN our own lessons that are rooted in our baggage of karams.. "Karmi avai kapra" tells us that the the soul is dressed in this individual  skin/body/flesh in order to help "Sikh"(learn) the lessons of previous..
BhagatSingh,  as you mention that she is Sikh, .....I would probably go further to say that she has now become the 'true Sikh' after realising her own self potential in order to complete her journey. Her true "self-learning" and real sikhi will start now and the karmic bonds will begin to get broken. Gurbani mentions the bhandans breaking and that the gurukh realises that the relationships  and bonds were destined according to karams.
GURU takes and helps guide one to get from the darkness -->>light.  We have satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, that is the true living guru. ..When we go to to study advanced materials like physics or law, then we are shown the textbooks and materials that contain the teachings. However, in order to study these texts, we need to know how to read and understand what the written words mean ...(this is what all the earlier schooling and prepping is about) .    In the same way, a guide or master is very helpful for the prepping and guiding,  the discipline, rehat, the steps to get walking on the path etc.  because basically,....we have to "learn to crawl before we can learn to walk".   and the guide/master is the one that can help with getting us to that crawling.  The real sikhi is only done by Self, and that is when we really start the walking.
 
After watching the video, I was a little disappointed to hear the crowd laughing at the woman as if her emotions were wrong or she was somehow loopy! ... .. I don't know about anyone else, but I genuinely felt nothing but joy and affection to her experience and can't understand why someone would laugh at someone directly with such ignorance.
 

@BhagatSingh @dalsingh101
Good posts here and you both got good points but we have to remember to not get too associated in one aspect or the other.
The Kabir sloks quoted are very important and they are not only about gross/subtle, physical and non-physical , sargun/nirgu but they are about the stages of transformation and learning for a Sikh. I think that they are way too difficult to put into words and describe, which is why parables and metaphors are used.
These 4 sloks are mentioned by kathavachaks quite often but even most of them just stay on the literal meanings, whereas they go much beyond that and are centered in around the complete aspects of maya in it's totality.
@BhagatSingh- you've touched on the messages and into the directions of the non-literal meanings quite well. I will just give a little of my understanding but we have to remember that it is not complete, since these 4 couplets can never be penned in their totality as Duality will always be present  as long as maya does
KABIR SLOK 146 to 149
ਕਬੀਰ ਰੋੜਾ ਹੋਇ ਰਹੁ ਬਾਟ ਕਾ ਤਜਿ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥
Kabīr roṛā ho▫e rahu bāt kā ṯaj man kā abẖimān.
Kabeer, let yourself be a pebble on the path; abandon your egotistical pride.       
   
   He says pay attention to pebble, be a pebble that has no identity, no Ego.
Become the rolling stone that gets kicked and rolled along and doesn't have an ego occupying gross space as compared to a larger rock/stone that stays set in it's position and occupies the space and identity of "that big rock on the road"  ie. takes up fixed and set ground space and refuses to move. 
 The 1st step is to become the pebble.......to drop the  ego.
 
ਐਸਾ ਕੋਈ ਦਾਸੁ ਹੋਇ ਤਾਹਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਭਗਵਾਨੁ ॥੧੪੬॥
Aisā ko▫ī ḏās ho▫e ṯāhi milai bẖagvān. ||146||
Such a humble slave shall meet the Lord God. ||146||           
 
 
ਕਬੀਰ ਰੋੜਾ ਹੂਆ ਤ ਕਿਆ ਭਇਆ ਪੰਥੀ ਕਉ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੇਇ ॥
Kabīr roṛā hū▫ā ṯa ki▫ā bẖa▫i▫ā panthī ka▫o ḏukẖ ḏe▫e.
Kabeer, what good would it be, to be a pebble? It would only hurt the traveler on the path.            
 
