Confused

[mit]

Good day all!

I went to the gurudwara last night and was doing seva, cleaning up/brooming the floor and there was a giani there who i approached and asked for some Pashaad to take home for my family. Quite abruptly he said that im not a sikh if i havnt had amrit. I said to the giani that, i may not have had amrit, but i consider myself a child of the khalsa. He then went on about how the youth are going away from sikhi. i said to the the giani, who was very abrupt, that im not intereseted in the politics. I said to the giani that, i may cut my beard, but i get up in the morning and do my Japji Sahib, sukhmani sahib and shabaad hazaaray. the giani was stunned for some reason. Was he correct in saying that my prayers to god will not be answered if i dont take amrit. also, i questioned the giani (Please people do not take me wrong) the Guru's from Guru Nanak Dev Ji to sri guru tegh Bahadur Ji had not taken amrit, does that make them non-devotees of god? He gave me no reply and didnt say any thing. please can you shed some light on this please. Again, i dont mean to offend anyone.

[shaheediyan]

What makes you think that the Guru's didn't take amrit?

I think it's a bit silly of you to use Guru Sahiban as a comparator.

Re the rest, it's your own understanding of how you see the term Khalsa.

Although it's fair to note the Panth do use this term for Amritdhari today - and historic references to maryada (applicable to Amritdhari) refer to the Khalsa. Guru Gobind Singh Ji's hukumnama use the term more universally as does Bhagat Kabir Ji.

God has no dharam, of course he will answer your prayers.

But Guru Ji has given us a system to attain moksha - and taking Khande de Pahul and living in Rehit certainly helps and provides a strong foundation for this path to liberation.

[mit]

sorry, my bad. i honestly didnt mean to offend anyone. please forgive me if i have.

[Mithr]

Mit, don't listen to that Giani. He obviously has very little sense to begin with. He had no right to act like he did with you. Only fortunate people get to do seva at a Gurdwara. So many billions of people never even get to enter a Gurdwara in their life time. When I had not taken amrit I also had a similar experience, but I just ignored it thinking maybe I must have done something in a previous life to him because of which I had to see this today. Sikhs do not keep Vair-Virodh for anyone. We need to feel compassion even for the worst of villains.

You have a very impressive Nitnem. Keep up the great work man. Even most Amritdharis do not do as much paath as you do. By doing Paath and doing Seva at a Gurdwara, you are literally cleaning Janam-Janam dhi Mail from your mann.

Also, I just want to add that before the 1699, Sikhs did have a Amrit ceremony. It was called Charan Amrit. The Tenth master turned it into Khanday Dha Amrit.

[chatanga1]

mit may i suggest something? plz hold you physical rehat(bana) in equilibrium with your spritiualk rehat(bani). Bana and Bani go together and in Suraj Parkash it is written thatthey are the 2 wings that make a sikh ascend to sachkhand.

my only advice is that as you are "pakka" in your bani recitation, plz be just as "pakka" when it comes to keeping your kes and darra intact.

[Xylitol]

In Bhai Gurdas ji's Vaars, he writes that Amrit is an absolute must. I don't recall which vaar. There were more than one stanza dealing with this. I suggest you read through for yourself.

[amardeep]

Dont listen to that Giyani. As has been stated on this site, God does not belong to a single dharam, and therefore people of all religions backgrounds etc will have their prayers answered.

[Pheena]

The Guru asked for 5 heads, the Guru did not force anyone to give their head. Live your life with Love in your heart for the Guru and pray that your Love and your Thirst to seek God grows. Every seed has a moment when it erupts into a flower, time spent in the ground is essential to the roots of the tree.

We can take Amrit and call ourselves Sikhs of the Guru, but we only become Sikhs when the relationship of Love takes birth between a Master and his Sikh.

It is your resolve to first surrender and your passion to seek out God that is the multiplier, it is your thirst for God which provides the Spark in Amrit. Without cultivating such attributes what good can Amrit do for you which you fail to do for yourself?

[Xylitol]

"It is your resolve to first surrender and your passion to seek out God that is the multiplier, it is your thirst for God which provides the Spark in Amrit. Without cultivating such attributes what good can Amrit do for you which you fail to do for yourself?"

excellent post ji. But Amrit still provides benefit even to those lacking that surrender which they are supposed to have. It is what links you to the Guru, it makes you the Gurus property.

[Pheena]

"It is your resolve to first surrender and your passion to seek out God that is the multiplier, it is your thirst for God which provides the Spark in Amrit. Without cultivating such attributes what good can Amrit do for you which you fail to do for yourself?"

excellent post ji. But Amrit still provides benefit even to those lacking that surrender which they are supposed to have. It is what links you to the Guru, it makes you the Gurus property.