  Then he rejects the previous slok because the one who is WALKING on the path can get hurt.
This means others and even your ego-less self....because you(the pebble) still have the power/energy to HURT and cause pain. Both, to others and experience yourself ............he's saying that you may have NO EGO but you can still have energies and qualities to give and experience DUKH
 
 
ਐਸਾ ਤੇਰਾ ਦਾਸੁ ਹੈ ਜਿਉ ਧਰਨੀ ਮਹਿ ਖੇਹ ॥੧੪੭॥
Aisā ṯerā ḏās hai ji▫o ḏẖarnī mėh kẖeh. ||147||
Your slave, O Lord, is like the dust of the earth. ||147||         
 
  Gives solution to previous slok so as not to cause DUKH, what should he do? ... Become the dust i.e., when the pebble is completely eroded and grind,.. then it can become DUST and be DUKH-less.
Let the pebble be pebble be ground to less gross matter and not cause DUKH
 
ਕਬੀਰ ਖੇਹ ਹੂਈ ਤਉ ਕਿਆ ਭਇਆ ਜਉ ਉਡਿ ਲਾਗੈ ਅੰਗ ॥
Kabīr kẖeh hū▫ī ṯa▫o ki▫ā bẖa▫i▫ā ja▫o ud lāgai ang.
Kabeer, what then, if one could become dust? It is blown up by the wind, and sticks to the body.
 
  -Still has problem after getting to this level because it will stick to the bodies of others and make them dirty, make their clothes dirty.
One has to Wash because they accumalate layers of dirt and dust. 
The dust still has energy to make others dirty.
It is also influenced and dictated by the SUBTLE wind, whereas when you were pebble it was whoever kicked you along the path as a rolling stone.
 
The wind, the pavan represents the subtle emotions, the feelings the inner affects that good/bad sangat can influence you with.
Whatever type of emotion and mind influencing sangat surrounds you can dictate on what gross areas you end up sticking and what gross actions you commit.
This is quite a heavy affect on our inner being and state of mind. It is this influence that brainwashes the likes of fundamentalists, who let the emotions and feelings of senses (subtle), affect their gross behaviours and actions of suicide bombings and what they believe is shaheedi in the name of God.
 
 
               
ਹਰਿ ਜਨੁ ਐਸਾ ਚਾਹੀਐ ਜਿਉ ਪਾਨੀ ਸਰਬੰਗ ॥੧੪੮॥
Har jan aisā cẖāhī▫ai ji▫o pānī sarbang. ||148||
The humble servant of the Lord should be like water, which cleans everything. ||148||  
 
   Solution to overcoming the Kheh state that is not affected by emotions and senses is to  become like water because the water washes dirt and cleans.
Be the water, ...the water will always FLOW, become flowing he is saying, because the water finds it's settling direction by always flowing downwards and  will continue to flow until it reaches the estuary, ocean or pond/pool of water.
 
The water Flowing level will seem the perfect answer for most because at this level of overcoming affects of physical and mind emotions, one would believe they are in complete flowing hukam and letting the hukam dictate their path
 
Kabit ji summarizes that after stripping layers,  after shedding from outer gross layers and going inwards towards the subtle qualities, he still finds duality even when flowing in Hukam..
Even when in the state of water, where EGO has been DISSOLVED. and the direction of flow is not in water's own control, he is still affected with duality.  This duality is explained in the next slok.
 
 
ਕਬੀਰ ਪਾਨੀ ਹੂਆ ਤ ਕਿਆ ਭਇਆ ਸੀਰਾ ਤਾਤਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
Kabīr pānī hū▫ā ṯa ki▫ā bẖa▫i▫ā sīrā ṯāṯā ho▫e.
Kabeer, what then, if one could become water? It becomes cold, then hot.               
 
 Because it has duality of becoming hot and cold, angry and cool.,  Kabirji says that "I've become this inward state, EGO is Dissolved and letting the downward flow take me wherever it may lead. However, I can still be affected by the duality of tata- sira, hot-cold, boiling rage-cool calm..etc.
 
He has described being the pebble, the dust and then the water.  This is 3 states, 3 layers, 3 avasthas, 3 stages of transformation, 3 forms of maya.
 The 3 important and inescapable qualities of maya is just one of the directions that i've touched with. 
Pavan is the Guru of maya as in Pavan guru pani pita.
Pavan influences as wind at the dust level, which is easily sensed, but it can also influence at more discreet subtle level as radiating heat to water.. Just think of the 3 forms of heat transfer as Conduction, Convection and Radiation. ... This is what I mean that we can go on and on with discussing maya aspects that are relative to these sloks but we have to really attempt experiencing to actually ever know.
 
ਹਰਿ ਜਨੁ ਐਸਾ ਚਾਹੀਐ ਜੈਸਾ ਹਰਿ ਹੀ ਹੋਇ ॥੧੪੯॥
Har jan aisā cẖāhī▫ai jaisā har hī ho▫e. ||149||
The humble servant of the Lord should be just like the Lord. ||149||           
 
He finalises and concludes that the only way is to be like the Lord. 
 
We can strip layers, wash, transform,... but all of this is done in maya and even in the most subtle and dissolved ego state of letting the flow take you,....we are still affected by Maya..  Existing in the matrix will always mean being part of the matrix.
 
The only avastha, state or layer that you can be Ik-Mikh (one and the same) with the Lord, is when you are "jaisa Har"..just like Har.
 
The question will be that "how do we become like the Lord then"?
When you can momentarily become jivan mukht and totally liberated from Maya. When you are out of the boundaries beyond all spiritual illusions and in to deeper sunn samadhi.
In abyaas avastha, this can ONLY happen when the 9 doors close and the Dasam duar opens. When the Lord himself reveals the Truth to you, the darshan, the prakash, the becoming of Ik-mikh with Sach..... this is jaisa har and this is what you have to work on.......to get more and more antarghat, inwards,,,,more subtle until you are walking in hukam. Even then you have to completely let go and let your dissolved state take you into mool

Yes for definite bro! 
I've had major TBI with frontal lobe injuries along with sub-arachnoid bleeding. My recovery has been good  but concentration and focus span can be poor for certain tasks.(Not allowed to drive for this reason)

Yeh, I did find that 5-HT brands and especially 100mg would make you groggy, but at the same time would also induce deep sleep. I think that this is also why many people take it along with melatonin to help them sleep or for insomnia. I found that taking the pre-cursor "tryptophan" in capsule form was more effective and not making me groggy. Keeping some tryptophan in hand is probably a good idea and much safer than taking prescription SSRI's like celexas, prozacs or benzos. Tryptophan will help with pineal stimulation whereas ssri's won't and neither will the dreaded St John's wort.
At the end of the day,... simran and then getting to the shabad, will help eradicate all the chinta and anxieties. Gurbani tells us that this disease of the mind along with asa and trishna,  can all be hammered and stopped once you learn to still and stop your mind with meditative quietening.

@BhagatSingh @dalsingh101
Good posts here and you both got good points but we have to remember to not get too associated in one aspect or the other.
The Kabir sloks quoted are very important and they are not only about gross/subtle, physical and non-physical , sargun/nirgu but they are about the stages of transformation and learning for a Sikh. I think that they are way too difficult to put into words and describe, which is why parables and metaphors are used.
These 4 sloks are mentioned by kathavachaks quite often but even most of them just stay on the literal meanings, whereas they go much beyond that and are centered in around the complete aspects of maya in it's totality.
@BhagatSingh- you've touched on the messages and into the directions of the non-literal meanings quite well. I will just give a little of my understanding but we have to remember that it is not complete, since these 4 couplets can never be penned in their totality as Duality will always be present  as long as maya does
KABIR SLOK 146 to 149
ਕਬੀਰ ਰੋੜਾ ਹੋਇ ਰਹੁ ਬਾਟ ਕਾ ਤਜਿ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥
Kabīr roṛā ho▫e rahu bāt kā ṯaj man kā abẖimān.
Kabeer, let yourself be a pebble on the path; abandon your egotistical pride.       
   
   He says pay attention to pebble, be a pebble that has no identity, no Ego.
Become the rolling stone that gets kicked and rolled along and doesn't have an ego occupying gross space as compared to a larger rock/stone that stays set in it's position and occupies the space and identity of "that big rock on the road"  ie. takes up fixed and set ground space and refuses to move. 
 The 1st step is to become the pebble.......to drop the  ego.
 
ਐਸਾ ਕੋਈ ਦਾਸੁ ਹੋਇ ਤਾਹਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਭਗਵਾਨੁ ॥੧੪੬॥
Aisā ko▫ī ḏās ho▫e ṯāhi milai bẖagvān. ||146||
Such a humble slave shall meet the Lord God. ||146||           
 
 
ਕਬੀਰ ਰੋੜਾ ਹੂਆ ਤ ਕਿਆ ਭਇਆ ਪੰਥੀ ਕਉ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੇਇ ॥
Kabīr roṛā hū▫ā ṯa ki▫ā bẖa▫i▫ā panthī ka▫o ḏukẖ ḏe▫e.
Kabeer, what good would it be, to be a pebble? It would only hurt the traveler on the path.            
 