If such is your experience then I am no one to doubt it and You are probably correct that it provides benefit. Personally i do not believe in taking Amrit for the sake of taking Amrit so I can be called a Sikh because a Granthi feels I'm not one. That is his view, perhaps where there should be humility in his eyes there exists arrogance OR perhaps he is so passionate about the Love that he feels for his Guru that he wants everyone to be a Sikh like him.

The cultivation of your heart is essential so that when Amrit does rain, you have planted your seeds of Love and Surrender so they can sprout.

[Mithr]

You make a good point Pheena. Although Amrit is a must. But i think that an Amridhari MUST have some qualities within him such as compassion(Dhaya) and complete surrender to Parmatma. Ideally an amritdhari Sikh should FEEL and not just ACT like the dust of everyone's feet. We need to feel enough compassion for every living being to know that Vaheguru resides even within them. Knowing that fact, they are still walking the worldly path(padharth) instead of the Godly path(Parmarth).

When we talk to someone about Sikhi it should be with compassion and understanding. We should never speak with the 'holier than thou' attitude or have any arrogant tone of voice. Even if we know that we are right and the other person is not, we need to speak with humility and compassion.

[SAadmin]

Mithr,

sorry just wanted to point out line in the post.. "Even if we know that we are right and the other person is not," contradicts with not having "holier than thou" attitude...it just seems contradictory correct me if i m wrong please?

[Mithr]

Mithr,

sorry just wanted to point out line in the post.. "Even if we know that we are right and the other person is not," contradicts with not having "holier than thou" attitude...it just seems contradictory correct me if i m wrong please?

What I mean by that is, sometimes we know for certain that someone is not doing something right, but what alot of Amritdharis do is that they start to get right at their face telling them (often rudely) that they are wrong, without any humility or sympathy for the other person. In my opinion we as Sikhs should have compassion for everyone and every living being. When we want to talk to someone about Sikhi, it should be with the utmost humility. When Sant Ishar Singh Ji Raraywalay talks about Gurmat, he always talks with so much humility and sweetness.

[ipledgeblue]

Good day all!

I went to the gurudwara last night and was doing seva, cleaning up/brooming the floor and there was a giani there who i approached and asked for some Pashaad to take home for my family. Quite abruptly he said that im not a sikh if i havnt had amrit. I said to the giani that, i may not have had amrit, but i consider myself a child of the khalsa. He then went on about how the youth are going away from sikhi. i said to the the giani, who was very abrupt, that im not intereseted in the politics. I said to the giani that, i may cut my beard, but i get up in the morning and do my Japji Sahib, sukhmani sahib and shabaad hazaaray. the giani was stunned for some reason. Was he correct in saying that my prayers to god will not be answered if i dont take amrit. also, i questioned the giani (Please people do not take me wrong) the Guru's from Guru Nanak Dev Ji to sri guru tegh Bahadur Ji had not taken amrit, does that make them non-devotees of god? He gave me no reply and didnt say any thing. please can you shed some light on this please. Again, i dont mean to offend anyone.

Damn that is the same kattar/extremist stuff are teaching at BOSS uni sikh societies these days. There are gurdwareh with these views? :x

[SAadmin]

Damn that is the same kattar/extremist stuff are teaching at BOSS uni sikh societies these days. There are gurdwareh with these views? :x

londonjatt, do you have source or references of your claim boss uni sikh societies teaches extermisim within sikh panth??

[ipledgeblue]

londonjatt, do you have source or references of your claim boss uni sikh societies teaches extermisim within sikh panth??

only the stuff some people teach at sikh society meetings I have attended

[Matheen]

only the stuff some people teach at sikh society meetings I have attended

What exactly did they teach that was 'extremist'?

[jassasingh]

it depends on your target ... u want swarag narak ... it depends on karams not bhakti ... if u want mukti it depends on bhakti only and equal and open for all religions ..

but if u want smeep mukti in charana kamal of guru sahib at sachkhand then for that amrit in must as guru gobind singh ji told to dall singh who asked for peedhi jinni space in dargha in hazzori of guru sahib but guru sahib replyed forget peedhi u want even get space equal to a needle ... if u take amrit then u can even have a space equal to a manji ...

human body is given god gave us from very first day to last day of our life for preparation ... exam would happen in dargha and result would be out ... some are happy just with 50 % marks some want 90 % ...

it all depends on target and managment how we want to fullfill it ...

and most imp it depends on guru gobind singh ... its not our will we want to take amrit or not ... its his will he want to bless us with amrit or not ... keep doing path and if guru sahib wants he will show you his kalla and u will yourself search for khande batte di paul ...