  Then he rejects the previous slok because the one who is WALKING on the path can get hurt.
This means others and even your ego-less self....because you(the pebble) still have the power/energy to HURT and cause pain. Both, to others and experience yourself ............he's saying that you may have NO EGO but you can still have energies and qualities to give and experience DUKH
 
 
ਐਸਾ ਤੇਰਾ ਦਾਸੁ ਹੈ ਜਿਉ ਧਰਨੀ ਮਹਿ ਖੇਹ ॥੧੪੭॥
Aisā ṯerā ḏās hai ji▫o ḏẖarnī mėh kẖeh. ||147||
Your slave, O Lord, is like the dust of the earth. ||147||         
 
  Gives solution to previous slok so as not to cause DUKH, what should he do? ... Become the dust i.e., when the pebble is completely eroded and grind,.. then it can become DUST and be DUKH-less.
Let the pebble be pebble be ground to less gross matter and not cause DUKH
 
ਕਬੀਰ ਖੇਹ ਹੂਈ ਤਉ ਕਿਆ ਭਇਆ ਜਉ ਉਡਿ ਲਾਗੈ ਅੰਗ ॥
Kabīr kẖeh hū▫ī ṯa▫o ki▫ā bẖa▫i▫ā ja▫o ud lāgai ang.
Kabeer, what then, if one could become dust? It is blown up by the wind, and sticks to the body.
 
  -Still has problem after getting to this level because it will stick to the bodies of others and make them dirty, make their clothes dirty.
One has to Wash because they accumalate layers of dirt and dust. 
The dust still has energy to make others dirty.
It is also influenced and dictated by the SUBTLE wind, whereas when you were pebble it was whoever kicked you along the path as a rolling stone.
 
The wind, the pavan represents the subtle emotions, the feelings the inner affects that good/bad sangat can influence you with.
Whatever type of emotion and mind influencing sangat surrounds you can dictate on what gross areas you end up sticking and what gross actions you commit.
This is quite a heavy affect on our inner being and state of mind. It is this influence that brainwashes the likes of fundamentalists, who let the emotions and feelings of senses (subtle), affect their gross behaviours and actions of suicide bombings and what they believe is shaheedi in the name of God.
 
 
               
ਹਰਿ ਜਨੁ ਐਸਾ ਚਾਹੀਐ ਜਿਉ ਪਾਨੀ ਸਰਬੰਗ ॥੧੪੮॥
Har jan aisā cẖāhī▫ai ji▫o pānī sarbang. ||148||
The humble servant of the Lord should be like water, which cleans everything. ||148||  
 
   Solution to overcoming the Kheh state that is not affected by emotions and senses is to  become like water because the water washes dirt and cleans.
Be the water, ...the water will always FLOW, become flowing he is saying, because the water finds it's settling direction by always flowing downwards and  will continue to flow until it reaches the estuary, ocean or pond/pool of water.
 
The water Flowing level will seem the perfect answer for most because at this level of overcoming affects of physical and mind emotions, one would believe they are in complete flowing hukam and letting the hukam dictate their path
 
Kabit ji summarizes that after stripping layers,  after shedding from outer gross layers and going inwards towards the subtle qualities, he still finds duality even when flowing in Hukam..
Even when in the state of water, where EGO has been DISSOLVED. and the direction of flow is not in water's own control, he is still affected with duality.  This duality is explained in the next slok.
 
 
ਕਬੀਰ ਪਾਨੀ ਹੂਆ ਤ ਕਿਆ ਭਇਆ ਸੀਰਾ ਤਾਤਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
Kabīr pānī hū▫ā ṯa ki▫ā bẖa▫i▫ā sīrā ṯāṯā ho▫e.
Kabeer, what then, if one could become water? It becomes cold, then hot.               
 
 Because it has duality of becoming hot and cold, angry and cool.,  Kabirji says that "I've become this inward state, EGO is Dissolved and letting the downward flow take me wherever it may lead. However, I can still be affected by the duality of tata- sira, hot-cold, boiling rage-cool calm..etc.
 
He has described being the pebble, the dust and then the water.  This is 3 states, 3 layers, 3 avasthas, 3 stages of transformation, 3 forms of maya.
 The 3 important and inescapable qualities of maya is just one of the directions that i've touched with. 
Pavan is the Guru of maya as in Pavan guru pani pita.
Pavan influences as wind at the dust level, which is easily sensed, but it can also influence at more discreet subtle level as radiating heat to water.. Just think of the 3 forms of heat transfer as Conduction, Convection and Radiation. ... This is what I mean that we can go on and on with discussing maya aspects that are relative to these sloks but we have to really attempt experiencing to actually ever know.
 
ਹਰਿ ਜਨੁ ਐਸਾ ਚਾਹੀਐ ਜੈਸਾ ਹਰਿ ਹੀ ਹੋਇ ॥੧੪੯॥
Har jan aisā cẖāhī▫ai jaisā har hī ho▫e. ||149||
The humble servant of the Lord should be just like the Lord. ||149||           
 
He finalises and concludes that the only way is to be like the Lord. 
 
We can strip layers, wash, transform,... but all of this is done in maya and even in the most subtle and dissolved ego state of letting the flow take you,....we are still affected by Maya..  Existing in the matrix will always mean being part of the matrix.
 
The only avastha, state or layer that you can be Ik-Mikh (one and the same) with the Lord, is when you are "jaisa Har"..just like Har.
 
The question will be that "how do we become like the Lord then"?
When you can momentarily become jivan mukht and totally liberated from Maya. When you are out of the boundaries beyond all spiritual illusions and in to deeper sunn samadhi.
In abyaas avastha, this can ONLY happen when the 9 doors close and the Dasam duar opens. When the Lord himself reveals the Truth to you, the darshan, the prakash, the becoming of Ik-mikh with Sach..... this is jaisa har and this is what you have to work on.......to get more and more antarghat, inwards,,,,more subtle until you are walking in hukam. Even then you have to completely let go and let your dissolved state take you into mool

I'm sure you have an idea for the answer here?   lol
A question to help promote discussion and some thinking amongst members I would assume.
Anyway, It is important to realise that MUKTI is not just one type.  Heh????
Firsty, there is mukhti from lakh chaurasi, mukti from the cycle.  Which one have you taken birth for?
One can be outside of lakh chaurasi and be at the heavens or outside the doors of Waheguru's dar. These angelic beings, shaheeds are mukht from the lakh chaurasi but they are not merged in completeness with niriankar in sachkhand.  That merging is the next level of mukhti, where there is no identity whatsoever and you become the complete cosmic ocean of sachkhand.  Pay close attention to some verses in japji sahib that tell you about who sings and does sift salah at waheguru's door. They are all mukht from lakh chaurasi but they are not merged in sachkhand with nirankar.
 
 
 
 

That's better! 
Share your root concepts from the source, so they can be clearly identified. 
Gives your arguments a thousand times more authority. 
Don't you think by separating this 'gross' and 'subtle' there is a danger of bringing duality into the mix? 
 
No dude you misunderstood, I KNOW you are the person most likely to be on this around here! lol I know this is what you would share. 
I was just trying to show other forum brothers and sisters a clear example of 'cultural shift' in the interpretation of the bani - and more importantly, what knowledge influenced the new interpretation. I've come across BVS subtly using Christian theological terms (and other western ethnology sources) before but it was the first time I've seen such a blatant use of modern physics in his work. It's a big thing for me. You know from my profile that I'm interested in how colonialism changed Sikhs perception of Sikhi as well as science. This is exciting stuff - couldn't just let it slip by without comment!
We have to highlight this, because otherwise people may think that the modern interpretation is a puratan one because Bhai Vir Singh ji's name is associated with it. 
Now when you come out with your reading, people can understand why they will be so different. 
I think over the next few months we try and compare pre-colonial and colonial period interpretations of the same verses - I think we will learn a lot from this:
 
The floor is all yours. Just refer back to root sources frequently! It strengthens your arguments as well as allays a lot of concerns. 

"Mate, all your use and definitions of 'subtle' seem to have originated from your mind more than anywhere else."
But have they really?
ਤੂੰ ਸੂਖਮੁ ਹੋਆ ਅਸਥੂਲੀ ॥   तूं सूखमु होआ असथूली ॥   Ŧūʼn sūkẖam ho▫ā asthūlī.   From the very small and subtle, You have become huge and manifest. (God) You are subtle (spiritual) and have become gross (material).
 
ਆਪਹਿ ਸੂਖਮ ਆਪਹਿ ਅਸਥੂਲਾ ॥   आपहि सूखम आपहि असथूला ॥   Āpėh sūkẖam āpėh asthūlā.   He Himself is subtle and etheric; He Himself is manifest and obvious. (God) He is by himself subtle and he is by himself gross.
 