[ipledgeblue]

What exactly did they teach that was 'extremist'?

stuff like:

"Quite abruptly he said that im not a sikh if i havnt had amrit."

"my prayers to god will not be answered if i dont take amrit. "

[Matheen]

stuff like:

"Quite abruptly he said that im not a sikh if i havnt had amrit."

"my prayers to god will not be answered if i dont take amrit. "

You heard the same things at a Sikh Society meeting?

As regards taking Amrit - every Guru (Sikh or otherwise) has an initation where the initiate pledges his/her dedication to the path and becomes a sikh of that guru. So, in a way , it is correct to say we become Sikhs of Guru Sahib once we give our heads and receive Amrit.

The thing about prayers is ridiculous - I'd be very surprised if anyone at a Sikhsociety event, BOSS or otherwise, said this to you.

[Silence]

anyway, while those points may be outside of "mainstream", "popular" "politicall correctness", they hardly promote extremism.

If anything your reaction is a little extreme

great post jassasingh, wonderful perspective, I havent read it from this angle before, beautiful

[Maha Kharag Singh]

Some people should really think before they speak. Today is the age where if someone older than you tries to assert some authority on you out of maan that he or she is your uncle/aunty/bibi/baba not by blood relation but just because you both are in the Gurudwara by coincidence on the same day and time and the fact that they are older than you. The youngster tells them to f*** off.

Today as they would say it isnt the jamana whereby you could go up to anyone and give them chaar shitthar just on the basis of "I am older jhu listen to me i am right jhu are wrong becoz i am jhur elder" (N.B read the quoted text in a freshi accent)

Therefore the way parchaar is done today has to be done on the youngsters level. Clearly the idiot gyani had no gyan because instead of Brother Mit goin AKAAL! Im keepin my beard, he ended up comming to this website and starting a thread and naming it as "Confused"

Mit, from my prespective of Sikhi here are my two cents or pennies LOL

You say you do baani etc, something that is commendable. Some people on this foru would say "whats the point in doing paath if you dont have the exterior" One question arrises, whats the point in keeping the appearance if you dont have the bani.

From the way I see it, you probably have immense pleasure out of reading Gurbani which is an excellent thing, but to magnify that pleasure you need to submit.

Allot of us do the paath or keep the bana, but that doesnt mean that we have completly submitted ourselves to our Guru. So heres a question if submission is the only way to follow the Guru and be one with the Guru, how can we judge anyone by their appearance or the level of their commitment when we ourselves havent submitted to our Guru?

Mit, you dont need any of us to tell you what to do or how to dress, when you do your baani, and you throw yourself into it, the answers will unravell. Think of it this way, have you ever watched stargate? Well on there, there is a gate which takes you into a whole different dimention. Most if not all of us sit on the edge of that gate and see glimpses of the other side, and like fools we make assumptions about what those glimpses are and we argue with each other trying to prove that my perception is right and yours is wrong. When the only way to find out is to go through the gate, but to do that you need strenght and courage because when you look through the gate it looks really scary. You assume that by going through the gate, your clothes will change and youl get a tan or something like that and you worry that what if my clothes dont look good to other people and if ill look like a dork. But you dont know that untill you cross over through the gate.

When you go through the gate and experience the full blast of Gurbani you will see feel certainty and you will know what to do, not like us who are in uncertainty hence why we question and argue.

Go through the gate, and let us fools wrangle over whats right and wrong, and then if you have mercy take one of us with you.

[yours]

Both are fools, gyani and you...

Why u?

If you are true to ur sewa as you say u are then u didnt have to react to that gyani in the first place. If you had walked away from the situation without thinking anything about it then "NEW Door" would have opened within you. But no! u had to react to his stupid talk. If you simply had responded with nothing you would have brought home real Parshad that was meant for you. This parshad would have remained within you for forever...

[Xylitol]

it depends on your target ... u want swarag narak ... it depends on karams not bhakti ... if u want mukti it depends on bhakti only and equal and open for all religions ..

but if u want smeep mukti in charana kamal of guru sahib at sachkhand then for that amrit in must as guru gobind singh ji told to dall singh who asked for peedhi jinni space in dargha in hazzori of guru sahib but guru sahib replyed forget peedhi u want even get space equal to a needle ... if u take amrit then u can even have a space equal to a manji ...

human body is given god gave us from very first day to last day of our life for preparation ... exam would happen in dargha and result would be out ... some are happy just with 50 % marks some want 90 % ...

it all depends on target and managment how we want to fullfill it ...

and most imp it depends on guru gobind singh ... its not our will we want to take amrit or not ... its his will he want to bless us with amrit or not ... keep doing path and if guru sahib wants he will show you his kalla and u will yourself search for khande batte di paul ...

[unbreakable]

..