ਸਿਮਰਹਿ ਥੂਲ ਸੂਖਮ ਸਭਿ ਜੰਤਾ ॥   सिमरहि थूल सूखम सभि जंता ॥   Simrahi thūl sūkẖam sabẖ janṯā.   All beings, both subtle and gross, meditate in remembrance. All subtle and gross beings meditate on God.

Is it a stretch to say what I did?
This is ancient lore but it has a deeper meaning.
1. Guru Sahib is saying -
 ਸਾਚੇ ਤੇ ਪਵਨਾ ਭਇਆ ਪਵਨੈ ਤੇ ਜਲੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਜਲ ਤੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਸਾਜਿਆ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮੋਇ ॥
From the subtle came the gross.
From the most subtle (ਸਾਚੇ) Hari, spiritual, came (ਪਵਨਾ) the less subtle elements. From the less subtle elements came (ਜਲੁ) even less subtle elements. These elements then forms the "watery womb of Maya", material, from this material came bodies and places of living.

 
I have merely understood what is meant by sublte and gross - ਸੂਖਮ and ਅਸਥੂਲ.
And I tried to explain it in English.
 
PS
@dalsingh101Dude I am sharing spiritual concepts here.
You can't take everything I say as my interpretation and ignore it as such, otherwise you will entirely miss what I am actually sharing. You have to be attentive and alert, and be able extract what is relevant to you.

@paapiman
To be ether-like, to be space, is to be empty, is to be Nirankar.

Look Gunahgar got it -
This is it.
(It is a teaching for different levels of students as well.)

ਕਬੀਰ ਰੋੜਾ ਹੋਇ ਰਹੁ ਬਾਟ ਕਾ ਤਜਿ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥
Kabir says be a pebble and renounce your ahankar, your sense of self that is distinct from everyone else
ਐਸਾ ਕੋਈ ਦਾਸੁ ਹੋਇ ਤਾਹਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਭਗਵਾਨੁ ॥੧੪੬॥
If one becomes a servant without ahankar, then one will find Bhagwan.

Pebble is gross.

ਕਬੀਰ ਰੋੜਾ ਹੂਆ ਤ ਕਿਆ ਭਇਆ ਪੰਥੀ ਕਉ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੇਇ ॥
Kabir says, so what if you have become a pebble, so what? A pebble hurts the feet of travellers.
ਐਸਾ ਤੇਰਾ ਦਾਸੁ ਹੈ ਜਿਉ ਧਰਨੀ ਮਹਿ ਖੇਹ ॥੧੪੭॥
Your servant is like dust on the earth. (Dust does not hurt the feet of travellers)
Dust is gross but more subtle than pebble.

ਕਬੀਰ ਖੇਹ ਹੂਈ ਤਉ ਕਿਆ ਭਇਆ ਜਉ ਉਡਿ ਲਾਗੈ ਅੰਗ ॥
Kabir says, so what if you have become dust, so what? Dust flies and dirties the body.
ਹਰਿ ਜਨੁ ਐਸਾ ਚਾਹੀਐ ਜਿਉ ਪਾਨੀ ਸਰਬੰਗ ॥੧੪੮॥
The servant of Hari should be like water, which cleans the body.
Water is more subtle than dust.

ਕਬੀਰ ਪਾਨੀ ਹੂਆ ਤ ਕਿਆ ਭਇਆ ਸੀਰਾ ਤਾਤਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
Kabir says, so what if you have become water, so what? It becomes hot and cold.
ਹਰਿ ਜਨੁ ਐਸਾ ਚਾਹੀਐ ਜੈਸਾ ਹਰਿ ਹੀ ਹੋਇ ॥੧੪੯॥
The servant of Hari, shouldbe like Hari.
That is the follower of Hari should be as subtle as Hari.
 
The secret is Ustad Nar Singh ji Narayan.
I am an ant when it comes to gyan.

I say the same as Bhagat...  It depends on what happened and more than that you should try and recall with what your emotional state was in the dream and what were you thinking or wanting even?............You don't need to tell anyone but that's for you to contemplate on.
Nowadays, I do try and decipher the messages in my dream and to be honest, they are mostly about learning and self-development..   
Anyway, as per the other thread and on a diagnostic note........-->>have these nightmares coincided with the deeper sleep states from 5-HT? .......either way, more bhagti needs to be done is always the bottom line answer for deciphering nightmares. it's a need to better yourself.
 
 

@Sat1176
Brothers, the word "Har" has 500 meanings.
Some meanings are:
To steal To blossom Yellowish hue Without  Everyone Diamond Name of Vishnu jee Monkey  
Bhul chuk maaf

I can sense what she is feeling and why her emotions are high. This is SELF-REALISATION!  ....she has conquered her own "MOH" (attachment) to her guru.
SELF-REALISATION is about SELF and there is nothing selfish about it.....We are all here to LEARN our own lessons that are rooted in our baggage of karams.. "Karmi avai kapra" tells us that the the soul is dressed in this individual  skin/body/flesh in order to help "Sikh"(learn) the lessons of previous..
BhagatSingh,  as you mention that she is Sikh, .....I would probably go further to say that she has now become the 'true Sikh' after realising her own self potential in order to complete her journey. Her true "self-learning" and real sikhi will start now and the karmic bonds will begin to get broken. Gurbani mentions the bhandans breaking and that the gurukh realises that the relationships  and bonds were destined according to karams.
GURU takes and helps guide one to get from the darkness -->>light.  We have satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, that is the true living guru. ..When we go to to study advanced materials like physics or law, then we are shown the textbooks and materials that contain the teachings. However, in order to study these texts, we need to know how to read and understand what the written words mean ...(this is what all the earlier schooling and prepping is about) .    In the same way, a guide or master is very helpful for the prepping and guiding,  the discipline, rehat, the steps to get walking on the path etc.  because basically,....we have to "learn to crawl before we can learn to walk".   and the guide/master is the one that can help with getting us to that crawling.  The real sikhi is only done by Self, and that is when we really start the walking.
 
After watching the video, I was a little disappointed to hear the crowd laughing at the woman as if her emotions were wrong or she was somehow loopy! ... .. I don't know about anyone else, but I genuinely felt nothing but joy and affection to her experience and can't understand why someone would laugh at someone directly with such ignorance.
 

As this topic is quiet sensitive, especially for uk sikhs, i was contemplating whether or not to reply to this thread. But i feel the need to as in another thread i have given a bravado speech which may arouse some sikhs, more so the youth. I stick by what i said before and still say pappu sikhs need to man up, like really need to grow a pair..
Here's the big but....Though this grooming shit is real and spreading like a disease there are many cases where girls are f**kin with paki boys and when girls parents find out they play the grooming card..and blackmail card..watch out for these tricks..
so just a heads up for anyone with josh wanting to take seva of fighting this thing, as in my experience, the biggest culprits in this game is our own sikh community. So just use your head and not end up like these leicester boys who got sent down and when they come out cannot get a job because of their criminal record.. F**k the sikh community even the girls family who you protected aint gonna help you.. i know many singhs who got sent down for helping out and no one gave a sh1t ...
hosh before josh...Be wise people...rabb rakha

Yes, a dumb/guunga/mute makes this sound from the back of the mouth.
Most definitely helps with vibrating energy in  all inner organs, that will help promote overall well-being.
 
We practice it in this very manner in yoga class.
The yogi bhajhan info posted by das explains it well. We actually call it "tuning in" when the whole class does the ong and we chant Ong namo, guru dev namo,  In kundalini yoga they call it the Adi mantra/primal mantra. ....and like Bhagat said above, it is the primal sound,... the begning , the Aad.
Just to add, I can say that when the whole class does it together, you really feel the vibration and it's power. The energy from the resonance is so strong that after I'm tuned in, I can elongate my breath for so long holding a single not like an opera singer!  ... and seriously, I'm no real singer at all and neither can I hold notes with raags for too long.   This physical vocal affect ONLY happens in class, because when I try it by myself at home, it's nowhere near the same.
I do reckon that in terms of the science of the ong vibration, it has a direct stimulation going vertically upwards to your pineal gland and into the center of our mind's universe, ..the cave of brahma,,,..seat of the soul.
 
 
 
Interesting what you mention about the right side ear because this side and also the right eye is associated with Solar enrgy and the sun. A number of gurbani references are made to this. However, there is also another yogic moon and sun association and that is shown in diagram as behind the bindu and with the lunar on the anterior. Moon-Sun energy is also labelled as Yin-Yang, Shiv-Shakti, cooling-warming, ...etc.

Yes, a dumb/guunga/mute makes this sound from the back of the mouth.
Most definitely helps with vibrating energy in  all inner organs, that will help promote overall well-being.
 
We practice it in this very manner in yoga class.
The yogi bhajhan info posted by das explains it well. We actually call it "tuning in" when the whole class does the ong and we chant Ong namo, guru dev namo,  In kundalini yoga they call it the Adi mantra/primal mantra. ....and like Bhagat said above, it is the primal sound,... the begning , the Aad.
Just to add, I can say that when the whole class does it together, you really feel the vibration and it's power. The energy from the resonance is so strong that after I'm tuned in, I can elongate my breath for so long holding a single not like an opera singer!  ... and seriously, I'm no real singer at all and neither can I hold notes with raags for too long.   This physical vocal affect ONLY happens in class, because when I try it by myself at home, it's nowhere near the same.
I do reckon that in terms of the science of the ong vibration, it has a direct stimulation going vertically upwards to your pineal gland and into the center of our mind's universe, ..the cave of brahma,,,..seat of the soul.
 
 
 
Interesting what you mention about the right side ear because this side and also the right eye is associated with Solar enrgy and the sun. A number of gurbani references are made to this. However, there is also another yogic moon and sun association and that is shown in diagram as behind the bindu and with the lunar on the anterior. Moon-Sun energy is also labelled as Yin-Yang, Shiv-Shakti, cooling-warming, ...etc.

Yes, a dumb/guunga/mute makes this sound from the back of the mouth.
Most definitely helps with vibrating energy in  all inner organs, that will help promote overall well-being.
 
We practice it in this very manner in yoga class.
The yogi bhajhan info posted by das explains it well. We actually call it "tuning in" when the whole class does the ong and we chant Ong namo, guru dev namo,  In kundalini yoga they call it the Adi mantra/primal mantra. ....and like Bhagat said above, it is the primal sound,... the begning , the Aad.
Just to add, I can say that when the whole class does it together, you really feel the vibration and it's power. The energy from the resonance is so strong that after I'm tuned in, I can elongate my breath for so long holding a single not like an opera singer!  ... and seriously, I'm no real singer at all and neither can I hold notes with raags for too long.   This physical vocal affect ONLY happens in class, because when I try it by myself at home, it's nowhere near the same.
I do reckon that in terms of the science of the ong vibration, it has a direct stimulation going vertically upwards to your pineal gland and into the center of our mind's universe, ..the cave of brahma,,,..seat of the soul.
 
 
 
Interesting what you mention about the right side ear because this side and also the right eye is associated with Solar enrgy and the sun. A number of gurbani references are made to this. However, there is also another yogic moon and sun association and that is shown in diagram as behind the bindu and with the lunar on the anterior. Moon-Sun energy is also labelled as Yin-Yang, Shiv-Shakti, cooling-warming, ...etc.

Yes, a dumb/guunga/mute makes this sound from the back of the mouth.
Most definitely helps with vibrating energy in  all inner organs, that will help promote overall well-being.
 
We practice it in this very manner in yoga class.
The yogi bhajhan info posted by das explains it well. We actually call it "tuning in" when the whole class does the ong and we chant Ong namo, guru dev namo,  In kundalini yoga they call it the Adi mantra/primal mantra. ....and like Bhagat said above, it is the primal sound,... the begning , the Aad.
Just to add, I can say that when the whole class does it together, you really feel the vibration and it's power. The energy from the resonance is so strong that after I'm tuned in, I can elongate my breath for so long holding a single not like an opera singer!  ... and seriously, I'm no real singer at all and neither can I hold notes with raags for too long.   This physical vocal affect ONLY happens in class, because when I try it by myself at home, it's nowhere near the same.
I do reckon that in terms of the science of the ong vibration, it has a direct stimulation going vertically upwards to your pineal gland and into the center of our mind's universe, ..the cave of brahma,,,..seat of the soul.
 
 
 
Interesting what you mention about the right side ear because this side and also the right eye is associated with Solar enrgy and the sun. A number of gurbani references are made to this. However, there is also another yogic moon and sun association and that is shown in diagram as behind the bindu and with the lunar on the anterior. Moon-Sun energy is also labelled as Yin-Yang, Shiv-Shakti, cooling-warming, ...etc.